Rogers Dream 1.6 Update

[Andy2010]

Mjschmidt, do you think you can find some of these Canadian tech writers to brag about Rogers let down on their android customers on donut update and how incompetent they are handling the android issue?

Btw, check this person out she works for Rogers and answers questions on behalf of Rogers.
http://twitter.com/RogersMary

and

http://twitter.com/RogersHelps

 

[Andy2010]

I decided to call HTC to further the investigation. The guy from HTC that i spoke to told me that there's is a process of getting the firmware update. Rogers has to pay HTC and then approve the firmware update before HTC release it to Rogers. What he has told me was rather shocking. He said he has been working for HTC for many yrs and not even once Rogers gets and update from HTC for the windows mobile device and why should android get it too. The guy from HTC also told me that the reason why T-Mobile and the rest of their carrier gets their update sooner is because their ROM are least customised and update can come directly from Google. But because Rogers customised their rom, firmware modification is required.

 

[mjschmidt]

Jesse Hirsh | Broadcaster, Speaker, Researcher and Strategist > This is the web site for Jesse Hirsh, a tech columnist for CBC. I sent him a tweet to see if he is interested in the story. I know he's interested in Android because he was looking for demo phones to test just before they came out.

Latest News - MobileInCanada - Cellphones News, Review, Unlock, Video ( Bell, Fido, Koodo, Rogers, Telus, Virgin) > This is a Canadian cell phone blog.

Cell Phones Etc. | Reviews & Comparisons of Cellphones & Plans > Another Canadian cell phone blog.

Android in Canada - Tips, Tricks, and News for Canadian Android Users > A Canadian Android blog

Topic : Technology - thestar.com > The Star's technology section, haven't been able to find a specific contact yet.

 

[mjschmidt]

Okay, I went to the link supplied by Andy2010 above for Rogers. They recommend starting by contacting Customer Service and escalating from there. To make sure they can't accuse me of not following their process, I have started with "Step 1", emailing customer support. When I invariably receive their canned response (ie. lies) I will escalate to Step 2 with my emails as proof.

I encourage all Rogers Android users to do the same.

Here is my email:

I have a Rogers HTC Magic Android phone. So far I am VERY disappointed with the level of support for Android phone users by Rogers.

I would like to know when Rogers will resolve the following two Android phone issues (especially since Rogers is adding more Android phones to their lineup):

1. When will Android 1.6 update be released by Rogers to Android customers? According to HTC and Google, this is _Rogers'_ responsibility. I have already been told it would be late Oct or early Nov, and that didn't happen. I want a real answer.

2. When will Rogers Android customers have access to paid apps in the Android MarketPlace? The usefulness of Android phones is severely limited by this restriction to free apps only.

I am not alone in this. There are many other Rogers Android customers voicing their displeasure on Android forums online. Given that Rogers is adding more Android phones to their lineup, and given that Rrogers' competitors (Bell and Telus) are now also adding Android phones, it is absolutely shameful that Rogers won't give us the proper support our phones need, or honest answers about Rogers' plan for Android.

If Rogers does not provide proper support and real answers soon, I will have to consider paying the fee to terminate my contract so I can take my business elsewhere.

Thank you,

Michael Schmidt
Disgruntled Android phone owner

 

[Mike N]

I'm with ya. I have an HTC Magic, chained to Android 1.5, with Rogers in Canada.

I got the phone 2 months ago, thinking it would actually be supported by Rogers. Just makes sense that since Rogers took on Android, they'd be willing to support it.

Have been on the phone twice today asking when and how they will be pushing the update to 1.6. The answer I got is "We just had a meeting with HTC a couple of days ago, but I don't know, I don't think we're going to."

It looks to me like I have a phone that Rogers is not going to support. I have a contract and I signed this contract under the mistaken(?) impression that Rogers was actually going to support this phone. If this is true I have a phone that will be very limited in a short time, when apps are built for future OS's that are not compatible with 1.5. As it stands right now, I am already limited by only having access to free apps built by teenagers in their basements.

By choosing Android over the Iphone I was expecting to be riding along on a constantly developing wave that will take over the cellphone world. As it stands I am being chained down to what I see as a beta OS for the next three years (my contract).
Seriously, as the OS develops how useable is this phone going to be in 1 year? Two? Three?

So, here's my plan:

Dear Rogers,
You refuse to support my phone. You can have your phone back.
I am not paying my bill and I will not be paying your contract cancellation fee.

