So where did the 642MB of ROM go?


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  1. RussianVodka

    RussianVodka Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Out of the 1GB of ROM that the Evo comes with, we only have access to 358MB. This means that a whopping 642MB (more than the total amount of space on most Android phones) are already willed up with something.

    I can't imagine the OS would take up that much, since it would be too big for most other Android phones. Does this mean that sprint put filled up most of the phone's remaining memory with bloat-ware? If so will I be able to remove it without rooting the phone?

    I know that 358MB is more than enough for most application, but the idea of not having access to most of my memory is still bothersome.
     

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  2. swazedahustla

    swazedahustla Well-Known Member

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    Dont think it really matters, if you find a way to use up that much space with apps then WOW is all i can say. Anyone who roots will be able to save their apps to their SD card once froyo is all ported completely so I dont think it is much of an issue.
     
  3. KoukiFC3S

    KoukiFC3S Well-Known Member

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    This is weird since the Incredible has 700MB available.
     
  4. RyboCollier

    RyboCollier Well-Known Member

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    Its all that crappy bloatware!!!!!!!!!!! RAGE!!!
     
  5. katmandoo122

    katmandoo122 Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't make sense. What, you got Sprint TV, Nav, Zone, Nascar, and Football. If those combined took up over 100mb it's crap a peach pit.

    My guess is that it's the other stuff like Qik, maybe a bigger Youtube player, and other stuff that most people would be interested in that Sprinit made deals with to launch the phone with (does it come with Googles and Layar installed?).
     
  6. dan330

    dan330 Well-Known Member

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    i dont know....just guessing...

    maybe android see so much space and it is not closing any apps that you have started..and starting everything it thinks that can be helpful.

    in my Hero... there is little space and android is trying to maximize the little space but closing anything it can when it can.

    I have heard (not confirmed) that the Incredible ... android can see the internal 8 gb storage and use that as part of its memory... it is actually moving some of the background apps to that memory area so that the main memory is more free. therefore the higher free mem (700mb); which should translate to it will run marginally faster than the EVO.
     
  7. Rob_A

    Rob_A Well-Known Member

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    yeah, I find that annoying. They say "1GB of space for apps" but it's really 340MB or so. Lame.

    Hopefully Froyo lets us install apps to the SD card at will (as apposed to waiting for programmers to turn on the option on an app to app basis)
     
  8. Bek

    Bek Well-Known Member

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    Here's the breakdown of the partitions:

    /dev: 201900K total, 0K used, 201900K available
    /sqlite_stmt_journals: 4096K total, 4K used, 4092K available
    /system: 358400K total, 242856K used, 115544K available
    /data: 437888K total, 256988K used, 180900K available
    /cache: 163840K total, 2664K used, 161176K available
    /app-cache: 8192K total, 8192K used, 0K available

    The quick answer is "because of partitions." Say, 300mb of 1 gig is used, doesn't mean 700mb remains available. The /system partition contains the OS but has 115554K of free space that is probably set aside for future expansion.

    I'm guessing it is the /data partition that is available to us.
     
  9. DeusInnomen

    DeusInnomen Member

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    Correct. The /data partition (as well as /sdcard, which is self explanatory) are what you have access to. The rest are locked down as Read Only.
     
  10. MrX8503

    MrX8503 Well-Known Member

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    You know, I find this excuse really annoying. If we continued to think like this, we'd still have 512kb of ram in our computers.

    I have over 1gig of apps on my ipod touch, if Android wants to compete on the App front, whether it be actual games or applications, then Google needs to fix this issue ASAP. People may complain all they want about how the iPhone doesn't have expandable memory, well guess what? They can actually use their entire storage.

    How do you expect developers to make killer apps if they are restricted by space? Shame on Google, and shame on HTC for gimping the Evo, while giving the Incredible 700mb.
     
  11. Bek

    Bek Well-Known Member

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    And why are you harping on this, when Google has ALREADY addressed this in their next OS iteration?

    It's coming... be patient...
     
  12. MrX8503

    MrX8503 Well-Known Member

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    Unless I missed something, I haven't read Froyo fixing this. It was just "talked" about. I haven't seen any reviews or proof of this actually happening and is ready for prime time. The Evo is being released and so is the iPhone HD, little things like this could make or break sales.
     
  13. katmandoo122

    katmandoo122 Well-Known Member

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    You missed something. It is there. However, the app developers will have to allow it and, in most cases, recode their app to allow it.

    As for this being make or break, I can't think of anyone saying

    "Man, I'm only allowed to have 200 apps on my Evo...frack that!"

    The SD dismountng issue is a much bigger threat.
     
  14. bernechad

    bernechad Well-Known Member

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    Here ya go....

    Android 2.2 Froyo: everything you ever wanted to know -- Engadget

    And as far as the space available, I'm fine with it. All the apps I've used average around 1-1.5mb in size...so for me to fill up 1GB with apps, I'd need close to 1000 apps. And no, I don't need that many apps. Not when the entire internet is available to me.
     
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  15. njbianco

    njbianco Well-Known Member

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    There is only 512mb of RAM on the Evo and 1 GB of rom everyone has been getting the rom and ram confused I have realized.
     
  16. Bek

    Bek Well-Known Member

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    The OP is asking about ROM - aka storage space for the OS and apps.
     
  17. rushmore

    rushmore Well-Known Member

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    358mb is better than the 304mb the test units have ;)

    We posted about this issue before. 1GB rom is not really 1gb of space. Also, the "rom" is really a flash-rom that is both read & write. Easier just to call it a "rom". The "rom" is where the OS and all apps go for every device to date (except the Incredible).

