Our (not so) Great president.

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  1. MonkeyK

    MonkeyK Well-Known Member

    That he wants to tackle the issues is his appeal. Hillary did not as effectively convey a sincere desire (though to me the problem was that she was even more polarizing than Obama may be now). Obama's inexperience was fully portrayed, but it is hard to put in perspective after the bar for experience was already lowered with the previous president (List of Governors of Texas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

    Furthermore, he has taken action. Not all of it for the best, but based on the same advice as that received by his predecessor (my read has been that most economists suggest that in times of recession, the gov has to inject money. The problem is always that they don't have the will to stop). And probably in a better form that his predecessor did. Why borrow money from China, just to give it to people to spend at Walmart so that the money can go back to China?

    RE: Socialism - public schools, public roads/highways, public libraries, public water/sewers, public parks, police, fire brigades, and we are still the most capitalistic country in the world. Some form of change to the way health care works will not change that fact.

  2. rondo777

    rondo777 Well-Known Member

    This is really the only accurate comment on the entire tread. Its all BS, none of them give a flying %$#* about anything but filling there pockets. What a joke. The Dems, reps, they are all in bed together and its one big scam to suck the public dry.
  3. TheBrit

    TheBrit Well-Known Member

    IOWA - at the moment you have in the USA a 3rd World health system. How? You may well ask - it's because the well off and well paid are OK and can afford health care but the poor and low paid can go to hell. What made the poor and low paid so undeserving? You REALLY need to do something about that in your country. Obama is making an attempt to fix this and for that he's called a communist. Ridiculous! Some have even gone so far as to call him evil. Evil is denying the poor basic human rights just because they are poor.

    As for welfare - I don't defend those that refuse to work - but in an economy such as the one we (and you) have now - there are millions who WANT to work but are unable to find suitable employment. Please don't call these people lazy - they're not.

    The financial crisis is world wide - Clinton did not force the UK banks (or those4 of any other non USA country) to lend irresposibly. The banks did this all by themselves out of greed.

    Yes - I am a capitalist - one with a conscience. Where people can pay thier way then they certainly should but there are those less fortunate than us through no fault of thier own.

    As for the genuinely lazy - I agree they should get what's coming to them.
  4. Revrusty

    Revrusty Member

    You nailed it, Iowa. Well done! You're a great American, a true patriot.

    As a (holy) ghost writer for some conservative/Christian leaders, it was my job to check out Mr. O during the presidential campaign. What I discovered made my blood run cold. Hope and change? The "hope" is for those who long for a rebirth of communism after the fall of the USSR. The "change" is from a constitutional Republic to a Marxist dictatorship. And disgruntled voters, brainwashed from daily doses of biased misinformation by leftist mainstream media that call bad good and good bad, swallowed it hook, line and sinker.

    It's a perfect storm that must be making Lennin do handsprings in his grave! He would say it's a "God deal" miracle, except that before standing in front of his maker he didn't believe in that dusty old book of legends and old wives tales, you know -- the Bible -- which predicts something like this will happen before the end comes. 2012 anyone?

    Hide and watch -- or campaign and vote for people in November who promise to listen to the people supposedly represent. Knowing, though, that "we the people" hold the power at the ballot box, many are predicting some, uh, crisis will force martial law, which "for the time being" understandably will postpone Senate and House elections and keep the status que in the hands of totalitarian turncoats intent on tyranny. But, hey, I love my HTC Hero!
  5. vincentp

    vincentp Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately I feel it's necessary to preface this with this note clearly stating these are my opinions only, regardless of how strongly worded certain things may be. Take them as that and nothing more.

    I'm totally numb to our "leaders" and their actions. If you think that Obama or the democrats are ruining the country, or if you think that Bush and the republicans ruined the country, but refuse to see any evil on your preferred side, then there is a problem. I'm no conspiracy nut, don't get me wrong, but it's got to be pretty clear by now to anybody with half of a brain that our leaders either don't care to do anything for the regular American people, or simply can't because lobbyists basically run everything. The presidential election is a joke. It's a game. It gets people all riled up over two candidates (2, really? Give me some choices for God's sake) that paint themselves as opposites, but really are going to enact a hell of a lot of the same policies and not bring any drastic changes to your lives. I haven't seen a candidate that I genuinely liked run for the presidential office in my lifetime. The ones who are free thinkers, the ones with the good ideas - republican or democrat, doesn't matter - never make it through the primaries.

