The 4G theory: Gingerbread, Google Gets Greedy.

  1. zogoibi

    zogoibi Member

    I don't know what's the problem Google has with SIM storage. Since the beginning of times, mobile phones give you the option to store both your messages and your contacts to the SIM card, and to move them to/from the phone memory. It's an essential feature, IMHO. Not only for keeping your privacy, but mostly for keeping your contacts and messages always with you, no matter of which phone you're using: yours, your girlfriend's, your mother's, or a new phone you're going to buy. And it's also a very useful feature when flashing different ROMs, developing, etc. You want inmediate access to your contacts and messages, regardless of whether you have wifi around or an expensive data plan.

    But now, with Gingerbread, the SIM is intentionally and totally neglected by Google (except, of course, for importing its contacts).

    Why Google doesn't like SIMs? I have the 4G Theory: Gingerbread Google Gets Greedy

  2. A.Nonymous

    A.Nonymous Well-Known Member

    Umm, because you can easily store your stuff in the cloud and it's always with you no matter which phone you're using?
  3. No_u

    No_u Well-Known Member

    Lol I store all my contacts with Google, it works great. Just like calendar sync, gmail etc.. Oh, and I use Dropbox for almost all my school documents.

    I <3 the cloud!

    Some people exaggerate..
  4. rui-no-onna

    rui-no-onna Well-Known Member

    If you're just borrowing someone's phone (which may not even be a smartphone), the "cloud" isn't always a good solution. Even if the girlfriend has an Android smartphone, it's not a good idea to just add your account to her phone so you have access to your contacts.
    I'm pretty sure Android gives you the option to export contacts to SIM card, though, which is good enough for me. Then again, my Thrive's still on Froyo. :p
  5. wayrad

    wayrad Well-Known Member

    Not all Android phones have a SIM card...
    alostpacket likes this.
  6. zogoibi

    zogoibi Member

    You can't access the cloud:
    1.- If you don't have an internet connection, for whatever reason, or simply you have an expensive data plan.
    2.- If you're not using a smartphone.
    3.- If you're using certain smartphones.
    4.- If you don't want your phonebook be in the hands of God-knows-why.
    5.- If you run out of battery and have to borrow someone's phone.
    6.- If you're roaming and you don't earn over $5000 a month. ;)
    7.- Etc.
    There can be one hundred reasons for not using the cloud, or not being able to use it in a given moment. And, in any case, why should our possibilities be narrowed down, instead of widened?

    And some other people are very simple. My post isn't about "one hundred reasons to love the cloud" (which I'm sure there are), but about "give me just ONE good reason to disregard the possibility of storing my contacts and messages in my sim".

    Yes, with Froyo you have this option. With Gingerbread, not any more. You have to install an app, and doesn't work very well.

    Well, not all drivers can use their legs. Therefore, should we remove the pedals from all cars? :p

    Not all smartphones, in general, have a SIM card, but still all of them except Gingerbread offer you the possibility of storing data there.
  7. zuben el genub

    zuben el genub Well-Known Member

    Can you still use the memory card? I'm on Froyo, but I can save to SIM, TMO, (any TMO user can), phone and card. Once they are saved to the PC, I can get to them at any time by importing.
  8. rui-no-onna

    rui-no-onna Well-Known Member

    That's not true. I've yet to find a way to do this on iOS. Yeah, bad example. :p

    You're right, though. No good reason to have removed that functionality.
  9. A.Nonymous

    A.Nonymous Well-Known Member

    1. It takes all of about a minute or two to sync your data from the cloud to your phone. It does not take tons of data. You need a data connection to set the phone up in the first place anyway or you can't put your Google account on it at all.

    2. If you don't have a smartphone than this question is irrelevant.

    3. If you have a smartphone that lacks the capability of communicating with the Internet, then it's not a smart phone and the question is irrelevant.

    4. Don't have a clue what this means. You'd rather lose your entire phonebook if you drop your phone in a puddle?

    5. If friend asks if they can borrow my phone I'll let them borrow it. No problem. The second my friend starts popping my SIM card out of my phone, I'm going to put the kibosh on the whole thing. No one is going to let you borrow their phone because your battery is dead and let you swap SIM cards just so you can make one call.

    6. Not sure how this is relevant. Does your contact information change 24/7/365? Mine doesn't. So if you're roaming and not syncing, no big deal. You still have access to your information and it's still current. If it changes, then you can do a manual sync when you connect to wifi somewhere. Or you can manually update the information on your phone. I'd like to see someone run up a $5000 bill for roaming and syncing their Google contacts and nothing else.

