The unintended consequences of UnrEVOked...


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  1. FestoKGB

    FestoKGB Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    I waited a long time before I rooted. I read thread after thread and compiled as much information as I could and even then I waited because the rooting methods just seemed fraught with potential pitfalls and complications. Then along came unrEVOked3 and it all seemed so easy. No adb shell? No command line? No multiple file downloads and flashes? Sounded great, so I jumped. I've been happy ever since. I'm still glad I waited as long as I did because I was able to stand on the shoulders of others and avoid so many mistakes.

    Unfortunately, it seems like the success of unrevoked has allowed so many others to take the rooting leap with little or no understanding of what comes after. In my memory, the "All Things Root" section before unrevoked (BU) was filled with advanced issues and lots of android/linux geek speak. Now after unrevoked (AU) there seems to be many more people with basic, rudimentary issues. At least it appears that way to me.

    I'm glad to see that unrevoked opened the door for more people to enjoy this wonderful device in a new and deeper way. But I wonder if the downside is that more people are getting themselves in deep water before they have even learned how to swim.

    Please don't take this as a high-minded rant because I am far from an expert on Android or rooting. I'm just hate seeing folks struggling with their rooting experience when they could have avoided so much of it with just a little more due diligence at the front end.

    I'm also curious to see if more people opening up root access to their phone OS will lead to more Android viruses. Apparently it is the lack of easy root access that keeps linux related viruses to a minimum.

    Ok, I've been at work too long today...

    Sorry if I offended anyone.
     

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  2. wrapkgb

    wrapkgb Well-Known Member

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    Regardless androidforums should be considered somewhere you can post a thread hen you are having troubles WITHOUT being flamed for it. This forum is by FAR the most user friendly place out there. I have seen some questions that have been asked where if this was XDA or android central they would never post ever again... however the replies people get here are straight forward and to the point. Anyone who has questions should not be scared to ask. We all started somewhere and I am more than happy to help because I remember when I first started there were tons of people who helped me out big time! With that said have fun rooting people and if you get stuck or lost there will always be someone at this forum willing to help!
     
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  3. wrapkgb

    wrapkgb Well-Known Member

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    Oh and yes people should defiantly read the thread noted in the signature of the op! Lots of useful information.
     
  4. FestoKGB

    FestoKGB Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    I agree wholeheartedly and I hope that nothing I wrote implied differently. I have been helped tremendously by this forum and as a result I try to be as helpful to others as I can.
     
  5. wrapkgb

    wrapkgb Well-Known Member

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    please don't think I was calling you out or disagreeing with anything you said. I understand completely with what you wrote and meant for my post to add to yours! :)
     
  6. AndroidSPCS

    AndroidSPCS Well-Known Member

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    What kind of issues are people having after root?
     
  7. wake69

    wake69 Well-Known Member

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    flashing roms, kernels, wiping data and caches, booting into recovery, unable to understand what a pc36img is how to update radios and stuff. The problems that we didnt have to the extent that they are now if we used toasts method.
     
  8. jamesdean

    jamesdean Well-Known Member

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    OK, I'll be one of those with questions. I have been reading these threads for the last couple of days but quite frankly I am overwhelmed with the choices available for rooting.

    The unrevoked route seems like it may be the easiest way to go but even there is the choice of forever along with a large list a warnings.

    My main objective is to keep the stock look and feel but have the ability to remove some of the Sprints apps that I do not need or want, to improve battery life and the ability to use the hot spot.

    Any suggestions in that direction would be greatly appreciated.
     
  9. uniquenameEVO

    uniquenameEVO Well-Known Member

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    This.

    Honestly, I think it isn't easy rooting that is the issue...it is the doors it opens.

    If Joe wants to root so he can use a few apps, run a backup and tether...easy is great.

    If Joe roots because he is told he should, then tries to flash his wimax radio because he is told he should, and then flash [insert rom here], because "it's best". Who is at fault when Joe has no RSA keys, is stuck in a boot loop, and completely frustrated?

    This problem is not unique to android and rooting. Readily accessible information is a double edged sword. Many people read "enough to get by" or less.
     
  10. FestoKGB

    FestoKGB Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    QFT

    If someone developed a 3 step method to tune up your car at home, then mechanics would be overwhelmed with work fixing what the "armchair technician" screwed up.

