Putting to rest the myths about Task Killers/RAM Optimizers and the like

[thekingsteven]

The turbo charger I received from HTC when using either apps mentioned doesn't show turbo charge anywhere....

 

[EarlyMon]

The turbo charger I received from HTC when using either apps mentioned doesn't show turbo charge anywhere....

I have no doubt it was defective, I just thought I'd share some more ammo for you for the next one.

 

[EarlyMon]

I want to discuss now the main settings, developer options, advanced, limit background processes option.

We've discussed it for years, off and on, and HTC recommended it for multitasking woes on the Evo 4G LTE with ICS and 1 GB RAM back in 2012.

It came up again recently with @knoober (thread slice copied above) and again in a rather detailed discussion with @lunatic59 in -

http://androidforums.com/threads/dissabling-background-processes.917285/

Suffering no performance issues myself but never one to leave well enough along, I went ahead and set my background processes limit to 4.

I just found something on my M8.

Developer options (settings, About, Software, Build number, tap it until you get it, nothing bad will happen to your data or warranty), Advanced, Background process limit - 4.

Use phone a while, reboot.

It'll come back and say unlimited but before and after the reboot System Panel will show that the limit is not enforced.

Except everything speeds up, especially Web browsers and they don't redraw going in and out of them.

EDIT - ok you can get that to happen - only after loading a lot of intensive apps - and it's still hugely improved.

And my phone was no slouch to begin with.

HTC has handed this out for support advice in the past fwiw.

In short -

- my background processes were not limited to 4 (noted difference from ICS in 2012)

- my phone ran amazingly faster

- my browsers became remarkably more stable

- the performance changes survived a reboot

- the post-reboot setting indicates the default, not 4 (very common menu bug)

- the effects are repeatable and not placebo (I may post screen movies later, not sure of the need yet)

That was on an HTC One M8 KitKat rooted.

The memory management became more dramatic on an HTC One M8 Lollipop stock - but the speed and browser improvements were the same.

I have some very good ideas and suspicions as to what's going on.

Before proceeding, I'm asking for rooted volunteers (who understand to make a nandroid backup first) to test this and report results on non-HTC phones.

@KOLIO has already volunteered for the M9.

Cheers, thanks!

 

[Lordvincent 90]

Htc one sv. Trying now.

Edit - initial impression: unsure. It's pretty much the same. Browser redraw seems unaffected. Although, it does seem that Swype is keeping up with me a little better. I'll try it like this for a while and see what happens

 

[funkylogik]

I still don't have this thing rooted mate

 

[KOLIO]

I'll try this out on the NEXUS 6.
Stock/rooted,not much loaded on it at all.

 

[KOLIO]

Same-same on stock/rooted NEXUS 6,after a reboot,Developer Options is indicating the default number of processes,even though I selected 4.
I'll observe browser behavior & general phone performance for the next couple of days & see what arises.

 

[EarlyMon]

Without further feedback, I'm going to call my results pathological for now and continue to profile it to explain at least to myself what I've seen.

 

[KOLIO]

I just did a fresh install of VIPER 1.5.0 full ROM on my M9.
Anything specific you'd like me to try out?

 

[EarlyMon]

I just did a fresh install of VIPER 1.5.0 full ROM on my M9.
Anything specific you'd like me to try out?

Appreciate it but no - you're going to need some settling in time and time to settle on a personal configuration.

And as you mentioned, both of our phones are fast but with 3 GB, an 810, and a new generation of Viper, I'd be surprised if anything I'm seeing or could suggest would matter.

 

[EarlyMon]

Gotta love how Clean Master Speed Booster made a top ten list for battery hogs.

http://androidforums.com/threads/battery-memory-data-hogs-top-10.921402/

 

[hiredgun]

Knowing how these companies operate, they will probably turn into into a positive by stating "a recent report puts Clean Master Speed Booster in the TOP TEN apps among Android Phone users!" Conveiniently leaving out the "battery hog" part, lol.

Gotta love how Clean Master Speed Booster made a top ten list for battery hogs.

http://androidforums.com/threads/battery-memory-data-hogs-top-10.921402/

 

[WolfElemental]

I don't intend to believe an app identified as snake oil and go from there.

Instead, I'm going to leave you with the following. What you do with the information is your business.


http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Negative_proof

We can't seem to establish for you that the Battery Doctor is snake oil - therefore you believe what it tells you.

I could go into the details of teaching process monitoring in Android but you can do that yourself by googling "man ps" and "man top" to get the Linux user manual pages' definition, then run those commands in Terminal Emulator and send the output to a file for your forensic study.

Then you'll going to see all of the helper processes that Android is running and I suspect that at that point, we're going to be in to a full lesson on how *nix operating systems work.

We'll be well past your firsthand discovery that you were told the truth in the first place - that the app in question is a bunch of bullshit - and on to operating system theory. I took years to learn it properly.

We don't have time for all that so I've selected some high points.

Apps in Android run with intents.

Yes. Sometimes when you wake up one app - like your contacts - a signal occurs that triggers other apps - like the dialer or or your sms app - to get on deck so you don't have to wait for a cold launch.

