Why is Google pushing the "cloud" so hard?

[divinebovine]

Nick i honestly dont know if its a language barrier or if your attitude is really so extreme as it reads but i honestly think you take this stuff too far mate. If you really are so annoyed with google, stop using it for the sake of your blood pressure

Some people are just like that. They do serve a useful purpose even when they're not spot-on. They bring attention to what sucks, they force everybody to examine it more critically and analyze it more, etc. Nick's got some great points, he just posts them too much for those of us who spend too much time on here...it's probably just right for normal people.

They probably have to lock it down to keep the music industry and RIAA happy. Otherwise Google probably couldn't get the rights to legally distribute their copyrighted music.




It's all protected by DRM, which Hollywood, MPAA, RIAA, publishers and other rights-holders insist on. Basically because they assume you're a thief and want to steal their stuff. That's not Google's or Apple's fault. Anything with DRM is a walled garden, by the very fact it's restricted to certain devices, and countries as well. And you have to play by their rules.

Oh man, I could rant about the RIAA the way nick rants about Google. I don't anymore, though...I've mostly stopped being their customer. I don't entirely avoid listening to music from RIAA-member publishers but I listen to a lot less of it.

 

[gtbarry]

This reminds me of telling my daughter, when she was little, "just because 'everybody else' is doing it, doesn't mean it's right."

Why do all those big companies want us in the cloud? Because THEY benefit financially. WE don't benefit, either financially or practically.

One power outage, one DDoS attack, one Internet outage and a business is screwed by not being able to access their data. I would never, in a zillion years!, rely on cloud storage ONLY. I think it's a fine and dandy option for backing up important data, but LIVE data? Never.

As a consumer, I don't agree that companies benefit financially. Cloud service companies pay to maintain server farms. And the real cost of a server is not the hardware purchase price in the slightest.

Meanwhile, if I subtract my Nexus device purchases - Google has received a percentage of about a total of $20 from me from app purchases. Nothing more. Ever. And I use gmail, Music, Books, Maps, chrome, drive, keep, Android, Hangouts, calendar, g+, youtube, voice, goggles, translate, etc. etc. etc. (Actually, if you want to pull out my Google ledger, they have paid me more than I have paid them by hundreds of dollars per the amounts of my AdSense checks I get from them.)

The alleged consumer benefits of the cloud are ease of access, scalability and lower storage demands on our personal hardware, etc. I do not believe in all that in the slightest. Mostly because I live in the USA and I don't believe that I have ever been guaranteed reliable and high-speed Internet ever. Also, like you, I am smart enough to know that relying on a conduit is a fool's endeavor.

 

[funkylogik]

Some people are just like that. They do serve a useful purpose even when they're not spot-on. They bring attention to what sucks, they force everybody to examine it more critically and analyze it more, etc. Nick's got some great points, he just posts them too much for those of us who spend too much time on here...it's probably just right for normal people

Man youre right there now i think about it.. although Nick IS one of us non-normal people who spend too much time on here lol. And i doubt if many of the normal people really care so much :beer:

 

[nickdalzell]

Quite frankly, I dont really care about being 'normal'. I'm very different than most humans if you ever got to know me personally. However, that's a topic for a new thread or PM

 

[funkylogik]

I know bro. Were all different. i was just poking fun at how you say the same things all the time. No harm intended :beer:

 

[SiempreTuna]

I dont really care about being 'normal'

Normal people are boring :rock:

.. least, that's what I keep telling myself

 

[funkylogik]

The only "normal" person ive ever met is my brother and even he has a freakishly big nose

 

[zuben el genub]

I never put all my eggs in one basket. I use a Windows PC, I don't run any programs from MS. Either Adobe or open source. I have an Android phone, I only buy apps via the PC, won't buy books or music from Google. I use Amazon - won't subscribe to their app store, or buy music from them. I deleted Google voice from the phone, never used it.
I use Gmail mostly for spam and get mail via POP3 or IMAP on all systems.
I have Yahoo mail for spam also, and keep it because I like the Yahoo Groups I belong to. Those groups stick to the subject at hand for posting so I don't have to read Grandma's details about a new grandchild. But I won't use Yahoo search, messenger or anything else.

Just to be even more stubborn, I've deleted all the main search engines from FX, and use Startpage, Ixquick and Duck Duck Go. Bing is in the host file on my computer.
I use the same search engines on Android. I have them bookmarked and use the bookmark.

