What's wrong with "Democratic Socialism"?


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  1. ZDroid1

    ZDroid1 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    It seems intuitive that there are things we can't rely on the "free market" to take care of.

    The Founding Fathers seemed to have realized this when they, for example, created the USPS. They recognized that there are things that are too important to leave to the dog-eat-dog capitalism of the free market.

    Many people point out the inefficiencies, waste and financial hardships facing a service like the USPS. But that's not the point! The success of the USPS is not measured by its revenue or even financial viability, but rather by the service it provides to the citizens.

    Nobody measures the success of the Fire Department by how much money they made, but by how many lives they saved, even if they lost money in the process or became a financial burden on the taxpayers.

    The health, education and safety of the American citizen are deemed by the so-called "socialist" to be too valuable to be bought and sold on the market of profit-driven competition. When did that become evil?

    Capitalism is not a bad thing. We all agree that Capitalism is one of the major reasons for the technological revolution we're all enjoying today, not to mention the opportunity it provides for all of us to make a good living and/or become rich. No one is against Capitalism. It's just not the answer to everything, that's all.
     

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  2. aximtreo

    aximtreo Well-Known Member

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    Who's going to pay the bills is the most often looked side of socialism. Remember, we have the right to pursue; not the right to have it given to you.
     
  3. ZDroid1

    ZDroid1 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Well, if we apply that statement strictly (the right to pursue), then we should disband the police force and the fire dept. People should just protect themselves and take care of themselves, not have everything given to them.
     
  4. copestag

    copestag Well-Known Member

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    you do realize that the overwhelming majority of firefighters are volunteer right?
     
  5. ZDroid1

    ZDroid1 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    And who pays for the equipment and the apparatus?
     
  6. WAdude

    WAdude Well-Known Member

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    Your taxes do. And I like It how it Is, no need for this democratic socialism.
     
  7. TheBeardedMann

    TheBeardedMann Well-Known Member

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    USPS was a good concept but FedEx, UPS, etc. have proven to be more effecient and that is from the free market evolving the industry. USPS should fade away and let the market take over. It should be measured by financial success and not by the service. Just like FedEx and UPS. You choose based upon the service that you have recieved and the winner has more financial success. It's pretty simple.
     
  8. Zenze

    Zenze Well-Known Member

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    How it is now is a form of democratic socialism. We do not have a pure capitalist economy, such a thing does not exist. Neither does a pure socialist society. The sooner people realize this the better.

    Some things are better handled by capitalism, other things by socialism. Finding the right mix is the goal.
     
  9. hakr100

    hakr100 Well-Known Member

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    The USPS delivers gazillions of pieces of first class mail everywhere in the United States for less than 50 cents an envelope.

    Measuring the worthiness or qualities of a public service by financial success is an absurdity.
     
  10. stainlessray

    stainlessray Well-Known Member

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    all things being equal, have you looked at the relative success of the postal service???

    it failed a long time ago, and i've been tired of paying for it for a VERY long time.
     
  11. stainlessray

    stainlessray Well-Known Member

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    soooooo we should fund it no matter the cost?
     
  12. stainlessray

    stainlessray Well-Known Member

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    look, all socialists agree on Darwin right? Capitalism, is just the monetary version of natures call. If it is worthy of human consumption, we will buy it. IF NOT, we will not.

    is it ok with ALL you people who are smarter than we are, that we just choose ourselves? or should we just take a long walk off a short pier?
     
  13. aximtreo

    aximtreo Well-Known Member

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    This comment doesn't warrant a comment. If this is the way you think, you are part of the reason this society is so screwed up.:eek:
     
  14. hakr100

    hakr100 Well-Known Member

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    Capitalism is on its way down the toilet, and will find communism already there. I don't know what will replace it, but I'm in favor of almost anything that will rebuild the middle class in this country, instead of simply making the rich even richer.
     
  15. WAdude

    WAdude Well-Known Member

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    The problem isn't capitalism, its greed. And anyways, have you ever visited a socialist country, or better yet lived in one? It sucks, opportunity only comes if you have good connections, its not as easy moving up economically, and the freedoms provided here, you will never see in a socialist country, I know this because I have experienced it myself. You think this is corruption, you have no idea.
     
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  16. stainlessray

    stainlessray Well-Known Member

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    please do tell us alL who are not wise enough to understand, HOW WILL COMMUNISM IMPROVE THIS COUNTRY?????? AND JUST FOR ARGUMENTS SAKE, please tell me how communism will improve the middle class, because this is what i am waiting for...
     
  17. stainlessray

    stainlessray Well-Known Member

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    are you saying that communism is sitting in the toilet waiting for capitalism? i am just whondering....
     
  18. WAdude

    WAdude Well-Known Member

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    If thread were a book, it'd be called "Taking the $hit on Capitalism."
     
  19. stainlessray

    stainlessray Well-Known Member

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    it would be called, "the shit that is communism, waiting to address capitalism so we can be right 50 years after the truth"

    still waiting for the answers to questions posed to the supreme beings....
     
  20. hakr100

    hakr100 Well-Known Member

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    That's what I posted.
     
  21. hakr100

    hakr100 Well-Known Member

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    Communism failed and is in the toilet, and that's where capitalism should be if we cannot rebuild a strong middle class.
     
  22. Zenze

    Zenze Well-Known Member

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    I agree, the problem is unrestricted greed. However greed is a essential element in capitalism. The idea is that if everyone looks out for themselves then they will be more motivated as their well being depends on it and as such that drives innovation. Capitalism wouldn't work without greed.

    However pure capitalism would never work. Those at the top would have absolute power and the vast majority of the wealth if there were no restrictions.

    As I see it pure capitalism and pure socialism lead to the same place, a few at the top who control everything, which is why only hybrids succeed.
     
  23. BobPaul

    BobPaul Well-Known Member

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    Well, one thing that repulses those that believe in rights is that your plan would require democracy. And that is a very bad thing.
     
  24. WAdude

    WAdude Well-Known Member

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    To rebuild the middle class you start out by rebuilding the upper class. And $250,000 is not the upper class. The definition our current president gave the middle class to me is bogus, I have friends who make $280,000 and own a small business, unfortunately they dont even end up with half that from having to pay employees, taxes and other stuff. For a strong middle class you must lower taxes on businesses, that way they have more leftover money to expand and employ middle class workers.
     
  25. Zenze

    Zenze Well-Known Member

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    If $250,000 is before he pays his employees then he doesnt make $250,000.

    And if he does make $250,000 the average american only earns $50,000 so considering he earns five times that amount I would consider it upper class.

    Also about the idea of building the economy from the upper class down... it seems silly to think that somehow aiding the upper class helps the middle class more than it helps the upper class itself...
     

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