    You do realize that you don't need 24/7 access to the cloud in order to access your information right? It's not like you lose Internet access and all of sudden all your contacts are gone. You've used an Android phone before right?
  10. A.Nonymous

    A.Nonymous Well-Known Member

    I've got a phone running GB and I have the option to save my contacts to just the phone. I have no SIM card on my phone so it's not the best example though.
  11. Yeahha

    Yeahha Usually off topic VIP Member

    By having the contacts backed up in the cloud it offers more possibilities for the user. If you change phones and can't use your current SIM in the new phone without cloud storage you lose your contacts. On any rom I use (all GB by the way) I can store my contact info on my SIM, I choose not to but the option is there.
  12. rui-no-onna

    rui-no-onna Well-Known Member

    More common than you think. Back when I was in high school, practically everyone was on a prepaid plan so usage was carefully monitored. Folks were more likely to lend you their phone provided with the SIM already taken out than have you use up their precious load. Granted, swapping SIM cards wasn't really a big deal back then when folks only had a Nokia 3310. Now with smartphones essentially being crippled unless synced to cloud services, the landscape may be different.
  13. chanchan05

    chanchan05 The Doctor Guide

    1. Samsung phones have "Export to SIM" option. Cant say for other brands.

    2. Hell I'd let anyone remove my SIM on my phone, and they're in for a rude surprise if they put their SIM into it. Most people have very limited data plans, or in my country not at all. Given that I have everything on sync, and at times use up more than a gig per day on usage, they'll see their bill sky rocket if they try to put their SIM in my phone for a time.

    3. SIM storage is pretty much useless. It can only handle one number per contact, and well, each of my contact has an email, a few notes and more than a few numbers, basically may SIM storage useless for me.
    novox77 and Slug like this.
  14. Slug

    Slug Check six! Moderator

    Probably for the same reason that 99.9% of users don't like them either.... they're too limited. SIM storage won't let you store multiple numbers, email addresses, home/work postal addresses etc under a single contact entry. They're also much more limited in the number of contacts that can be stored.

    Btw, your assertion that Android is free is incorrect. The OS is licensed by the handset manufacturers for inclusion in their devices, so you're paying for it indirectly when you purchase the handset. It's possible to use the core OS without the requirement for a license but that specifically excludes the core Google apps such as Android Market, Gmail, Gtalk etc.
    aysiu and novox77 like this.
  15. rui-no-onna

    rui-no-onna Well-Known Member

    Don't really need all my contacts stored on SIM card - just some select ones in case of emergency. Heck, the reason I even moved my parents to Android is to take advantage of contact syncing. I've gotten tired of having to do batch copies of their contacts whenever they switch phones (feature phones usually hold around 500~1000, SIM cards only 100~250).
  16. Guamguy

    Guamguy Well-Known Member

    HTC has import/export to SD card. However, no import/export to SIM. The way HTC does handle contacts, with Friendstream and autolinks, creates a database to big to be saved on a SIM.
  17. mikedt

    mikedt 你好 Guide

    Lose your phone = lose your SIM = lose all your contacts.

    About the privacy concerns, well if someone finds or has stolen your phone along with the SIM, then there probably is a very serious 'keeping your privacy' issue for you. AFAIK SIMs can't be remotely erased, and nor do they have any kind of password or other security for any personal information stored on then.
  18. A.Nonymous

    A.Nonymous Well-Known Member

    I have a DInc2 running GB. When I go to create a contact I have the option of creating it on the SIM. I'm not sure the initial premise of the argument holds much water.
  19. Slug

    Slug Check six! Moderator

    Ditto on my GS2. My DZ, running a custom version of the T-Mobile G2 ROM, only allows importing from SIM however, while my Hero (with a CM7-based ROM) has no SIM-related options at all.
  20. Jersey Tom

    Jersey Tom Well-Known Member

    In the 10 years I've had cell phones, I've never had any need or desire to screw around with / swap / move SIM cards. Don't see myself ever needing to either.

    As for the article... long-winded and lacking in brevity, seems steeped in conspiracy theory malarkey.
    danaj likes this.
  21. rui-no-onna

    rui-no-onna Well-Known Member

    Actually, I seem to recall being able to put a 4 digit pin on the SIM card on my old Nokia. Forgotten how that works exactly.
  22. zogoibi

    zogoibi Member

    In Froyo you can. In barebones Gingerbread you can't.

    :) Not that bad, considering that all of it it's true except for -maybe- iOS. One rotten element in the set doesn't change much the validity of the example. :p

    1.- Wrong. If we come to this, then you don&#8217;t need a data connection for &#8220;setting up the phone in the first place anyway&#8221;. Froyo is perfectly usable when roaming without spending a single cent on data. Why Gingerbread isn't? (By the way, &#8220;a minute or two&#8221; when roaming data can be up to several dollars, depending where.)
    2.- Wrong. There are a number of scenarios where you could temporarily be in need to insert your android-contacts-less SIM into a dumphone. So the question is relevant.
    3.- Same as #2. Anyhow, if you sync your contacts to your Gmail account and then you get yourself a Nokia (for instance), I&#8217;m not sure that you can &#8220;sync back&#8221; your contacts from Gmail.
    4.- Sure. You can also lose your contacts if Billy the Kid shoots you and hits your phone. Anyhow, if you really &#8220;don&#8217;t have a clue what my point means&#8221;, are you sure you've understood at all what my whole post is about?
    5.- Wrong. There are many possible scenarios where friends or acquaintances would certainly lend you their phones, but not their SIM credit.
    6.- When you&#8217;re roaming, often you&#8217;re also making lots of new acquaintances and storing a bunch of new numbers in your phonebook, but perhaps you can&#8217;t afford roaming data for syncing. Also, not always free wi-fi is available. I guess, if you make 5 grand you can afford it, but maybe even yet you prefer to not pay for syncing.

