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Root **Official** Droid X encrypted bootloader and efuse thread

From what I can tell they are doing what we did with the Evo at first since it was also locked (not encrypted though). Loading a custom recovery temporarily through adb and flashing the ROM. It works but it's dirty and you still can't make any changes yourself to /system. You also need a PC with adb whenever you want to change ROM's.
 
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but since the hackers/devs have gone through this before, once they get their hands on an X, won't they learn very quickly the status of the bootloader? Or does every phone situation take different steps that they cannot anticipate?

If not, I'm surprised someone hasn't already found this out, or at least rooted it yet.

Is there a forum dedicated to this stuff? I know many forums have threads like this, but is there one where all these devs hang out and plan stuff out for us to see? I doubt it, but maybe something like that??
 
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I would think someone might have found out by now whether it's locked or not but I haven't seen anything to prove it true or false. Rooting it could be fast or could be slow, the Evo was only rooted so quickly because all the Google I/O attendees got them for free so of course having all the top devs helped it happen quickly. You should start to see more devs discussing the X once it comes out, not sure on a central hang out for them though.
 
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Alright, I am a newbie (the X will be my first Android) but isn't this a great sign? It doesn't seem too hard to do after watching the video for the Milestone. It seems to me that if it can be done on that phone then why not on the X....someday anyways.

Is there any good reason why this isn't good enough as far as loading custom a rom??? If so please explain why?
 
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I'd like to start off by saying I've been following the Droid X and every piece of information I could dig up on it for a while now. I have one pre-ordered at Best Buy and am quite excited for it.

However, I think that after a ton of research it seems to me that as far as Motorola is concerned, only allowing Motorola signed ROMs is not only acceptable, but has been their business practice on every phone release other than the DROID for many years. As quoted from Lori Fraleigh, the manager of the technical team behind the MOTODEV program at Motorola:

Securing the software on our handsets, thereby preventing a non-Motorola ROM image from being loaded, has been our common practice for many years. This practice is driven by a number of different business factors. When we do deviate from our normal practice, such as we did with the DROID, there is a specific business reason for doing so. We understand this can result in some confusion, and apologize for any frustration.

Quote taken from Custom ROMs and Motorola's Android Handsets - MOTODEV Discussion Boards

{I'd like to also note that this has already been quoted in the thread before, and I'm not trying to take credit for finding it - thanks to whoever put in the research effort to find this - I just felt it was useful to reiterate for my post specifically}

The question that a statement like this brings up in my mind is not one so much concerned about the Droid X and what can be done about it, but about Motorola's fit with the Android OS and community. Perhaps this is not so much of an issue with the Droid X itself, but rather, Motorola confirming that their business practices really do not fit in well with the open development principles that Android has stood for.

If this is Motorola's trend, and they truly do instate encrypted bootloaders that will only run ROMs that have been digitally signed by them on all of their phones in the future, then in my eyes they are handing the reigns over to other manufacturers like HTC and Samsung. I think they will continue to release "state of the art", beautiful devices - like the Droid X - but without the software - or the availability of software - to back those devices up, I'm not sure they going to be able maintain a competitive position in the market for Android devices. While I'm excited for my X to come in, part of me is curious if I should pick up an Incredible to hold onto for a potential day when ROMs of Gingerbread or beyond are available for HTC phones and no longer usable on Motorola ones.

I whole-heartedly agree with kwest12 in his post about being a "vocal minority" and the importance of expressing our discontent to Motorola.
Read his post here
While this whole situation makes me doubt Motorola's commitment to the openness that Android is supposed to represent, it absolutely cannot hurt to spread the word about the limits Motorola claims as their "common practice for many years" and our issues with it.

However, the fact Motorola's response to the outcry from European customers over the Milestone's inability to flash user-created ROMs was for those customers to purchase developer devices from Google or HTC reassures me that Motorola is apparently not afraid to lose customers over this (I wonder how Verizon feels about that statement). Hopefully Motorola is underestimating the interest in and value of their current/potential customers who consider having this freedom an important factor in their smart phone purchasing decision, and that this underestimation can be brought to their attention before they give away all of the customers that saved their company (if you don't know about their past, just Google "how Android saved Motorola").

