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Phone seems so laggy...

Thanks for posting that Trident.

While that FAQ does a good job of explaining how Android's RAM management system works, which I had no idea about, it doesn't to a very good job of convincing me of the negative aspects of using a Task Killer.

Let me explain my reasoning/rebuttals to a few lines in the FAQ:

-"Killing a process when it isn’t ready only causes it to have to reload itself and start from scratch when it’s needed again."

Who cares? Maybe a process will reload itself, maybe it won't. If it's a process I am killing, I am hoping it won't. If it's a process I do want running, I will put it on the ignore list on TasKiller. This also assumes that most processes will reload themselves, only a few core processes (such as Calendar, Corporate Calendar, etc.) generally reload themselves. Also, do processes have feelings? How can a process not "be ready" to be killed. It's as ready as I want it to be.

-"Killing certain processes can have undesirable side effects. Not receiving text messages, alarms not going off, and force closes just to name a few."

Well that's just dead wrong. I use TasKiller day in and day out and I've never had an alarm not go off or not received a text message. This really limits the author's credibility, if he's wrong about this who knows what else he's wrong about.

-"The only true way to prevent something from running at all on your phone would be to uninstall the .apk."

Bologna. The only processes that tend to restart themselves are core processes that cannot be uninstalled (unless maybe you're a root user? i'm not). And if this were true, fine, I'll just kill the process again.

-"One thing that I forgot to even address here is that memory works a bit differently in linux than it does in Windows. In general the way memory works is you really only need as much as you plan on using. So if your combined running programs use 100mb of memory, 150mb is more than enough. There is no need to clear what’s running in memory before you hit that 150mb cap. Now in Windows it seems that the system performs a bit better when you have less stuff in memory, even if it’s not full. No doubt those who have been on computers for a while will remember there used to be programs that could clear your memory in Windows also.

Linux however isn’t generally affected by this. While I admit that I don’t know the architecture and reason for this… linux will run the same regardless of if you have 20mb free memory or 200mb."


Somehow I'm just not entirely convinced this is true. I don't understand how Linux can magically run the same on less CPU without lagging when Windows can't, and if the author admits that he doesn't understand either, well, it's just not very convincing.

-"Most applications will exit themselves if you get out of it by hitting “back” until it closes rather than hitting the “home” button. But even with hitting home, Android will eventually kill it once it’s been in the background for a while."

Maybe "eventually" isn't good enough for me.

-"I have also seen people incorrectly assume that the more memory in use, the faster their battery will die."

This must be why most of the comments for Task Killer apps on the Android Market say something like "5 stars! This app helped me significantly extend my battery life!"

-"When can a task manager be a good thing?? To help you determine what IS slowing down your phone; what may actually be draining your battery faster. That is actually what helped us discover that there appears to be a bug still left over from 1.5 that is causing slow downs on our CDMA Hero’s even today. While an item using up memory isn’t going to hurt things, an item chewing through your CPU absolutely will. Now I still don’t suggest using a task killer to kill a program that is using up your processor (unless of course it is a zombie process that is going crazy, but you should probably just reboot in that case). But it can help you see what’s going on with your phone."

So the end conclusion of a FAQ titled "Why You Shouldn't Be Using A Task Killer With Android" is "Maybe you should be using a Task Killer with Android". Man, I'm convinced! I'm uninstalling TasKiller immediately!


 
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I'm in the don't need a task killer camp.

There are other applications that are better indicators of what's going on, in my experience. Two examples are CPU Utilization Plus & Memory Utilization Plus. Both are paid, but there's a free version of each.

CPU has an auto-refresh option so you can see what's happening real time. Memory displays current & peak use.
 
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I'm definitely in the "to each their own" category, but I use TasKiller regularly and I get almost 2 days out of my battery between charges. I don't know about you guys but I think that's a pretty long time. I definitely don't believe I could extend my battery life by not using it.

