What contact manager do you suggest? Android built in contacts are just NOT ready for prime time.

[tgm1024]

.....at least as far as I can tell. They seem fragile at best, and reading through so much of the flakiness just at trying to get around the missing "phone contact" to "google contact" conversion dizzies me. And I'm experiencing flakiness at just adding a contact on gmail and not being able to txt to it from the phone. If these are all because of cockpit errors, it is still the case that the Law of Least Surprise has been violated enough times.

Really, this seems like beta release stuff. At least after having designed software products for 20+ years it seems this way.

Is there a more bullet-proof contact system that people generally use? I see the name "GoContacts" float around periodically.

 

[Kicksilver]

I think you're not undertanding how it works.

I think it's flawless.

 

[tgm1024]

I think you're not undertanding how it works.

I think it's flawless.

Flawless is a pretty weighty word in software. Are you sure you can support that? So there are NO bugs in contacts? None?

It's not flawless when I see the amount of confusion on the web regarding what to do when, and how only full erasures were sometimes the only solution.

And why no attribute or conversion route from "phone contact" to "google contact" ?

I would never have accepted this from a member of one of my teams. When designing a product like this with distributed information you must think about such things in their entirety. There must be several ways around having half-synced or even fully corrupt contacts on either or both sides. You have to think of the initial ways that bestbuy or verizon kiosks will load your phone with "phone contacts". And you can't have things like I'm seeing: A contact that allows me to txt one sentence, receive a reply, and then disallow sending from then on claiming that the recipient is invalid, even though it is there in both gmail and the phone.

 

[Crashdamage]

To convert contacts from phone to Gmail export your phone contacts as vcf and import into Gmail and re-sync. Very simple.

I've never experienced the other problems you describe with contacts or texts and I've used Android since the initial release.

 

[tgm1024]

To convert contacts from phone to Gmail export your phone contacts as vcf and import into Gmail and re-sync. Very simple.

I'm sorry, but no, that's not that simple. It requires me to have an SD card to start with. Further, it is likely to result in many duplicates unless I'm extremely careful. And this could have been entirely avoided if someone in google had been thinking. No, it's not "very simple", nor forgivable. This reminds me of many projects I've lead where there were similarly suggested workarounds for problems that a very large number of customers would face. It's an immediate deal breaker--->you do NOT make the customer jump through hoops when all it is accomplishing is effectively changing a data entry type. And by the way, Android should not be having this "well you could try it this way" mentality. Given the large number of people who have their phones preloaded with Phone Contacts when they're new at Android and don't even know the difference until too late?

I've never experienced the other problems you describe with contacts or texts and I've used Android since the initial release.

Again, this would be a "there's no bug that I can see" argument. Over here is a good collection of frustrations. It's one thread of very many showing flaky results and in many cases resulting in duplicates of phone & google contacts----> http://androidforums.com/htc-droid-eris/52701-phone-contacts-vs-google-contacts.html

The more I look at it, the more fragile these things are. And I really don't like the model to begin with. A "phone contact" vs. "google contact" that CAN'T instantly swap back and forth?????? It's a case of the engineers losing sight of the forest by being too close to the trees.

And duplicates not being immediately handled by an internal apparatus designed to foresee such accidental consequences of export and import????

 

[Kicksilver]

What's your issue with the contacts?

I uploaded the file to my Google contacts, enabled Sync in my device, and voil

 

[tgm1024]

I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound as angry as I am coming across here. It's just that software design, particularly workflow and UI design, is one of my deepest career investments. Rearranging the mindsets and viewpoints of engineers to be that of outsiders, completely --devoid-- of all pre-existing knowledge, is among the toughest things to accomplish.

 

[tgm1024]

What's your issue with the contacts?

I uploaded the file to my Google contacts, enabled Sync in my device, and voil

 

[Crashdamage]

I'm sorry, but no, that's not that simple. It requires me to have an SD card to start with.

Pretty simple. Most phones come with a SD card. If not, they're only a few dollars and well worth it for the added functionality.

Further, it is likely to result in many duplicates unless I'm extremely careful.

Not really. Usually when people complain about duplicate contacts on their phone they haven't paid attention to the contact dislplay options. Or just forget to do a 'merge'.

And this could have been entirely avoided if someone in google had been thinking. No, it's not "very simple", nor forgivable.

