What plan will this require on Verizon?

[randydandy]

One of the things we could do to help keep the confusion down, especially for folks that are not intimately familiar with wireless plans and technology is to refer to features as features and plans as plans.

Plans - Group features together in a bundle for one low price.

Features - Are individual components that can be added to plans to add additional functionality or pricing.

When we say "$30 data plan" there is no such thing. That is a $30 data feature. Both the "$30 data plan and the $45 data plan" are in fact features to be added onto an existing voice plan.

However there are True Data Plans at VZW. I eluded to them in the last post on this thread.

Both start with the following:

450 Nationwide Email Plan - Includes 450 voice mins, unl m2m, unl n&w, and Unl Smartphone Data w/ exchange/BES. $79.99

450 Nationwide Email and Messaging Plan - The same as above PLUS unl messaging. $99.99

Hope that helps and doesn't confuse.

 

[randydandy]

Ahh thank you very much randy, I slightly remembered those plans but didn't think of them to suggest. Trying to do my best with what knowledge I have, and the VZW site.

No problem. The problem is in the site. Unfortunately it's not very intuitive. It could use a overhaul. Like most companies, the site tries to help those who have no real knowledge of the wireless industry and provides a "solutions based" experience.

For those of us who have a good understanding of how the wireless industry works and just want an easy "information based" experience can struggle with the site. We just want a list of all plans and all features on one page. (which would be too confusing for noobs, the bulk of the population in America)

 

[CRPercodani]

I noticed VZW is now offering text and data only packages, trying to get some of tmobiles deaf customers after the mega huge giant sidekick data failure? Also with VOIP you could really save a lot of money especially with the awesome Verzion 3G coverage.

Hey a quick question, Verizon 3G is EVDO Rev A right? You don't actually use WCDMA/UMTS/HSPA. Is that why your 3G is so much more extensive then the other 3? Like in my area you guys have speeds around 700kbps-1.2mbps, and I think Sprint is almost the same, but Tmobile is only using GPRS which gets like 40kbps maybe more, and I know for sure with AT&T its Edge, and I have tested it all around my area and never gotten more then 160kbps.

 

[randydandy]

I noticed VZW is now offering text and data only packages, trying to get some of tmobiles deaf customers after the mega huge giant sidekick data failure? Also with VOIP you could really save a lot of money especially with the awesome Verzion 3G coverage.

Hey a quick question, Verizon 3G is EVDO Rev A right? You don't actually use WCDMA/UMTS/HSPA. Is that why your 3G is so much more extensive then the other 3? Like in my area you guys have speeds around 700kbps-1.2mbps, and I think Sprint is almost the same, but Tmobile is only using GPRS which gets like 40kbps maybe more, and I know for sure with AT&T its Edge, and I have tested it all around my area and never gotten more then 160kbps.

I think your right about the Deaf/Blind customers. We also have the HTC Ozone w/ Talks software. Something other carriers have had in the past.

As far as data speeds. VZW is on EVDO REV A. It is the last step in the CDMA evolution. That's why VZW and ATT are going to a completely new technology with 4G, LTE. ATT 3G is actually faster than REV A. The issue your having is that your not even getting 2.5G speeds (EDGE). Coverage means alot. Verizon had no equivalent at 2.5G EDGE. We jumped from 2G to 3G. That's why we have 5x the coverage with average speeds of 1.3-1.5 mbps. In the GSM evolution, it went GPRS - EDGE (2.5) - UMTS (3G) - HSDPA (3.5G). As you can see, there are more upgrade options for GSM technology. At first, I viewed this as an advantage but now, I see it as a disadvantage. Each technology upgrade requires a network ugrade rollout. That takes alot of money. That's why virtually our whole network is on EVDO Rev A, and ATT only has major cities on 3G (UMTS or HSDPA) but those cities are capable of bursts up to 7.2 mbps which rivals Sprints 4G speeds.

 

[CRPercodani]

True, those high speeds are nice. But with the saturated AT&T network has trouble delivering. I'm excited for LTE, and I live near Boston,MA which I have heard has LTE testing going on already, so hopefully when it goes live I will be able to get it. Now do you guys need to add new equipment to the entire tower infrastructure? Like how GSM carriers have had to do for UMTS/HSPA? I know VZW said they will being doing a very large rollout of LTE when it goes live, but are they planning on covering the entire EVDO Rev A area or just more major metro areas?