I went back and read some of the previous threads about Task Killers and no offense to her, but I'm entirely convinced that OfTheDamned (who is apparently the resident expert on this issue) doesn't have a good goddamn idea what she's talking about regarding Task Killers or Linux memory management. It seems people are just convinced because she gives long winded explanations that sound "techie" enough that "she must be right". I for one am not buying it.
 
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I have had mixed results with task killers. When I first started with android, I would use it all the time. I quit using it after a while, and got the same performance. I do find them helpful or those times when my phone is deciding to be really laggy and I don't have time for a reboot. That happens maybe once a week or less. Recently I have discovered that some custom roms (JRummy) have scripts that change the amount of open ram the native memory manager keeps open. My guess is that the default ram is around 30mb, since that is what the task killer usually said was free when I was using it. I now run a script that keeps 50 mb open, and I don't have these problems. There are also options for 75 and 100 mb free, but this makes it hard to use the camera without everything else shutting down.
 
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I just opened WAY more than 6 apps, I have 20+ apps running and only one of them closed itself. So it appears the Guide was either lying or misinformed when he said Android automatically closes apps after you run more than 6. I'd rather use TasKiller to free up RAM than have 20+ apps running at once. Is that ok with you, or is that a fail on all levels?

I would instead argue NOT using a Task Killer = fail, but to each his own. I think the argument that using a TasKiller (which frees up RAM) causes the phone to lag is BS.

The idea of 6 apps being open and only six apps is wrong. People get this idea because of the little multitasking menu that shows the last 6 you were using. Android ends apps when RAM is low and needed by other applications, not after a specific number of apps are opened.
 
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Why would a task killer cause your phone to lag? I assumed it would be the opposite. I use TasKiller (not Advanced Task Killer) and I kill tasks regularly throughout the day using the TasKiller widget on my home screen. I've never had any issues with lagging. Maybe ATK is worse for some reason?

Please explain if you can.
It's not that ATK is worse than task killer, its just that people are killing the wrong task and when you kill the wrong task, it can happen instantly or maybe later like when you bring your phone out of sleep mode, those task are going to restart. When they restart it will cause your phones to lag momentarily while those processes restart. I've only noticed this issue myself when shutting down the wrong system task. For instance "setting, quick search box and voice search" I know are three task that will constantly restart themselves, will the quick search box causes the most lag.
 
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The scientific approach is the only thing that could sway me. Meanwhile I'll uninstall TasKiller & observe the effects on performance and battery life. It'll be tough to live without, but in the interests of objectivity it's probably a good idea.

I'm going to run a research study on linux memory managment and the impact on task killers. You guys make excellent points which makes me question what members like OTD are saying. Give me a week or two to finish and I'll post my findings to the forum.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
 
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Idk about you publicanimal but I get pretty much about two days out of my battery withOUT a task killer. I found out that it indeed was doing what others have been saying - slowing things down, making processes not run (even with the ignore list feature), etc. I took it off over a month ago and saw basically no difference in battery life, but a huge difference in performance. Since Android is Linux based, it is true that you don't have to manually kill off apps, since it will take memory from other running apps to use it for the one that is currently on screen. That's the beauty of linux and of course in this case - Android.
 
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I went ahead and uninstalled TasKiller, I'm going to give it at least a week. If my battery life or performance isn't compromised then I would have to agree that it's not necessary to use a task killer.


Idk about you publicanimal but I get pretty much about two days out of my battery withOUT a task killer. I found out that it indeed was doing what others have been saying - slowing things down, making processes not run (even with the ignore list feature), etc. I took it off over a month ago and saw basically no difference in battery life, but a huge difference in performance. Since Android is Linux based, it is true that you don't have to manually kill off apps, since it will take memory from other running apps to use it for the one that is currently on screen. That's the beauty of linux and of course in this case - Android.
 