Those signals are called intents. They're tightly managed and well controlled.

And outside of you tapping the screen or the foreground app calling for a background service, it's the only way that Android wakes up and runs things. (Apart from things like email that sleep, wake up to sync, sleep, wake up to sync, etc etc.)

Unless you're the geniuses at Battery Doctor who have discovered that omg pwnies, a camera can wake up 20 foreground apps and processes and omg only Battery Doctor can save you.

So rather than me continue to bicker about this, how about you look at each of those 20 apps and figure out how you can access each one from the camera.

The alternative to Battery Doctor NOT being snake oil lies in the proof that the many hundreds of man-years of system design and development leading to how Android works is just all nonsense.

http://www.vogella.com/tutorials/AndroidIntent/article.html

https://developer.android.com/tools/debugging/debugging-memory.html

https://developer.android.com/training/articles/memory.html

And after you've digested that, discover that Android already has a very sophisticated task killer whose collective developers make the creators of snake oil apps appear to be the brain damaged monkeys that they are -

http://ajqi.com/android-memory-management-and-its-effects-on-multi-tasking/

But if you want to believe that Battery Doctor is killing 20 apps every time you launch your camera, great. Run it. Let it screw with the entire operating system. Why not.

And the next time you believe what the snake oil tells you, just remember that you were warned -

That crap is like drugs. The more you use it, the more you need to.

All the while being convinced that it's a good thing.

Oddly, we don't download and use task killers on desktop Linux. Somehow, we all believe that the operating system works.

But not when you put it on a phone. Gosh no. /sarcasm


You want to believe what Battery Doctor is telling you - fine, great. Run it. It's screwing with the operating system and convincing you that the operating system doesn't actually work but if you like it, run it.

edit/ps - I have a habit of oversimplifying intents. Scary alien has a habit of posting and explaining it properly and I appreciate that very much.

Droid-den had a great write-up on this, but evidently, the site is down or le3ky ended it.

But wait, Battery Doctor has increased my battery life so much. Why is it bad if it's working for me? With all seriousness I've tested how long in standby mode my battery lasts with and without the app. My battery lasts twice as long with battery doctor. Yet, everyone says it's bad for your phone, and others say Greenify is better. Could you explain to me, why I would want to uninstall an app that helps really does work? I'm not trying to sound like a jerk or anything, I'm just curoius.

 

[Crashdamage]

In this very thread that you are asking what's wrong with Battery Doctor? there's plenty of information telling you what's wrong with it. And Battery Doctor is particularly bad crapware.

The information is here. You can read and learn. Or not and continue to make your device sick. Your choice.

 

[WolfElemental]

In this very thread that you are asking what's wrong with Battery Doctor? there's plenty of information telling you what's wrong with it. And Battery Doctor is particularly bad crapware.

The information is here. You can read and learn. Or not and continue to make your device sick. Your choice.

Sorry, let me rephrase that. I've read the entire thread, however I have used Battery Doctor for a few months and it has in fact increased my battery life. I have gotten rid of it, but I do notice my battery doesn't last as long as before. I have heard several recommendations to use "Greenify" which "hibernates" apps rather than killing them. What would be your recommendation for me to increase my battery life? Should I just do nothing and deal with it? Is there another "battery saving app" that DOES work? Thank you very much for your time.

 

[EarlyMon]

Sorry, let me rephrase that. I've read the entire thread, however I have used Battery Doctor for a few months and it has in fact increased my battery life. I have gotten rid of it, but I do notice my battery doesn't last as long as before. I have heard several recommendations to use "Greenify" which "hibernates" apps rather than killing them. What would be your recommendation for me to increase my battery life? Should I just do nothing and deal with it? Is there another "battery saving app" that DOES work? Thank you very much for your time.

If your phone is suffering from bad malware (edit - I meant bloatware here although the one is like the other lol) or corrupted data (causing other processes to go bad) then you need to look at dealing with those sorts of things at the source.

Many of us have been in your shoes - me included.

No question about it - once those sorts of things are taken care of, you'll lose the battery "booster" and find your battery improve even more.

No doubt in my mind whatsoever.

What phone do have, is it a carrier model, which carrier?

 

[WolfElemental]

If your phone is suffering from bad malware or corrupted data (causing other processes to go bad) then you need to look at dealing with those sorts of things at the source.

Many of us have been in your shoes - me included.

No question about it - once those sorts of things are taken care of, you'll lose the battery "booster" and find your battery improve even more.

No doubt in my mind whatsoever.

What phone do have, is it a carrier model, which carrier?

I have an LG Ultimate 2, which is essentially a LG Optimus L70, my carrier is Tracfone, (I use a texting app over wifi since I don't have unlimited texting) I don't believe O suffer from Malware. Although Avast is just decent. I use a VPN service, so I'm not worried too much about malware with the combination.

 

[EarlyMon]

This is what I get for taking a phone call while posting -

Where I said malware, please substitute bloatware.

What battery monitors do you have installed?

What's eating power when Battery Doctor is disabled?

(Battery Doctor doesn't count.)

