Temporary Root

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  1. hancock87

    hancock87 Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure if this has been addressed somewhere else, but I just want to make sure. I'm still fairly new to all of this stuff, so I want to make sure I completely understand what I am doing with my phone. I have installed and successfully temporarily rooted my droid incredible with z4root. I tried it, and checked it with root checker, and it says I have superuser access. I have downloaded clockworkmod ROM manager and titanium backup. I was wondering if I can do any nandroid backups or if I can flash any ROMs? I am assuming I can't, because both of those require the phone to reboot, which would lose my root. If that's true, the only thing the temporary root is really useful for is using root only apps, and to remove bloat apps, correct? And what is ROM manager useful for if I only have a temporary root? Thanks for the help!

  2. scotty85

    scotty85 Guides Guide

    yes,you can do nandroid backups and flash roms. however,if you boot to recovery,make a nandroid backup,then reboot the phone,your su access will be gone(i think) so youll need to gain temporary root again to use any root only apps(titanium backup,setcpu,drocap).

    you should still be able to boot to recovery and resrtore/make backups and even flash a rom without su access,as once recovery is in place,it wont leave. you wont need su to access its features.

    if you boot into recovery and flash a rom,once you reboot,you should still be rooted(i think) as the custom rom you install should have su,the superuser app,and possibly busybox built in :)

    is there a reason you dont want permanent root? i personally would reccomend that you just run unrevoked and be done. it leaves your phone in a much safer state,IMO,as the S-OFF bootloader has greater options for restoring a soft-bricked phone,since it will flash an unsigned(i.e.,something not from HTC) RUU or recovery.

    not to mention that the above info is just theory ;) i think it is correct but i havent done it,and if i am wrong it could be possible to get into a situation where there is a bootloop or semi-functional rom that might be tough to fix without the phone being fully rooted :eek:

    my advice woulf be run unrevoked,or enjoy your stock phone and leave z4root alone.

    if you continue down this path,be careful... double check the md5s of anything you flash,always do your wipes,make backups,and dont forget to flash the correct gapps with cm roms. :)

    my 2 cents :)
    hancock87 likes this.
  3. hancock87

    hancock87 Well-Known Member

    I guess my idea was to do a nandroid backup with a temporary root. I don't really like the idea of doing a wipe of my phone in order to unroot it if I should ever need to. I'm not really sure if there is any way to put the phone back EXACTLY how it was before the wipe, but I really want to be able to backtrack to the original stock without root if I need to. This is why I had the idea to do a nandroid with the temporary root, so then, if I ever need to, I can just flash that backup and reboot my phone, and, yay!, no more root, without having to wipe.

    If you unroot your phone, is there a way to get it EXACTLY how it was before you unrooted it, meaning all of the same apps, settings, sd card, desktop configuration, etc, all the same, after the unroot? My phone is almost a part of me. I have spent a lot of time setting everything up, downloading apps, taking pictures, etc, and I would hate to do even one thing wrong that would result in losing all of that time, effort, and reliability of my phone.

    My point in all of this is I wanted to be able to unroot easily. Is there a way to do a nandroid BEFORE I use unrevoked, so I can just flash it and unroot that way? I'm also not sure if I can backup all of the things mentioned above and put them EXACTLY how they are if I want to flash a ROM or unroot. I love my desktop configuration, and settings, etc, so I don't want to have to redo all of that. I'm assuming this is what titanium backup is for, but how much of that does it cover? Is there anything that it wouldn't backup, or replace if I need it?

    "is there a reason you dont want permanent root? i personally would reccomend that you just run unrevoked and be done. it leaves your phone in a much safer state,IMO,as the S-OFF bootloader has greater options for restoring a soft-bricked phone,since it will flash an unsigned(i.e.,something not from HTC) RUU or recovery"
    Can you explain this to me? Like I said before, I'm a little new to the idea of rooting. What's IMO? And what is the S-OFF bootloader? How is that useful if you brick your phone? And how do you use it?

