Response from ATT's "Executive Response Team" over FCC GPS Complaint


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  1. thindery

    thindery Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Back when we all found out about the bad gps on this phone there was talk to file a complaint against att for false advertising of gps capabilities with the Captivate. Well, I was pissed and went ahead and filed the complaint. I received a letter in the mail a few weeks ago that the FCC had received the complaint.

    Today, I received a response from ATT in my inbox. Here it is word for word:

     

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  2. DT

    DT Well-Known Member

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    Nice job!
     
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  3. tnayrbj

    tnayrbj Member

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    Thank you for the info.

    I hope we get this fixed soon, I would like to get Froyo and this so I can start modifying my new Android phone.
     
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  4. George0211

    George0211 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks a lot dude. Sounds very promising that more info is coming next week.
     
  5. getDange

    getDange Well-Known Member

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    OP is it me, or is the language of that letter not clean American English?

    In any case, I believe this "executive response team" member just googled "samsung galaxy s gps", and hacked together a reply to you using old info.

    There is absolutely nothing new here. This did not deserve a new thread (nothing personal, OP). And I would even question the authority of this guy - if the fix release is in the next 1-2.5 weeks, why would he have to call Samsung? Would not AT&T know like a month in advance of any plans from Samsung?

    The software fix is a core GPS driver, right? Installing it would require some kind of a root access, so I would think it would be pushed to phones from AT&T, not a user install. This all sounds fishy.
     
  6. weezyweazel

    weezyweazel Well-Known Member

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    Way to be proactive! The words "gentleman" and "scholar" come to mind.


     
  7. s.m.knipe

    s.m.knipe Well-Known Member

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    Notice that it says "how to download the updates," sounds like a wired update and not OTA. That's fine for everyone with Windows who can run KIES, but I run Ubuntu and can't get KIES to run in WINE. Guess I'm screwed then, thanks AT&T!
     
  8. getDange

    getDange Well-Known Member

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    that is exactly why I am saying it will be an over the air push update, not a USB update. AT&T should want a global update for all it customers, that fixes everything. They would not want those 5% that are "hackers" install the fix via semi official Kies and be happy, while the other 95% not only keep calling AT&T re the GPS issue but also start calling re "why my kies is not working"
     
  9. weezyweazel

    weezyweazel Well-Known Member

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    Is there a dedicated/sticky GPS thread? I find the new thread warranted if not, interesting to me anyway...
     
  10. Cuerbo

    Cuerbo Well-Known Member

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    Can we get details as to how you exactly filed this complaint? I would like to file one of my own in case October rolls around and I need to head back to AT&T to return my phone, hope I never get to that but all options are on the table.

    With that said, that reply seems fishy and as I've stated before in the forum, there's poor communication between AT&T and Samsung. I would love to know what's the return rate for the Captivate, it has to be on the high side if you ask me. As for those posting to my GPS thread yesterday saying that Froyo and the GPS were going to be bundled, this seems to contradict those claims.

    I also went ahead today and looked around Twitter and the web looking for updates. Most of the Twitter posts for GalaxySsupport seem to be done by non-Samsung folks, so most of it I would say is word of mouth. Under the same Twitter profile you can find several replies for Froyo and most state that there's no ETA for it nor do they even mention it is being tested.

    This adds to my frustration with Samsung, as I have stated before, you can't believe a word they say. I should have learned my lesson after running into problems with my Blu Ray player.
     
  11. thindery

    thindery Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    The english sounds fine to me. He received my information from the fcc.gov website. With such a serious issue I highly doubt Att would outsource to India.

    The guy just typed it up and sent it. He didn't use some cookie cutter response that went through 20 people of editing before being a generic response. Aditionally, in his signature line are 3 numbers: a direct line, a cell phone line, and a fax line. All of them have the 425 area code which is in Washington State. The last 2 numbers of the fax and direct line are about 20 numbers off, indicative of an office setup with multiple lines - all in sequential order.

    Regarding new information, I never heard anywhere from Samsung saying this was a software issue in particular. This gentleman did confirm that through his email.

    Regarding posting a new thread... I didn't see any other FCC response threads. It sounded like it needed to be a new thread.
     