I think it's an important point to note that it is the serious Android enthusiasts (those who are most likely to be running other ROMs) that will stick with their Motorola Android-based device when the rest of the public moves onto the next hot thing. I think we are worth quite a bit more than Motorola seems to think we are.

-Matt
 
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That was a awesome post, even more so that it's your first.

@genxgeek while this method should work for loading custom ROM's it doesn't give users any real freedom. We won't have the ability to run custom kernels which would allow for overclocking (which we might not need) but underclocking and low voltage kernels are something we might want to help with battery life. That is just one thing that comes to mind, there are many more. Removing bloatware apps or themeing won't be doable without full access either meaning you need to flash a new ROM every time you want to remove a app in /system or make some changes to the theme.

If the bootloader is fully locked and encrypted and it can't be cracked I am almost certain the top dev's will want nothing to do with the DX. Hopefully I'm wrong though.
 
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I've been waiting for this phone for a long time and if the bootloader is locked, I won't buy it. This is unacceptable from Moto and once the word spreads, this will snowball. I think that the techies that buy Android phones are not a majority; as has been previously posted, we are the ones that endorse (or invalidate) phones for our non-techie friends, families etc. I hope Moto sees the light on this issue cause I really want this phone. :0(

Also, it appears the HDMI port is not completely "open." If that's true, it's also very worrying.
 
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If those guys do find out that it's fully encrypted and we can never load custom roms, or similarly, they can't even root it, then I might exchange the phone within the 30 days for the Incredible.
It just sucks that I'd have to be going to supposedly bad battery life and call quality...ugh there really is no win here huh. The X really does sound great stock, it's a real shame that it might be a half-assed Android experience in the end with it though.

And there's the problem of not being able to even buy an Incredible right now. Within 30 days after the release of the X, will they be easily available to buy at VZW? And will all new ones have only LCD screens? Won't that mean the usual awesome look of the Incredible screen will be no more with new models???..which means another downside to getting that phone.
 
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and while I believe I should be able to do whatever once I purchase a phone, this will go nowhere, Motorola only speaks 1 language, cold hard cash. Until selling encrypted phones starts to impact the bottom line, Motorola will encrypt plain and simple. You know what? It's our fault as consumers for allowing things like this to occur, the X will be a hit regardless of how much our relatively small community complains because the average consumer is completely oblivious to why this is an issue. Apple has proven this time and time again, now Windows Mobile 7 will be following suit and it looks like Android will soon come along for the ride.

A boycott of the product would certainly get the attention of Motorola and perhaps other manufacturers in the process, but face it, how many of us who really want or need an upgrade are going to pass over the X because of this? My guess would be less than a thousand US buyers at best and their reason for doing so will never get any kind of mainstream attention.

The Milestone situation resulted in hundreds of posts on the Motorola blog and other places, it didn't do any good because there were simply not enough people who cared. I have a good friend in the UK and when I asked him how he felt, he was completely clueless as to why this was a problem, his phone works, he is good.

We know this might be coming for the Droid X but still won't mobilize and at least TRY to deal with the problem BEFORE the phone is released. We'll get what we get, business as usual. Personally, I'll get the phone, and if I find myself limited, I'll return it because really that's all I can do. If people really wanted to make an impact, Engadget and every other major tech blog would be posting hour by hour about the groundswell and the impending boycott of the Droid X unless Motorola give us the option of doing what we want with equipment we buy. Sadly, it won't happen.

I've spent quite a bit of time in the UK and find it kind of ironic how in the UK, the government & corporations are terrified of people mobilizing or protesting while in the land of the free, they could care less. They know we won't complain but so much because we have to get back to work or back to the mall to buy more stuff.