 

[scorrpio]

Given that one of the greatest features of of Android platform is its ability to stay permanently synced to your Google account - Gmail, Contacts, Docs and what not - and that data usage with the Droid will be quite heavy, it will not surprise me if $45 data package is required. Say, with my Moto Q9c which is a bit sluggish and small screen means a lot of scrolling around, I often run up 350+MB/month. With a zippy large-screen phone, I see myself easily topping 1GB.
Now, if VZW is really trying to punch iPhone where it hurts, they should keep it at $30. But for now I am bracing for a $15 bill hike.

 

[MarvinAndroid]

Does it show who the calls are coming from or does your google voice number show up in your caller id everytime?

So, I have T-Mobile with a G1 and Google Voice and I'm running the Google Voice Android app. Maybe I'm doing something wrong... but my texts sent to and from my Google Voice number do count against my total texts for the month. I've been using my Google Voice account almost exclusively this month (my friends have it now and have switched over to using it) and my plan shows 144 text messages this month. So no, text message are not free with Google Voice.

The Android Google Voice app has an option to use your 'normal' mobile number or your 'Google Voice' number for caller ID when you dial out. So you have a choice there. Text messages show up in the normal Messaging application but they have a phone number in front of them (which doesn't belong to the person sending the text). So it looks like:

+1 1231231234 - John Doe
Hey man, what's up?

(But "+1 1231231234" does not belong to "John Doe")

So it knows your contact name and puts it in there but the source number is the PBX (or whatever it is) that relays the text. Google Voice calls also seem to use my regular minutes.. they show up in the normal call log in the phone, they don't look any different to me. But I will have to test out the minutes thing more and see how it works to make sure.

 

[MarvinAndroid]

Attitude matters. I've never had VZW do anything other than help and credit for overages when they occurred

This is what bothers me about Verizon.. it seems that these "overages" happen WAY to often. It's almost like you have to check your bill every month to see if they've screwed you out of money that month or not. I'm not sure if their systems are poorly designed or if people are making mistakes or if they do it on purpose... but I have a few friends who have Verizon right now and they've all been on the phone several times getting some charges taken off their bill which didn't belong there. It almost seems like they build this stuff in on purpose assuming a lot of people just pay their bill without even checking it. Customers shouldn't have to be checking their provider's math every month... that just seems wrong.

 

[JoeFresco]

Bbbuuuttt buuttt... they have world-class customer service!

If they did as much as have capped rollover (like you can rollover minutes up to some crazy restrictive amount, say the number of monthly minutes in your plan), even that would go a long way. The whole point is to be able to cover a possible burst without having to determine if you need to upgrade your plan or change something about your usage after the fact (and after you're now having to struggle with overages) so you can run closer to your monthly minutes without fear.

I have a lot of ideas how they could improve their customer service in real ways related to overages without their customers feeling like they are money grubbing bastards while still allowing them to be the most expensive wireless carrier on the planet.

I've been toying with the idea of getting their $55/mo data/text only plan just to see if I could actually make voip work. I think that's where we are going in the long-term anyway.

 

[CRPercodani]

I highly doubt they will make the plan any higher then $30, that would defeat the point of bashing the iphone. Pretty much all data plans are capped to 5GB even though they say unlimited or whatever. I have had 2 different WinMo phones on VZW and used well over 3GB each month and never had any trouble. Android uses sync for your email which isn't any different then a Blackberry or WinMo, same with contacts and calendar and whatever else you can sync from your Google account. They all use the same amount of data, it just depends what you have setup to sync. Look at the Touch Pro 2, it syncs all kinds of info like weather, stocks, email, youtube, music, calendar...etc. But it only requires the 29.99 plan.

 

[Jacqueline]

I've been toying with the idea of getting their $55/mo data/text only plan just to see if I could actually make voip work. I think that's where we are going in the long-term anyway.

I will be looking into this too once I get my phone in my hands. It seems to me that with Skype, Google Voice, and a data plan, I shouldn't need a cell phone number with minutes.

 

[centax1]

So, I have T-Mobile with a G1 and Google Voice and I'm running the Google Voice Android app. Maybe I'm doing something wrong... but my texts sent to and from my Google Voice number do count against my total texts for the month. I've been using my Google Voice account almost exclusively this month (my friends have it now and have switched over to using it) and my plan shows 144 text messages this month. So no, text message are not free with Google Voice.

The Android Google Voice app has an option to use your 'normal' mobile number or your 'Google Voice' number for caller ID when you dial out. So you have a choice there. Text messages show up in the normal Messaging application but they have a phone number in front of them (which doesn't belong to the person sending the text). So it looks like:

+1 1231231234 - John Doe
Hey man, what's up?