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I just opened WAY more than 6 apps, I have 20+ apps running and only one of them closed itself. So it appears the Guide was either lying or misinformed when he said Android automatically closes apps after you run more than 6. I'd rather use TasKiller to free up RAM than have 20+ apps running at once. Is that ok with you, or is that a fail on all levels?

I would instead argue NOT using a Task Killer = fail, but to each his own. I think the argument that using a TasKiller (which frees up RAM) causes the phone to lag is BS.

I don't know what guide you and others are referring to, but task killer/manager programs are showing 6 applications that are running in the foreground, the ones that you can toggle between when holding the home key. All the rest of them are applications that have processes running in the background. For example a task killer/manager program will tell you than Weather Bug is running if you have it installed, but in actuality it is the update service portion of it that is running or the widget itself if you have it on your home screen.

Don't get me wrong, background services/processes do have the ability in my opinion to boggle down the speed of your phone, but they usually is noticeable once your phone memory gets down to 30 or less mb.
 
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I don't have lag problems with the Droid at all, but the Incredible does have a faster processor (1 Ghz vs 550 Mhz). I am incredibly happy with the Droid.

So is the Droid a lag-prone phone? I ask because I am on a Touch Pro 2 now and absolutely hate it due to the serious lag issues it has. I am wanting an Incredible, but right now there is a steal on the Droid on Wirefly, but if there is a lag problem forget it, I will wait.
 
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  • Google Talk (7.6mb)
  • ATK Free (2.6mb)
  • Weather Widgets (3.4mb)
  • Android Core Apps (9.4mb)
  • Lookout Security (2.8mb)
  • myLock Basic (2.4mb)
  • Locale Wifi (2.2mb)
  • Locale (4.7mb)
  • Swype (12mb) <-- holy crap, 12mb?!
  • Available: 7.9mb + 54mb in 14, Other: 600mb in 3

You don't need a task killer, especially with the set of apps you have. Feel free to read my post on it over at AC: Task Killers/Multi-Tasking/etc on Android (Continuation from iPhone Thread) - Android Forums

You are running a lot of background applications, which will definitely slow you down. Locale is very cpu/battery usage heavy. Never heard of myLock, but it looks like a background task which is always running. Etc etc... Google Voice is fine, and I haven't tried Swype yet.

Anyway, Uninstall some of the more unknown apps with low popularity (like MyLock), and see how your phone responds. Also, reboot to free any poorly written apps that use Static variables (read the post I referenced above to understand what that is).
 
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I'm definitely in the "to each their own" category, but I use TasKiller regularly and I get almost 2 days out of my battery between charges. I don't know about you guys but I think that's a pretty long time. I definitely don't believe I could extend my battery life by not using it.

I went back and read some of the previous threads about Task Killers and no offense to her, but I'm entirely convinced that OfTheDamned (who is apparently the resident expert on this issue) doesn't have a good goddamn idea what she's talking about regarding Task Killers or Linux memory management. It seems people are just convinced because she gives long winded explanations that sound "techie" enough that "she must be right". I for one am not buying it.

No offense taken, you are entitled to your opinion. :) I have never claimed or attempted to be an expert on the subject. People have asked for my opinion and I have provided it. I also do not condemn anyone for using one. Everyone's phone is different and everyone's needs are different. What you use and what I do will result in different battery life and system performance no matter what. My primary objection to task killers, as I have stated repeatedly, is the forced or "advised" use when people first purchase their phones.

While I do admit to being very long winded I do disagree with your assessment that I don't "have a good goddamn idea what [I'm] talking about regarding Task Killers or Linux memory management." Since all the information I have on the subject came from developers, Linux (self proclaimed) experts and people that actually work on the Android OS itself, I actually consider myself to have at least a little bit of a clue. ;)


Now, when I address a few of the comments you made in this post, I would like you to understand that I am in no way trying to argue with you or start/continue a ridiculous yes/no debate on task killers. The only reason I am commenting at all is that I want to point out some things that you may have overlooked.