    Media is ridiculous and honestly can't be trusted anymore. Whether a media outlet is on the left or right is irrelevant, they're all just there for entertainment. The left/right schism in this country is disgusting. The fact that such a large majority of people are willing to align themselves to one of only two parties - I believe - strongly illustrates the simplistic, weak-minded attitude we've come to accept in this country. A lot of Democrats ate up Obama's "hope" crap like they'd been starved for months. They spent years criticizing Bush only to find out that their precious president is following in his footsteps in plenty of ways, and this "hope and change" he spoke of was completely hollow. I feel like a lot of college kids are vastly disappointed that we're not living in some radically different world right now. Republicans are eating up the right wing media's inane criticisms of the president in the same way. Some people actually take Glen Beck seriously - this terrifies me. When there's plenty of intelligent, viable criticism that should not be ignored, the media wingnuts are driving their followers into a hateful frenzy devoid of critical thinking.

    Please don't get me wrong, I am genuinely happy and thankful to live in this country, but I can't vote for any of these loser clones that they keep trying to shove down my throat. In a very basic way, they're all the same. My interests as a regular, working middle class American are never going to be seriously considered. They spend far too much time bickering and mudslinging over every moronic policy under the sun. Perfect example - is Obama a socialist!? Who the hell cares? Do people even realize how many things in our country are already socialized? We're essentially the only rich democratic country in the world that doesn't provide any sort of health care assistance. The democratic solution is awful. It's not at all up to par with what other countries have implemented. What we have going through right now is basically just going to put more money in insurance companies' pockets, because we're throwing them however many millions of new customers. Public option is out (it was never well put together in the first place) and it's entirely possible that you may actually be fined for not purchasing health care. Way to go democrats, I can see you really have my health in mind.

    Go to some of the other countries and see if people are going bankrupt regularly thanks to health care costs. They're not. Do they yell about socialized medical care being bad? I seriously doubt it, because all it's really doing is making their lives better. They're not wasting time getting all up in arms over some anti-socialism "principle" that in reality doesn't make any difference. Oh wait, it does make a difference. We're supposedly the most advanced, free and powerful country in the world, yet our health care quality is abysmal. That's the only thing that matters to me, not some BS socialism/capitalism argument. I'm pretty sure we've just been convinced that pure capitalism is tantamount to democracy and freedom. Completely silly if you ask me. Look at what happened thanks to our wonderful pure capitalist economy. The greedy cheaters got rich and the hard-working got screwed. Now the hard-working are getting more screwed while we "fix" it (ironically by helping to keep the idiots afloat that caused it all), and the rich are just as rich. Meanwhile, they still have all the influence they've ever had over which laws succeed and which laws fail.

    I guess I'm very pessimistic when it comes to politicians. Like it or not though, you have to admit that we're not as democratic as we are led to believe. The health care predicament is not the only example, but it's a great one. The money that runs the great majority of our politicians has succeeded in what they set out to do. I felt like I, as a citizen, have absolutely no control over whether we have health care reform, and if we do, how it is designed. This applies to just about everything. I have no control over a lot of substantial issues, because if there's a big business interest (and there almost always is) mine is rendered moot. It doesn't matter which fool I vote for. They're not going to do most of the things they say they'll do anyways. My interest is far in the back of their minds. If it doesn't mirror the interest of some greedy billionaire company, then it doesn't get serious consideration, but they're more than willing to pretend they're helping me out and shout crap through their news outlets.

    I haven't voted for a president in a while, and my life is not drastically different because of it. I just go with the flow and live as best I can. If the day comes when some sort of crazy thing happens that starts actually affecting the way I live in a negative way, then I'm out of here. For now, regardless of how screwed up our political system is, I'm still happy and content living here, under Bush or Obama or Clinton or McCain - whatever. It doesn't matter. There are exceptions of course - Palin is a complete nutjob and I would fight to have just about anybody run for office in her place, but insane idiots aside, it's all the same.
  6. TheBrit

    TheBrit Well-Known Member

    Wow! Are you for real?
  7. MonkeyK

    MonkeyK Well-Known Member

    LOL! If your dusty old book predicts this, then who are you to oppose it? Heck, why even bother researching Mr. O? You know something bad must be going down.
    Sit back, pray, and enjoy the show!