Don't blame Google. It's up to OEMs to decide how contacts saved to the phone or sim are handled. Google is responsible for Google contacts.

Given the large number of people who have their phones preloaded with Phone Contacts when they're new at Android and don't even know the difference until too late?

That's why phones come with user manuals. To learn terms and how to use the device. You can't fix stupid.

Again, this would be a "there's no bug that I can see" argument.

Again, I've not experienced the problems you describe with contacts or texts in years of use. Sorry I can't help more there.

And duplicates not being immediately handled by an internal apparatus designed to foresee such accidental consequences of export and import????

What if say, you have two contacts named John Doe? The software would somehow have to be able to determine what was accidental and what was intentional. A tricky task that could have serious accidental consequences itself resulting in user grief. Better to have the user learn to tell the software what's intended than have the software make assumptions.

 

[tgm1024]

Pretty simple. Most phones come with a SD card. If not, they're only a few dollars and well worth it for the added functionality.


Not really. Usually when people complain about duplicate contacts on their phone they haven't paid attention to the contact dislplay options. Or just forget to do a 'merge'.


Don't blame Google. It's up to OEMs to decide how contacts saved to the phone or sim are handled. Google is responsible for Google contacts.


That's why phones come with user manuals. To learn terms and how to use the device. You can't fix stupid.


Again, I've not experienced the problems you describe with contacts or texts in years of use. Sorry I can't help more there.


What if say, you have two contacts named John Doe? The software would somehow have to be able to determine what was accidental and what was intentional. A tricky task that could have serious accidental consequences itself resulting in user grief. Better to have the user learn to tell the software what's intended than have the software make assumptions.

No, you're looking at it narrowly. You've constrained the issue. The dual nature of John Doe that you list is handled NOT by having the software make assumptions. It's handled by having the software flag it as potential trouble, and corralling the potential overlaps so that you can see each overlap cordoned off.

Further, the "can't fix stupid" is precisely the mindset that has to go when designing a product. Phones are for non-tech savvy as well.

And the details of how data is daved to the card at the driver level do not matter in the least. It's up to android to manage the data format and the algorithms used for their stock contact manager.

At only a month of casual usage I can only tell you a vague sense of where the designs have gone wrong, but such things should not be so immediate. Android should have Android contacts, and *only* Android contacts. From /there/ it then needs a transparent glue layer for connectivity to gmail, etc., etc., etc.

If it was imperative for google to have "phone contacts AND gmail contacts" then "phone" should have been a group of sorts within a connected framework so that the two contacts were sharing the same underpinnings....so that gmail could immediately bring it in and offer immediate assistance on the data collisions.

As could Yahoo. As good Dwight Shmidlap Email Inc. If google wanted Android to be very google centric out-of-the-box (understandable), ALL the same arguments still apply to just gmail and the phone.

I'd have to dig into the source to know more, but what I'm talking is not dependent upon detailed information---it stands as observations of usage.

My Droid 4 does *not* come with an SD card. Since [if] by license there is no way to require that an SD card be present, Android users should not even have as a suggested workaround using it.

As soon as the word "workaround" showed up at my desk, I replied with "redesign".

 

[Loota]

I'm with you OP... I love my phone, I love android and I love how contacts has simplified my life... but its not finished... just one argument to fuel the fire... if it was finished why can't I add a contacts birthday from within the phone?

I'm glad its out there and here for me to use instead of in closed beta (which I haven't checked but it may be in beta lol plenty of other google products are). But its not flawless and could use some work.

In my experience the other managers I've tried just add on to google contacts and are not a replacement. Contaps added the ability for me to link peoples facebooks to their contact. Which is needed for those of us that name our contact "aunt" annie. But its ui left something to be desired. Go contacts I was not pleased with the ui either... I think that's all I've tried though.

 

[tgm1024]

[apologies to Loota, the following was typed before your post showed up.]

Enough of this "rah rah go team" business. It's not the forum for Software Design Principals 101. If I have time (doubtful) I'll investigate creating my own rudimentary contact manager to see where the bodies are buried. Or perhaps a "contact fixer" or something. I'll go configure Eclipse or Netbeans (I have both) to play with it.