I am totally prepared to stop paying my bill. Does anybody have any other suggestions?

 

[mjschmidt]

Mike N: I think we need to get more info first. Considering how often I've heard conflicting info from Rogers customer service and tech support, until we hear something official from management I think we should just keep pestering them (and maybe even embarrassing them?) until they give us an answer.

If it turns out that it's true about not supporting anything above 1.5, then I will certainly be calling them to cancel my contract and take my business elsewhere.

I strongly urge everyone on Rogers to go to the customer service link posted above and go through the steps listed like I have started to do. As long as we follow that process they can't ignore us or dismiss us for not "jumping through their hoops", and the more of us that contact them, the more urgent they might realize it is.

We can take is all the way through the process until we get an official answer.

I also suggest we all start talking about this in as many fora as possible, and not just Android fora, but regular cell phone fora as well.

Also, before we get too mad at Rogers alone, we should find out about the plans Bell and Telus have for supporting Android as we may be screwed by them too.

In the end, we may be faced with the following:
1. Learn to live with it
2. End contract and get a different phone
3. Root our phones for FREEDOM! (insert Mel Gibson voice here). ;-)

BTW: Has anyone here ever used one of those online petition sites? I haven't, but I was thinking we should start one and get as many people on the net aware of it as possible. Then let the tech media know about it.

 

[Andy2010]

Having people making the complaints to Rogers may get their attention but I seriously don't think a petition will help. What will help is when their problem get published on the media like TV or newspaper. Unless someone can approach the to the TV station and voice out their problem. From what i heard from the guy from HTC, it doesn't sound promising. Since he said that Rogers never get their updates from HTC for their Windows mobile phone customers. He added " I don't see why Android would get one". And Rogers keep bragging about working with HTC putting up the update.

Sometimes I wonder, If a phone company stop supporting a product that they sell, is that a breach of contract? One thing i hate to see is carrier often try to customize their rom but refuse to keep up with the update. Too bad i am not a lawyer, maybe what Rogers is doing is wrong and maybe we can take legal action on them.

 

[Andy2010]

Twitter with RogersMary

nuggie2010

@RogersMary What choice do they have? Can they terminate the contract and return the phone back? or can they exchange for another phone?
less than 5 seconds ago from web in reply to RogersMary
Delete

nuggie2010
@RogersMary I hope so. Lemme ask u a question. What if someone buy something and they like it but their provider doesn't want to support it?
1 minute ago from web in reply to RogersMary

RogersMary
@nuggie2010 Hi Andrew. Thanks for the added information. I'll be sure to pass that along to our team.
6:23 PM Nov 27th from CoTweet in reply to nuggie2010

nuggie2010
@RogersMary Another thing that Rogers need to do is to open up Android Market for Canadian android owners. Currently we can't buy anything.
2:30 PM Nov 27th from web in reply to RogersMary

nuggie2010
@RogersMary He said Rogers has to pay HTC and approve the firmware update.
2:06 PM Nov 27th from web in reply to RogersMary

nuggie2010
@RogersMary For all their HTC product device.
2:05 PM Nov 27th from web in reply to RogersMary

nuggie2010
@RogersMary What he said was rather interesting. He worked for HTC for many yrs and he said "Rogers never once got firmware updated by HTC"
2:05 PM Nov 27th from web in reply to RogersMary

nuggie2010
@RogersMary I just got off the phone with HTC and the guy i spoke to reveal the firmware update process between HTC and Rogers.
2:03 PM Nov 27th from web in reply to RogersMary

nuggie2010
@RogersMary I just got my phone couple of months ago and i hate to see that the firmware i have now is the last one i will ever see.
1:21 PM Nov 27th from web in reply to RogersMary

nuggie2010
@RogersMary I even wrote to HTC and twice they said it's up to Rogers to push out the firmware update and told us to keep pressure Rogers .
1:17 PM Nov 27th from web in reply to RogersMary

nuggie2010
@RogersMary But that's not true. I've been following these update since Oct 1st and even spoke to many of your tech supports.
1:17 PM Nov 27th from web in reply to RogersMary

RogersMary
@nuggie2010 Hi Andrew. We evaluate all new updates HTC makes available to us and will inform customers of updates as applicable.
1:15 PM Nov 27th from CoTweet in reply to nuggie2010

nuggie2010
@RogersMary Can give us any information about android firmware updates?
12:54 PM Nov 27th from web in reply to RogersMary

 

[Andy2010]

Check this out

Dear Rogers: When Will Android Users Get 1.6 and 2.0 Updates? | Android in Canada Blog

 

[mjschmidt]

If any of you are on Twitter, Rogers has the following accounts:

RogersBuzz
RogersHelps
RogersMary

I messaged all three of them with the following:

"I am a Rogers customer 15 years. HTC Magic Want to know when you will provide Android 1.6. users are getting mad, including me."