    Thank you very much for the help!!!
  4. scotty85

    scotty85 Guides Guide

    IMO=in my opinion ;) im at work right now, ill answer the rest in a bit. :)
  5. jsoderholm

    jsoderholm New Member

    I am really new to this forum bit, so I hope I haven't disrupted a conversation.........Do I need to download the "premium" version of the file in order to root the droid? I keep getting an error message that says "Failed!.....No fu goo"
    Thanks so much for any help.
  6. hancock87

    hancock87 Well-Known Member

    It's perfectly OK! We're all here to ask questions and learn! Although I am afraid to say I don't know the answer to your question. Sorry! :p
  7. scotty85

    scotty85 Guides Guide

    what premium version of what file? :confused:

    if you are refering to the z4root app,i personally wouldnt use it. run unrevoked instead.
  8. scotty85

    scotty85 Guides Guide

    first,i have a question for you.

    why do you want to root? since you have so painstakingly set up your phone,i assume that you have no interest in running custom roms? are there some root only apps that you want to use? or do you simply want the ability to make backups?

    the second thing i should address,is there is really no real need to unroot once you are rooted. it doesnt change anything about your phone that would be to your advantage to undo at some point in the future,so your concerns about being able to unroot to a state to where your phone is exactly the same,but unrooted,dont make a lot of sense to me. the only real reason to unroot would be if you have to send your phone in to verizon if it breaks,in wich case they are going to send you a new phone,or possibly wipe your data to repair yours,so restoring all your apps and settings isnt of much relevance.

    all rooting does is add the superuser app to your app drawer,and make some changes to the factory rom to give you "superuser access" i.e.,the ability to do pretty much whatever you want! for example flashing clockwork recovery,using root apps,flash new roms,etc. thats it. so there is no real need to ever unroot,unless as i mentioned,your phone needs serviceing.

    running unrevoked is just like running z4root. it doesnt affect anything thats on your phone currently.so there is no need to make a backup before hand,but since you have clockwork recovery,you can boot into it and make a nandroid backup before you run it,for peace of mind if you want to. :)

    a nandroid backup is basically a snapshot of your phone the instant you make the backup. text messages,call log,the apps in your app drawer,everything. if you wipe your phone,try a rom,dont like it,you can restore that backup,and it will litterally be JUST like you left it. as long as yuo took it when the phone was in a good,working state,it is basically like a system safepoint on a pc. you can make them as often as you like... just make sure to make one before attempting to make any kind of change,just in case it doesnt work out.

    titanium backup is a tool to make rom changing easier for us flash-o-holics ;) it backs up your apps and app data. it can also back up system data,but you do have to be careful when restoring it. restoring system data from 1 rom to a fresh version of that same rom is ok,but can lead to bad things if you try and restore it from 1 rom to a different rom. my reccomendation would be to only use titanium to backup apps and app data for the purpose of changing roms.

    when you change roms,you will have to re-setup your homescreens (desktop) after you restore your apps. i have heard that an app called "my backup pro" can be used to backup and restore your texts and call log,but i personally never care about those,and have never used that app. i just like to back up my apps.

    things on your SD card are not touched during a rom flash,or rom change. your pictures,music,videos,ringtones,alerts,pretty much anything you have stored on the SD card is perfectly safe,no need to back it up.

    think of it this way: as long as you continue to remain rooted,you can boot into clockwork recovery and make a backup as often as youd like. weekly,monthly,whatever. if you should have an issue with your phones speaker,for example,and they send you a replacement,you can root the new phone,insert your sd card,and restore your most recent backup. return the damaged phone back to stock and send it back in. or if you just wake up one morning and it wont turn on :eek: root the replacement phone,restore the most recent backup,good to go. obviously you wont need to worry about returning it to stock since it wont turn on ;) but the point is... remaining rooted can ensure that you are able to restore a current backup to a replacement incredible if you should have any kind of hardware or software malfunction. :cool:

    "is there a reason you dont want permanent root? i personally would reccomend that you just run unrevoked and be done. it leaves your phone in a much safer state,IMO,as the S-OFF bootloader has greater options for restoring a soft-bricked phone,since it will flash an unsigned(i.e.,something not from HTC) RUU or recovery"
    as i said,IMO simply= in my opinion(like LOL=lauging out loud). the S-OFF bootloader is a "security off" bootloader. the bootloaders job can be to flash the different parts of a factory issued rom(called an RUU). an S-ON bootloader will ONLY flash things that have been signed by,and therefore approved by,HTC.

    without getting into a complex explanation,the S-OFF bootloader simply adds greater flexibility and more options to fix a phone that wont boot and wont work,since we can use it to flash whatever we want,even if it hasnt been approved by HTC ;)

    another big advantage is that it is easy to accept an OTA without permanently losing your root if you want to. there is more info on unrevokeds page here: public:forever [RootWiki]

    my advice would be not to worry so much about the bootloader and being S-OFF actually means at this point,just that it is better :D

    anyway,i hope that clears up a few things for you.
    hancock87 likes this.
  9. scotty85

    scotty85 Guides Guide

    i thot i should go back and adress this last statement. rom manager is not useful for anything other than flashing clockwork recovery. DO NOT use it to make backups,or try and flash roms.

    rom manager is unreliable,and has great potential for making your phone unusable. you should become comfortable making backups,wiping,and flashing roms manually,in clockwork recovery.
  10. sdrawkcab25

    sdrawkcab25 Well-Known Member

    And I'll chime in in something here... you should NEVER try to accept an OTA while rooted, s-off or s-on. While the chances are slim it could cause the phone to become unusable especially if Verizon bakes something into it to disable rooted phones. Wait for a dev to root the OTA first.
  11. jsoderholm

    jsoderholm New Member

    Yes, that is what I was referring to. I was directed to it by Google, I believe. At any rate, based on your recommendation, I uninstalled it and then looked for Unrevoked. However, it appears Unrevoked doesn't work on Android X 2.2. Also, Verizon tells me that they are the only ones who have the X. So am I outta luck?.....Thanks for your information. You have saved me A LOT of time!
  12. scotty85

    scotty85 Guides Guide

    so you have a motorola droid X? psssst... youre in the incredible forum ;)

    my apologies,i did not realize that you didnt have the htc incredible. you might check here for the best methods of rooting the x: Motorola Droid X - Android Forums

    also try the unlockr.com: Motorola Droid X How To’s | TheUnlockr

    on the unlockrs page,i used the superoneclick method on my original droid and it was pretty painless ;) might give that one a go :)
  13. scotty85

    scotty85 Guides Guide

    ive actually never heard of anything bad happening. clockwork and RA recoveries will block it from happening. the worse part is how it will hound you to update until youve installed a rom with the OTAs updates and firmware number. the developers always seem to get them early,so hopefully a rom update will be available to you before the OTA even starts getting pushed to phones.

    youll need to install a stock recovery to get an OTA.

    for sh*ts and giggles,i just unrooted my inc. put it back to unrooted stock firmware,radio,and recovery. true to unrevokeds claim,my s-off remained,and all i had to do was flash my prefered recovery(in my case RA-GNM) thru hboot to get it back. before restoring my cm7 backup,i confirmed that you can make and restore backups of the stock unrooted firmware just fine,so if a person really wanted to obtain temp root and flash clockwork recovery,and then just use that to make backups of their stock firmware on occasion,i dont see why it would not work. after restoring cm7,i went back to the unrooted firmware again,and flashed the superuser app thru recovery and rebooted back into now rooted factory firmware. pretty slick... stock to rooted without running any rooting programs :eek: :D i dont see any reason why it wouldnt work like this with an OTA. just make 100% sure to be very careful what you flahs thru hboot. always double and triple check your md5 sums

    the only thing i am not able to test,is the ability to enter recovery from an s-on hboot. but im pretty sure it works the same :)

    for whatever thats worth,anyway :D
    hancock87 likes this.
  14. jsoderholm

    jsoderholm New Member

    Duhhhhhh! Thanks for the info. Like I said, I'm a newbie............
  15. sdrawkcab25

    sdrawkcab25 Well-Known Member

    Just happened to a few thunderbolt users. Whether was verizon's intentions or not, can still happen.

