Well that was fast..... Part Deux...


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  1. Hangdog42

    Hangdog42 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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  2. byteware

    byteware Well-Known Member

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    Umm... you have an issue with him raising money to pay for his campaign?

    Ok then.
     
  3. hakr100

    hakr100 Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure there were a number of naive Americans who believed the tea party candidates were "different." :rolleyes:


    These are the same folk who believe the check is in the mail. :D
     
  4. byteware

    byteware Well-Known Member

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    You mean that they thought tea party candidates had superpowers that allowed them to run campaigns without funds?

    I'm fairly certain that wasn't the case.
     
  5. Hangdog42

    Hangdog42 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Do you really believe that lobbyist money doesn't come with a million strings attached? Do you think that the lobbyist won't expect "special" access for this? Or that when legislation that affects the lobbying group comes up that the politician won't be reminded of how generous the lobbyists were and that if they wish that generosity to be continued, the politician better vote for what the lobbyist wants?

    Money like this is how politics are corrupted. If they want to pay off their campaign, and they should, they should be raising the money from their constituents. Or not spending so much in the first place that they have to beg from special interests. I mean really, if they can't behave responsibly with their campaign funds, how the hell do you expect them to behave responsibly with the budget?
     
  6. byteware

    byteware Well-Known Member

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    Really? $1000. You think they are going to drop what they are doing for $1000?

    I guess you recommend that we elect no one then? This is common practice on both sides of the aisle. Washington would be a VERY empty place.
     
  7. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon Moderator

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    Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. - P.J. O'Rourke
     
  8. Hangdog42

    Hangdog42 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    May I suggest you actually read the article. The $1,000 was a per-head charge the lobbyists paid to attend the dinner. The politicians are getting much, much more....


    In case you didn't notice, these people ran on a platform of changing the way Washington does business. They haven't even taken their seats yet and they're already doing things the Washington Way.

    Can you spell "hypocrisy"?
     
  9. Jceinc

    Jceinc Well-Known Member

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  10. Dark Jedi

    Dark Jedi Guest

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    There is no Republican or Democrat. Washington is filled with nothing but corrupted people looking to make as much money as they can in office.

    Reminds me if WWE. On camera they are mortal enemies. Behind closed doors they are best buddies.
     
  11. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon Moderator

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    Agree to disagree - Da Rules and common courtesy applies.
     
  12. byteware

    byteware Well-Known Member

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    Yes... each person paid $1000. Each lobbyist paid at most $2000 (them and a guest).

    I'm certain that they are going to be mightily beholden to the lobbyists for those $1000-$2000.

    Let's not lose that.
     
  13. Dark Jedi

    Dark Jedi Guest

    Just because lobbyists paid to go to a dinner. Doesn't hold the politicians to anything. After all what are the lobbiest going to do ask for a refund because the guy or girl wont do what they want?
     
  14. Hangdog42

    Hangdog42 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Rinse. Lather. Repeat. If you think it stops with a single dinner, you're deluding yourself. Lobbyists act like drug pushers. A little taste here, a little taste there. "Oh gee Mr. Congressman, it just so happens our private corporate jet is going your way, would you like a ride?" and a bit later on.."We would love to have you speak at our annual gathering in the Bahamas next week. Don't forget your golf clubs."

    Let's not lose that the main reason these people ran was to change Washington. As you pointed out, everyone does it. Which means that doing it is absolutely NOT changing Washington. It is the first step into becoming one of the parasites that infect the place.
     
  15. byteware

    byteware Well-Known Member

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    So, what your saying is... this isn't a problem, but other things are...

    And I absolutely agree. Campaign fundraisers at $1000/head isn't a corruption problem, and the other things that you mentioned would be.
     
  16. Hangdog42

    Hangdog42 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    No, I'm saying campaign fundraisers at $1000 a head are a corruption problem. There isn't a dollar level at which corruption starts and below that is OK.

    I'm in full agreement with an old Howard Baker idea that if you can't vote for someone you can't contribute to their campaign.
     