"I am prepared to pay fee to terminate my contract & my wife's contract if you will not support Android updates. I want answers."

"See this http://androidforums.com/ne... People are mad."

"We are prepared to warn people away from Rogers Android phones."

I urge all Rogers customer who are upset by Rogers lack of support to tweet these Rogers accounts as much as possible. Let them know we aren't going away until they answer us.

 

[Andy2010]

mjschimdt, is there a way i can contact you thru email or messenger?

 

[mjschmidt]

From RogersMary on Twitter in response to my tweets:

"RogersMary
@mjsoctober Hi Michael. I do appreciate your feedback, which I'm forwarding to the team. Stay tuned."

My reply to her:

"@RogersMary Stay tuned for how long? We are getting restless. ETA to an announcement from Rogers? Hours, days, months, years? Upset customer"

I've had no further reply yet.

 

[mjschmidt]

mjschimdt, is there a way i can contact you thru email or messenger?

I sent you a private message.

 

[mjschmidt]

On the phone with Rogers tech support now. asked about update to 1.6.

Was told that they have not "approved" the update for Rogers customers yet. Tech suggested i could DL the 1.6 update from the HTC web site. I asked if this would void my warranty. He put me on hold to check and came back to say that as long as i used the correct update for my phone (ie. didn't use a Droid update for a Magic) then my warranty would be fine.

I asked if he knew when an update might be available, he said he had no idea and that no one there did. I asked to elevate the call and was told that _no one_ there would know.

I asked to be transferred to a customer service rep so i could make a complaint. he put me on hold and when he came back I was told that the ONLY people who MIGHT know were the people in _Marketing_! and that because Rogers is a publicly traded company, no one is marketing would be allowed to tell _anyone_ (not even Rogers customer support or tech support) until it had been announced publicly.

I pointed out that 1.6 had been out since end of Sept, and that 2.0 is already available on some phones, so everyone already knows these updates exist. I asked if he was saying that, even though everyone already knows the updates exist, Rogers refuses to acknowledge whether or not they intend to release an update until "coporate" decides to announce it publicly.

I reminded him that the Rogers web site indicates a system for making a complaint, including elevating a call, so I asked to be transfered to someone who could take my complaint. I am now on hold.

So, even though he says Rogers has every intention of supporting Android, they refuse to tell us how or when they will do anything until someone in coprorate tells marketing to announce it.

 

[mjschmidt]

Update: Spoke with Sherri from the "office of the president". She claims to have spoken with someone in "Tier-2" support, but need to follow up with them and guarantees she will call me back within 2 business days. She does not promise a date for the update, but will try to find out what the intention is for the update (are they working on it, etc).

I indicated we were very upset that other carriers have had this update out for multiple months now, and Rogers is given the appearance of not even bothering. She told me she was definitely going to look in to it because if the other carriers have had it for a while, she feel someone at Rogers must have "dropped the ball" (her words) and she feels Rogers customers should get what they are owed.

Interestingly, she mentioned that when she was talking to "tier-2" support they went to the HTC web site to look up what updates HTC had. Seriously? You're just now looking at the HTC site to see what updates are available?

I also recommended that, accepting that iPhone and Blackberry currently have a bigger market share, if Rogers is going to keep selling _multiple_ Android phones, then they really need to get up to speed on it. I suggested thay pick a few people in technical support and make them all Android experts. That seems to me to be a no-brainer!

I will update again when/if I hear from her.

 

[Andy2010]

There is no 1.6 update from HTC site. Beside the radio is different. It won't work. It's a lie mjschmidt.

On the phone with Rogers tech support now. asked about update to 1.6.

Was told that they have not "approved" the update for Rogers customers yet. Tech suggested i could DL the 1.6 update from the HTC web site. I asked if this would void my warranty. He put me on hold to check and came back to say that as long as i used the correct update for my phone (ie. didn't use a Droid update for a Magic) then my warranty would be fine.

I asked if he knew when an update might be available, he said he had no idea and that no one there did. I asked to elevate the call and was told that _no one_ there would know.