  12. thindery

    thindery Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    When I did it originally it was over at this xda post:

    Complaint form for FCC/ AT&T Wireless - xda-developers
     
  13. getDange

    getDange Well-Known Member

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    Thindery - I am a bit frustrated, so nothing personal, I apologize :)
    Regarding the language, I work in a small private company that does financial consulting. I strongly believe if anyone here typed up such badly worded internal text that person would be let go :) All our external communication is always impeccably worded, and in a similar case would probably go through a lawyer review.
     
  14. weezyweazel

    weezyweazel Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure ANYONE in my company would survive the cut if we instituted those kind of standards! :eek:
     
  15. s.m.knipe

    s.m.knipe Well-Known Member

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    I se your point from AT&T's point of view, but in Android OTA's pop up a dialogue window, and you download it or not, and the instructions are right there, there is no need for them to post instructions for how to download, there are two options now or later. The wording is unnecessary unless it is more complicated than pushing a button on a pop up menu on the phone's screen. Also, no other manufacturer has felt the need to post instructions, and all other downloads have been OTA...
     
  16. George0211

    George0211 Well-Known Member

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    The fact that GPS update would be an OTA update is just a speculation by people here. There was never any kind of official word from AT&T nor Samsung that this would be an OTA update. Since the very beginning when Samsung first admitted that GPS was a problem, they said they will post instructions on how to download it.
     
  17. getDange

    getDange Well-Known Member

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    S.M.Knipe what you are describing is an OTA update that is pushed by wireless service provider. Samsung will never have access to push something over the air using AT&T networks. In turn, when something is pushed by the carrier to customers, the carrier becomes responsible for the outcome. So the manufacturer issues a firmware fix, the wireless carrier reviews and tests it, then tests the distribution mechanism. Then it is released to some customer in small test batches. Then the the rest of the customers get the release.
    According to that reply from ATT, they are not even in possession of the ready firmware yet. It is still being worked on at Samsung. I was simply saying that this meant we were either another month away from the update being pushed out (time for AT&T to test the update and test the OTA process), or the f/w will be released as a download on samsung web site, in which case you have to install it via USB using host PC software (that would basically "root" the phone, replace the drivers, and unroot the phone). Given that there are complaints even in this forum from people who do not know how to connect the Captivate to computer, this latter update path is really troublesome from AT&T point of view.
     
  18. alphadog00

    alphadog00 Well-Known Member

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    Another big takeaway is AT&T saying it is not a carrier issue or related to just AT&T phones. This means that there is no FCC relief in the future.
     
  19. alphadog00

    alphadog00 Well-Known Member

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    When Motorola Android phones get updates, Motorola pushes it out over the carrier network. The carrier does test it and approve it, and the first release is limited (1st 1000 users). But, it is the manufacturer that pushes the update on behalf of the carrier.

    As to who is ultimately responsible if something goes wrong - who knows. I have not seen the legal papers that indemnify who, so any statements on this are speculation.
     
  20. thindery

    thindery Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Maybe it's the education I received at a four year public state university, but I am not seeing anything in the email from the guy that would warrant termination on Att's behalf. Sure he could have thrown in some commas here and there, but man give it a break. Your attempt to belittle this guy and his response is pushing it.

    Further investigation finds this center:

    http://eyecorp.com/uploads/Redmond_Town_Center_11.pdf

    Redmond, WA has the 425 area code in his email. This Town Center houses att employees:

     
  21. maerlim

    maerlim Well-Known Member

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    Those kind of standards only work in "small private companies". I think if I were under those kind of standards, I'd quit before they could fire me. The wording in the reply from AT&T is professional, and perfect spelling and grammar.

    Anyway, to the OP, it's been known for a long time that Samsung was working on a software update for release in September. Nobody (in their right mind) thinks "in September" means "September 1st", so logically we can expect to hear more in mid-September about a roll-out in late September. Filing FCC complaints is a complete waste of your time, the FCC's time, Samsung's time, and AT&T's time. In fact, I'm pretty sure you wasted more total man hours of work with your complaint than you've spent waiting for your Captivate to lock onto a GPS. Good for you. Hope it makes you feel better.

    Patience is a virtue, folks.
     