IN ANY CASE: Supposing for a moment that folks felt like they wanted another contact manager (for any reason, warranted or otherwise), is there one that folks seem to like the best, and what did it fix for you? I seeking this in addition to the ratings/review system within the android market.

 

[Crashdamage]

The dual nature of John Doe that you list is handled NOT by having the software make assumptions. It's handled by having the software flag it as potential trouble, and corralling the potential overlaps so that you can see each overlap cordoned off.

I believe when you merge Gmail contacts it asks what to do with duplicates.

Further, the "can't fix stupid" is precisely the mindset that has to go when designing a product. Phones are for non-tech savvy as well.

Of course they are. But at some level the user has to assume some responsibilty for learning to use their device. That's what manuals are for and why they are written with non-techies in mind. But ya just can't fix stupid - there's no bug report for that.

And the details of how data is daved to the card at the driver level do not matter in the least. It's up to android to manage the data format and the algorithms used for their stock contact manager.

??? As I said before, Google (aka Android) is responsible for how Google contacts are handled. The OEMs are responsible for how phone and sim contacts are handled.

Android should have Android contacts, and *only* Android contacts.

Users who want to be able to choose saving contacts as Google (aka Gmail or as you say 'Android') phone or sim would strongly disagree.

From /there/ it then needs a transparent glue layer for connectivity to gmail, etc., etc., etc.

There certainly is, particularly for Google contacts. What is it you don't understand?

If it was imperative for google to have "phone contacts AND gmail contacts" then "phone" should have been a group of sorts within a connected framework so that the two contacts were sharing the same underpinnings....so that gmail could immediately bring it in and offer immediate assistance on the data collisions.

??? Not sure you understand how this works or why users would NOT want phone and Gmail contacts connected or sharing anything. IOW the whole purpose of having Gmail and phone contacts is precisely to keep them totally separate. It all works exactly as intended.

My Droid 4 does *not* come with an SD card. Since [if] by license there is no way to require that an SD card be present, Android users should not even have as a suggested workaround using it.

That's kinda like saying that even though computers are often sold without a keyboard buying one shouldn't be suggested as a 'workaround' to use the computer even though a keyboard can be had for $5-10. Be realistic.

 

[tgm1024]

I'm with you OP... I love my phone, I love android and I love how contacts has simplified my life... but its not finished... just one argument to fuel the fire... if it was finished why can't I add a contacts birthday from within the phone?

I'm glad its out there and here for me to use instead of in closed beta (which I haven't checked but it may be in beta lol plenty of other google products are). But its not flawless and could use some work.

In my experience the other managers I've tried just add on to google contacts and are not a replacement. Contaps added the ability for me to link peoples facebooks to their contact. Which is needed for those of us that name our contact "aunt" annie. But its ui left something to be desired. Go contacts I was not pleased with the ui either... I think that's all I've tried though.

Thank you Loota. What was it about the GO teams approach that you didn't like---just the UI, or the abilities allowed by the UI? Did it give you the control you wanted but just in some clumsy UI way you didn't like? Curious.

 

[Crashdamage]

...why can't I add a contacts birthday from within the phone?

In GoContacts open the contact for editing and it's under 'Events'.
In the standard contacts app all you can do is put it in 'Notes'.

 

[chanchan05]

1. Non-tech savvy does not mean stupid. I have a friend who aren't tech savvy but are intelligent enough to know phone contacts from Google contacts.

2. People should just read the manuals. Most of the time they don't. The cure for cancer could be written there and 90% of the people won't know.

3. Google Contacts is separate because its an option. In general people don't want their contacts up there for some reason. Its been a pretty common encounter here that people are always looking for ways to bypass Google on their phones. Having "phone-only" contacts give them that option, an option that is totally unlinked to the internet and cannot be synced to the internet, so most apps won't be able to copy or sync them without them knowing.

4. I've known people with Android phones who did not even know that the save to Gmail option exists but when I checked their phones its all properly arranged and coded in their phone contacts.

5. To Loota, yes you can add a contact's birthday on the phone. I do that. Unless your contact is on your phone as a social network contact from Facebook or Twitter. Those contacts are read only, reading only the data from their profile pages. You can't edit their profile page's data. But you can add birthdays to a phone or Google contact.

