Regarding Scientology...

[OutofDate1980]

Were you a Boy Scout/Cub Scout? Lots of reasons gay people are not allowed in the Scouts. I think all private groups like the Scouts should be allowed to determine who should be allowed in.

No problem, but they should not get any tax exemption.

Even Romney stated in 1994 Boy Scouts should be open to all,

 

[kool kat2]

Were you a Boy Scout/Cub Scout? Lots of reasons gay people are not allowed in the Scouts. I think all private groups like the Scouts should be allowed to determine who should be allowed in.

I was neither. Where i work we have eagle scouts come in every year to work on a project to improve out shelter. They are polite, do a good job, and have fun. I don't see how throwing a gay person in the mix would jeopardize that, unless a scout has been fed the hate at home, in wich case it should be part of being a scout of any kind to learn tolerance and acceptance.

You say there are reasons, but are any valid? I dont see homophobia being a good reason.

Unfortunately i agree that private organizations should pick and choose. That doesn't make it right though.

Next up, Boy scouts of America no longer accepting gingers in the organization. It is their right and they have valid reasons.

 

[OutofDate1980]

Get dirt on your opponent, then have a friendly private chat. Can't think Scientology invented this tactic.

Scientology's Puzzling Journey From Tax Rebel to Tax Exempt - New York Times

"*Scientology's lawyers hired private investigators to dig into the private lives of I.R.S. officials and to conduct surveillance operations to uncover potential vulnerabilities, according to interviews and documents. One investigator said he had interviewed tenants in buildings owned by three I.R.S. officials, looking for housing code violations. He also said he had taken documents from an I.R.S. conference and sent them to church officials and created a phony news bureau in Washington to gather information on church critics. The church also financed an organization of I.R.S. whistle-blowers that attacked the agency publicly.

*The decision to negotiate with the church came after Fred T. Goldberg Jr., the Commissioner of the Internal Revenue Service at the time, had an unusual meeting with Mr. Miscavige in 1991. Scientology's own version of what occurred offers a remarkable account of how the church leader walked into I.R.S. headquarters without an appointment and got in to see Mr. Goldberg, the nation's top tax official. Mr. Miscavige offered to call a halt to Scientology's suits against the I.R.S. in exchange for tax exemptions."

 

[Bob Maxey]

I was neither. Where i work we have eagle scouts come in every year to work on a project to improve out shelter. They are polite, do a good job, and have fun. I don't see how throwing a gay person in the mix would jeopardize that, unless a scout has been fed the hate at home, in wich case it should be part of being a scout of any kind to learn tolerance and acceptance.

You say there are reasons, but are any valid? I dont see homophobia being a good reason.

Unfortunately i agree that private organizations should pick and choose. That doesn't make it right though.

Next up, Boy scouts of America no longer accepting gingers in the organization. It is their right and they have valid reasons.

On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

 

[kool kat2]

On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

Since you didn't exactly answer anything, im going to assume we're going with the God thing. Correct ?

 

[Bob Maxey]

Since you didn't exactly answer anything, im going to assume we're going with the God thing. Correct ?

No, just pointing out why the scouts do not want gay members. I say they have that right. Not everyone should have every right to join every group.

 

[kool kat2]

No, just pointing out why the scouts do not want gay members. I say they have that right. Not everyone should have every right to join every group.

See, you should have just said so. But what you were pointing out was the line about God, was it not? If not, i don't see any other line....... unless the last line is what you're referring to. I doubt it was referring to sexual orientation though.



And i agree that singling out a group of people is within the rights of a private organization. If people support it, it is because they believe in what the organization does and stands for. Once people stop supporting them, that may make them budge. I dont see many people doing that.

 

[Bob Maxey]

See, you should have just said so. But what you were pointing out was the line about God, was it not? If not, i don't see any other line....... unless the last line is what you're referring to. I doubt it was referring to sexual orientation though.



And i agree that singling out a group of people is within the rights of a private organization. If people support it, it is because they believe in what the organization does and stands for. Once people stop supporting them, that may make them budge. I dont see many people doing that.

there is a deeply held belief that homosexuality is against God's wishes. You are the one bringing up God; I only posted the motto.

You simply cannot discriminate and stay out of court. This is wrong in my opinion. Private groups should dictate who gets in, period.