    A. 1gb = about 930mb of actual free space (sector & format takes up space)
    B. The OS and stock apps take up about 300mb in 2.1
    C. This means you should have about 630mb free, so where is the other 272mb?


    KoukiFC3S,

    The Inc has 748mb free for apps, but does not use the rom, since the 512mb rom is loaded with the OS and stock apps only. All third party apps go to the 748mb of allocated flash memory. This is why there is only 6.6gb free for media, in the 8gb built-in flash.

    Froyo 2.2 is coming with apps2sd. The catch is all apps have to be revised to accept the option of installing or importing to card. Nexus users are finding this out now. It is not an easy change, either. Easier to write the app with it when created, apparently.

    A lot of good apps require more than 1mb. I have 205 apps installed, taking up 393mb and I have 355mb free. The size the apps state in the market are not standardized. Most are preinstalled size ;)
     
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  18. Bek

    Bek Well-Known Member

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    Android 2.2 Platform Highlights | Android Developers

    Doesn't get any more clear cut than that.
     
  19. MrX8503

    MrX8503 Well-Known Member

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    "While support for apps on external storage has been confirmed Froyo (the Manage Applications screen is now divided amongst Downloaded, Running, All, and most importantly, "On SD card"), try as we might, we couldn't find a single program that'd let us use the "Move to SD card" functionality. That includes marketplace and third-party downloads -- we'll have to explore this one later." - Engadget

    Nope, looks like I didn't miss anything. Seems like Froyo is implementing it, but its not working smoothly. Maybe you haven't heard people complain about space, but you're hearing one now. Me personally this is one reason why I'm considering an iPhone HD. I don't like to be restricted by space and Google's implementation sounds like a headache.

    This is the one of the reasons why Android apps are pretty low grade compared to the iPhone. Some games I have on my ipod are several hundred megs. How does anyone with an Android phone expect any kind of quality in an app if the developer doesn't have the space to do so? You may be fine with small low quality apps, but I'm not if I'm forking over the benjamins to own a smartphone.

    I think some are confused, but I think most people in this forum knows the difference. Most of the 1GB of ROM is taken up by the OS and its native apps, so we are left with around 300mb for any additional apps.
     
  20. KoukiFC3S

    KoukiFC3S Well-Known Member

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    Either way 300MB is enough space for most people. I have 60 apps and 200MB free.
     
  21. bernechad

    bernechad Well-Known Member

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    That's because developers haven't coded it into their programs yet. There's only 1 device out that has 2.2 on it, so it will come with patience. And for some that "doesn't like to be restricted", an iphone sure is an odd choice.


    iphone apps are for people that don't know how to use the internet, plain and simple. I don't need an app for conversions or price checking or other crap like that when i have the entire internet at my hands. iphone apps basically take the place of flash based web sites which, with android, isn't necessary.

    And games? I don't need HD quality first person shooters on my phone. I have consoles, computers, psp and dsi for all that. For a game on my phone, it's to take up 2 minutes of time, which simple games do.
     
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  22. Bek

    Bek Well-Known Member

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    No, it's not that it is not working smoothly - it's that apps must be updated to take advantage of it.

    Mediocre Analogy: You've upgraded your car's stereo from a cassette player to a CD player. The car now has the ability to play CDs but you still need to upgrade your music collection from cassettes to CDs.

    In the same regards, apps never had the concept of being able to install to a different location. Thus now apps need to be made aware of it. I haven't dug into the SDK documentation to study how they actually implemented it, so will refrain from further comment.

    See my prior post about how Android has partitioned the internal storage.
     
  23. rushmore

    rushmore Well-Known Member

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    Apps have to be revised to handle apps2sd. Apparently it is a lot easier to create the apps with apps2sd in mind ahead of time, rather than create it after the fact. This is why you have not seen a rush of apps updated to support it yet. Much easier said, than done.

    Probably late summer or early fall to have the issues all straight. Android team tried to avoid apps2sd for a long time.
     
  24. MrX8503

    MrX8503 Well-Known Member

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    You are right about that, I was hoping that developers didn't have to recode. We'll see how many developers will do this. As for the iPhone, I'd rather have something that is restricted, but very polished vs something that is open and sloppy.

    iPhone users are people that don't know how to use the internet? Is that your lame excuse for the Android marketplace lacking? Come on man, expect the best from Android and not excuses. I'm not just talking about HD FPS games, I'm talking about Apps in general. Look at facebook and fieldrunners, now look at the alternative on the Android. Its like night and day.

    I think its great that Android is getting flash, but its slows the browser down significantly. I'm all for Google taking an open stance on Apps, but they need to lift barriers for developers so they can make the best apps. For example the app SD storage restriction. Hopefully most developers will take advantage of Froyo opening up the SD.
     
  25. rushmore

    rushmore Well-Known Member

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    A lot of people that buy this device will more likely than not be app hounds ;)

    I have 205 apps taking up 398mb and 355mb free. Even the bigger games that put most of the data on the sd card still take up 3mb to 9mb of internal app space. Here are some of my bigger apps in megabytes.

    Google Earth 24
    Iron Sight 17
    MadMaks 16
    Anytime Pool 13
    Asphalt 10
    HeavyGunner 9
    Winds of Steel 8
    Magic Drop 8
    Bonsai Blast 7
    Sirius 7
    Elemental Galaxy 6
    Gem Magic 6
    Pokanoid 5
    Radiant 5
    idemolished 5
    Raging Thunder 2 5
    Jewellust 5
    Devilry Huntress 5
    Swype 5
    Super Tumble 4
    Armored Strik 3
    Astro manager 3
    Let's Golf 3

    I could go on, but the point is not only do the apps need space, you also need about 30mb free for cache for the browser, market, file manager, and most media apps. Performance drops big time without the extra free space in app storage.
     

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