Samsung 'might' free up space with updateGeneral

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  1. Atma

    Atma Well-Known Member


    2badmice and lotus49 like this.
  2. lotus49

    lotus49 Well-Known Member

    That's interesting.

    I haven't used up all my space yet but installing Modern Combat 4 and Sygic Aura used up half of my free space with just these two apps. A bit more free space would be welcome.

    What they really need to do though is to allow you to store app data on the external SD card (although I realise that this is really Google's fault not Samsung's).
  3. Shocky

    Shocky On Probation

    How about they give us a way of installing applications on the sdcard, problem solved then.
  4. rushmore

    rushmore Well-Known Member

    Android team will not allow it. If any doubt, please read their input on such matters at the Android dev forums hosted by/with the Android team folks.
  5. speedlever

    speedlever Well-Known Member

  6. Shocky

    Shocky On Probation

    Screw the Android team, Samsung are big enough to force it through and everyone will thank them afterwards.

    We shouldn't have to root the phone to do this.
  7. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon Moderator

    Apps to sd is broken by design. It always was.

    Get the app devs to send their data to the sd card rather than internal storage - and the problem would be solved.

    But why won't the gaming community do that?

    Because of slower access to the sd card.

    So even if you could get Samsung to screw Android - as a solution because game developers are screwing you, not Google - you might not like the results.

    Gaming may be important to you, but getting Android screwed because of lazy game developers, justified by people not buying faster sd cards, isn't a solution that the rest of the (larger) user community would want or desire.
  8. rushmore

    rushmore Well-Known Member

    You can actually thank all the people that caused customer service cost issues due to not making the connection that swapping cards or using cheap cards caused their app and OS issues.

    That was all Android needed to kill it with carrier blessings.
    EarlyMon likes this.
  9. Shocky

    Shocky On Probation

    Do developers have the option to send data to the external sdcard for applications and games?

    If people in their spare time can make apps that force applications onto the sdcard then i'm sure Samsung and other large manufacturers can come up with a better solution that doesn't need us to root our phones.

    My sdcard benchmarks faster than the internal storage, I know there are slow sdcards out there. Why not include a built-in speed test, if the sdcard is fast enough then enable apps to be installed there. Or even check the model against an online database to see whether it's fast enough, a kind of Android sdcard certification.

    I don't how Android would be screwed either way, can't be any worse than it is now with regards to storage issues.
    bikeral and EarlyMon like this.
  10. ScandaLeX

    ScandaLeX Wasn't Me

    You keep saying what Samsung should do when this isn't up to Samsung to do a thing. Samsung didn't remove apps to sd.
  11. Shocky

    Shocky On Probation

    Well they have the best selling Android phones and the most influence, if they marketed and implemented it well enough others would follow.

    I know it's not going to happen as they love ripping us off on the models with extra storage but I can dream can't I?
  12. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon Moderator


    Most are either using an older API that defaults to internal storage or are not bothering and simply writing to the /data partition.

    I guarantee it's easy to determine the storage options used on any Android - I did for our team's internal storage backup solution.

    That would require Samsung to do things that could severely break other apps that DO know how to use the storage API calls correctly.

    Please just trust me on two things -

    First - forcing an OS to overcome user errors with storage handling is how we ended up with the MTP nightmare on Android.

    Second - bending the OS to overcome crappy coding techniques would be invasive and inevitably break apps that are already correct.

    So it really could get far, far worse.

    That is an excellent idea - if you limit it to app data and force developers to do their job properly.

    I wrote to a dev recently and told him that I had both internal storage and an sd card, and that I'd appreciate being able to spool my data to my sd card.

    He wrote back that I must new to Android, no such phone exists.

    I wrote to another (EStrongs File Explorer as a matter of fact! :() and explained how and why their report of my actual storage space was simply wrong. On their new update, they're off by gigabytes.

    And what did they tell me? That they'd look it into, but it was a low priority because I was wrong.

    So - I sent the link to the HTC specs page for my phone and screen shots.

    Answer - HTC must have said it wrong, and I must have a different phone because they're right.

    Never underestimate the stubborn stupidity of some developers.

    If your apps would ALL spool the user data to the sd card (keep config info on internal storage, that's small) - configurable by you, the user - you would not be having this problem.

    The problem does not lie with Android but with how people are abusing it with their code.
    ScandaLeX, jasonzech, Hadron and 2 others like this.
  13. Shocky

    Shocky On Probation

    Well that is very disappointing if none of the developers are taking advantage of this.

    Knowing the storage options available is it possible to give the user options of where data can be installed? Presuming the data is downloaded when launched the application.
    EarlyMon likes this.
  14. NZtechfreak

    NZtechfreak Well-Known Member

    A few things:

    As per earlier posts, app installations to internal SD only are an OS issue, and broken by design by Google.

    Samsung will surely improve the amount of space their bloat uses up in successive updates, the S3 saw significant improvements to the amount of free RAM at boot over the first several updates so I think the indicators are there that this will happen. Even a couple of extra gigs would make things much better for users of large apps (stuff like Gameloft games).