I asked to be transferred to a customer service rep so i could make a complaint. he put me on hold and when he came back I was told that the ONLY people who MIGHT know were the people in _Marketing_! and that because Rogers is a publicly traded company, no one is marketing would be allowed to tell _anyone_ (not even Rogers customer support or tech support) until it had been announced publicly.

I pointed out that 1.6 had been out since end of Sept, and that 2.0 is already available on some phones, so everyone already knows these updates exist. I asked if he was saying that, even though everyone already knows the updates exist, Rogers refuses to acknowledge whether or not they intend to release an update until "coporate" decides to announce it publicly.

I reminded him that the Rogers web site indicates a system for making a complaint, including elevating a call, so I asked to be transfered to someone who could take my complaint. I am now on hold.

So, even though he says Rogers has every intention of supporting Android, they refuse to tell us how or when they will do anything until someone in coprorate tells marketing to announce it.

 

[Andy2010]

I seriously don't see 2.0 is coming but if it does, it will be a blast. I am currently following google xda site and there are ppl trying to port 2.0 to G1. Abit sluggish and the camera and video doesn't work at the moment. I am sure speed can be fine tune. T-mobile at this point won't say they will push out 2.0 to their G1 customers.

 

[PascalS13]

Hey guys,

I just made this account because I wanted to let you know that I was following very closely this thread (many times a day) for updates as I have just bought myself a LG Eve thinking I was buying ''the latest shit''.

Fortunatly, or should I say unfortunatly, I fell on this site while researching what was Android 2.0 (still thinking I had it on my phone) and learned that my LG Eve was stuck on 1.5.

That pisses me right off.

Keep working on those bastards guys. I wish I could help you guys in the process but I have lots of studying to do in this time of year.

Pascal.

 

[moon_walker333]

I just bought an HTC Magic (rogers version) unlocked. Seeing all this is just pissing me off, knowing that we are not getting OS 1.6 or 2.0.

 

[mjschmidt]

moon_walker: no one said we weren't getting it, we said that so far Rogers has not indicated if/when they are supporting it.

As per my messages above, I am waiting for Sherri from the office of the president (apparently) to call e back with info. Let's wait and see what she says, or if she even calls back. If the answer is negative, or I don't hear from her, we will keep pushing the issue until we get a response.

The best thing everyone can do it to email and call customer support to complain. We can not assume that anyone from Rogers is even aware of all the Android blogs and fora where people are voicing their upset. So far, Rogers has appeared pretty clueless about the whole Android thing.

 

[mjschmidt]

So, in case we need any more examples of the bumbling that is Rogers Canada, I received today a reply to the email I sent 11/27 (you can see what I wrote by scrolling back up to my post above of 11/27) asking when we would get Android 1.6, and when we would be able to get _paid_ apps in the MarketPlace.

Below is their response (I have NOT edited it, except removing the call reference number). Basically, according to this tech, we can apparently download Android 1.6 from the Rogers tech support web site! Who knew?! But WAIT!!! Apparently the person who replied to my email is not invited to the same tech support meetings as the people with whom I spoke on the phone yesterday who told me that not only was 1.6 not yet available, but that they hadn't even spoken to HTC about it yet!!!

In fact, the only file available from Rogers site for the HTC Magic is the recent security update/bug fix (this one from HTC: http://www.htc.com/ca/SupportDownload.aspx?p_id=270&cat=2&dl_id=653) which is NOT Android 1.6.

As for my question about getting paid apps in the MarketPlace, the tech was kind enough to explain to me what an Open Source OS is, and how it's wonderful for app developers, and that I can purchase apps in the MarketPlace. So, either no one told him/her that paid apps aren't available, or he/she considers "Free" to be a valid "price" to pay.

At any rate, when/if I ever hear from Sherri (from the President's office) again, I will be sure to tell her about this email.

I really hope _someone_ at Rogers sees this thread and realizes just how stupid they look.

Here is the email I received:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
"Thank-you for your email. We strive to provide you with the highest
level of customer support, and hope we can be of assistance in
addressing your questions.

To download the new Android 1.6 software please visit the following link
and select the drop down meun options that are applicable to your phone:

Redirect to the right page

An "open platform," which means that anyone can create applications,
games, or software with no charge to the user or the writer of the
applications. Applications can be bought from the marketplace, similar
to the Apple store.