Sorry for my probably incoherent rant, and I know many will disagree, but I don't believe we REALLY care about an encrypted bootloader. We think the hackers & devs will save us once again, but cracking strong encryption is a whole new ballgame and not many people do it for fun, it's generally done for profit. Welcome to the new Android reality, like most things we did it to ourselves by saying nothing when it could have mattered........
 
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While I agree with you on most of your points stone, I'll disagree that we arn't doing anything about it. I've sent a few e-mails to reviewers, left posts and other things highlighting the issue. I also sent an e-mail telling moto why i would be passing on their device unless they changed their policy. (i'll probably get the phone and return it after 30 days if i cant live with it or the galaxy s looks good) There are plenty of people who are being pretty vocal about the issue and who knows, moto might hear us.
 
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If those guys do find out that it's fully encrypted and we can never load custom roms, or similarly, they can't even root it, then I might exchange the phone within the 30 days for the Incredible.
It just sucks that I'd have to be going to supposedly bad battery life and call quality...ugh there really is no win here huh. The X really does sound great stock, it's a real shame that it might be a half-assed Android experience in the end with it though.

And there's the problem of not being able to even buy an Incredible right now. Within 30 days after the release of the X, will they be easily available to buy at VZW? And will all new ones have only LCD screens? Won't that mean the usual awesome look of the Incredible screen will be no more with new models???..which means another downside to getting that phone.

I am thinking along the same lines....except maybe the galaxy S will be my backup option. Hopefully we will know more about it before August 15.
 
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What you are not seeing is that the people who care make up only a small percentage of the people who buy. Most people who buy are ordinary folks who could care less about all this "technical" mumbo jumbo. That is one reason why the iphone does so well even though it is so locked down - the majority of consumers only use it for the most basic functions. Honestly, from a business perspective, i wouldn't care either if i was motorola about what we, the people who are on these forums, want. It'd be more concerned what Verizon, a business partner, wants.

and while I believe I should be able to do whatever once I purchase a phone, this will go nowhere, Motorola only speaks 1 language, cold hard cash. Until selling encrypted phones starts to impact the bottom line, Motorola will encrypt plain and simple. You know what? It's our fault as consumers for allowing things like this to occur, the X will be a hit regardless of how much our relatively small community complains because the average consumer is completely oblivious to why this is an issue. Apple has proven this time and time again, now Windows Mobile 7 will be following suit and it looks like Android will soon come along for the ride.

A boycott of the product would certainly get the attention of Motorola and perhaps other manufacturers in the process, but face it, how many of us who really want or need an upgrade are going to pass over the X because of this? My guess would be less than a thousand US buyers at best and their reason for doing so will never get any kind of mainstream attention.

The Milestone situation resulted in hundreds of posts on the Motorola blog and other places, it didn't do any good because there were simply not enough people who cared. I have a good friend in the UK and when I asked him how he felt, he was completely clueless as to why this was a problem, his phone works, he is good.

We know this might be coming for the Droid X but still won't mobilize and at least TRY to deal with the problem BEFORE the phone is released. We'll get what we get, business as usual. Personally, I'll get the phone, and if I find myself limited, I'll return it because really that's all I can do. If people really wanted to make an impact, Engadget and every other major tech blog would be posting hour by hour about the groundswell and the impending boycott of the Droid X unless Motorola give us the option of doing what we want with equipment we buy. Sadly, it won't happen.

I've spent quite a bit of time in the UK and find it kind of ironic how in the UK, the government & corporations are terrified of people mobilizing or protesting while in the land of the free, they could care less. They know we won't complain but so much because we have to get back to work or back to the mall to buy more stuff.

Sorry for my probably incoherent rant, and I know many will disagree, but I don't believe we REALLY care about an encrypted bootloader. We think the hackers & devs will save us once again, but cracking strong encryption is a whole new ballgame and not many people do it for fun, it's generally done for profit. Welcome to the new Android reality, like most things we did it to ourselves by saying nothing when it could have mattered........


Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
 
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What you are not seeing is that the people who care make up only a small percentage of the people who buy. Most people who buy are ordinary folks who could care less about all this "technical" mumbo jumbo. That is one reason why the iphone does so well even though it is so locked down - the majority of consumers only use it for the most basic functions. Honestly, from a business perspective, i wouldn't care either if i was motorola about what we, the people who are on these forums, want. It'd be more concerned what Verizon, a business partner, wants.

In a roundabout way, that's part of what I was trying to say. Working on the Executive side of my Consulting firm, I know 1st hand that Motorola could care less about those of us curious about our technology or what Android is all about, it's about volume and putting up big sales numbers which allows for the creation of the next phone we'll all rush out to get.

I'm a bit older than most here and seeing the progression of technology over the years and how it's becoming more and more locked down, I've grown to be quite cynical about these things and occasionally I get on my soapbox hence my previous post. Bottom line, if the Droid X sells in large numbers which it more than likely will, our issue is a non-issue. That's why I said the only thing that would get their attention would be a boycott or some major publicity BEFORE the device launches, neither of which is going to happen.

I think we agree......
 
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So everyone knows how locked down Apple is. But they jailbreak the phone. The Dinc was difficult and from what I read most people were mainly upset that it wasn't right away. instant gratification....

I just think that if the phone is a popular as everyone anticipates someone will find a way. Such as rooting the tesla milestone. And being able to overclock the milestone -

[APP] milestone-overclock (requires root) - xda-developers

With time and patience one can achieve anything. I think there will be ways around to do just about anything we want. That being said, as quickly as new tech is coming out, half of the people will probably move onto the next bbt anyway.

I get if people dont like motorola for doing this to their products. I get being disappointed and not wanting to buy the phone. So dont, and quit reposting useless dribble over and over. I spent 5 minutes reading the facinate forum, realized its not for me and moved on. No post, and havent gone back.

Personally I come to these forums to learn. But this... this is just ranting and unproductive. Flame as you will.
 
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That was a awesome post, even more so that it's your first.

@genxgeek while this method should work for loading custom ROM's it doesn't give users any real freedom. We won't have the ability to run custom kernels which would allow for overclocking (which we might not need) but underclocking and low voltage kernels are something we might want to help with battery life. That is just one thing that comes to mind, there are many more. Removing bloatware apps or themeing won't be doable without full access either meaning you need to flash a new ROM every time you want to remove a app in /system or make some changes to the theme.

If the bootloader is fully locked and encrypted and it can't be cracked I am almost certain the top dev's will want nothing to do with the DX. Hopefully I'm wrong though.

Id think that as long as its popular it will be just enjoyed as an extreme challenge. I cant imagine Dev's do this because its easy. Or am I just being too optimistic?
 
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If the Bootloader is signed, you're probably all SOL when it comes to custom ROMs. Kexec isn't working on the Milestone (see and-developers), and the bootloader is so heavily encrypted that even a sizable server farm would need years to crack it.

Personally, I'm never buying another Motorola device, because of the bootloader on the Milestone. We have absolutely no guarantee that we won't be stuck on 2.2 from after the next update, because we won't be able to upgrade to new Android versions manually when they arrive - when Motorola decides the Milestone's reached EndOfLife status (any day now...), we're screwed. No 2.3 or 3.0 for us, while even G1 and Magic users will be getting the newest updates...
 
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If the Bootloader is signed, you're probably all SOL when it comes to custom ROMs. Kexec isn't working on the Milestone (see and-developers), and the bootloader is so heavily encrypted that even a sizable server farm would need years to crack it.

Personally, I'm never buying another Motorola device, because of the bootloader on the Milestone. We have absolutely no guarantee that we won't be stuck on 2.2 from after the next update, because we won't be able to upgrade to new Android versions manually when they arrive - when Motorola decides the Milestone's reached EndOfLife status (any day now...), we're screwed. No 2.3 or 3.0 for us, while even G1 and Magic users will be getting the newest updates...

You seem to be assuming a lot.
 
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