Let me explain my reasoning/rebuttals to a few lines in the FAQ:

-"Killing a process when it isn
 
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I'm definitely in the "to each their own" category, but I use TasKiller regularly and I get almost 2 days out of my battery between charges. I don't



No offense taken, you are entitled to your opinion. :) I have never claimed or attempted to be an expert on the subject. People have asked for my opinion and I have provided it. I also do not condemn anyone for using one. Everyone's phone is different and everyone's needs are different. What you use and what I do will result in different battery life and system performance no matter what. My primary objection to task killers, as I have stated repeatedly, is the forced or "advised" use when people first purchase their phones.



While I do admit to being very long winded I do disagree with your assessment that I don't "have a good goddamn idea what [I'm] talking about regarding Task Killers or Linux memory management." Since all the information I have on the subject came from developers, Linux (self proclaimed) experts and people that actually work on the Android OS itself, I actually consider myself to have at least a little bit of a clue. ;)





Now, when I address a few of the comments you made in this post, I would like you to understand that I am in no way trying to argue with you or start/continue a ridiculous yes/no debate on task killers. The only reason I am commenting at all is that I want to point out some things that you may have overlooked.



Let me explain my reasoning/rebuttals to a few lines in the FAQ:



-"Killing a process when it isn&#146;t ready only causes it to have to reload itself an



If you are having to reload a commonly used process from scratch each time you use it, how exactly is the phone faster with a task killer?



-"Killing certain processes can have undesirable side effects. Not receiving text messages, alarms not going off, and force closes just to name a few.



You have to remember that vanilla Android is not the only version out there. With phones like the Hero and Eris running Sense UI and the Cliq and Backflip running Blur there are problems with killing some things. Just an example, there are processes on the Eris/Hero that killing will force the whole Sense UI to reload every time. The way the OS is written it has a few things that are more or less interwoven and killing them will cause things to shut down. In these cases email, sms, alarms, etc can stop functioning all together. Just because this doesn't pose a problem on your phone doesn't mean it is the same for others. It also, doesn't make the author dead wrong.



-"The only true way to prevent something from running at all on your phone would be to uninstall the .apk."



Bologna. The only processes that tend



Again, with Sense UI and Blur (from what I have seen) things do start on their own. Now most of these are running in an inactive state and aren't really causing issues, but killing them over and over and just having them start up does no good at all. The only way to prevent them from ever running again is to root and remove the apk.



-"One thing that I forgot to even address here is that memory works a bit differently in linux than it does in Windows. In general the way memory work



I can't claim to understand it completely either. I am not a Linux expert, but I do know that Linux is not Windows and that the two operate differently from each other. The people that I know that know Linux have said that this is the case and they are much smarter than I so I take them at their word.



-"Most applications will exit themselves if you get out of it by hitting &#147;back&#148; until it closes rather than hitting the &#147;home&#148; button. But even with h



I don't experience a whole lot of "eventually" with most apps. Many of the apps that I use have an exit/quit option when hitting menu (Pandora and Ambling Book Player come to mind). After I hit quit or exit they are gone. No need to worry about them running. Most of the other apps I use will exit out or go to an inactive state when I hit the back button.





-"I have also seen people incorrectly assume that the more memory in use, the faster their battery will die."



This must be why most of the comments



Most of the comments I see on the forum state that people see longer battery life AFTER removing their task killers.







As I said before, your use and my use will always differ and there is no right answer to the question. I only wish to give people a few things to think about on the subject.
Thank you for taking the time to address the posts in this thread. I have done my own research and determined that everything you have said can be backed up by Linux as well as Android experts.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
 
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I removed my task killer and got a little overzealous with removing things and wasn't very careful. I pissed off Helix Launcher somehow and it got itself into a FC loop. Thanks to some advice from Optimus, I put Helix in timeout for a little while so that I can think about what I did.

Anyway, I'll see how performance goes without the task killer for a month or so.
 
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