    Having said that, one of the problems here is releasing a 16GB base storage model at all. 32GB really needs to be the new standard, regardless of the presence of an external card slot.
    Shocky likes this.
  15. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon Moderator


    The data download at initial use - the app already knows how to do that. Adding an option to ask you how you want it instead of just doing what it wants?

    Trivial. Completely trivial to do.

    The camera app I have lets me choose whether to store to internal or actual sd card and knows how to preload my gallery so I click it on a thumbnail, and that lets me view my photo data wherever.

    A few lines of code extra and a dev could let you transfer info from one storage location to another, absolutely no big deal to do that.

    Scenario 1 - you started with your data on internal, change your mind and want to transfer it to your sd card. Scenario 2 - you started with the data on your sd card but want to see if that same data running from internal storage would work out better for you.

    Both are trivial and just a matter of willpower on the part of the developer.

    Android is a real-time embedded Linux.

    All of the important under-the-hood power of desktop Linux is right there in the palm of your hand.
    2badmice, Xxmen and Shocky like this.
  16. rushmore

    rushmore Well-Known Member

    Regardless of anything else, my guess is the bragging right quest for mod devs with the S4 will be who can make the leanest rom that does not impair the full function of the device. S4 is kind of like a modern day G1 now, except without the awful usb/audio port.
  17. Edonidd

    Edonidd New Member

    HTC's "flagship" phone doesn't have an external storage device, neither do a bunch of other Android devices. When this S4 came out what was everyone complaining about? The cheap feel and the plastic.

    Those of us who do care about a removable battery and an SD card are in the minority folks, sorry to say it. I even get the feeling just based on he amount of public outcry that this may be the last major phone, or at least among the last generation of major phones that do get those two features.

    You really think that Devs or Google themselves are gonna screw everyone else on all the other phones out there over just because we want to be able to play games on our SD cards? I want a billion dollars and one of those ticket oaks I saw on a commercial too, but it ain't happening.
  18. crabman

    crabman Well-Known Member

    Keep in mind some of that missing space isn't used up at all, its reserved. There are already roms under 500 megs and when installed the phone has not 1 kb more room on the internal storage than it did with the 1.7 gig original firmware. Haven't read of anyone figuring out exactly how much is sitting there unused but the amount is not trivial.
    EarlyMon likes this.
  19. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon Moderator

    The filesystem allocation for /system - where the "rom" is - is 2.69 GB.

    Of that, 2.14 to 2.48 GB are used depending on version, carrier and region, based on info published in the 32/64 GB thread so far.

    To reclaim any of that would require re-partitioning the storage as you say - not a pretty thought.
  20. rushmore

    rushmore Well-Known Member

    If you watched the Watchdog response and put into the context of them shipping six million that are all apparently accounted for with customer demand, it was more a "Yeah, we'll look into that and get back to ya! We'll call YOU."

    Would not be holding breath too long for this unless customer pushback is profound. Were/if that the/is case, more people would be revolting to wanting a 32GB model, since all that will be gained is maybe 1.5GB at best with the 16GB. If you are already tightish with 9GB, 10.5GB is not much more headroom.

    Point, being as others have stated, there are FAR more folks that will be happy with the 9GB or less than not. Will take a collective push from the minority to get any real action for lean roms or more assertive efforts to get carriers stocking larger models.
  21. lotus49

    lotus49 Well-Known Member

    They do and Sygic have done so.

    You may not have seen my post from a couple of days ago but with Sygic Aura, all you have to do is to move the /Sygic directory over to your external SD card and it just works.

    Unfortunately, it's not so easy on some other applications.
    EarlyMon likes this.
  22. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon Moderator

    "Samsung officially unveiled its latest handset on April 26 and had supplied 4 million units worldwide within five days. In contrast, it took 85 days for the company to shift 3 million of its S1 handsets, 55 days to do the same for the S2, and 21 days for the S3.

    "As of Friday, we have sold more than 6 million units, and we predict that we could break the 10-million mark by as early as the end of this month," the company said."

    Record profits too.

    Btw, this is the 21st day of the phone.
    rkkeller likes this.
  23. rkkeller

    rkkeller Well-Known Member

    The game called The Bards Tale requires 3.5 gig of space if you want the HD version, 1.8gig for the SD version, and it gives you the option to install to internal or external when installing it.

    More large games need to do this.
    EarlyMon likes this.
  24. rkkeller

    rkkeller Well-Known Member

    So much for people saying the 16gb limit would hurt sales. :D
  25. BzB

    BzB Well-Known Member

    i wouldn't be surprised if this starts to become more common among games and apps that require large databases. regardless of how much on board storage is included in a device, if some app developers keep bloating their applications, the push back will eventually be focused on them to provide more options for database storage and such. seems only right as sd storage is more cost effective by far than purchasing a phone with higher storage capacities.

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