    Reading is fundamental in this rooting game. Yesterday I tried to fix an issue I've been having with my wireless tether speeds by deleting a file that was suggested here and on the google/android forum. Of course it hosed my tether connection completely but thankfully I knew how to remedy the situation because I read more than just the initial "fix".

    "...and in all your getting, get understanding" Proverbs 4:7
     
  11. tmwilsoniv

    tmwilsoniv Well-Known Member

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    Well said. What I find most interesting is to see someone with posts to this forum numbering well into the hundreds, asking the most rudimentary of questions.
     
  12. wake69

    wake69 Well-Known Member

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    Yes and no. I rooted launch day +3 and used toasts method. Had to be comfortable with adb and bootloader and recovery. This was MANDATORY to root at the time. Simpleroot came next and it still took a small amt of work to use but def a lot easier. Now you have 1 click root and then you are done. you are given no explanation of adb, bootloader or recovery. So you are alone in the dark an that is what causes multiple questions with the same question in the OP. I am not saying i mind helping out because i help even with the same question answered 2 posts down but these people being blindly rooted is the problem. They dont know enough about the root process to understand whqat they are doing to their phone, they think, "Hey i can get free wireless tether" and be done when there is a little more to this than bam and done. Then you have issues with the "novice" rooter taking OTA updates, losing recovery having s still off and lose the engineering bootloader and are just about bricked. Any ways it is imo that one click roots are a lot of the problem almost as much as the uneducated rooter
     
  13. TF1984

    TF1984 Well-Known Member

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    Yes this is exactly the problem. There's frankly too many ways to do any one task with your phone. Plus there's hundreds of "tasks" that users may want. Which leaves us with a million possibilities to get to one of a hundred final destinations.

    I would recommend to you personally not to use unrevoked. READ this thread [GUIDE] How to root Android 2.2 on the EVO 4G - xda-developers for as long and as many times as it takes to actually understand in principle what you are doing. Then, read this HTC Supersonic/ROMs - XDA-Developers and decide what type of look you want.

    I would suggest you download the stock rom that is already rooted. Then use ADB (tutorial here Ultimate Guide to Removing Apk's and Odex's and Replacement Application Options ) to remove what you don't want.
     
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  14. sintricate

    sintricate Well-Known Member

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    Call me crazy but I think it's weird for someone to post this rant and then have a link to the android rooting guide for dummies in their sig...
     
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  15. FestoKGB

    FestoKGB Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Won't call you crazy at all. I certainly don't feel it was a rant but I knew that it wouldn't be long before someone put that label on it. I wanted to spark some conversation about some of the downsides to the one-click root process. I don't have anything against a simple root process - I even stated that I used unrevoked to root my phone - I just think that the ease of the process can lead to those who are uninformed and unprepared getting themselves into trouble.

    The rooting guide for dummies has a lot of valuable information and links to other resources on xda. If some folks followed that guide BEFORE they started the root process they would be much further along. Of course the more involved method REQUIRES you to have greater understanding before proceeding.

    But let's face it, you don't have to be a genius to properly navigate the rooting process. You just need to be informed and know what to do and what not to do. This applies no matter what method you use.
     
  16. wrapkgb

    wrapkgb Well-Known Member

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    This is becoming a little ridiculous... First and foremost the fact of matter is anyone can root there phone regardless of how much knowledge they have about rooting. There is nothing we can do about that. Regardless of the method you choose to root, if you do NOT do your due diligence of reading, either way you have the possibility of messing something because you don't know what your doing. Toasts method is done through abd; however, I would still argue if you didn't do any reading prior, what are you learning? All you know is your pushing some random files on your phone using copy/paste. Im not saying any root method is better than the other... All Im saying is yes people should do the reading before attempting root but its not a perfect world. What would be the point of this forum without all the questions??? It would be boring. Like I said before people should not be afraid to ask anything is this forum. My advice before asking any question is to always search, but if your still stuck, ask away. The fact of the matter is "noob" questions are never going to stop. And what makes a "noob" question? What makes someone a "noob"? Who knows and who cares because we are all here for the same thing.. the EVO 4G. I enjoy this forum and the people who reside here because there is lots of knowledge around here! Lets keep this forum bitchin! Anyways not trying to stir the pot... I just don't want people to turn away and be afraid here! :)

    So on a lighter note... Has anyone seen Earlymon around???? I swear I dont think I've seen him post for months!
     
