Stupid question about signals, 3G, G, etcSupport


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  1. zcacogp

    zcacogp Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Chaps,

    Are you sitting down? Good. You'll need to be - I'm about to ask a really daft question.

    I have had my desire for about 2 months now, and it's the first smartphone I have ever had. Never before have I been able to get an internet connection other than when plugged into broadband, sitting at home (or work).

    But ... I can't seem to get an internet connection all that often. By my understanding, the icon in the top right of the screen shows you how fast a connection you should be getting (G, E, 3G and H, in increasing order of speed), and you can expect data to load accordingly quickly.

    However, on my desire, it seems I can have a 'good' connection, and yet not be able to do anything with it. Last night I was in a place I visit regularly, and the 'phone tells me that I had a 3G signal. Great - should be fast. But it wouldn't let me see any web page, instead telling me that www.google.com had moved or wasn't available - the usual message I get when I have no signal. I tried "speedtest" to see how fast a connection I had, but even though I supposedly had a 3G connection, speedtest showed a ping time of 999 and both upload and download speeds of 0. Google maps couldn't tell me where I was and wouldn't show me a map of anything.

    Even now, I am sitting at my usual desk, and I am told that I have an 'E' connection. But I can't open a web page, and am told that "There is no connection. The page will continue downloading when the connection is restored."

    The 'phone works fine when connected to a WiFi network (wonderfully well, in fact). But I have never been able to make the Google Sat Nav function work as it never seems to get the maps quickly enough. I have never been able to make YouTube work when not on a WiFi network (I assume 'cos there isn't enough data to make it work), and I tried the last.fm application the other day, which failed to work in the car as it downloaded songs more slowly than it played them.

    Is this normal? As I said, I have never had a smartphone before and I don't really know what to expect. The 'phone software is 2.10.405.2, which I think makes it a Froyo 'phone, but not branded (although it's on Orange). It is not rooted - as far as I know.

    I live and work in central London, and have yet to take the 'phone outside an area which claims to have "Excellent" 3G coverage, according to the Orange website.

    I have a few non-standard apps installed, one of which is Dolphin (which I tried to see whether the problem was with the standard browser. It made no difference.) Are these likely to be relevant? Should I restore the 'phone to factory settings to see if this helps?

    So, simple question, is this sort of (lack of) connection normal? If so, I am slightly struggling to see the point of a smartphone. If it isn't, what can I do about it?

    Thanks for your help.


    Oli.
     

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  2. Griff_LI

    Griff_LI Well-Known Member

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    If South Park has taught us nothing else... "There are no stupid questions, just stupid people" :cool:

    The Over-the-air (OTA) networking requires your carrier to enable it. It sounds like either your plan doesn't have data (or your carrier hasn't enabled it) or, more likely, the APN settings aren't correct on your phone.

    If you get a phone from a carrier they've usually set it all up, if you simply buy a handset and bang your SIM into it you'll need to set it up yourself.

    You can either tell us who you get your mobile phone coverage from (O2, VF, Orange etc.) or simply go to their website and find the APN settings for your phone. I'm on O2 and I know they have a page on their site where they can send the settings via SMS to your handset, I suspect other operators have similar systems. Failing that you can always type them into the relevant settings pages (there'll be instructions specifically for the Desire on their sites.
     
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  3. zcacogp

    zcacogp Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Griff,

    Thanks. From your answer it sounds like my experience is atypical, and there should be improvement available. Which is reassuring!

    It's on Orange. I can get some data when away from a WiFi network (it will pick up eMails when off-WiFi, for instance), so I assume that the account is set up correctly from Orange's end. Which means there must be something amiss with the settings on the 'phone ... it was purchased from Carphone Warehouse, so I guess the settings should have been set up correctly, but then I know I have tinkered quite a lot trying to improve things so I may well have messed something up.

    I'll do some googling and see what I can find. And update this thread as necessary.

    Thanks for your help.


    Oli. (Probably a stupid person.)
     
  4. Griff_LI

    Griff_LI Well-Known Member

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    If it'll pick-up emails then that is definitely odd. I'd give Orange support a ring as it sounds like they're limiting the traffic to me. Did you put an existing SIM from a previous phone in it ? Did that used to do email collection but no web ?

    And you're far from stupid, that was just a joke
     
  5. Mubble

    Mubble Well-Known Member

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    Orange 3G and Central London simply do not mix.

    My phone keeps losing signal on Orange and I'm in London. I've had two voicemails from colleagues today already - but for some reason my phone didn't ring.