 

[WolfElemental]

This is what I get for taking a phone call while posting -

Where I said malware, please substitute bloatware.

What battery monitors do you have installed?

What's eating power when Battery Doctor is disabled?

(Battery Doctor doesn't count.)

I have Greenify, I just recently uninstalled Battery Doctor. I can reinstall it if you'd like so I could tell you.

 

[EarlyMon]

I have Greenify, I just recently uninstalled Battery Doctor. I can reinstall it if you'd like so I could tell you.

Not necessary, let's go from here.

Here's how I'd make the first approach -

You want a monitor that can show power vs time, with separations for screen on and awake conditions.

You may have one built in to your phone under main settings, power, history or the like.

It'll look something like this if you have it built-in -



Here's a zoomed view so we can begin discussing cases -



Notice around 3 this afternoon, my screen was off, the phone was only intermittently awake to service my syncing schedule and power draw was minimal.

From 4 to 6 pm my screen was off but my phone was awake and power was being eaten right up.

That's when I was watching the Great Escape on Netflix through my Chromecast - the Netflix app sucks so I can expect that behavior. I can plug in whenever I want so I don't care.

Had that same trending happened around 3 when my screen was off and not using an app like Netflix, that would have been FAR from ok.

So, without using Greenify either, set aside a time to get a graph kind of like like that.

Best would be an hour of screen on doing what you do, followed by an hour of screen off where you'd expect it to do nothing - and see if it's staying awake when it ought not.

If your phone doesn't have a graphic like that available, GSam Battery Monitor has one.

You can use GSam or System Panel to check and drill into process details. From the thread you know that System Panel may be better for that part.

But if you haven't already, start there - get a graphical view of the basic hibernation performance first. I go that way because a picture is worth a thousand words.

 

[WolfElemental]

Not necessary, let's go from here.

Here's how I'd make the first approach -

You want a monitor that can show power vs time, with separations for screen on and awake conditions.

You may have one built in to your phone under main settings, power, history or the like.

It'll look something like this if you have it built-in -

View attachment 88771

Here's a zoomed view so we can begin discussing cases -

View attachment 88772

Notice around 3 this afternoon, my screen was off, the phone was only intermittently awake to service my syncing schedule and power draw was minimal.

From 4 to 6 pm my screen was off but my phone was awake and power was being eaten right up.

That's when I was watching the Great Escape on Netflix through my Chromecast - the Netflix app sucks so I can expect that behavior. I can plug in whenever I want so I don't care.

Had that same trending happened around 3 when my screen was off and not using an app like Netflix, that would have been FAR from ok.

So, without using Greenify either, set aside a time to get a graph kind of like like that.

Best would be an hour of screen on doing what you do, followed by an hour of screen off where you'd expect it to do nothing - and see if it's staying awake when it ought not.

If your phone doesn't have a graphic like that available, GSam Battery Monitor has one.

You can use GSam or System Panel to check and drill into process details. From the thread you know that System Panel may be better for that part.

But if you haven't already, start there - get a graphical view of the basic hibernation performance first. I go that way because a picture is worth a thousand words.

I only have this-

 

[EarlyMon]

Check out "GSam Battery Monitor"

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gsamlabs.bbm

Same graph as above with GSam, go to graph icon lower left, other tab, landscape for best view -

 

[WolfElemental]

Check out "GSam Battery Monitor"

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gsamlabs.bbm

Same graph as above with GSam, go to graph icon lower left, other tab, landscape for best view -

View attachment 88774

Would you mind if we continued to talk tomorrow? I'm awfully tired, goodnight.

 

[WolfElemental]

Check out "GSam Battery Monitor"

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.gsamlabs.bbm

Same graph as above with GSam, go to graph icon lower left, other tab, landscape for best view -

View attachment 88774

When I have the screen off, should I close all of the apps that are running with the task manager, or let them keep being open? Also, when you say "doing my thing" What exactly do you mean? Shall I watch some videos on YouTube, or is that too extreme? What battery percentage should I have when I do this "test" or does that not matter? {Edit} My device is non rooted, if that matters.

 

[EarlyMon]

When I have the screen off, should I close all of the apps that are running with the task manager, or let them keep being open? Also, when you say "doing my thing" What exactly do you mean? Shall I watch some videos on YouTube, or is that too extreme? What battery percentage should I have when I do this "test" or does that not matter? {Edit} My device is non rooted, if that matters.

By "do your thing" I mean go ahead and use it the way you normally would want to do. So if that's checking out some youtubes, visiting a favorite site, reading some news, a game - go ahead and do your thing. Just be you, don't worry about it being a test.

It doesn't matter what the starting percentage is so long as you know the percentage and/or start time. I just write it down if I don't feel like bothering to start at 100%. Obviously, just stay away from the low numbers so you don't run out of juice before you get results.

When you've got that noted, do your thing for a hour or so, then tap the power to go screen off for an hour or so, don't kill any tasks, don't even pay attention to them. When ready, back on, do your same or different thing for little while, then go for GSam Battery Monitor graph - other tab - and sideways like mine.