the big question...General


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  1. chuckk

    chuckk New Member This Topic's Starter

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    Hi - I've been lurking this bb for a while looking for information on OS versions for my HTC Droid Eris. I figured it was about time I started participating in the discussions.

    About a month ago I found a tech blog post that described how to update/root to 2.1 for Eris, complete with a link to a download of the ZIP update. I did so thinking it sounded fun and whatever... I can always switch back if it sucks.

    This blog post that I found failed on several accounts.
    1. It didn't tell me to back up data
    2. It didn't disclose that Droid doesn't allow users to flash back to previous OS versions
    3. The link to the download wasn't root, but actually leak 2.1 v2, which sucks


    So, for the last month I've been frustrated with the leak OS version on my phone, waiting for the official 2.1 OTA to come out. It finally did 2 weeks ago, only for me to learn that I can't update from a Leak 2.1 to the Official 2.1 either.

    So, after getting caught up in all the frustration, I started wondering if anyone removed themselves from the stress of OS updates long enough to ask some bigger questions...

    Why?

    Why would a provider (Verizon) release a device that sells itself on the premise of open-source data and user customization, but not actually support said open-source customization?

    Moreover, why would a phone manufacturer (HTC) release a product that can't be easily rolled back to previous system versions?

    I mean, I like my phone.
    But this lack of support and the counter-intuitiveness (aka: "bullshit") surrounding the OS updates makes me miss my Blackberry. Could you imagine if you bought a computer from Dell and the second you tried to update the OS on your own, they stopped supporting you? Or better, if you updated from Vista to Windows 7, decided 7 sucked, had no way of going back to Vista, and Dell told you to get lost when you came looking for help?

    Why do things with my phone have to be this stupid???
     

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  2. thenestor

    thenestor Well-Known Member

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    If you're stuck on leak v2, you should at least upgrade to leak v3 because it has some minor bug fixes. Also, you'll then be running the same software version as the OTA, so Verizon won't question you about it if you have a hardware issue and need warranty replacement.
     
  3. MOS95B

    MOS95B Well-Known Member

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    Why? Because Verizon has to try to support this product. And if it were as open as a real computer, they'd never be able to provide any sort of tech support

    These are phones first and foremost, not portable computers, and Verizon is a phone company. And Verizon's support staff is trained accordingly. If they allowed the type of changes you want, they would never be able to offer the type of suypport people would end up needing.

    You want true open source? Stick to PCs. You want the ability to run apps on your phone, you're in the rgiht place...
     
  4. chuckk

    chuckk New Member This Topic's Starter

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    Thanks for the tip. After all of the BS I've experienced updating my phone, I've grown hesitant to try another unofficial OS.

    If I update to 2.1v3, will I eventually be able to update to the official 2.2?
    That would seem to make sense considering the whole issue is with sequential versions. But then again, I was told at one point that I'd be able to update from leak 2.1v2 to official 2.1, and that was a lie.

    Still, why is the update model so stringent? I'm sure there's a geek explanation, but it just seems absolutely STUPID from a consumer standpoint.
     
  5. MOS95B

    MOS95B Well-Known Member

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    We have no valid information as to whether the Eris will even get the 2.2 update as of yet, so no one can answer that question honestly.

    As to the update model, it is so stringent to assist Verizon in supporting it. Lot's of people who own smart phones (i.e., my wife) have no real business owning one. So, you get those people, the people that think they know what they are doing, and the ineveitable true hardware or software issue, allow them all to upgrade, downgrade, or modify their OS at will, and Verizon (or any other company) is screwed trying to provide support.

    If they control the OS, they always have the factory reset option to test software before replacing the hardware.
     
  6. chuckk

    chuckk New Member This Topic's Starter

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    Well, I've worked in tech support for 10+ years. The last 4 years have been spent in application support at (a going nameless Fortune 500). One of the apps I support depends heavily on Adobe Acrobat Reader. We currently support Acrobat Reader 9.3, as that's what our application has been tested for.
    Now, on occasion Adobe releases newer versions of their product available to download, and our users in the field will see this and update their version before we're able to run any testing on it. And it will cause problems.
    When this comes up, 99% of the time resolving their issue is as simple as ROLLING BACK their software version to what we support.

    Considering how simple that is, I can't accept that it's impossible for Verizon to take a call from a leaker and say, "ok, well I see you're running an OS that we don't support. Let's get you on the official OS and see if you still have the same problem..." ?

    Thus, is it Verizon implementing this stringent sequential update policy? Or are they handcuffed in their support model because of a developmental oversight?
     
  7. MrChips

    MrChips Active Member

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    So you installed something on your phone that you were not sure what it was, then when it didn't turn out to be all you wanted it to be you call BS. The "counter-intuitiveness" being them not supporting you installing an unofficial upgrade instead of waiting for the official one that they do support?

    Sorry, not feeling it.

    >Could you imagine if you bought a computer from Dell and the second you tried to update the OS on your own, they stopped supporting you?

    Yes I could. If I bought the computer for a mere fraction of the cost it took to make and the agreement was that the OS was locked - sure. The model didn't work but it has certainly been tried before - look up PeoplePC.
     
  8. chuckk

    chuckk New Member This Topic's Starter

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    @MrChips - I'd be willing to accept your answer if Droid devices weren't marketed by Verizon for being, not only user-friendly, but also friendly for open-source tinkering and development. By all means, it was too easy for me to **** up my phone the way I did. And the fact that Verizon will no longer support my phone because I ****ed it up is in staunch contrast to their marketing of the phone.

    I'm asking questions about the paradigm they've set up. All you're telling me is that what I did conflicts with the paradigm they've set up.

    YOU GOTTA THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX, MAAAAAAAAN..... ;-)
     
  9. thenestor

    thenestor Well-Known Member

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    If there's ever an official 2.2, you won't be any less capable of getting it on leak v3 than you are on leak v2.

    You can update from leak 2.1v2 to the "official 2.1": 2.1v3 IS the "official 2.1". Same software, just delivered to your phone differently. The only difference between a phone running the 2.1 OTA and a phone running the "leak v3" is that the latter phone is running a newer bootloader, so it can't be rooted.
     
  10. MrChips

    MrChips Active Member

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    >friendly for open-source tinkering and development.
    It is. You can freely create apps for it. They set limits to it that you don't like and that is that they control the operating system. I do not like this either - but understand it from being their customer for over ten years now - that is how they operate. You say you work in support - so do I. Would you not agree that there is a price to your company for your services? If your customers started altering your program in unauthorized ways - wouldn't your management crack down and not waste their money (your time) on that issue? Mine would, in fact we would charge them to fix the mess they created without our consent.

    >the fact that Verizon will no longer support my phone
    There is plenty of anecdotal evidence that this statement is untrue.
     
  11. mdeblaz

    mdeblaz Well-Known Member

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    and one would assume that a newer bootloader is a better one... right? So then the question is why didn't Verizon update the bootloader with the OTA?

    My answer is: So people could still, with an official OS, root their phones!... and there you go, open-source is still going strong...
     

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