 

[kool kat2]

there is a deeply held belief that homosexuality is against God's wishes. You are the one bringing up God; I only posted the motto.
.

You posted the motto in response to me asking what resons there were to not allow gays in the boy scouts. I am simply asking if that was the reason.

And i am not a scout so i wouldn't know about the meaning of it. For all i know, the word god in there could be as significant as in the pledge of allegiance.

 

[Gmash]

Get dirt on your opponent, then have a friendly private chat. Can't think Scientology invented this tactic.

Scientology's Puzzling Journey From Tax Rebel to Tax Exempt - New York Times

"*Scientology's lawyers hired private investigators to dig into the private lives of I.R.S. officials and to conduct surveillance operations to uncover potential vulnerabilities, according to interviews and documents. One investigator said he had interviewed tenants in buildings owned by three I.R.S. officials, looking for housing code violations. He also said he had taken documents from an I.R.S. conference and sent them to church officials and created a phony news bureau in Washington to gather information on church critics. The church also financed an organization of I.R.S. whistle-blowers that attacked the agency publicly.

*The decision to negotiate with the church came after Fred T. Goldberg Jr., the Commissioner of the Internal Revenue Service at the time, had an unusual meeting with Mr. Miscavige in 1991. Scientology's own version of what occurred offers a remarkable account of how the church leader walked into I.R.S. headquarters without an appointment and got in to see Mr. Goldberg, the nation's top tax official. Mr. Miscavige offered to call a halt to Scientology's suits against the I.R.S. in exchange for tax exemptions."

Scientology is a truly ruthless organization. They will do anything they can to ruin the life of anybody who speaks out against them, and they have the money to back it up.

 

[Gmash]

I tend to listen to those who knew L. Ron. Like Harlen Ellison. They were friends and he also reports the reason LRH created Scientology was to hook the rubes and fools. And Ellison would likely agree with Mr. Eshbach. Not really a secret, but no scientologist will discuss what they already know about the church's founder.

Harlen mentioned that LRH was a good writer and he used multiple typewriters and paper on rolls to write several pieces at the same time. Ron decided to use paper on rolls because he thought it took too much time to change paper.

I doubt the rich and famous can leave Scientology even if they wanted to leave. My theory is Tom Cruise is scared of scientologists and their leadership and what they might do. TC has power in Hollywood, but even he cant spend the rest of his life looking over his shoulder for nut bars with weapons.

Stay the heck away from scientology is my only advice.

I actually agree with Bob Maxey on something? What in the name of Xenu is going on here?:hmmmm2::questionmark: lol

 

[OutofDate1980]

Scientology is a truly ruthless organization. They will do anything they can to ruin the life of anybody who speaks out against them, and they have the money to back it up.

Don't believe Scientology has a monopoly on these tactics, but to be effective, one must "have the money to back it up".

 

[OutofDate1980]

there is a deeply held belief that homosexuality is against God's wishes. You are the one bringing up God; I only posted the motto.

You simply cannot discriminate and stay out of court. This is wrong in my opinion. Private groups should dictate who gets in, period.

Depends on the God if homosexuality is against God's wishes. I also understand divorce is against some Gods wishes. Does the BSA exclude them also ?

Anyway, if BSA was not tax exempt, then it would be a purely private matter.

 

[Bob Maxey]

I actually agree with Bob Maxey on something? What in the name of Xenu is going on here?:hmmmm2::questionmark: lol

Scientology is a fraud. Their Auditing and associated costs are designed to earn the "church" some big money. LRH was a science fiction writer who decided to create a fake religion. This is not a guess or a pile of BS; it is from is own words and comments he made to those who knew him.

Scientologists avoid mentioning this but facts are facts.

 

[OutofDate1980]

... but all religions have an oddity or two in their early history.

What is important is not how the Mormon Church started out, but where they are now. Same as the Catholic Church. Delve into their early history and you will learn how brutal an organized group can be. ...

Scientology is a fraud. ...

There are those that state court records prove the Smith, the founder of LDS, was arrested in New York in 1826 for being a con artist and was killed by relatives of those women he attempted to induce into polygamy.

Many religions have a history that is not respectable to those not of the faith, some would call the LDS, Catholic, etc. a fraud.

