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  1. hakr100

    hakr100 Well-Known Member

    What is your complete plan to house, feed, clothe, et cetera, the innocent children of those you infer are lazy parents? And...what if there are no jobs.

    Please be specific.
  2. ballisticn8

    ballisticn8 Well-Known Member

    if the parents arent responsible enough to be able to take care of the kids then they shouldnt have them... most parents on welfare see their kids as nothing more than a paycheck, the more kids, the higher the check. i grew up in south phoenix, i walked to school in the ghettos, hid behind walls and dropped to the ground for drive bys, and grew up dirt ass poor. my parents had $16 more in their bank account than welfare allowed, my dad worked two jobs, my mom worked for the schools. we didnt have new cars, credit card debt, big tvs, cordless phones, or anything else fancy for that matter, and my parents would wait to eat most nights to make sure we didnt go to bed hungry. the way the system is taken advantage of now is completely ridiculous.

    as for the kids that need housed, clothed, fed, et cetera, its pretty easy. you take all the money that tax payers are already paying that is supposed to go to housing and feeding and providing all medical care for the kids and you give it to them and dump the lazy ignorant leeches of the systems on their a$$es out on the streets and stop this endless cycle that currently exists where people continue to use and abuse the system because that is how they have been tought by their parental figures.

    as i said, there are people the need help, a helping hand isnt a problem, enabling people to be lazy and irresponsible is.
    Theodosius and IOWA like this.
  3. Zenze

    Zenze Well-Known Member

    ...umm I'm not sure on how your planning on preventing people from having kids. And you can't just give a bunch of money to little kids and expect them to know how to use it to take care of themselves...

    But I agree that a system that promotes a lack of work ethic and provides endless handouts is counterproductive. I'm still confused about the 5 year thing, I don't see how the government can go against its own laws, or even it if currently is.
  4. The current system encourages people who can't afford to have children to have more and more children. More children equals more government money and handouts. There is a strong incentive to pop out kid after kid. These same people have access to free condoms and other methods of birth control. Low cost or free abortions too. But they won't do that because each kid they have means more welfare, a bigger Section 8 home, etc. We need to take away the incentive and I bet the birth rates will drop.
  5. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants Moderator

    Agreed. If you can't afford a kid, it should be considered child abuse, and be taken away just like other child abusers. We shouldn't hand them money.
    damule6666 likes this.
  6. 330D

    330D From My Cold Dead Hands VIP Member

    Drug tests for welfare recipients should be mandated.
    damule6666 likes this.
  7. Zenze

    Zenze Well-Known Member

    agreed
    damule6666 likes this.
  8. hakr100

    hakr100 Well-Known Member


    And then what? Put them into drug rehab programs that are so over-booked, there won't be vacancies for months or even years?

    When you guys put forth your ideas for social experimentation, it would be nice to see fully thought out proposals.
  9. 330D

    330D From My Cold Dead Hands VIP Member


    Nope, let them take some responsibility for themselves. We as a society don't need to cure people of their drug habits, but we don't have to give them FREE MONEY for being addicts either. Sorry if it is heartless, but I got past my smokin dope phase, WITHOUT welfare. They can too.

    There are enough people who need our social programs, that don't have drug problems. Give the money to them.

    Why do you feel it is necessary to support people who CHOOSE to do drugs instead of getting a job? I think that you have a backward idea of what is right.

    I am not a conservative, so don't use that argument against me, either. I am all for social programs to help those who need it. But not for those who chose to get high instead of raising their kids, or going to work. If you were high all day at your job, would your boss still give you a check, or would you still have a job? If he/she would, then I am sure to see a failing business. If we give welfare recipients a lower standard than the rest of us, what are we teaching them? Rewarding them for breaking the law?
  10. Zenze

    Zenze Well-Known Member

    I am also not a conservative but I think that at the very least it would provide another incentive to stop their drug habits. Also I am for helping those who want and need it in certain situations, however not if they are not willing to help themselves too.
  11. hakr100

    hakr100 Well-Known Member


    Most "welfare" these days is in the form of aid to dependent children. Whatever the shortcomings of the parents, Draconian take-aways will hurt those innocent kids.
  12. 330D

    330D From My Cold Dead Hands VIP Member


    Then give the money to foster families who can take care of them.
  13. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants Moderator

    Or adoptive families. There are tons of people wanting adoptions. Seems like the obvious solution to me. And a take away to a more caring family would be more humane to say the least.
  14. hakr100

    hakr100 Well-Known Member


    There aren't enough foster families or adoptive parents to begin to absorb the kids that would need them. There isn't now. A very high percentage of the young homeless are products of foster homes that "expired" on them.

    Reminds me of the time Reagan pushed for "deinstitutionalization" of many of those residing in mental health facilities. Reagan said local facilities would grow to absorb those released. Well he never pushed Congress to fund those facilities and the local governments didn't have the funds, either, so the number of mentally ill homeless grew.

