We can't have "green" in our systems but we can be alcoholics


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  1. inssane

    inssane Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    I always thought that it was interesting and unfair for many people that you get tested for drugs preemployment and I pot is in your system you don't get the job but if you are an alcoholic you are OK. I get the fact that there is no alcoholic test. It just seems that people that enjoy pot are judged and banned. Coke crack heroin - those are different in regards to the workplace IMHO.
    Alcohol is a drug too and I would rather a coworker be a little tired (not high) than hung over the whole morning.

    Maybe I am alone in this thought and I don't need to get on a soapbox.
    Care to discuss?
     

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  2. skwerm

    skwerm Well-Known Member

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    Legalize it
     
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  3. Snow_Fox

    Snow_Fox Well-Known Member

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    Your argument is horrible.

    First, don't try to gain sympathy for a cause dealing with drugs such as weed, and then look down on other drugs like heroine or coke.

    You want us to give you sympathy but, you look down on other drugs, it is disgusting.

    Second, if coke and heroine were legal they would not cause as many problems as they do.

    If you remember prohibition, alcohol was illegal and *MORE* people did it. The problem escalated, crime escalated and it was horrible.

    If heroine was legalized, it would be far safer than even alcohol.

    Right now, heroine ruins lives for the following reasons.

    A. Addicts are looked down upon.
    B. Drugs are more expensive because, they are illegal.
    C. There is no standard for purity, you can't tell how much what has been cut and re cut.

    Right now because heroine is illegal, there is very low supply meaning prices are way higher than they would ever be if it was legal. If it was legalized, companies could sell heroine legally which means companies are going to compete. Competition drives down prices.

    If heroine was affordable people would not go bankrupt paying for it and could lead normal lives. They would not have to worry about lapsing into withdrawl because they can't afford it, or when and where to get their next hit.

    You would be surprised how much time is spent just trying to make sure you have enough to prevent withdrawls.

    Next, Everyone has an addiction, most are legal. Some people are addicted to video games, others are addicted to work. People literaly ruin their lives with legal addictions. Most people however, balance life out just fine.

    However, no don't get on a soap box for your cause and your cause alone. If you want to get on a soap box, you can't complain about being judged, and then judge other people. That is not the way to go about it.

    Alcohol was illegal at one point in time too. Look at how that ended. Crime escalated exponentially.

    The one difference between illegal drugs now and alcohol, is enough people did alcohol so it became legal again.

    If we really want to stop the illegal drug trade, only option is to legalize it.

    Think about *how* much money is wasted on swat teams/paramilitary forces.

    Honestly we go on about how free speech is our most basic right.

    I disagree, Control over our bodies is the most basic right.

    I should have the ability to ingest whatever I want but, legally I don't have the rights to my own body anymore :/.

    And don't give me any line of crap about how people "endanger others" on drugs. Alcohol brings out more raw emotions than any other drug out there. People are more dangerous on alcohol than heroine.(assuming the same conditions). And alcohol is legal. If people endanger others, handle it on a case by case basis don't make all drugs illegal.

    Final note. Drug dealers want drugs to be illegal. As long as drugs are illegal, there is a very low supply and a very high demand. So they can charge whatever they want.

    Should we really vote with the drug dealers?

    If people can live respectable lives on alcohol, there is no reason anyone should be judged for any other drug they do.

    I'm tired of how our entire mind set is to descriminate against "drug addicts" alcohol IS a drug. But, we call them "alcoholics" not "addicts".
     
  4. inssane

    inssane Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    First, it was hardly an argument. There is no need for splitting hairs between "alcoholics" and "addicts". You can be addicted to weed too, non physiological in most cases.
    It seems like I nicked a personal nerve with the alcoholic umbrella, but it wasn't meant in harm.

    I am in agreement with legalization and this is the point I am trying to draw without going into a soapbox rant. Parts of CA make so much money that the tax income alone via legalization would be astronomical.

    Sex addicts, video game addicts, and many others can function properly at work - and so can some alcoholics, or alcohol addicts as it is. My focused point is that people, in the case of pot, can function just as well if not better in some cases than people with an alcohol addiction, yet are discriminated against.
    A person that smoked pot all night may be tired in the morning, versus a person who drank all night has a higher case of calling in sick or poor performance based on a physical hangover.

    I hope you understand my point better now.
     
  5. Snow_Fox

    Snow_Fox Well-Known Member

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    I don't give two ****s about alcohol. I understood your point perfectly.

    Mine point is legalize heroine. I don't care what your feeling are towards pot. My point is don't get on a soapbox for just the drug you want, and look down on other drugs like heroine or cocaine.
     