    Your faithful servant,
  8. Crude

    Crude Well-Known Member

    Be very careful if you want to criticize Americas healthcare system. I grew up in Austria and experienced their system which is pretty close to the UKs from what I understand.And I assure you its terrible compared to ours.
  9. SamuraiBigEd

    SamuraiBigEd Under paid Sasquatch! Moderator

    All I will say is I have always supported the president, whether he was my choice or not...till now. There are bad things on the horizon.
  10. Revrusty

    Revrusty Member

    As the day is short (at this time of year), TheBrit. Couldn't believe it myself, but you've got to ask why would a guy pay more than $1.4 million to keep his real birth certificate and all of his college and personal records sealed from public view.
  11. Revrusty

    Revrusty Member

    He's Godzilla to America's Tokyo, romping and stomping as fast as he can before the mind-warped public finally catches on -- and he's betting everything on that being too late for him to be stopped.
  12. vikingisson

    vikingisson Well-Known Member

    And I heard from a guy who knows a dude with credentials that heard it on the internets so it must be true that Nasa didn't really land on the moon.
    in fact..... Nasa was so upset over the controversy that they took out a full page ad way back in the day (this part *is* true) that said "Yes We Did". Is it a coincidence that O used a similar phrase Yes We Can? oh my, I'm starting to see the truth now. How could I have been so blind for so many decades? Please young zen masters, where can I learn the truth and the way? BTW, who *should* be the king of Amerika?
  13. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants Moderator

    If you are TRULY a capitalist you will realize that Healthcare is NOT a right. It is a privilege. It's like saying everyone should have a RIGHT to drive. A driver's license is a privilege as well, NOT a RIGHT. I suggest you learn the difference.

    But what would someone known as "TheBrit" know about true democracy, and capitalism? England has been run by the archaic King/Queen system and you don't know any better.

    And who are you to naysay/dismiss someone's religion? If you don't believe, then fine don't, but don't put down someone's beliefs because you don't have faith. Even Eienstien believed in God, and he was undoubtedly the smartest man that ever walked on the planet.
  14. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants Moderator

    But we are not powerless. We just need to speak up. People have become so lazy/stupid they don't know any better. Literally, all it would take is a band of people determined to change the way things really are. It may escalate to violence, but freedom don't come free.

    And something I just noticed, notice that all the obama supporters/democrat supporters have supplied absolutely no fact, and have resorted to making fun/discrediting my OP, when it did in fact happen, and that is how it happened. And if you say it is not true, then explain to me this:

    How is it NOT a fact, that Bill Clinton and his club enabled millions of people to buy houses they can't afford, resulting in the cascading affect that is today's economy. Explain it. You can't. Bring it or go home.

    And I fully support a Third party. I do not fully support Republicans either but I do believe they are the lesser of two evils.... but we shouldn't have to settle for that.
  15. Revrusty

    Revrusty Member

    We, the people, will try. More and more are coming out from under the spell. However, knowing how the White House's undocumented resident is using the Allinsky playbook, he isn't going to allow us the opportunity to undo his damage at the ballot box. This really is in God's hands.
  16. Drew1204

    Drew1204 Well-Known Member

    Here's a good story

    John G. is 63 years old and owns a small business. He's a life-long Republican and sees his dream of retiring next year has all but evaporated. With the stock market crashing and new taxes coming his way, John assumes now that he will work to his dying day.

    John has a granddaughter. Ashley is a recent college grad. She drives a flashy hybrid car, wears all the latest fashions, and loves to go out to nightclubs and restaurants.. Ashley campaigned hard for Barack Obama. After the election she made sure her grandfather (and all other Republican family members) received a big I told-you-so earful on how the world is going to be a much better place now that her party is taking over.

    Having lost both roommates, Ashley recently ran short of cash and cannot pay the rent (again) on her 3 bedroom townhouse. Like she has done many times in the past, she e-mailed her grandfather asking for some financial help.

    Here is his reply:


    I received your request for assistance.

    Ashley, you know I love you dearly and I 'm sympathetic to your financial plight. Unfortunately, times have changed. With the election of President Obama, your grandmother and I have had to set forth a bold new economic plan of our own..."The Ashley Economic Empowerment Plan." Let me explain.

    Your grandmother and I are life-long, wage-earning tax payers. We have lived a comfortable life, as you know, but we have never had the fancier things like European vacations, luxury cars, etc. We have worked hard and were looking forward to retiring soon. But the plan has changed. Your president is raising our personal and business taxes significantly. He says it is so he can give our hard earned money to other people. Do you know what this means, Ashley? It means less for us, and we must cut back on many business and personal expenses.

    You know the wonderful receptionist who worked in my office for more than 23 years? The one who always gave you candy when you came over to visit? I had to let her go last week. I can't afford to pay her salary and all of the government mandated taxes that go with having employees. Your grandmother will now work 4 days a week to answer phones, take orders and handle the books. We will be closed on Fridays and will lose even more income to the Wal-Mart.

    I'm also very sorry to report that your cousin Frank will no longer be working summers in the warehouse. I called him at school this morning. He already knows about it and he's upset because he will have to give up skydiving and his yearly trip to Greenland to survey the polar bears.