    Some solution.
  15. TheBeardedMann

    TheBeardedMann Well-Known Member

    hakr100,
    Yeah, put them into drug rehab. A 10% success rate (just throwing that number out there) is better than 0%. A druggie shouldn't be raising kids. Take away the kids. Not being able to afford kids is child abuse. A good adopted mother is a million times better than a horrible biological mother. Check up on the welfare families and not just by telephone. Go to the house and look at the living conditions. There are tons of jobs that can be filled by welfare recipients. I've seen people in orange jumpsuits picking up trash, why can't someone who is "needing a job" do the same? There are lots of "Work Release Programs" that put excons to work, put welfare recipients to work doing the same thing. Simple. Adopt a Highway. Lots of those signs. How about "Highway adopted by Zip Code 90221 Welfare Recipients" and make them clean up our highways. Dude, there are tons of answers for them.
    By the way, if you have cable, internet, cell phone, etc, you are rich. Maybe not extremely wealthy, but you live a rich lifestyle. Some people need to realize that. They seem to think those things are the norm.
    And comparing crop subsidies to welfare is just stupid, come on now.
  16. TheBeardedMann

    TheBeardedMann Well-Known Member

    I see celebs going overseas to get their pick of the litter all the time.
  17. 330D

    330D From My Cold Dead Hands VIP Member

    Maybe if we gave foster and or adoptive families more of a monetary supplement, there would be a lot more.... I would do it in a second, but could never afford to, as it stands now. I'm not saying that we need to "buy" these kids families, but I am sure it could help the problem of there not being enough foster families.
  18. hakr100

    hakr100 Well-Known Member

    It would take more than a "monetary supplement" for society to successfully place the burden for these hundreds of thousands or millions of these kids on foster families. Foster kids who are not placed with wealthy families are only given the short end of the stick in terms of financial and emotional support. There's only enough there for the cheapest of medical care, usually the worst schools, and very rare counselling. We'd really have to redo the entire system for it to be effective.

    And when foster kids reach 18, then what? As it is now, there's no more support. Many find themselves on the streets.

    I'm not defending drug-addicted parents with minor children.What i am positing is that the solution is far more complex and expensive than anyone is envisioning.
  19. IOWA

    IOWA Mr. Logic Pants Moderator

    So wait, your saying possibly making some of these children a productive member of society is more expensive than letting them keep in the cycle when perpetuates drugs, violence, and more leeching off the system? Please.
  20. 3devious

    3devious Well-Known Member

    It isn't that there aren't enough, the foster care systems are more broken than an iPhone trying to get a signal. In some areas, it is a county program. "Why is this a problem?" you say? If your county is stupid, the kid may not get adopted because he is black and they won't place black children with white or *ahem* mostly white people or the opposite.

    Such solutions should be handled locally and we need to keep an eye on these folks because they are the ones screwing it up. The rich losers at the top just sign papers, fund/don't fund things and are so far from reality that they should be fired.

    It just makes me want to kick someone in the junk when you are prevented from helping someone out "because."
  21. hakr100

    hakr100 Well-Known Member

    Most foster children programs are handled locally. One problem is that there are not nearly enough resources to handle the number of foster children there are today. And to keep an eye on foster parents and foster kids, we'd need a lot more social workers, and in most places they aren't paid diddley, so there is a glaring shortage of capable workers.

    I agree the system needs a total redo, but I don't see where the resources are. You know...money, personnel, will, political muscle.
  22. 3devious

    3devious Well-Known Member

    Yeah, people don't care until it affects them. :mad:
  23. dpizzo

    dpizzo Well-Known Member


    Sorry, I don't consider corporate welfare and subsidies conservative economics. I am aware of the hypocrisy of some so-called conservatives who do not see the conflict, but I do, as do most conservatives I know. I don't favor gov't intertwined with business, picking and choosing which business/industry gets political favors and who does not. Just because a policy is favored by someone with an (R) next to their name does not make that policy conservative.
  24. You just toss out liberal ballgagger logic and your claims - with no citations - whenever you want, don't you? Do you really expect people to believe the stuff you make up?

    As a result of liberals leading the charge in such libby powerhouses as Seattle, the mentally ill are usually just put in jail with sub-standard treatment due to liberal over-spending on everything else.

    Some solution.
  25. 330D

    330D From My Cold Dead Hands VIP Member

    Thing is, SOME help is better than giving tax dollars to drug addicted parents. Meaning, let us give all the welfare from the failed drug test families to a foster care system and see what it does. It isn't the end all to be all, but at least the money isn't supporting some drug dealer somewhere....

    I appreciate your arguments, but just sitting back and being negative and saying that a solution I offer just won't work is not really helping, eh? I am a simple kind of guy, and think on simple terms, just trying to offer something different.
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