Our (not so) Great president.


  1. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants Moderator

    (This is a read, but something that is worth your time, if you are an American, and maybe even if your not)


    Recently I just read the NextElect app post, and to keep that thread clean, I am making this one. Try not to flame, and keep it intelligent. Everyone is entitled to thier opinion, and everyone is also entitled to disagree.

    So, anyway. Let's start with our previous president Mr. GWB. Alot of people blame him for the economy problems yada yada. The finger needs to be pointed at Bill Clinton. For it is he and his administration that caused this economic failure. How do you ask? Through his "everyone should own a home" policies, he stronghanded banks into giving loans to people who shouldn't have gotten them in the first place. I know someone who 5 years ago got a 200k home loan making 7/hr with no down payment. Plain stupid. And it is exactly that, that made the economy collapse. With all these people buying homes and couldn't really afford them caused an artificial increase in demand, resulting in an artificial boom and price increase on homes, that were only really worth a fraction of what was paid. Now what happens when all these people, cant afford to make thier payments? Well the housing market gets oversaturated and the market plummits. Thats exactly what happened.

    Now how the banks failed:

    What happens when you loan out billions of dollars for properties that are only worth millions? And what happens when the consumers stop sending in checks for those loans? Simple right? You foreclose, sell the house and get your money back. Easy. Not really. The house they loaned 400k for is now only worth 180k, so the banks lose thier hats foreclosing, plus no-one is buying the houses, and there is a supply to demand ratio that makes real estate agents cringe. So now the bank is stuck with properties they cant sell, AND have to pay taxes on. The banks collapse. The banks you see buying up other banks were the few who didn't succomb to the Clinton administration and were smart about who they lent money too. They are in great shape.

    Why the banks failures and housing market crash killed the economy:

    People get scared easy. When they saw this happening, people lined up to pull their money out of banks and investments causing more bank failure and the stock market to plummit. Its a huge snowball affect. With companies losing money, and people holding on to their money more tightly, companies need to make cutbacks to stay alive, so here come the layoffs. Less circulation leads to more of the same. Now people are out of jobs, all because of Bill Clinton and his administration, allowing people who cannot afford homes buy them.

    Summary:

    This is undeniable fact. It cannot be disputed. Don't even try, it's like arguing with gravity. GWB in fact did not have anything to do with the economy collapse, it was all Bill Clinton and his team.

    Why I don't like Barack Obama, his policies, and the democratic party in general:

    In Baracks first 100 days, he spent more than GWB did his entire time in office. He doubled the welfare payout, enabling lazy drains of society to sit at home, be non-productive, and collect money. Now I may or may not receive alot of flaming for this, but hear me out. I can't stand lazy people. I cannot stand freeloaders. Like it or not, we live in a capitalist society, and I wouldnt have it any other way. People should not live for free. Like it or not, medical care is not a right. It is a privilege. Doctors go to school for more than a quarter of their lives, and take on hundreds of thousands of dollars in loans. They devote their lives to it, and they deserve the payout in the end. It is said doctors don't really begin to profit from their profession until in their mid 40's. Wow. Free healthcare would ruin that, as the government cannot afford to pay everyones doctor bill. Doctors will go to other countries. American healthcare will fail. Would you randomly pick up the check for someones steak dinner? Someone you don't know? Probably not. Then why should the productive people, people who try, people who want to be something, pay someone else's doctor bill b/c they cannot afford it for whatever reason it is. Now don't get me wrong, healthcare reform is needed, but not the way Obama wants it.

    Is Obama a socialist?


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  2. anthonylancer

    anthonylancer Member

    I completely agree, that people that don't work should not receive money from the government.

    BTW, "There are 10 types of people, those who understand binary, and those who don't." made me laugh really hard... after I got it.
  3. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants Moderator

    Although like everything else, there are certain exceptions to the rule:

    i.e. People who cannot properly function in society due to disability or illness.
  4. anthonylancer

    anthonylancer Member

    Yea, I forgot to mention that. Do you watch the O'Reilly Factor by the way? Because, it is an interesting show for anyone who is interested in politics.
  5. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants Moderator

    I prefer not to watch large media ran programs as they are often biased, and i often have to turn them off in disgust anyway.
  6. anthonylancer

    anthonylancer Member

    I definitely don't agree with everything Oreily says, especially his debate with Richard Dawkins about god, but the show is sometimes interesting to watch as it informs me of events that I would otherwise not have known about.
  7. DanSan

    DanSan Well-Known Member

    My hat is off to ya bud.. at least some people on this earth still have some common sense and see what shit really is instead of this media hyped "savior" image the media has given this asshole.. the democrats are going to be very surprised when they all get voted out very soon. they promised this "change" crap and now they see what kind of change they really meant and they will not stand for it.

    worst part is the democrats are passing bills and they actually have clauses in them that the bills cannot be removed lol
  8. Crude

    Crude Well-Known Member

    woaw woaw woaw, that's way too much digging. Everything that's wrong with our economy is the republicans fault and everything right is the democrats fault....