    That's just the business side of things. Some personal economic effects of Obama's new taxation policies include none other than you. You know very well that over the years your grandmother and I have given you thousands of dollars in cash, tuition assistance, food, housing, clothing, gifts, etc., etc. But by your vote, you have chosen to help others -- not at your expense -- but at our expense.

    If you need money now sweetheart, I recommend you call 202-456-1111. That is the direct phone number for the White House. You yourself told me how foolish it is to vote Republican. You said Mr. Obama is going to be the People's President, and is going to help every American live a better life. Based on everything you've told me, along with all the promises we heard during the campaign, I'm sure Mr. Obama will be happy to transfer some stimulus money into your bank account. Have him call me for the account number which I memorized years ago..

    Perhaps you can now understand what I've been saying all my life: those who vote for a president should consider the impact on the nation as a whole, and not be just concerned with what they can get for themselves. What Obama supporters don't seem to realize is all of the money he is redistributing to illegal aliens and non-taxpaying Americans (the so-called "less fortunate") comes from tax-paying families.

    Remember how you told me, "Only the richest of the rich will be affected"? Well guess what, honey? Because we own a business, your grandmother and I are now considered to be the richest of the rich.. On paper, it might look that way, but in the real world, we are far from it.

    As you said while campaigning for Obama, some people will have to carry more of the burden so all of America can prosper. You understand what that means, right? It means that raising taxes on productive people results in them having less money; less money for everything, including granddaughters.

    I'm sorry, Ashley, but the well has run dry. The free lunches are over. I have no money to give you now. So, congratulations on your choice for "change." For future reference, I encourage you to try and add up the total value of the gifts and cash you have received from us, just since you went off to college, and compare it to what you expect to get from Mr. Obama over the next 4 (or 8) years. I have not kept track of it, Ashley. It has all truly been the gift of our hearts.

    Remember, we love you dearly....but from now on you'll need to call the number mentioned above. Your "Savior" has the money we would have given to you. Just try and get it from him.

    Good luck, sweetheart.

  17. vincentp

    vincentp Well-Known Member

    You paint the picture of a president that's on some sort of sadistic mission to make everyone's lives horrible. I really don't think that's the case here. Obama has basically done nothing since he's been in office, and that's exactly the problem here. He hasn't done anything useful, and he hasn't done anything malicious either. He's doing nothing to make anything any better for the people.

    I think it's a little bit funny that the far right is going up in arms over things that they think Obama will do or wants to do. I'm pretty certain whatever world-ending scenario has been speculated about here is never going to happen. The thing is, the far left diehards were saying the exact same things about Bush. I remember people going ballistic about how they were sure he was going to create martial law to stop him losing his office. They were so sure about it. Guess what... never happened. Not going to happen this time either. This is why I hate the 2 party system. It divides people down a ridiculously black and white line when that is not how the world works.
  18. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants Moderator

    Agreed. We need a 3rd, or even 4th party. Or abandon the parties altogether, and be all independents.
  19. Crude

    Crude Well-Known Member

    Well he did supposedly release a few detainees from Gitmo that supposedly in turn masterminded the exploding underwear plot? I'm not sure that they became terrorist after being held captive...but it would be odd that they became masterminds after being only released a few months?

    oh and Iowa I think you may have me pegged all wrong. I suppose my cynical and sometimes sarcastic nature doesn't translate well into text. While I don't feel that either party represents me I do feel the Republicans have less short comings....like pelosi and stuff...just sayin' is all....
  20. Slug

    Slug Check six! Moderator

    Please, if you're going to deal with geopolitics at least get the basic facts right:

    (a) The nation is United Kingdom/Great Britain. "England" is but part of it, alongside Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales.

    (b) Great Britain hasn't been "run" by the monarch for several centuries now. In fact, he/she has a lot less influence on how the country is "run" than your president i.e. none. The monarch is a figurehead, nothing more. Power resides with the elected representatives of the people in Westminster (and to a lesser extent in devolved assemblies for Wales and Scotland).

    On a general note, Marx ≠ Lenin and socialism ≠ communism, at least not in any of the political textbooks I read at university.

    Nonetheless, it's a very interesting and illuminating discussion.
  21. TheBrit

    TheBrit Well-Known Member

    Thanks Slug. I was going to say pretty much the same thing about the British Royal Family. Thier role has been for a very long time just ceremonial and promoting of charities they like.

    Oh man, you can't compare health care to having a driving license. Also, please tell me how somebody earns the privelidge of health care.