(But "+1 1231231234" does not belong to "John Doe")

So it knows your contact name and puts it in there but the source number is the PBX (or whatever it is) that relays the text. Google Voice calls also seem to use my regular minutes.. they show up in the normal call log in the phone, they don't look any different to me. But I will have to test out the minutes thing more and see how it works to make sure.

I think the problem is that google voice is forwarding sms replies to your mobile you can go into the google voice websites options and turn off sms forwarding then you would just recieve sms through the application.

 

[centax1]

I've been looking at Gizmo5 and GUAVA for android. That might be the route you wanna go.

 

[JoeFresco]

I can confirm the default setting is to foward GV SMS to the phone. I tested it with GV Mobile on my iPhone and got a copy of the SMS.

 

[randydandy]

I will be looking into this too once I get my phone in my hands. It seems to me that with Skype, Google Voice, and a data plan, I shouldn't need a cell phone number with minutes.

The issue here is that network is not made for voice. Should work, but won't be quality. I've talked with people w/ VOIP over the EVDO REV A network. Where it is sufficient for transferring packets of data that get unpacked on the other end, it isn't optimized for voice. Voice quality is choppy, and your almost guaranteed a call drop on every call, eventually.

You are right about LTE and VOIP. Much higher speeds. It's capable of up to 100mbps. We probably won't realize that kinda speed on a single user for a long long time. The increased bandwidth will provide for many many more applications than we can even realize now. Definitely will be used and optimized for VOIP. The question is how will the carriers pricing structure work? You can't just have FREE service as a user. It cost way too much to build and maintain a network. FREE service shouldn't be our goal as a consumer because if that were to ever happen, you wouldn't have it for long. Company would go out of business or Govt would subsidize. And as we all know, the Govt doesn't make a product or a profit which means YOU and I are paying for the service anyways in taxes.

 

[JoeFresco]

It seems simple to me. Carriers should charge based on bandwidth tiers and caps and let the users determine how that bandwidth should be used for voice/etc.

BTW, I don't think of VOIP as free, but I do think it puts voice where it belongs in the overall data scheme, which is something like 50 kbps in a 500-5000 kbps connection. Texting on the other hand should basically be free.

 

[randydandy]

It seems simple to me. Carriers should charge based on bandwidth tiers and caps and let the users determine how that bandwidth should be used for voice/etc.

That's the best argument I've heard. The only issue I see with this is the colossal failure of current data plans with limits (such as VZW's Mobile Broadband 5gb limit). Customer deactivations are exponentially higher on such plans and 90% of consumers don't comprehend how this type of plan works. Significant overage is easy to rack up and that also leads to deactivations at record numbers. The 5gb MBB plan, in my opinion, is not sustainable and there would have to be alot of education on our part. There's always those that will never comprehend this concept and will not be able to control there usage. (I guess that's what Cricket is for)

 

[JoeFresco]

At some point in the relatively near future, we'll have the spectrum/bandwidth to increase those 5 GB limits... perhaps to the point that carriers can offer "unlimited" usage on bandwidth tiers and throttle down once a cap is breached, much like current satellite ISPs, and it wouldn't affect most users.

The biggest problem with this happening is that we know that ATT/Verizon will want to figure out how to keep the pricing plans at least as high as they are currently, if not higher, but the pct of available bandwidth needed for voice and basic net access will be even lower. So it will probably be something that Sprint/T-mobile do before the other two. I don't know. I do fully expect it to be a painful transition for consumers on ATT/Verizon, much like how the past decade has frustrated GPS/apps/tethering users on those carriers.

 

[randydandy]

Seems to me you've got it pegged. Throttling down the bandwidth should definitely be possible. The issue that most don't realize is how taxing it is on the network to "go over" the available bandwidth. Most consumers don't have a concept of how the technology works. Therefore the popular understanding is that the "air is free." The consequences of exceeding the planned amount of usage on a given tower or section of the network is reduced performance for everyone including decreased speeds, dropped calls, network outages, connection problems, and more. With that said, because the bandwidth available is not "unlimited", there has to be a "penalty" for going over, so we can plan for insure network performance for every paying customer. I think a severely decreased speed would probably be enough.

 

[0_0 Droid]

all of these numbers are being thrown in every direction, it would be a lot more helpful if someone could condense it into a chart.