 

[tgm1024]

That's kinda like saying that even though computers are often sold without a keyboard buying one shouldn't be suggested as a 'workaround' to use the computer even though a keyboard can be had for $5-10. Be realistic.

I'm sorry, but countering every one of your points (particularly this last one!!!!) requires me to reiterate the mindset problem. There's just no establishing that point further to you and chanchan05 without enormous sets of examples, and I'm punting on the point by point expansion of this thread. I suppose the only thing I can say is that if you design software for a living to consider that maybe as soon as you say "there's a way around that" then something has almost certainly gone wrong with the model. Especially if it requires hardware not guaranteed to be there. Other than that, I yield to you both.

Moving on.

In any case--->let's pretend for now that there are frustrated users out there that did read the manual, (or however you put it, or that valid seasoned arguments exist for general contact misgivings or whatever), and that they are looking for contact alternatives. Is there any that you know of to be the most bullet proof with a long track record?

 

[Crashdamage]

...contact alternatives. Is there any that you know of to be the most bullet proof with a long track record?

I really haven't spent a lot of time with lots of the many contact managers available on the market. Plus, there's some managers specific to OEM skins like Sense or Touchwiz. So I'm not familiar with everything out there. But if you're looking for added options and functionality over the standard Android contacts app, I've been very happy with GoContacts. And it's free.

 

[Loota]

Crash ty, I was not aware of that feature however my point was that if googles stock contact app was perfect that field would be accessible on your phone. Chanchan where? I can edit it on contacts from my comp but not in the stock app. And notes doesn't count.. its not the correct field. Context people ;-) we're talking about a specific app not a web app I can use from my phone or computer but the one on my phone that came stock+ whatever updates are available for it. That being said I use honeycomb... I dunno if its available in more recent releases.

Also, sure its up to the phone user to learn about their phone but smart money is on the phone os maker that strives to make their os accesable (sic) to the lowest common denominator. Which is why one of apples greatest slogans is "it just works". Fyi I'm a total google fanboy.

TGM I was not happy with go contacts ui for a few reasons... I really disliked the groups page. And a few other things I can't remember but initial impressions are important to me.. I want my phone how I want it... and I'm willing to spend the time to find the right apps and configurations to make it that way. And there is nothing wrong with me or anyone like me seeking that.. hopefully we get by with a lil help from our friends here at phandroid.

P.S. why isn't there a spell check in tapatalk?

 

[chanchan05]

@Loota - Stock touchwiz 3 contacts app, Galaxy S, Google Contact: Open a contact, press edit, scroll down and press "more". Scroll down more (you'll see notes, nickname, website, internet call, BIRTHDAY, Anniversary). However I see you have a "Transform Ultra". Odd name for a Samsung Android, so its probably a US only and carrier branded device? In that case blame the carrier designed firmware.

@TGM - honestly the only thing I liked about Go Contacts EX was the dialer UI, but not the contacts UI, I use Go Dialer but still keep the stock Samsung contacts app. As for best contact app, it would depend exactly on what you are asking from it.

 

[iowabowtech]

@tgm1024,
I agree with much of what you've said. Even as a power user I have experienced some of the issues you have stated including duplicate contacts when converting contact type. On the bright side, things are looking up on Ice Cream Sandwich. Unfortunately, it's not a widespread OS yet but they seem to have removed the disparity between the phone vs Google contacts that seems to be the crux of the problem.

That said, however, the problem may return when ICS is tweaked to the various manufacturers/skins, I have no idea. I'm running it on the Galaxy Nexus which is a "Google phone" so it's not hard to believe the single option to sync all contacts as Google contacts works well and negates many of the issues you've mentioned.

I guess time will tell as ICS reaches outward. Honestly, I think what we are seeing here is the dual edged sword of choice that is a pillar of the Android philosophy. Sometimes choice can confuse things but without it, many would be less satisfied overall. I understand your point though from the conceptual and engineering point of view...get it right or don't send it out the door. I get that. Unfortunately, if there is a weakness with Android, it may be integration across all competing hardware and the number of hands that are in the process from source to end user. Yet in other cases, that seems to be one of it's greatest strengths as well.