  6. bbrosen

    bbrosen Well-Known Member

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    using alcohol is not illegal, pot is. yes it is a drug, but legal, as long as you are not drunk while driving or working. yes there is a test for alcohol, breath and blood.
     
  7. i VTAK

    i VTAK Well-Known Member

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    I'd rather work next to the guy that was smoking pot all last night than the guy who was drinking all night.
     
  8. mrmojoz

    mrmojoz Well-Known Member

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    Wow, wrong forum. Off topic is elsewhere.
     
  9. TheSultan

    TheSultan Well-Known Member

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    how the hell is this "Android" related?? I walked in here thinking "Green" was going to be about android and being addicted to our phones. Then I walk and read an argument against work place drug testing that could be crippled by a junior high debate team!!!!

    Here's the thing, maybe you don't like, and maybe it's not even legitimate of them...BUT, for now, it's the law. If you don't like it, get a job at the counter at Sunoco.
     
  10. zoiko

    zoiko VIP Member VIP Member

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    Just in case anyone wants a sticker...
    inkedcity — Home

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    These are hot sellers out here in California :D wonder why???
     
  11. inssane

    inssane Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Sorry guys - mods can move if needed.

    Snow - good luck with that. I will look down on drugs with physiological addictions if I want. I can't respect your opinion on Heroin, sorry.

    bbrosen - the alcohol test does not go back 30+ days

    sultan - yeah it's illegal and we all have our reasons and opinions on things. If I cared so much I would be working at Starbucks instead :) I have known people who needed rehab for alcoholism and that affects others at a job place and production - but the guy that smokes on the weekends and is sober as a bird during the week can not get a job.

    Eh
     
  12. Snow_Fox

    Snow_Fox Well-Known Member

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    Give me a valid reason to not respect my opinion on heroine.

    You are as hypocritical as the laws your complaining about!
     
  13. inssane

    inssane Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    [​IMG]

    Here is one reason - before and after. Track marks are also an attractive body adornment for the workplace if you choose not to do it under your nails.

    I will be hypocritical if I want, that is why America is great.
    You can't compare heroin to marijuana, nor can you compare short and long term effects. That's like comparing stealing a pen to stealing money at a bank. They both have consequences, but one may leave you dead. Pot makes you lazy and hungry - aside from a potentially fatal withdrawl and the constant risk of a fatal overdose, heroin is ok I guess...

    Apparently you don't like what I have to say so move on please. :rolleyes:
     
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  14. i VTAK

    i VTAK Well-Known Member

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    Slavery was once legal. Did that make it ok? Just because it's the law does not make it correct.
     
  15. Snow_Fox

    Snow_Fox Well-Known Member

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    If heroine was legal, you would not be forced to inject it to get the most out of your supply. :/

    You do realize that 90% of the problems dealing with heroine are due to the fact it is illegal right?

    I am not saying it isn't addictive however, I am saying that it is no worse than alcohol.

    The difference in the picture is nothing worse than someone who has abused alcohol over the years.

    Also let me explain something about over dose.

    Most heroine overdoses are NOT fatal. Infact once you have been using heroine for a reasonable amount of time, odds are you will have over dosed a few times and been perfectly fine.

    What kills people when they over dose, is when they "get clean" stop doing heroine for a while, and start doing heroine again. You lose your tolerance and try to go back to doing the same dose as when you had a tolerance, which kills you.

    The *other* major issue with over doses, is you can't determine purity.

    Think about prohibition. Heroine and alcohol are the same problem same solution.

    Don't believe me? why not ask some police officers!
    LEAP - Law Enforcement Against Prohibition - Cops Say Legalize Drugs

    Sorry if you want to exorcise your right to be a hypocrite, its a free country as you stated, so I will force you to think about that fact and question it constantly as is my "right" in a free country. :D
     
  16. cyn

    cyn Well-Known Member

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    I hope I can put this to bed, legal or not, substance abuse is horrible on families....there is nothing tame about drug or alcohol dependence....both of my parents died from being an alcoholic, I've been around a lot in MICU working IV Team for years and the destruction to those who love them is beyond belief...yes they can test for alcohol...how do you think they get blood levels from autopsies...breath test?

    The REAL issue is...no matter if it's green or not, any time you can't get by a day w/o a drink, pill, or smoking pot, you are in trouble. How you impact those you love has a tremendous ripple effect and harms future generations. It's a Jekel and Hyde story....no such thing as safe use.

    Now I'm going to go find out why my phone isn't switching display when I turn it sideways, Cyn
     
  17. Snow_Fox

    Snow_Fox Well-Known Member

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    Cyn, I am not trying to belittle your parents death, however, I think *any* addiction is a problem. I noticed you mentioned drink/pill/pot. The one problem I have with what your saying is not all addictions are to physical substances.