 

[randydandy]

Found this on CNET. It doesn't break down each and every evolutionary step and it's speed but gives a speed range. They also haven't included LTE as a 4G technology. One other thing to note is the HSUPA GSM step is also not included. It would go right after HSDPA. Verizon, so far has opted to skip EV-DV and move right into LTE, which is a completely new technology similiar to the change from Analog AMPS to Digital GSM and CDMA.

Services and speeds
Technology Speeds Features 1G AMPS n/a Analog
(voice only) 2G GSM
CDMA
iDen Less than 20Kbps Voice; SMS; conference calls; caller ID; push to talk 2.5G GPRS
1xRTT
EDGE 30Kbps to 90Kbps MMS; images; Web browsing; short audio/video clips; games, applications, and ring tone downloads 3G UMTS
1xEV-DO 144Kbps to 2Mbps Full-motion video; streaming music; 3D gaming; faster Web browsing 3.5G HSDPA (upgrade for UMTS)
1xEV-DV 384Kbps to 14.4Mbps On-demand video; videoconferencing 4G and beyond WiMax* 100Mbps to 1Gbps High-quality streaming video;
high-quality videoconferencing; Voice-over-IP telephony *WiMax has been mentioned as a possible 4G technology, but no sta

 

[Jacqueline]

The issue here is that network is not made for voice. Should work, but won't be quality. I've talked with people w/ VOIP over the EVDO REV A network. Where it is sufficient for transferring packets of data that get unpacked on the other end, it isn't optimized for voice. Voice quality is choppy, and your almost guaranteed a call drop on every call, eventually.

You are right about LTE and VOIP. Much higher speeds. It's capable of up to 100mbps. We probably won't realize that kinda speed on a single user for a long long time. The increased bandwidth will provide for many many more applications than we can even realize now. Definitely will be used and optimized for VOIP. The question is how will the carriers pricing structure work? You can't just have FREE service as a user. It cost way too much to build and maintain a network. FREE service shouldn't be our goal as a consumer because if that were to ever happen, you wouldn't have it for long. Company would go out of business or Govt would subsidize. And as we all know, the Govt doesn't make a product or a profit which means YOU and I are paying for the service anyways in taxes.

I have a cellular data router with ATT service I use when I go camping. I have a skype phone I take with me too. It works well unless I'm right at the edge of losing signal. Skype itself can be choppy sometimes, even on broadband at home, but I can live with that for the small amount of time I talk.

 

[CRPercodani]

It would be fair for VZW to raise the price to say $60-80 when LTE comes if you plan on using a data only plan and VOIP for calls. Obviously they need to have enough revenue to kepp the network running properly and if everyone started using VOIP for calling and dropped there Voice plans that would really hurt the income they would have which in turn would effect the quality of the network and service we as customers receive. If you keep your Voice plan and add data just for web browsing/email and such then the price shouldn't really jump much above what it is now, except they would need to put some sort of block on VOIP for customers using such plans otherwise they would be overloading the network.

I use to think "Ok well it goes through the air so it must be unlimited" but then I started researching how cellular data worked and what type of bandwidth limits it had. It can be seen by a normal user by simply going into a very large sports arena and trying to access high bandwidth load services, you will notice a big slowdown when everyone in that small area is doing so and overloading the nearest tower(s). It has been well documented with the iphone and AT&T's network, being that the iphone can pull enormous amounts of data and so many people have them. Something will have to be in place to even things out and keep it fair for all paying customers, just because someone is more technologically advanced and uses his/her smartphone for VOIP and streaming youtube pulling large amounts of data/bandwidth, where as grandma down the road is just trying to call the local supermarket and find out if the Honey Ham is on sale, doesn't make her any less of a priority to the network then the latter user.

Bleh sorry if I could have worded that better but I was just typing like mad.

 

[JoeFresco]

Keep in mind that tech costs always go down. We think of LTE as being something amazing now (and it is) and should be priced like that, but really, once the towers/routers/backbone are up, there's not a lot of expense maintaining it. Today's 3G costs will be the costs for 4G 3 years down the road, and voice will be a much smaller % of the cost than it is now.

 

[rlivin]

Will the droid be classified as a smartphone? it may, but what i read says requires data plan. The new samsung rogue that was release early october said requires data plan. which is what 19.99? or included in the connect plan. I know that the droid is superior to the rogue but i really think that the droid will NOT be classified as a pda/smartphone. They want to go after iphone folks so i think they will keep it off the 30 buck plan and require only a data plan like the rogue. but what do i know! i have a bb, LOL