It appears your point is that Scientology is a more recent fraud. Maybe age will give it more respectability and it will do some PR work such as charities.

 

[ElasticNinja]

Were you a Boy Scout/Cub Scout? Lots of reasons gay people are not allowed in the Scouts. I think all private groups like the Scouts should be allowed to determine who should be allowed in.

It would seem to me that the BSA is a lot more religious and nationalist than the rest of international scouting.

Its awfully backward but this seems to not be helped by its backers like the Mormons and other dodgy religious organisations. Clearly an organisation in need of reform, I came across this issue on r/soccer and was glad to see MLS cut all ties with them once they reaffirmed their homophobic stance.

Religion is a fairly meaningless part of scouting elsewhere, but it is there certainly, but religious affiliations have been heavily curtailed. Females are banned either, its really based on if you have a female leader available. Any other things like Scouts you can send your kids too?

 

[Snow_Fox]

From where I sit more or less all religion is dangerous be it Scientology or Christianity.

No matter what religion you worship you run into this delimma where you are accepting supernatural explanations for scientific answers which is really not a healthy thing to do.

In the case of Christianity alone you have

1 timothy 2:12 <-Sexism
Deuteronomy 22:28-29 <- more sexism
Exodus 21:20-21 <- straight up says you can beat slaves as much as you want as long as they don't die within a day or two.

I don't support scientology but, let's be real here.. religion as a whole says some whacky crap that people selectively listen to as an "easy out" for morality.

 

[A.Nonymous]

The Boy Scouts also pretty blatantly discriminate on the basis on sex.

 

[Bob Maxey]

The Boy Scouts also pretty blatantly discriminate on the basis on sex.

So why would you want your little girl to join the Boy Scouts? Ever hear of the Girl Scouts?

Some groups should be allowed to discriminate.

 

[ElasticNinja]

So why would you want your little girl to join the Boy Scouts? Ever hear of the Girl Scouts?

Some groups should be allowed to discriminate.

Its hard to argue with this one, what with girl guides, and single sex schools. That said, mixed scouting is the norm and makes perfect sense. However the BSA is content to be left in the 1880's.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Its hard to argue with this one, what with girl guides, and single sex schools. That said, mixed scouting is the norm and makes perfect sense. However the BSA is content to be left in the 1880's.

So avoid the Boy Scouts altogether. If you do not like the way an organization operates or their values are not yours, do not let your kid join. I admire the BS but they are likely not the only group available for kids.

I sometimes feel that people like to protest against something they have no intentions of joining just because they want to ruin it for everyone else.

I am a member of a club that does not let certain types of people join. Those that wanted to join could not afford the tab and they would find few friends among the membership.

Still, one person sued to become a member when she had perhaps a dozen women's clubs she could have joined. She found zero friends, she broke several cardinal rules and she raised all manner of hell.

 

[OutofDate1980]

... I am a member of a club that does not let certain types of people join. Those that wanted to join could not afford the tab and they would find few friends among the membership. ...

Fine, but don't expect the rest of us to pick up the tab. Just like the BSA, don't expect the rest of us to give you tax exemption because they do "not let certain types of people join." Pull your own weight.

 

[OutofDate1980]

... I'll give you that some of the beliefs of Joseph Smith were rather odd, but all religions have an oddity or two in their early history. ...

Maybe Smith was half-right, he just mistakenly translated "polyandry" for "polygamy".

Multiple husbands serve as child support and life insurance in some cultures

"Marrying multiple husbands at the same time, or polyandry, creates a safety net for women in some cultures, according to a recent study by a University of Missouri researcher."

 

[Bob Maxey]

No problem, but they should not get any tax exemption.

Even Romney stated in 1994 Boy Scouts should be open to all,

 

[Bob Maxey]

Its hard to argue with this one, what with girl guides, and single sex schools. That said, mixed scouting is the norm and makes perfect sense. However the BSA is content to be left in the 1880's.

In this politically correct world we live in, lots of people would love to discriminate against this group or that group. Lots of talking heads, luminaries, Hollywood types, musicians and corporations both large and small, are forced to hire and/or accept certain types of people.

They would rather avoid some types but they can't because they are forced to do so. We are not living in a world where everyone is accepted; we live in a world where we want to look good to others and avoid lawsuits.