What makes our 720p recording inferior (imo) to the iphone, nokia n8, and samsung galaxy?


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  1. tracerit

    tracerit Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    I've read it's compression, what settings are our EVO set at and how do you find out the compression rate of the other phones? Is this something that software or a root hack can alter?
     

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  2. YaBoiD

    YaBoiD Well-Known Member

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    I didn't know the EvO's recording was inferior...
     
  3. YaBoiD

    YaBoiD Well-Known Member

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  4. dr g

    dr g Well-Known Member

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    It just doesn't seem to be pushing out the bitrate it should be for HD video. Whether that's due to a hardware limitation is unknown, but maybe it's just a space consideration. One would hope that this is a modifiable characteristic of the camera system.
     
  5. tracerit

    tracerit Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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  6. VGPOP

    VGPOP Well-Known Member

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    EVO looks superior to me. Dont know what you are looking
     
  7. MrX8503

    MrX8503 Well-Known Member

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    I think you need some glasses.

    The EVO has inferior 720p because of a low bitrate, low fps, and high compression.
     
  8. Novoken

    Novoken Well-Known Member

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    fps has been resolved, and soon by htc so the video should improve.
     
  9. mrspeedmaster

    mrspeedmaster Well-Known Member

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    Well, Nokia has the best optics (Carl Zeiss) bar-none. iPhone and Samsung,well, they have: 1) better sensor and 2) a real H.264 codec.
    The better sensor is the higher pixel pitch 1.74um vs 1.4um. Both Samsung and Apple use H.264 and pumps out solid fps and bit-rate. They have a cost-advantage that HTC does not have. Face it.

    Both Samsung and Apple have economy of scale. Apple is a board member of the MP4 association, they have H.264 in all their products. Samsung has a broad patent portfolio and cross-license H.264 in products like their blue-ray players, a gazillion camcorders, slrs, digicams, etc.. Because of the cross-platform licensing, they can save $10-20 per unit on each handset. If you think about it, that puts HTC at a disadvantage. You don't see this cost but the cost is very real and it is there to the manufacturer.

    In addition, both Samsung and Apple have domain experience in other fields that they can apply to their phone division at zero or no cost. HTC is just a phone manufacture. Apple has a whole pro-line division that makes video software like FCP that is used to by major broadcast/editors in major motion picture. They can just re-use the encoding code-base from 20 years of quicktime work and apply it in their phone at zero-no cost. So, how can anyone really compete with that? Samsung makes a whole line of real HD camcorders/cameras/slrs. Again, they apply the same domain experience and can probably port their camera firmware to the Galaxy at, again, zero or no cost.

    As for your question about Root. Yes, it can be done. The HTC EVO uses a Omnivision BSI sensor and the spec I read says it can support up to 1080p recording. We don't know if the GPU/Snap dragron processor can handle that.HTC, well, again, they didn't pony up the license for real H.264 encoding. This is a fact by just looking at the media info of their files.

    It will take someone really talented to pay the royalties and apply an encoder and camera capture software in a rooted phone to make it better. Or, HTC just ponies up ad buy the right encoding licenses and hires a company to provide them with better camera software.
     
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  10. zamardii12

    zamardii12 Well-Known Member

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    It's just the sensor that makes it inferior and with the Evo it's the horrible compression. There's nothing you can do about it so you gotta live with it.
     
  11. MrX8503

    MrX8503 Well-Known Member

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    This just shows that people honestly don't know what the 30fps cap is really about and what it affects. I've been arguing tooth and nail about this topic with people. Alternatively people should just do their own research.
     
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  12. finndo77

    finndo77 Well-Known Member

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    The main reason for the low bitrate and high compression on the Evo is so they could ship the phone with class 2 SDHC cards, which will cause issues with full quality 720p recording. a class 2 SDHC means it is designed to never drop below a 2Mbps write speed...


    Recommended Video for 720p HD youtube

    1280
     
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  13. Dreamliner

    Dreamliner Well-Known Member

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    ^thanks for posting Youtube content. Any idea how record uncompressed on the EVO? :p
     
  14. mrspeedmaster

    mrspeedmaster Well-Known Member

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    The video fps is different issue from the graphics driver running at 30fps. This is also a different issue from playing back videos at 30fps.

    So there are a total of 3 different fps issues:
    1) Recording at 30fps.
    2) Graphics Driver stuck at 30fps.
    3) Video playback (related to #2)
     
  15. MrX8503

    MrX8503 Well-Known Member

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    Why didn't they just put in a class 6 card. This is a dumb move by HTC.
     
  16. VGPOP

    VGPOP Well-Known Member

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    Not even close. Your making this info because you know the specs for this. But no way you will see a difference here with your eyes.

    Of course i am expecting you say the opposite.