    Verizon will be implementing ways to block rooted users from the network, and it can happen over a seemingly innocent OTA, just a matter of time. Verizon/HTC devs are smarter than people give them credit for.

    So like I said best practice is to never accept ota's from verizon while rooted. Always wait for a dev to bake it.
  16. scotty85

    scotty85 Guides Guide

    got some links?

    clockwork wont install an OTA,and ive not heard of anyone trying to install the stock recovery image in order to accept one... the only issue ive seen/haerd/read about is folks that tried to flash HTCs signed RUU overop of their rooted/S-OFF devices. doing that does indeed end badly,but is not the same as accepting an OTA notification.
  17. sdrawkcab25

    sdrawkcab25 Well-Known Member


    I've flashed the ruu over my phone (s-off) multiple times, that's fine to do. It's the easiest way to unroot but keep s-off.
    But future OTA's can have ways of detecting non-stock recoveries and disabling the phone. Again, the key word is "can". The odds are slim it will ever happen soon, but just talking about best practice.

    Another link: (post 6)
  18. scotty85

    scotty85 Guides Guide

    good info. hadnt heard about the OTA "sneeking in" without a notification :eek:

    also thot id point out that,incredibles and thunderbolts are not exactly an apples to apples comparison. flashing the newest signed firmware(1.13.605.7) on a rooted thunderbolt WILL likely brick your device [ruu + update.zip][MR1 aka First OTA] May 12th OTA - 1.13.605.7 - xda-developers

    so i assume,your refering to having flashed RUUs on your rooted inc,wich is indeed fine.

    appears that there may be some issue with clockwork preventing the OTA on the TB,but with the inc your fairly safe as long as your phone powers into hboot,and is s-off,its fixable :)

    thats the beauty of unrevokeds "forever" tool... even if you flash an RUU that oiverwrites the bootloader, the s-off patch stays in place. :cool:
    hancock87 likes this.
  19. hancock87

    hancock87 Well-Known Member

    Can you explain this to me? What are md5 sums? How are they important? What sum do I need to make sure I have? How do you check it?

    Also, I tried unrooting my temporary root with z4root. I was able to unroot in a couple seconds (it took longer to press the button :p). It was quick and easy, and no wipe required. I was wondering, if I ever needed to bring my phone back to Verizon, could I root using unrevoked and unroot (if needed) with z4root, so then I don't have to wipe all of my data? Not planning on needing to do that anytime soon, but I was just wondering if it would work.

  20. scotty85

    scotty85 Guides Guide

    i can,but im on my way out the door for work. ill reply later this evenin when i get home... just didnt want to think i was ignoring your question. :)
    hancock87 likes this.
  21. Bob Cat

    Bob Cat Careful, They're sharp!! Moderator

    I'm watching too. :D
  22. iowabowtech

    iowabowtech root@android:/ #

    Most of the better devs post an MD5 for a particular download. Very generally speaking, it's a string of numbers/letters that are associated with that file for the purpose of recognition. There are many MD5 calculator programs that will analyze a download and generate it's MD5. Once downloaded, if it matches what the dev posted, you can be ensured of file and download integrity.

    As for the unroot with Z4 idea, I haven't tried it but by the time you want to unroot, you're probably not going to be running exact stock so I'm not sure what attempting to unroot would do in that situation but I wouldn't want to try it myself. If you're wanting to unroot for a return, you'd want to be back on the current stock Rom at that time so I've always just loaded the stock rom.zip (PB31IMG) by way of a FAT32 formatted SD card which removes root and brings you back to stock. Can also run the actual RUU (.exe) on a computer while hooked up via USB cable for the same result. Note that you would still be s-off at that time and you'd need to load the s-on tool prior to unrooting if desired.