    People are addicted to working. Think about the kind of people who lose their families because, they keep working not out of need but, because they want to. They don't spend time with their families, they stress excessively, and still keep going.

    This part of the reason I am pro drug to be honest. Addictions come in many forms, we as a society should not be fighting drugs, we should be fighting addiction. Lets face it, people find it the easiest to look down on addicts who have addictions to physical substances.. However, that doesn't mean other people don't kill themselves from sex addictions, work addictions or other forms of addiction.
     
  18. cyn

    cyn Well-Known Member

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    I don't know....I guess we'd have to walk in each other's shoes. Work-a-holics ect all affect families too....and yes there are many addictive behaviors, gambling, spending(my problem) but let me share this w/ you.
    I can't tell you how many times I had to get my mom upstairs before my dates came...when someone is intoxicated, they can be happy, mellow, mean, or anywhere in between. I always knew my parents loved me, but when were drunk, they really aren't "there" and this other person is. They were both dead by the time I was 30...mother was also on tranquilizers. My brother and I were cheated of years we could have enjoyed being w/ them....but remember a drunk really isn't the person you know....a lot of weird bizarre painful actions on their part.
    I think my husband would still be alive if he didn't consume alcohol, he would drink at night while I was sleeping...when he came back to bed, it was a stranger laying next to me....just gave me the creeps. He had 3 heart attacks and was on large doses of procanimide to control arrhythmias and I can't help but believe that wasn't a good mix when our dog woke me up and I found Bill laid out perfectly face down in front of my dresser...his robe was straight not askew, he didn't fall. He left a son who was a sophomore in high school in a lot of pain, our daughter was already out of high school, but it wasn't easy on any of us.
     
  19. Snow_Fox

    Snow_Fox Well-Known Member

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    I still have a way to go before I'm 30. However, I won't be surprised regardless of what happens to my parents.

    I actually have no real memories of my father. An alcoholic I never care to meet. My mom and step dad drink on a daily basis. They have pretty much everything in life they cold want.. or at least access to anything they could want in life.

    The sad part is rather than enjoying life/having hobbies, they drink. I find it the most disgusting waste of humanity that they have nothing they are passionate about. They are not interested in art, mechanics, math, computer science, video games or anything. Heck I've seen them drunk so much, it is hard to tell whether they are drunk or sober, thats how much I've been around it.

    You can't convince an alcoholic they have a problem because, its legal. Infact it becomes hard to argue what an "alcoholic" is when they can stop at any time needed but, choose not to. I have seen my step dad go from drinking probably a case a night, to nothing as soon as my grandfather had a stroke. Three months he went without taking a sip to my knowledge. My grandfather gets out the hospital and he goes right back to drinking.

    There are functioning alcoholics and there are people who don't get addicted to heroine and manage to use it casually. Were it legal, I'd wager you would have functioning heroine addicts.

    With all of this said, My belief is that addiction is the problem. I know someone who works for the same company as I do, who had a heart attack recently that was work related. His wife was even ready to leave him. I won't say he was "addicted" to work the way some people are.. but, *any* addiction usually leads to the same place.. trouble.

    With that said substance addictions are the easiest to point at and usually have the most visible symptoms. However, I firmly believe as a society, we need to fight *all* addiction. Drugs, alcohol, video game, work, anything can be potientally addictive and any addiction can ruin lives.
     
  20. cyn

    cyn Well-Known Member

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    I find no fault in what you said about additive behavior, I've never been around cocaine except a few years ago..my neighbor and I were casual friends and I didn't know he had a history of use....when he got back on it, it was worse than anything I had personally experienced before....I've yet to see where there has been any "safe" use of cocaine or heroine or ice, so really don't go there. Gotta get some work done, Cyn
     
  21. Snow_Fox

    Snow_Fox Well-Known Member

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    Its also not fair to compare people who use cocaine or heroine now to the people who would be using cocaine or heroine, if you walk down to your local walgreens and buy it.

    At the moment to actually get cocaine or heroine you have to find a dealer which alone is dangerous trying to find a "decent" dealer who isn't going to screw you over, mug you or kill you. Next you have to hope what your buying hasn't been cut with something dangerous, even if *your dealer* is trust worthy there is no telling about the people he get it from, for all he knows it is pure. Finally when doing it, you have no idea how much of what you are doing is even the drug you think it is, it could be 50% coke 50% baking soda. Next batch may be 90& baking soda. The huge differences in purity make it even more dangerous.