    Get real people they are in bed together. It's a bipartisan approach to duping the Americans and getting rich. They don't give a flying turd about what ails us as long as they get re-elected so they can continue the money train.

    Though Pelosi scares the poop outta me, what a witch.
    mms1946 likes this.
  9. DanSan

    DanSan Well-Known Member

    i dont wish death on anybody but she needs to die in a fire
  10. anthonylancer

    anthonylancer Member

    Yeah, so far, Osama isn't doing a very good job... probably from lack of experience.
  11. Crude

    Crude Well-Known Member

    Iowa you baffle me. You're name is Iowa but you're from Chicago. Iowa has little to do with Chicago other then leaning liberal, yet you are conservative?
  12. Crude

    Crude Well-Known Member

    +1
  13. vikingisson

    vikingisson Well-Known Member

    Since I was told not to argue against the *opinions* because they are indeed undeniable *facts* I won't waste much time with it.

    I disagree. And that's my fact.

    done
  14. Crude

    Crude Well-Known Member

    lol
  15. hrbib21

    hrbib21 Well-Known Member

    I would have to agree with this. I am a conservative, not republican, democrat or anything else (when it comes to politics) and I don't see much from either party that impresses me. Democrats are just plain dreadful; Obama has fallen more in approval rating in his first year than any president in modern history and Congress they're still tracking in the 20's(%). Obviously I am not the only one who feels negatively about them.

    On the Republican side, they are guilty (not as much as Dems, though) of massive spending, support for amnesty of illegal aliens, and some even support the lie of "global warming". Sure, there are a few real conservatives wandering about but the Rep party is controlled by Washington beltway types, not REAL conservatives.

    Nope, I'm not happy and I don't see it getting better anytime soon. I'd love to see everyone employed, living comfortable and happily, but I do not support government providing everything for everyone and I never will. If you want things in this nation, get off your butt and work for it like I and many others do every day. 'Personal responsibility' are not just words, they mean mean something.

    But hey, that's just me.
  16. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants Moderator

    It is not opinion, it is fact. You cannot deny it. Its already written in the history books.

    And yes I do believe the Reb/Dems work together, hence my idea of a third party separate from them.

    And my name is 'IOWA' because when I was younger I was very into Slipknot, and they are from IOWA, and they released an album entitled IOWA, it became my nickname and kinda stuck with me.


    And this reminds me of a saying:

    If your not liberal/democrat in your 20's you have no heart. If your not conservative/republican in your 40's you have no brain. Funny part is, I'm in my 20's. I suppose educated people see which way is better =D
  17. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants Moderator

    Here's a plan I fully support.

    Its the Robin Williams Plan!

    Robin Williams, wearing a shirt that says, 'I love New York ' in Arabic. You gotta love Robin Williams.... Even if he's nuts! Leave it to Robin Williams to come up with the perfect plan. What we need now is for our UN Ambassador to stand up and repeat this message.
    Robin Williams' plan...(Hard to argue with this logic!)
    'I see a lot of people yelling for peace, but I have not heard of a plan for peace. So, here's one plan.'
    1) 'The US will apologize to the world for our 'interference' in their affairs, past & present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Tojo, Noriega, Milosevic, Hussein, and the rest of those 'good 'ole' boys', we will never 'interfere' again.
    2) We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with Germany, South Korea, the Middle East, and the Philippines. They don't want us there. We would station troops at our borders. No one allowed sneaking through holes in the fence.
    3) All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave. We'll give them a free trip home. After 90 days, the remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of whom or where they are. They're illegal!!! France will welcome them.
    4) All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days, unless given a special permit!!!! No one from a terrorist nation will be allowed in. If you don't like it there, change it yourself and don't hide here. Asylum would never be available to anyone. We don't need any more cab drivers or 7-11 cashiers.
    5) No foreign 'students' over age 21. The older ones are the bombers. If they don't attend classes, they get a 'D' and it's back home, baby.
    6) The U.S. will make a strong effort to become self-sufficient energy wise. This will include developing nonpolluting sources of energy but will require a temporary drilling of oil in the Alaskan wilderness. The caribou will have to cope for a while.
    7) Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they don't like it, we go someplace else. They can go somewhere else to sell their production. (About a week of the wells filling up the storage sites would be enough.)
    8) If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not 'interfere.' They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds, rain, cement, or whatever they need. Besides most of what we give them is stolen or given to the army. The people who need it most get very little, if anything.
    9) Ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated island someplace. We don't need the spies and fair weather friends here. Besides, the building would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.
    10) All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way, no one can call us 'Ugly Americans' any longer. The Language we speak is ENGLISH...learn it...or LEAVE.... Now, isn't that a winner of a plan?
    'The Statue of Liberty is no longer saying 'Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses.' She's got a baseball bat and she's yelling, 'You want a piece of me?'
    If you agree with the above, forward it to friends... If not, and I would be amazed, DELETE it!!