    No glasses needed here
     
  17. edpowers

    edpowers Member

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    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
     
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  18. mrspeedmaster

    mrspeedmaster Well-Known Member

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    You can see the difference. The meta-data and info is in EVERY video produces. You can extract, extract, and extract and the numbers don't lie. Lower bit-rate will show you blockier video, lower definition. Lower FPS will give you jerkiness.

    You can definitely hear the difference 9khz AMR audio codec. You can't polish a turd.

    You can wear any glass you want but the numbers from the final product (final file itself) don't lie.
     
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  19. NeoteriX

    NeoteriX Well-Known Member

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    That's a reasonable hypothesis to draw, but my personal opinion is that it's incorrect.

    The Sprint manual shows that playback of video is limited to 6000 kbps -- and anecdotal evidence so far shows that playback (of externally loaded content) above this bitrate will result in frames dropping. This would lead one to believe the more likely reason is that it's a processing limitation.

    That said, bitrates taken in isolation are extremely misleading. I've transcoded movies to 720p, H.264, with a bitrate of 5 Mbps and they look great. The problem with the evo is not necessarily the bitrate, but the lack of the H.264 codec encoding, and some possible combination of the sensor and the lens.
     
  20. zpilot

    zpilot Well-Known Member

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    Watch the last video linked HERE (Watch it in HD). Doesn't even have to be watched in raw output to notice a difference between the 720p of the iPhone vs the 720p video from the Evo. If you honestly do not see a difference then I don't know what to say. The sensor is what limits the Evo to be even comparable to the sensors found in the iPhones and Nokias.

    Another video sample: http://vimeo.com/12671233

    Take a look at the different sample pics taken with the Evo and then compare them to the ones taken by the iPhone. Come back to me and dare you to say that the Evo takes better pics. The 8MP is just a bunch of bs :) Even my Sony 3.1MP camera take better pics :)
     
  21. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon Moderator

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    The answers to your questions begin in the following link.

    http://androidforums.com/htc-evo-4g/105894-evo-camera-blind-test-2.html#post987786

    The other part is the xda geniuses have already begun to figure out how to get 720p working at 30 fps as opposed to only 10.

    But the real issue is the codec - see the link, ask questions here, I'll do my best to answer to what I know, if anything.

    PS - And I completely agree with mrspeedmaster on everything except the Samsung Galaxy part. If I'm not mistaken, and I could be, I think they buy their codec package outright. Either way, yes, trust someone BIG in video to get this sort of thing right.
     
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  22. Vincent Law

    Vincent Law Well-Known Member

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    720p already records ~24fps, which is a typical video framerate. FPS is not the issue.

    The issue is simply bitrate, and it's not the phone's fault, it's a limitation imposed to work with Class 2 SD cards.
     
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  23. NeoteriX

    NeoteriX Well-Known Member

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    You are incorrect, as you are unaware that the Evo has a variable recording fps. It goes as high as 24 fps in good daylight, but can go as low as 9-10 fps indoors.
     
  24. Aridon

    Aridon Well-Known Member

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    Android fanbois are just as bad as apple ones. The evo's camera performs worse than the gs. A year old phone with a 3 mega pixel camera. The video side by side proves it. So please stop acting like our device is competitive in this area. Htc is notorious for crappy camera gear. While some tweaks can be made once the custom kernel works with the camera we will ultimately be limited by the hardware inside which simply is not as good.
     
  25. EarlyMon

    EarlyMon The PearlyMon Moderator

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    Frame rate is tertiary at best. Here's a simplification of things impacting quality, already stated, in order:

    1. Lens quality (h/w, can't change)
    2. Sensor quality (h/w, can't change)
    3. Sensor firmware (can change)
    4. Codec (s/w, MPEG-4 Part 2 on Evo vs. H.264, aka MPEG-4 Part 10, motion optimized - can change in Froyo, no guarantees it will yet, separate company working that)
    5. Compression level within the codec (s/w, can change, but why bother on MPEG-4 Part2)
    6. Frame rate (s/w, can change)

    B. (can't use a number, it's parallel) - Platform speed. Not just the fantabulous 1GHz Snapdragon, but all glue logic and all logic paths leading to final storage have to support the h/w+f/w+s/w activities listed above. Hardware. Can only improve within hardware limits.

    Detail come first and foremost from color accuracy, contrast and saturation, resolution as in 720p comes in dead last. Counterintuitive, but true.

    All video - even "raw" MPEG-2 is, by definition, compressed.

    Detail in moving pictures comes from the codec first, compression within the codec second, then the frame rate.

    Trying to put a better compression algorithm into a MPEG-4 Part 2 codec is like dressing a pig in silk.

    Maybe it's better to remember that where the numbers and "B" in my list line up, that's more like a Rubic's cube than a picture puzzle to solve.

    PS - Freely used s/w (software) where others may have preferred the use of the term f/w (firmware). Asking for a pass because I'm trying to keep it simple.

    PPS - This is a simplification of things already stated, and well-stated by others (tip of the topper, gang)
     
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