As part of the Android experience people can stay connected and informed
with Gmail, Google Mail, Google Talk, Google Maps, Google Calendar and
Google Search. Customers who want to use these features must sign up for
/ sign into their Google account.

For additional information please see the link below;

Android Market

For further assistance you may contact Customer Service at
1-888-764-3771, 24/7.

If you require any additional information or services, please do not
hesitate to contact us again by replying to this email, or by visiting
Redirect to the right page. We would be glad to assist you in any manner
possible.

For future email correspondence with respect to this e-mail, please
quote reference number -------------

Regards,
Kathy G. Rogers Online Customer Service http://www.rogers.com"

 

[mjschmidt]

Here is my reply to Kathy G from Rogers.

-------------------------------------------------

"Dear Kathy G. (or whomever is now reading this email),

I received your reply to my questions about Google Android 1.6 on the HTC Magic, and paid apps in the MarketPlace. I hope you will take a moment to properly read my response here, because I'm afraid the information you provided to me is incorrect (and full of Marketing gobble-de-gook). I recommend you ask someone in technical support, perhaps Nick, with whom I spoke on the phone yesterday, or Sherri from the office of the president, with whom I also spoke yesterday, and from whom I am waiting to receive a follow up phone call.

You see, I asked you when the update 1.6 for the Google phone operating system would be released. That is NOT the same thing as the file available for download from the Rogers web site. The file available on the Rogers web site is, in fact, only a minor security patch and bug fix. You can read about it here on HTC's web site: HTC Magic Software Update. Please note that this is NOT Android 1.6. Android 1.6 is an actualy update to the entire Operating System with many new features, including an updated MarketPlace for apps.

Please don't tell people that they can download Android 1.6 when it's not true.

As for my other question about having access to _PAID_ apps in the google marketplace, you said "Applications can be bought from the marketplace, similar
to the Apple store." I can only assume that no one in Rogers customer service has actually been trained on the new Android phones, and how they work in Canada. Maybe you should ask if anyone around you has an Android phone so you can see the MarketPlace. In fact, Canadian android users only have access to _FREE_ apps in the app store. We can not see any of the apps that actually cost money, so we can not buy them. There is a difference. So, again, please don't tell customers things that aren't true. We can NOT buy apps "similar to the Apple store" we can only download FREE apps.

I would like you to please elevate this to the next level. Forward this email to your manager, or someone who can actually get the right information. Let management know that they really need to put together a group of Customer Support reps and train them on Android to be able to properly answer these questions.

By the way, I will be saving all these emails, and sharing them with the greater community of Roger's Android customers. You can see an ongoing conversation about this by very upset customers here: http://androidforums.com/rogers/10647-rogers-dream-1-6-update.html and here: http://www.androidincanada.ca/rogersfido/dear-rogers-when-will-android-users-get-1-6-to-2-0-updates/ "

 

[Andy2010]

Good job mjschmidt. These people are so clueless and that makes you wonder how on earth that they can land a job at Rogers. Maybe Rogers love to hire incompetency people.

 

[mjschmidt]

Andy, I would imagine that rather than this rep being incompetent, this is an example of Rogers _Management_ failing their customers, _and_ their employees by launching a new product without; a. understanding the technology/software themselves; and b. giving their customer service and tech support reps proper training.

Ignorance does not equal incompetence or stupidity. Ignorance simply means you haven't been given all the information. I don't know anything about brain surgery, so I am ignorant in that regard.

I hope at the very least some one in management takes some initiative and has some of the customer service and tech reps trained properly on Android to handle all android calls, because they're just going to get more of them the more phones they sell, and so far, they don't seem very prepared.

Edit: looking again at Kathy G's original email to me, and the way certain paragraphs are written (ie. the part about "Open Source" and "buying" apps) I would wager she was copying and pasting from a prepared document given to her by the Marketing dept.

 

[Andy2010]

Mjschmidt, I am a system administrator and often I called for tech support for my internet services and tv services for my home. From what I've heard and know, most of these tech support follow a sheet of listed question and reply to their customer according to the list they have. I finally gave up calling them for support. I only call them to know if the service is down or not. Just like KALTIRE commercial said. "Good service bring the customers to them but a true service brings them back". When will they ever learn that "SERVICE" is important. To be honest, our technology compare to Asia is far way behind. People in asia changes their phone every 1/2 a year to a year to adopt the new product and you wonder how they can do that. It's very simple, what they do is, the provider will buy back their phone if it's 1/2 or 1 yr old from them. Then they sell it to the 3rd world country.