    Do you notice a trend here? the majority of the problems stemming from these drugs are due to the fact that they are not legal.

    While I do agree that addiction is always going to be a problem.. I believe he picture on Law Enforcement Against Prohibition's website summerizes it best "same problem, same solution" next to a picture of Al Capone and a Drug cartel.

    If you recall prohibition in the 1920's ish time frame. Gangsters pretty much ran the streets of new york, the cops were getting shot at and killed by highly armed very powerful gangs. These gangs only had power because alcohol was illegal in the first place.

    The same is true of heroine/cocaine and other drugs. If they were legal, yes there would still be addiction but, they could at least tax it and pay for recovery for people who have serious addiction as oppose to casual users.
     
  22. cyn

    cyn Well-Known Member

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    Legalize it affect the suppliers, they couldn't charge big prices or maybe they could....Merick or Pfiser could take it over.. One thing for sure, spam would be worse than viagra....

    ...and more people would be hooked....don't kid yourself, there is no safe use of any of the hard core drugs, uppers, downers, sidewayers, heroine, ice and coke, etc. What you suggest....oh never mind..there's no reaching you. Just go talk to NBIC nurses about your idea, you'd get booed off the planet because unborn babies didn't have a choice but be addicted. You are up in the clouds about this idea.

    The other thing.....we aren't the SAME people we were 50 yrs ago...3 or 4 yrs ago, 1/100 had some form of bipolar disorder, sure it's worse now.
     
  23. Snow_Fox

    Snow_Fox Well-Known Member

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    While I do agree it is sad babies are born addicted.

    You are not "reaching me" because you are not making valid arguments. You can repeat "people would be hooked" all you want. However, do you even think about what I am saying?

    I am not pro legalization of drugs because I want to go out and by heroine. Infact I have no desire to do heroine at all.

    I am pro legalization of drugs because, right now the laws do more harm than the actual drugs.

    But, keep in mind. Drug dealers *want* to keep drugs illegal.
     
  24. inssane

    inssane Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    You are comparing pot to heroin. How old are you? This is not a legitimate comparison and that's why I am being a "hypocrite" towards you. "Most" heroin addicts don't overdose, but you can't OD on pot.

    I work with people who have various dependencies, addictions, and mental illness, it's not a joke - and that is what your comparison is making it seem like. People with addictions HAVE preexisting mental illness and the drugs exacerbate the situation. Then the government won't help them when their mental illness gets worse because of the drugs, even if the government doesn't know it's because of drugs. They need an escape.

    I knew I hit a nerve, seeing that you said your parents are alcoholics. I am sorry for that and I hope at one point that they can get help for themselves.
    We do think about what you are saying, and it's too bad that we aren't "reaching you".

    Some people can't see beyond their own point.
     
  25. Snow_Fox

    Snow_Fox Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry your misunderstanding a few things. I am not trying to compare pot to heroine, I'm trying to compare heroine to alcohol.

    Don't be sorry about my parents, what happens to them, is their own business. I really don't care one way or another. If they drink themselves to death let them.

    Your not "reaching" me because you are not refuting any of my arguments...

    You and I at least agree on one thing (great start). People with addictions do have pre existing conditions. That is I think the point I am trying to make more so than any other. To say that heroine/coke/alcohol should be illegal because people abuse it is a futile argument. People abuse video games, work, and everything in life. As disgusting as it is, there are people addicted to killing.

    So long as the focus is on keeping people from getting drugs instead of understanding they they abuse drugs, and treating the source of the problem, everyone is going to suffer.

    I have no desire to compare heroine to pot. However, it does strike a personal cord with me more so than anything else, when people parade about in favor of pot because, its their drug of choice. Alcohol is in my opinion just as bad as heroine. In some ways better in some ways worse. However, alcohol kills 99.9 percent of germs, and people ingest this into their bodies! I mean if that is not disturbing please, explain to me what is.

    Do not misunderstand me, I am not saying that there aren't problems associated with addiction. Drugs cause a lot of problems, and even legalized they would still create problems.

    However, if they were legalized, they could be taxed, and the money gained from taxes could be used to rehabilitate people. Instead of putting them in jail, they could get real help. Instead of billions of dollars being put to arrest drug cartels, thats billions that could go not just to rehab but, to medicine as a whole. Not only is it billions saved, it is profit *from* drugs being taxed.

    I am open to discussion. I do not believe I am always right. I however, do ask that we discuss this with facts, not how we feel on the subject. I do my absolute best to keep emotions completely out of this type of topic. The biggest problem people make are they state things, they even use images like what you showed however, lets face it the dare program is full of crap.
     
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