    Here's the MD5 calculator I use if you're interested:
    Bullzip MD5 Calculator - Free software downloads and software reviews - CNET Download.com
    scotty85 likes this.
  23. scotty85

    scotty85 Guides Guide

    not much more to add to iowabowtech explantion of md5s.he even provided you with a link so you can check them on your pc before transfering them to your phone,wich is an excellent habit to get into. it will easily save some headaches that can arise from accidentally flashing an incomplete download :eek:

    you can also check them on your phone by using an app called "scary aliens andriod file verifier AFV" wich is available from the market. its a good habit to get into to chec them prior to flashing.

    the reason i stressed the importance of checking them when flashing things thru an s-off bootloader,is that it will not do any security checks like an "s-on" bootloader will. therefore,it is particularly dangerous to flash a phone in this manner,as a bad file can leave the phone in operable,and even unrecoverable :eek: i dont mean to scare you,but,while relatively safe if done correctly(by using only files from a reputable source and verifying the md5 sum prior to flashing) it is not something to be taken lightly.

    files are flashed thru hboot in the manner described above. they are renamed to "PB31IMG" and placed on a FAT32 formatted SD card,then the phone is put into hboot by powering off,then back on while holding volume down.

    as i mentioned,this is not something youll likely have to to for awhile,so i wouldnt worry too much about it right now. the majority of what you do with your phone will be in your clockworkmod revovery(making backups,wiping data,flashing roms) and is reasonably risk free :)

    as for your unroot with z4root,i agree completely with iowa... its not something i would recomend or personally do. z4root is a somewhat outdated app,and i would avoid its use completely. if you are this concerned about being able to unroot without losing data,it may be a good idea that you do not root yet.

    as i mentioned in the other post- you will be able to make backups as often as youd like to prevent data loss. using unrevoked,and being s-off,will make it extremely easy for you to take your phone in for service. you may not understand these steps completely,but all you will have to do to service your phone will be:
    1-boot to recovery and make a backup
    2-reboot and place the return to stock PB00IMG on your sd card
    3-boot into hboot and run the update
    4-take your phone in for service
    5-when you reciece it back,it depends what the did as to your next course of action. if you still have the s-off bootloader,all youll need to do is flash clockworkmod recovery thru hboot,then restore your backup. easy as that.
    6-if they have pushed software,or you have run the unrevoked "s-on tool",you will have to run the unrevoked program again to re-root your phone and get the s-off baCK. at this time,all youll have to to is reflash clockworkmod recovery via rom manager,and boot into it,then restore your backup.

    the point im getting at,is that its not a big deal to wipe your data to unroot. all youll have to do is re-root in a worse case scenario to be able to restore a backup and get your phones setup back exactly the way you left it :)
    hancock87 likes this.
  24. hancock87

    hancock87 Well-Known Member

    Cool! Thank you guys for all the replies! It has helped a lot :) I now have another question: can you explain to me ROMs? I kind of understand what they are, and that you put them on the SD card and flash them in recovery, but are there only certain ones that can be done on the incredible? How do I know which ones they are? Where can I find a complete list of them? How do I flash them? Do I HAVE to delete all of my memory? How do I do that? And what is the "radio" and "kernel" and what does changing them do? And how do I do that? Thanks for all of your help!
  25. Bob Cat

    Bob Cat Careful, They're sharp!! Moderator

    Whew that's a mouth full. But here's a start List of ROM's for the Incredible - xda-developers. You need to leave the radio and kernel's alone until you get a better understanding of what rooting is. The one thing you don't want to do is brick you phone (make it an expensive paper weight) from playing with things you don't have a good understanding about.:eek:

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