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  17. uniquenameEVO

    uniquenameEVO Well-Known Member

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    He's hanging out in the mod only forums these days :(

    I don't know for sure, but I miss the guy too.
     
  18. Matlock

    Matlock Well-Known Member

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    Lol, he has moved onto bigger and better things! WILL MISS YA!!!

    Here is my definition of a Noob that I prefer.

    If someone calls you a Noob (Newb, Newbie, Noo, Novice, ext.), you tell them HELL YEAH I AM! And soon to be more experienced with every question I ask. ;)

    And REMEMBER! Everyone was a Noob at one point. ;)
     
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  19. wake69

    wake69 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly
     
  20. jamesdean

    jamesdean Well-Known Member

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    Especially since those hundreds of posts except one have nothing to do with rooting.
     
  21. AndroidSPCS

    AndroidSPCS Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if this is the right way to go about it or not.

    I bet most of the people who do things via the "manual" method, probably have zero idea of what the command lines they're typing into the adb shell, and just blindly follow along.

    Problem is rooting is a complex topic, and it is beyond the capability / knowledge of most people. They do it because they can follow one sentence at a time, but they will not really grasp what they are doing since they don't understand the entire concepts.

    The xda threads sometimes make things worse because there are so much techno speak but rarely put things into layman's terms. When I rooted my Evo / Epic I had to stop and ask basic question in threads where people posted things like "here's xdar32335243563.raf file..." and I'm like "WTF is this, and what does it do??"

    I consider myself pretty computer literate and even I had problems understanding a lot of the threads on XDA / SDX.
     
  22. AndroidSPCS

    AndroidSPCS Well-Known Member

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    I think this is a faulty assumption because I reviewed Toast's thread prior to using Unrevoked on my Evo, and I didn't even understand half of the things that were listed in there.

    For my Epic, however, I did the rooting manually, and not the 1-click root, but even so there were a ton of questions that I had that simply were not easily answered or explained.

    I'm a PC / Linux geek but even I find the techno speak and lack of layman's explanation about what the steps do to be pretty tough to understand. And I have asked a lot of questions and did hours and hours of research to try to understand. I feel like I know things a little better, but it is still not where I'd like it to be, and nor do I feel like it should be taking that vast amount of time reading hundreds and hundreds of posts to try to figure a small % out.

    People who advocate using a manual method over an automated method probably have an under-appreciation of how complex the issue is and how hard this stuff looks to the average person, never mind the average person who has never done command line.

    I grew up with DOS and did command lines for a very long time, but even for me a lot of the stuff on rooting is beyond my knowledge, simply because it is not well explained and not easily available in a central place.
     
  23. jamesdean

    jamesdean Well-Known Member

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    Bingo, I also grew up with DOS, I debated CPM vs DOS 1.0 as my first operating system. The problem I am having is not as much the technical issues but the overwhelming amount of ways to accomplish the same thing, hence my question above.
     
  24. AndroidSPCS

    AndroidSPCS Well-Known Member

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    Yes I know exactly what you mean.

    A lot of people on SDX / XDA take it for granted that other people reading the threads are as knowledgeable as they are about the contents, and thus fail to stop and even give the most basic rudimentary explanations on what the thread is about or what individual steps do.

    After rooting 3 different phones - Moment, Evo, Epic, I don't think that one way is superior to another. Bottom line is your phone is rooted, and that's the most important thing.

    The amount of explained and unexplained information is overwhelming. I try to help others as much as I can, just like Matlock and others.

    Here's a thread as an example of how hard it can be for people to try to understand even basic concepts: http://androidforums.com/android-lounge/204216-there-difference-between-terms-os-rom.html
     
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  25. FestoKGB

    FestoKGB Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Sounds like Ye' Olde Paralysis By Analysis. :)

    All jokes aside, I would suggest you find a method that is most comfortable for you. The reality is that the "manual" method is no more effective than one-click at achieving the desired result - a rooted device. It comes down to which method you are most comfortable with and having as much understanding of the consequences as you are comfortable with.
     
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