    In any case, none of your retorts is a good reason to neglect the possibility of storing to SIM. You do realize that there are a huge variety of possible situations where it would be convenient to have contacts in your SIM, and that you might need your information when the cloud isn&#8217;t there, right? You&#8217;ve been able to imagine a different situation than yours before, right?

    2.- What about borrowing someone's dumbphone? Most of my friends, for example, don't have a smartphone.
    3.- You mean it's useless... for you, right? But you're aware that there are 100 million Android users in the world, aren't you?

    99,9% of users don't like SIM storage? Hmm... really intersting. Where did you get this statistics? I'd very much like to read it. Or did you make a poll yourself?

    Btw: I'm not into technical details about Android licensing, but I guess it's not hard to understand what I mean when saying it's free. At the very least, it's open source. And in any case, that was the less relevant part of my post. :) By no means a good reason for neglecting SIM storage.

    Have you ever considered the possibility of someone syncing his contacts to his computer? This way, lose your phone = lose your sim =/= lose all your contacts.

    SIMs can be locked by a password, of course.
    On the other hand, if I get my phone stolen AND I have my contacts in the cloud, I still have the same serious 'keeping my privacy issue' you mention. Anyhow, let me see if I've got well your idea: you're kind of suggesting that, as someone can peep through some hole into your home, why should you put net curtains to your windows anyhow? Better give away your privacy in advance. Is this right?

    Maybe it only holds a little water, but you could get drown on it: as far as I know, GB powered phones don't offer the option of creating a contact on the SIM. Take a look at the wishlist in this forums: one of the things people are asking to Android is to restore the Froyo's "store to SIM" capability.
  23. chanchan05

    chanchan05 The Doctor Guide

    wrong. I know several people using Gingerbread phones with all data turned off

    I couldnt even think of any scenario where I would do such a thing. I would never put my sim in another person's phone whatever happens (unless perhaps its a great emergency). That's just wrong. You are practically depriving a person of moments when he may need to receive emergency calls. Thats plain unethical by my book.

    Sure you can. Symbian supported sync with Google Calendar and Google Contacts even before Nexus One was sold in the market. Not to mention that even with the new Windows Phones, you can import Google Contacts to Windows Live Contacts, as well as other Google data.

    The only way my contacts are forever lost is if Windows servers, Google servers, both my phones and all 4 computers in the house break down. Pretty unlikely barring an end of the world scenario. This would also be likely for most people who cloud sync

    Again, there are many instances where people would not let you borrow their phones, but ok, lets say I would borrow someone's phone and my SIM has no contacts. I have credit. Ok lets go browse the internet to Gmail and look at my contacts there. Even feature phones have web browsers now. Opera Mini was specifically designed for use first on dumbphones.

    Hotels would almost always have free wifi. You dont need to be actively syncing to use Google contacts as well. You can have your phone saving all contacts as Google contacts even when data is turned off. It will sync the moment you connect to wifi though, so roaming is still no problem.

    In any case, none of your retorts is a good reason to neglect the possibility of storing to SIM. You do realize that there are a huge variety of possible situations where it would be convenient to have contacts in your SIM, and that you might need your information when the cloud isn&#8217;t there, right? You&#8217;ve been able to imagine a different situation than yours before, right?

    As I've implicated prior, it would take a great emergency for me to borrow a friend's phone to put my sim in, its not me. Furthermore, even if I borrow a dumphone, its no problem. Even 4 year old dumbphones have web browsers. I can always Go to Gmail to check my contacts.

    and you are aware that millions of users also stores more than just the name and one number per contact right? In that case, SIM storage is useless for those millions of users as well.

    Besides, there is one thing you have not considered with the removal of SIM support on plain Google Android: Android 4.0 Ice Cream Sandwich.

    Android 4.0 is supposed to be the unification of phone and tablet OS. Now you would know that several tablets and a few phones do not use SIM cards. Retaining the SIM card functionality would create an added feature which is not in general use, especially with the capability to sync contacts to several places already available. So plain Google just removed it and its one less thing for them to worry about. Manufacturers often add it in anyway, so it would not be much of an issue unless you get a Nexus device.
  24. zogoibi

    zogoibi Member

    Pontificating and conceited. There are over 4 Billion cell phone users in the world; just because you haven't ever... doesn't mean that...

    As for the article, if those are the strongest arguments you can oppose to it, then it's standing fast.
  25. chanchan05

    chanchan05 The Doctor Guide

    Oh, and one more thing. I find it actually ridiculous that someone is afraid that their internet connected phone could be sending data to the internet that they dont know about, and yet they're using computers. Computers have far more greater capability to do that than cellphones. How do you know Microsoft does not have a copy of your porn stash up there?

    If your phone is capable of remotely transmitting your data, your computer more so. The moment you used the internet, or made an email address, you are on the grid already, so personally, I dont really see the difference anymore.

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