    And this is relevant, I actually run a facebook group just for this purpose.

    Take back our country! Take Back Our JOBS! Protect the Consitution! | Facebook
  18. vikingisson

    vikingisson Well-Known Member

    lol which history book is that? I doubt you've ever read one.

    agree on one thing, we need a 3rd party. need something more than the single party system now in place.

    bye bye
  19. Crude

    Crude Well-Known Member

    I suppose the saying youth is wasted on the young can be twisted to say wisdom is wasted on the old?
  20. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants Moderator


    Ok then. Besides your denial of the truth, what exactly, I ask you, is not fact of what I have said?

    Yet another example of backing nothing with facts, and taking something way out of context. Is that the best you can do?
  21. vikingisson

    vikingisson Well-Known Member

    quoting professional neocon rhetoric doesn't make fact. I'm not saying that the dems are right either. After all it is a one party system with two colored shirt teams fighting for your money and limited attention.

    I'll go out on a limb and call this whole thread way out of context. The Lounge is indeed for other than Android but not exactly where the world will be saved and certainly not by you.

    "I reject your reality and substitute my own"
  22. reznorfan0

    reznorfan0 Well-Known Member

    as much lack of appreciation as I have for anybody in either party, you have to give it to the Dems for winning an election on two simple words "hope" and "change". How We the People fell for that timeless political cliche is completely beyond understanding.

    A third party is definately the way to go, right now we have the socialist party and the socialist light (or lite if you prefer) party. About the only notable in office official in politics right now who actually sticks to his princibles is Lieberman...at least that was the case until the dems went after his wife for not playing ball on the new health care entitlement.

    But, like the old saying goes, "the country needs to put itself through a Carter before realizing that it needs a Reagan"
  23. MonkeyK

    MonkeyK Well-Known Member

    Ever notice how when people don't understand a phenomenon they put some unrealistic label on it?
    Osama? Socialist? Savior?

    Clearly you don't understand what is going on here. Our country has a number of very large issues that it needs to deal with. Health Care costs, Education, Energy policy, and the national debt to name a few. For the last several presidencies these issues have been ignored. Obama has stated a clear intent to address these issues. That is the appeal. No doubt it will be done imperfectly, but he is willing to try.

    The electorate doesn't believe that Obama is any sort of "savior" and the electorate doesn't want "socialism" (despite for some very backwards opportunists, there is zero reason to question his faith). The case has been made that we have problems to address and opportunities to pursue. The electorate agrees with this case.
  24. MonkeyK

    MonkeyK Well-Known Member

    I am amazed at how effectively Reagan pulled the wool over the conservatives eyes.

    Reagan is given credit for ending the cold war, when it was effectively over before he took office.
    Reagan started the policy of raiding the SS trust fund
    Reagan oversaw the sale of arm to our enemies (and got to duck the charge because he either lied or was so unfit for office that he no longer remembered what he did from day to day --take your pick)
  25. reznorfan0

    reznorfan0 Well-Known Member

    Monkey, first, props, most Obama supporters can't reply to critisism without using 6-12 "F" bombs in their first sentence, so thanks.

    Osama, yes, is a juvenile personal attack on the man that I don't support.

    Savior, indeed, that is exactly how the mainstream media painted the man leading up to the election. Everybody was so caught up in the historicalness of his election, the fact that he had no experience in doing anything meaningful (besides getting free money from the government for minorities as a "community organizer") took a back seat to the facts. He voted simply "present" countless times to avoid having to take any responsibility one way or the other on his record during his short time in the US Senate.

    Socialist, spreading the wealth around is paraphrasing the socialist mantra. In one of the rare instances where he was caught without a teleprompter to read from, saying he wanted to "spread the wealth around a little" was his answer. Cap and trade, this new health care monstrosity, bailouts, and countless other government expansions are all socialistic in nature. Denying that is like trying to deny a tree is made of wood.

    That he wants to tackle these issues is not what is up for debate, it is HOW he is going after them that leave conservatives (and indeed most of the nation) in a cold sweat. If the media had done their jobs and actually questioned the man and revealed a little more of his background pre-election, he never would have even gotten past Hilary.
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