    Read this:

    OrangeProblems.co.uk - Mobile Phones ~ View topic - Poor 3G Performance (Central, S and SE London areas)

    Edit: A friend of mine who's head of Android products at Motorola said the Desire is notoriously bad at switching from GSM to 3G. His advice to me was to go to settings > wireless & networks > mobile networks > network mode > and select WCDMA only.

    This will keep the phone locked on to the 3G signal slightly better.

    Apparently.
     
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  6. zcacogp

    zcacogp Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Griff,

    OK. Maybe a call to Orange is the answer. No, it's the SIM card that came with the 'phone, with '3G' printed on it (which is meant to be important.)

    I have found two sets of APN settings, from another forum, like this:

    MMS Settings
    Name: orangemms
    APN: orangemms
    Proxy: http://192.168.224.10
    Port: 8080
    Username: Orange
    Password: Multimedia
    Server: http://mms.orange.co.uk
    MMSC: http://mms.orange.co.uk
    MMS Proxy: 192.168.224.10
    MMS Port: 9201
    MCC: 234
    MNC: 33
    APN type: mms

    Orange internet Settings
    Name: orange
    APN: orangeinternet
    Proxy: 192.168.071.035
    Port: 9201
    Username: <not set>
    Password: <not set>
    Server: orangeinternet
    MMSC: http://mms.orange.co.uk
    MMS Proxy: 192.168.224.10
    MMS Port: 8080
    MCC: 234
    MNC: 33
    APN type: <not set>

    I am just in the process of setting these up, but have also an APN called Orange GPRS WAP, which I remember setting up myself using instructions from the internet somewhere (but can't remember where.) When I am on the "Access Point Names" screen, there is a radiobutton next to each APN. Am I selecting which APN to use with this radiobutton, or do they all work all the time and the radiobutton is just used to select an APN whose settings need to be changed?

    I may well be stupid. Let's keep that possibility on the table until it has been ruled out ...


    Oli.
     
  7. zcacogp

    zcacogp Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Mubble,

    That is VERY interesting - thanks.

    Sounds remarkably like my problem. In fact, almost exactly like my problem. A call to Orange sounds like it is definitely in order, just to register that there is a problem if nothing else. What number should I call?

    The problem with setting it to WCDMA only is that if there is no 3G then it won't revert to 2G, I'm guessing? Although if you are in a good 3G area then this shouldn't be a problem ...


    Oli.
     
  8. zcacogp

    zcacogp Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Chaps,

    An update. I've applied all the APN settings as posted before, and will see if it improves the problem.

    I've also called Orange about the issue (150 from the handset), and to say the experience was unhelpful is no understatement. I can (apparently) expect a manager to call me back within an hour to 'discuss the issue', but I'll believe it when I hear it.

    I could almost live with poor data coverage is the customer service was any good. Is it stupid to say that I am almost more annoyed by their 'attempts' to resolve the problem than I am by the problems themselves? :mad:


    Oli.
     
  9. Eris Ed

    Eris Ed Well-Known Member

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    Strange that you have so many settings for the Orangeinternet APN! I've never had any problems after receiving the Orange system text messages within a couple of hours of turning on my phone for the first time.

    My default APN has always been Orange Internet. These are my settings with the differences highlighted in bold:

    Orange internet Settings
    Name: Orange Internet
    APN: orangeinternet
    Proxy: <not set>
    Port: <not set>
    Username: <not set>
    Password: <not set>
    Server: <not set>
    MMSC: <not set>
    MMS Proxy: <not set>
    MMS Port: <not set>
    MCC: 234
    MNC: 33
    Authentication type: CHAP
    APN type: default

    I'm on Orange Panther, so maybe there are different settings depending on which talk plan is used.

    Can Orange not just send a system text to set up your network settings?
     
  10. rasobey

    rasobey Well-Known Member

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    I've given up on Orange, whenever I ring them they just tell me there's network problems in the areas I've been having difficulties (for SIX months?!). I've even been in the damn Orange shop with my phone broken and other phones working, and they still don't know how to fix it.

    For now I've stuck a 3 SIM in my Desire and will be testing that for a month. It it does the job i.e. consistent data access, I'll see about buying out my Orange contract and jumping ship.

    But..the Desire is simply an awesome phone. Simples.
     
  11. Mubble

    Mubble Well-Known Member

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    True. I find it slightly useful because when my 3G reception drops to one bar, my phone switches to GSM, and then it sits without any reception and "emergency calls only" for 30 seconds before GSM kicks in. Then it does the same when reverting back to 3G.

    Had the same issue. Phoned Orange and they said a mast was down and would be back up and running by the weekend. Two weeks later I still had little or no 3G reception. Phoned back and was told there was no recent issue with masts in my area. Their advice to me was to move. And I'm not making that up.
     