  22. thindery

    thindery Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    What is with all the dogging? I'm sharing the first official personal response I received from either At&t or Samsung. Granted the information was basically stuff we already knew, I shared it anyways because I felt it was useful and a bit interesting that I actually got a response. And judging by the handful of thanks I have received, many others have appreciated the information as well.

    As for the wasted man hours, how is it a waste? I utilized a tool that the government has set up for consumers. At&t utlized their department that is specifically setup for this kind of stuff. It took me a whole 30 seconds to fill out the form. If anything I think I may have just saved a few jobs for this economy.. :D
     
  23. alphadog00

    alphadog00 Well-Known Member

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    I appreciate the information, but there have been previous updates through other channels that stated the same thing:

    Twitter - @GalaxySsupport

    Samsung is testing software to optimize GPS on Galaxy S phones. Look for updates in September. Details & download instructions to follow. 4:30 PM Aug 13th via CoTweet
     
  24. s.m.knipe

    s.m.knipe Well-Known Member

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    I see your point, but I know the difference between OTA and a wired download. I have been around Android since the days of the G1, and updates have never been wired before for Android (excepting hacks and grabbing the download early), even though that is what we expected when the G1 launched. About a month after the G1 launched, HTC had a patch that came out for the camera and a few other things- it was coming from the manufacturer for a manufacturer issue- and it was sent OTA by T-mobile. As stated above, Motorola sends out manufacturer-based updates OTA. Every single other OTA (and update for that matter) for Android has followed this pattern: The manufacturer posts the update file, usually on Google's servers but not always, then works with the carrier(s) to push a notification to the device. The notification comes up (not in the pane but as a separate pop-up dialog box) and has two options: download now- which connects the phone to the posted download url, downloads the file, applies it, and reboots a couple of times- or download later- which resumes back to whatever you were doing, and when you are ready to download it you select "software update" from the settings menu and download it just like above. There is no need to "post instructions... how to download," as it is automagic and just pops up on your phone and you choose whether now or later. With any of the previous updates on the G1 and N1 T-mobile nor HTC nor even Google put up instructions for how to download, as none were needed. This is the outlier, the oddball case, and it worries me. On a side note, once someone gets the notification, they can run a program called "logcat" and grab the log and find the url so everyone can type in the address in the browser and get the download. This is how updates have always worked on Android.
    I am particularly suspicious about this because at the recent IFA event at one of the Q&A sessions there were hints that AT&T will not be doing OTA updates for Android (the most reliable of those was from Androidandme on Sept. 3rd, and I have messaged them asking for clarification on why they tweeted and posted that), which fits the language posted here by the AT&T rep, tweets by Samsung's service PR people, and other Samsung replies. Secondly, as I stated above, I don't run Windows (and haven't since 2006) and just have two Macs and two Ubuntu boxes- so a KIES download would isolate people like myself- this is your point I believe for why it doesn't make sense for AT&T to go about it this way, which I agree with.
    But much of the language that has been thrown around (i.e. needing to post instructions) logically suggest that this is more complicated than an OTA, and therefore the alternative option- a wired download.

    P.S. AT&T has not confirmed or denied those claims about no Android OTA's, I have asked through their online chat, email, customer service twitter, and facebook page, and the response is always "AT&T has not announced that." This is a statement that can go either way, and I look for it to go towards the no OTA side because- again logically- if it were false, why not deny it directly (it would boost your consumer's image of you because OTA updates are so much easier than the wired ones I had on my blackberrys), but if it were true, you would want to keep it vague until you can't any longer.

    P.S.S On another side note, as has been stated before, a direct from manufacturer wired download would be better in some ways because logically it would not have all of the bloatware, but to be put on AT&T phones I am sure it has to meet AT&T standards, and so will still be ridden with data-consuming, process-eating malware. AT&T wouldn't let it slip by that easily, OTA or not they will have their hand in it, as unlike the N1 this is one of their phones.
     
  25. RavenFox

    RavenFox VIP Member VIP Member

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    Now this a GPS topic worthy of it's own thread. Well done OP and thank you. I hope everyone who are new and old read this and wait for the update. From FCC to AT&T legal team to Samsung you can't get anymore official than that.
    I spoke to a very cool mod about this so I'm not sure.:)
     

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