  17. byteware

    byteware Well-Known Member

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    $1000 in a multi-million dollar campaign... isn't a corruption problem.

    Now, I personally feel that every politician should have to report every dollar given to them or spent on them by a lobbyist.

    I also think that those reports should be viewable and searchable on the internet.

    So that we, the constituents can see who's spending what on whom. Then we can decide for ourselves. That might clean up Washington all by itself.
     
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  18. Hangdog42

    Hangdog42 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    So how much does corruption cost these days? If it isn't $1,000, what is it?
     
  19. byteware

    byteware Well-Known Member

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    I don't know about for you, but for me... corruption is something that is done in exchange for something, or can be used as leverage in exchange for something.

    For instance, if this dinner had been held by a lobbyist, and the lobbyist could use that as leverage (next year) to get what he wanted.

    Or if the lobbyist held the fundraiser in exchange for getting what he wanted.

    $1000 isn't leverage enough for either of those scenarios.



    It's rather pointless to argue that though. Lobbyists don't do most of their harm through actual corruption. They do their harm through access to congressmen. Seriously, they simply have to convince them that they are right, and they get the access and time to do it.

    Lobbyists are paid to be convincing. The more convincing they are, the better they get paid and the more sought after they are.

    So, the real concern here wouldn't be money, but time.
     
  20. Hangdog42

    Hangdog42 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but assuming the leverage stops at $1,000 is probably incorrect. That is a per-event charge and the same lobbyists are going to be attending other fundraisers.



    Are you serious? How do you think these lobbyists get access? It is ALL about the money. Contributions is how. Attending $1000 a plate dinners (by the way if you want to attend one, here is a list of upcoming dinners. Turns out $1K is a cheap one). Your average congresscritter needs to raise tens of thousands of dollars per week in order to stay competitive. Some are aiming much higher than that. A sizable chunk of that money comes from lobbyists.

    The money is the real concern since that is apparently what re-election depends upon.
     
  21. byteware

    byteware Well-Known Member

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    Even if the same lobbyist attends ten of these fundraisers for the same candidate (and really, that becomes a little unreasonable to do for more than a few candidates), they would only (with date) be donating $20,000. That's like trying to bribe Bill Gates with a million. Or trying to bribe a policeman with a $5.

    Even if you do that 10 times a year... that's like bribing a cop for a year with $50... it's rather ridiculous.



    Am I serious? Are you? Do you have ANY idea how lobbyists get access?

    Lobbyists get access through relationships. Lobbyists work on the campaigns of candidates to build that relationship. Lobbyists are former aides. Lobbyists are former congressmen/congresswomen. Lobbyists use these relationships to get access.

    Lobbyists don't use money as a means of control. Big donors do, but lobbyists don't. They use relationships and information.

    Someone needs to do a little reading before they get all outraged.
     
  22. Dark Jedi

    Dark Jedi Guest

    sorry to say but in the end its all about money. Washington was built on greed.
     
  23. byteware

    byteware Well-Known Member

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    While that's a great marketing phrase, it's unfortunately not absolutely true.

    99% of lobbyists influence isn't about money. It's about time to convince the Congressman that what the lobbyist wants them to do is the best thing for the country.

    Think of it this way:

    Cigarette company lobbyists spent lots of time presenting their scientific research to congressmen/congresswomen. This convinced them for years that cigarettes were not a cause of cancer. There was no one there to present the rest of the data. So, Congress(persons?) believed it and acted as if it were true.

    If you buy off a politician, then you get them while you pay for them. If you convince a politician that doing what you want is the right thing for the country, then you get them forever... it's much much more effective.

    After you convince them that you are right, then every time you see them after that, all you have to do is reinforce that what they already believe is true, is true.

    Anyone wanting to turn them against you has to get past what they believe is true, which is not simple to do.

    Access is the biggest influence on Congresspeople(?). Hence why when they passed ethics reforms, they made it illegal for a former congressperson to use his/her access to private areas to lobby current congresspeople(?). I hate PC.
     

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