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  12. zcacogp

    zcacogp Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    I'm detecting a pattern here ... the 'manager' called me back, and I asked what he had reported on his case log. The first guy had (as I suspected) not noted the issues at all correctly.

    The 'manager' was slightly better (about as good as any I have had at an 'offshore call centre'), and took the details of the issue down properly, and asked what areas I used my 'phone in most often. Funnily enough, the two areas I mentioned had particular problems with masts and connectivity ... and only those two areas. Now, call me cynical, but I don't believe him.

    He has offered a 50% refund on my bill this month (all of
     
  13. Mubble

    Mubble Well-Known Member

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    I was at non-league football last week. I was surrounded by metal railings and metal flood lights and noticed I had full 3G+ reception (I presume the metal around me acted as massive antenna). I wanted to watch the Champions League matches on tv but Catch-Up TV (TVCatchup - Never Miss A Show Again) - essentially Freeview TV - on my Desire doesn't stream well unless through wifi. But I tired it over 3G and the streaming and quality was faultless. People around me were stunned that I was watching clear and uninterupted ITV1 on my phone.

    Got home, tried it from there and it kept buffering every 3 seconds.

    Just shows how much crappy reception ruins these 3G phones.
     
  14. zcacogp

    zcacogp Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Simply put, it renders them more than a little pointless.

    Which is where I am now.


    Oli.
     
  15. riki1kenobi

    riki1kenobi Well-Known Member

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    Have you got/downloaded the official orange app from the market? It tells you how many mins/sms and data you have used/got left.....It only updates every other day but used along with a data monitor such as Call meter NG or Watchdog etc is quite useful to have.....

    I'm gonna throw you a curve ball from left field here, have you at any time downloaded an apn control app from the market/uninstalled it? IF you have it might be the cause of your issues....

    Let me explain.....I used apndroid widget for keeping my data connection to my liking (i.e switch it on and off when I wanted to) but then I got fed up of it looking out of place alongside my other control widgets (I also hadnt come across the HTC ones - from home screen add widget>widget>settings choose from a host of BT, Airplane, Wifi, Mobile Network etc - which look so much better IMO).

    I naturally uninstalled the apndroid and set the HTC one on the screen, however, it wouldnt work......I did everything I could think of to get it working but to no avail and eventually downloaded apndroid again. My data on/off worked fine with both apndroid AND with the HTC one so I uninstalled apndroid again. HTC data widget stopped working again! :mad:

    Only after I went online (to search out IF anyone else had this issue) did I notice that you NEED to uninstall apndroid with a live WIFI connection otherwise it borks your apn settings.

    The solution IF you have this issue, download the offending app again from the market and make sure the wifi connection is on before uninstalling it!

    Now the official HTC data control widget should work as it is meant to :D
     
  16. ianb11

    ianb11 Well-Known Member

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    I have a BIG problem as with the OP with my 3G not working even when on full signal but reading through the other threads just presumed it was Oranges crappy coverage.

    Compared my settings with these & I have MMS Protocol as WAP 2.0 but I also have Authentication Type as "not set".

    Should I change it?
     
  17. zcacogp

    zcacogp Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Riki1kenobi,

    Thanks. Funnily enough I DID install an App Killer, and removed it a few weeks ago. (Apparently they are un-necessary). You are suggesting this could be relevant &#8230; thanks for the remedy. As it is, I am considering putting the &#8216;phone back to factory settings and starting again from scratch – both to see whether anything I have done with it has caused the problem and to make sure that Orange have nothing else to blame for it&#8217;s non-operation. (Still no call from their &#8216;technical team&#8217; BTW.)

    As it is, I had a play around with the &#8216;phone last night (rare that I &#8216;play&#8217; with it instead of using it), and the symptoms are exactly as described on the forum Mubble linked to; it works (slowly) on &#8216;G&#8217; and &#8216;E&#8217;, not at all on &#8216;3G&#8217; and very nicely when it gets &#8216;H&#8217;. Snag is that the &#8216;H&#8217; signal is never very reliable, and hence it can appear to work well for a few seconds and then pack up altogether as it switches back to &#8216;3G&#8217;. Ianb11 – it sounds like this is what you are experiencing as well.

    I have set the APN&#8217;s back to default (using the &#8216;restore to defaults&#8217; command on the &#8216;phone) and that seems to have killed it altogether. I&#8217;ll reset it using the settings I posted above and hopefully it will come back.