 

[Loota]

@Loota - Stock touchwiz 3 contacts app, Galaxy S, Google Contact: Open a contact, press edit, scroll down and press "more". Scroll down more (you'll see notes, nickname, website, internet call, BIRTHDAY, Anniversary). However I see you have a "Transform Ultra". Odd name for a Samsung Android, so its probably a US only and carrier branded device? In that case blame the carrier designed firmware.

It may be carrier designed firmware but I don't think so. Touchwiz is a product of samsung, is the contacts app you're talking about a google product that comes on other non touchwiz phones or is it specific to touchwiz and therefor only samsung phones? My contacts app is contacts "2.3.4" I would be interested in hearing about other apps that may include higher functionality though like the OP if you're saying this version you have is it.

 

[tgm1024]

@tgm1024,
I agree with much of what you've said. Even as a power user I have experienced some of the issues you have stated including duplicate contacts when converting contact type. On the bright side, things are looking up on Ice Cream Sandwich. Unfortunately, it's not a widespread OS yet but they seem to have removed the disparity between the phone vs Google contacts that seems to be the crux of the problem.

That said, however, the problem may return when ICS is tweaked to the various manufacturers/skins, I have no idea. I'm running it on the Galaxy Nexus which is a "Google phone" so it's not hard to believe the single option to sync all contacts as Google contacts works well and negates many of the issues you've mentioned.

I guess time will tell as ICS reaches outward. Honestly, I think what we are seeing here is the dual edged sword of choice that is a pillar of the Android philosophy. Sometimes choice can confuse things but without it, many would be less satisfied overall. I understand your point though from the conceptual and engineering point of view...get it right or don't send it out the door. I get that. Unfortunately, if there is a weakness with Android, it may be integration across all competing hardware and the number of hands that are in the process from source to end user. Yet in other cases, that seems to be one of it's greatest strengths as well.

I see that. Taking this conversation 3 steps--->that way and backing up, when "Gmail" was given a new vice president, he referred to google's refusal to turn off conversation mode as "tone deaf". It was a very good move toward accepting an arrogance within engineering I believe. But, then google further attempts to fix things that were in no way broken: their search engine query mechanism. They seem to have swapped AND searches for something like OR searches and worse. And then Google also confuses things when they hid the google contacts within gmail under a button that gives a drop-down. I wasn't using google contacts pre this change, so I have to trust what others were saying. But I'm wondering if this was in some way connected to the phone vs. google contacts....in that they wanted the contact mechanism to be part of gmail, not part of google proper. Which is especially odd since IMO it should be entirely decoupled because contacts have more interfacing usages than email. (google chat, and the phones, and anything collaborative they might try in the future NOT email based). Not sure of the mindset here yet.

The issue with skins (at noob glance) seems more of a skin fixing something, or putting in functionality that the manufacturer thought was missing, rather than an android being "ok" thing....but honestly I don't have the experience to say that with authority....you may be right.

I am very much looking forward to seeing what happens with 4.0. The phone vs. google contact decoupling issues are purportedly addressed to some degree?

 

[Crashdamage]

The issue with skins (at noob glance) seems more of a skin fixing something, or putting in functionality that the manufacturer thought was missing, rather than an android being "ok" thing...

Exactly. The 'stock' contact manager (among other things) may vary from manufacturer to manufacturer and version to version. Then there's 'vanilla' Android (unchanged from standard, basic Google Android) and OEM-added 'skins' (which are actually more than a simple skin).

I am very much looking forward to seeing what happens with 4.0. The phone vs. google contact decoupling issues are purportedly addressed to some degree?

They are still 'decoupled' as they should be. 4.0, IIRC, provides a direct way to 'reassign' phone contacts as Google contacts. IOW you don't have to export phone contacts and merge and re-sync anymore. Just saves a little bit of work.

 

[tgm1024]

Exactly. The 'stock' contact manager (among other things) may vary from manufacturer to manufacturer and version to version. Then there's 'vanilla' Android (unchanged from standard, basic Google Android) and OEM-added 'skins' (which are actually more than a simple skin).


They are still 'decoupled' as they should be. 4.0, IIRC, provides a direct way to 'reassign' phone contacts as Google contacts. IOW you don't have to export phone contacts and merge and re-sync anymore. Just saves a little bit of work.

That's no trivial change. The removal of that "little bit of work" changes it from a divide to an attribute, as it should be. It's no longer "decoupled", they exist as a "thing" freely labeled one way or the other.