    IOWA - if you are ever down on your luck, please try not to get sick.
  22. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants Moderator

    And how is forcing doctors who pay 100's of thousands of dollars and nearly half thier life preparing for their career to accept lower pay from the government a RIGHT of the people? And I CAN compare it, and I did, and it is a valid comparison. If people don't like our health care system they can go to Mexico. Let's see what's worse.

    And *still* no-one has come forth with facts discrediting my OP. Just flames, rhetoric, and *I disagree*'s.

    And crude, I know where your coming from. I am actually known amongst my friends as the "King of one liners" and the "Sultan of assholes" due to my cynical and sarcastic nature, and I do agree, since there is no "tone of voice" or "body language" or other indicators we can *Read*, it does not translate at all very well on a forum =D. So I understand.

    And as for the UK, If the monarchy system is truly outdated, and electorates are voted in, why didn't they vote away the monarchy system? And that is a genuine question, please don't take it wrong as you are correct, I don't know much about UK politics, and nor do I care, really, as it has no immediate affect on me and I have more pressing issues.

    And I have been in bad spots where *I* didn't have insurance, and I didn't go crying about it, I *did* something about it. So yes, health care *is* in fact a * privilege*, because it affects other people. Once again, why should I foot the bill for someone who doesn't even want to try? I know that is not always the case, but coming from Chicago, and what I *see*, that is the norm.

    And Socialism is the road to Communism. It is merely a transition. Let's face facts here, the people in power are trying to create a one world government, the evidence is right in front of our eyes. Things such as the Eurodollar, The UN, and straight up talks about it. I for one don't like the idea, and I do believe it will start a new age of tyranny, if it hasn't already started with all the electronic surveillance that's already going on. What we need to do, is simply organize, and show up at doorsteps and such of our politicians, and voice our griefs. Show them no mercy. Don't let them sleep without knowing someone is out there complaining. They are public servants, they are elected to serve us. It's time to let them know that.

    And another thing that irks me a bit, why does USA politics concern those of you that do not reside in the states so much? Why stick your nose in things that you just don't belong in? Are you here simply to stir the pot? All you know is what your media feeds you. Oh, and are you enjoying your "three strikes" rules from the ISPs? Want to talk about how bad our government is? Look at YOURS. You don't even have to be convicted of file sharing, just ACCUSED, and they cut off your service at the RIAA's request. That's tyranny and infringement of freedom in it's rawest form. You have absolutely no say in the matter. And that's in many other countries as well. So before you comment/flame other countries politics, look at your own. You have your own problems to fix.

    Agreed. Where's his so-called "transparency" ?
  23. TheBrit

    TheBrit Well-Known Member

    I'm not saying my country is perfect. Far from it. Our politicians have just been caught with thier snouts in the trough. I will not be voting for the current party in power.

    Doctors in the UK are paid very well and are amongst the best paid people in the UK. I know in some other European countries that is not the case.

    I hear you when you talk about one-world government - and what it means. I want to avaoid it just as much as you but for the sake of peace nations should work together. Working together does not have to result in a one world government.

    Trouble is, part of the scenario is preceded by the Roman Empire (read Treaty of Rome - read European Union) rising again. Oh, and the reformation of Israel. The world has been on this path since 1948 and all these things are leading up to the rapture/second coming/whatever.

    And while were on Biblical stuff - where's your compassion for the less fortunate? Read Matthew 25 verses 31 to 46. Are you a sheep or a goat? I'm a sheep, what about you, your health care rantings make you sound like a goat.

    And who said the world was coming to an end in 2012? Oh yes, Hollywood.
  24. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants Moderator

    I do have compassion for other people, but God also says we need to provide for ourselves. Think about it, we have all this crap. Crap we don't really need, and we put it in front of things we don't need. People who can't "afford" healthcare but yet are driving around escalades, have xbox 360's, wii's and 500 dollar phones, 100 dollar shoes, and more. This isn't always the case, but it is the norm. People just need to re-arrange their priorities, and I agree, we do need to work together, and a one-world government needs to be avoided. These are very dangerous times, and we need to tread carefully.

    Oh and the 2012 thing, actually derived from several sources, such as the Mayan calendar, and many other non-related ancient civilizations that I don't feel like looking up. A google search should suffice.

    On a side not:

    Before anyone goes off saying I'm pompous, or a prick, or whatever, I do welcome any debates. And I know things can get heated, but that just shows how passionate we are about the subject. And it is GOOD to question the opposition, because it makes us research and learn more, and hopefully both sides learn something.
  25. TheBrit

    TheBrit Well-Known Member

    Now ALL of this I agree with. But I still disagree on your assessment of Obama and healthcare.

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