    As an aside, I tried swapping SIM cards between my wife&#8217;s Nokia N71 (I think &#8230; ) and my HTC last night, and didn&#8217;t find anything useful. Her Nokia was locked to O2 and wouldn&#8217;t accept my SIM, and I found that my HTC wouldn&#8217;t pick up an O2 3G network in our house (although it worked quite well on O2 &#8216;G&#8217;.)

    I&#8217;ll keep this thread updated.


    Oli.

    P.S. Ianb11 – can&#8217;t help, but I&#8217;d suggest you do try changing it, and see what happens. You can always change it back.
     
  18. Eris Ed

    Eris Ed Well-Known Member

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    As I said, the settings may be different depending on what talk plan you have, so I don't really know. Change it a see what happens, and change it back if it's no better. I haven't ever needed to change these settings, they were set up by service text from Orange.
     
  19. ianb11

    ianb11 Well-Known Member

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    I'm gonna contact Orange but to be honest I don't expect to get anywhere cos it's clearly a network issue rather than a handset or settings issue.

    It's really frustrating though - hopefully when the T Mobile 3g signal is shared to Orange customers next year that should make it better but if Orange got their house in order we wouldn't have to wait that long for something that I already pay for that I can't get consistently.
     
  20. zcacogp

    zcacogp Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Ian,

    DO contact them, and make it clear that you aren't happy.

    Indeed, the TMobile 3G network is meant to be very good. But, precisely as you said, I don't want to be waiting 'round until Orange allow us access to it; we are paying for a good quality 3G service now (and have been for the last 3 months in my case), and I'd quite like to get what I paid for - or my money back.


    Oli.
     
  21. ianb11

    ianb11 Well-Known Member

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    I will be doing Oli don't worry.

    One of my colleagues has a Desire, he's on T Mobile & gets pretty much perfect H signal all day every day at work which is why I'm looking forward to the signal share next year.

    Another colleague has a Wildfire on O2 - perfect H signal.

    It's so frustrating.

    I'm with you - I want what I pay for now.
     
  22. zcacogp

    zcacogp Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Ian,

    OK, I've had a bit more of a poke around and, while I don't have a solution, I do seem to have made it a smidge better.

    I reset the 'phoen to factory settings, and it seems that the best setting for the APN is to set the APN as 'orangeinternet' and the MCC and MNC to 234 and 33 respectively. This is the settings given on the Orange website.

    What has helped is to set the "Network Mode" to 'WDCMA only'. (Settings > Wireless and Networks > Mobile networks > Network Mode.) This seems to hold the 'phone on 'H' for as long as possible, during which time I get a tolerable download speed (around 120Meg or so, from where I am sitting now.) Not a patch on good broadband, as it is meant to be, but it works.

    When it shows '3G' it occasionally seems to get a small amount of data. But it's painfully slow and very intermittant. It's not that it doesn't work at all, but it's not far off ...

    However, beware. From what I can tell, this setting will use a lot of power and your battery life will suffer accordingly.

    There is clearly a problem with the service provided by Orange, and I have yet to hear back from their 'Technical Team'. If I still haven't heard anything by the end of the afternoon I'll eMail them and ask what they are doing about it. (eMail isn't great, but it's better than talking to their call centre.)

    I'll keep you posted.


    Oli.
     
  23. Bradden

    Bradden Well-Known Member

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    I've had a look at vodafone uk.. they list two "apns" one is for WAP and one for internet... can someone explain the difference please:

    Vodafone uses a variety of different APNs (Access Point Names) to manage the point at which you connect to the 3G or GPRS networks. The APN you need depends on the service/connection that you want to use.

    The settings for connecting to the Internet APN are:

    APN: Internet
    Username: web
    Password: web

    The settings for connecting to the WAP APN are:

    APN: wap.vodafone.co.uk
    Username: wap
    Password: wap

    You may also need the Access Point Name (APN) added to your account to allow you to access the internet - to arrange this please contact Customer Service.



    Thanks
     
  24. riki1kenobi

    riki1kenobi Well-Known Member

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    I would imagine one being for connection over wifi and the other for connection over data......
     
  25. jaybo1973

    jaybo1973 Well-Known Member

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    Hi guys

    I have always had trouble with getting a decent signal since getting my Desire (about 3 months ago also) I am on 3UK. I have had a few chats with thier customer sevices dept and ended up getting a fiver off of my bill (for rest of the contract)

    At home I usually have 2 bars on H and the guy said someting along the lines of 'the mast has to much traffic and is being improved, expect an improvement in the near future.'

    I am sick of having a poor reception wherever I go. You guys talk about checking your download speed. How do you do this?

    Cheers
     

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