I have about 10 different profiles on everything all over the place. I never use real name, age, or sex, and avoid location, if I can. It's really no one's business if I'm not spamming or trolling. I can mind my own business, and do.

It is getting harder to do this, but I'm stubborn and will continue as long as I can. I can see where Nickdalzell is coming from - I saw this coming years ago. I did work in marketing and the usage of more more more to sell sell sell. All mostly BS anyway. No commercial makes me WANT anything.
If you have grown up during the age of TV and marketing, you know no other way.

There are some people that eschew all TV and other programmed entertainment (they will play real board games and real cards) and find other things to do like hike, garden, mountain bike. There probably are HOAs that forbid vegetable gardening for your own use. The community garden population is soaring which is a comment on health, and cost of buying from a supermarket. Since a lot of the churches have the land, it's tax free which the city doesn't like. It means less interest in commercials and products which if you don't buy, there is no sales tax collected. You are anti-social!

 

[mplevy]

Thing with Google Music, it's not really your music like in the same way you own a record or CD, it's more like rented or leased. You stop paying the monthly fee, the music stops. It's a locked-down proprietary service, you can't play Google Music on iOS or Windows Phone AFAIK. They can do whatever they like, and if they don't want you to use SD cards and use the Google cloud instead, then that's what you got to do. You can't play Google Music outside of certain countries, like the United States or United Kingdom.

Other thing because it's not actually your music, if Google was discontinue this service for whatever reasons, that's it no more music. And that's actually what Google did with their cloud based music service here in China. They pulled the plug on it, no more songs. I had to find an alternative.

Except for those of us (raising hand) that uploaded their collection to Google Music and just stream the music they already own. No local storage on the device needed, and you can have multiple devices you can use to stream anything you own without plugging in to copy the music over.

 

[divinebovine]

^I was thinking of that, but then I don't upload music to the cloud. I guess this is unnecessary paranoia but I can't prove where all of my music came from and I worry that some day a new DMCA will come around that lets the RIAA dig through my non-shared personal stuff like the Spanish Inquisition.

I never put all my eggs in one basket. I use a Windows PC, I don't run any programs from MS. Either Adobe or open source. I have an Android phone, I only buy apps via the PC, won't buy books or music from Google. I use Amazon - won't subscribe to their app store, or buy music from them. I deleted Google voice from the phone, never used it.
I use Gmail mostly for spam and get mail via POP3 or IMAP on all systems.
I have Yahoo mail for spam also, and keep it because I like the Yahoo Groups I belong to. Those groups stick to the subject at hand for posting so I don't have to read Grandma's details about a new grandchild. But I won't use Yahoo search, messenger or anything else.

Just to be even more stubborn, I've deleted all the main search engines from FX, and use Startpage, Ixquick and Duck Duck Go. Bing is in the host file on my computer.
I use the same search engines on Android. I have them bookmarked and use the bookmark.

I have about 10 different profiles on everything all over the place. I never use real name, age, or sex, and avoid location, if I can. It's really no one's business if I'm not spamming or trolling. I can mind my own business, and do.

It is getting harder to do this, but I'm stubborn and will continue as long as I can. I can see where Nickdalzell is coming from - I saw this coming years ago. I did work in marketing and the usage of more more more to sell sell sell. All mostly BS anyway. No commercial makes me WANT anything.
If you have grown up during the age of TV and marketing, you know no other way.

There are some people that eschew all TV and other programmed entertainment (they will play real board games and real cards) and find other things to do like hike, garden, mountain bike. There probably are HOAs that forbid vegetable gardening for your own use. The community garden population is soaring which is a comment on health, and cost of buying from a supermarket. Since a lot of the churches have the land, it's tax free which the city doesn't like. It means less interest in commercials and products which if you don't buy, there is no sales tax collected. You are anti-social!

Quoted in entirety for awesome and truth. Also I have comments on a couple of the points made...

Everybody loves to hate POP3. POP3 is great because I get a copy of every email to keep stored on my own media within a few minutes of the email arriving.

HOAs are horrible. I fear that my neighborhood may try to create one. There was a loose neighborhood association responsible mainly for maintaining the lake around which our neighborhood is built but I understand lack of participation and donations has recently caused it to collapse. Shortly before that they were talking about incorporating as a tax district and implementing a HOA-style organization. I'd rather see the lake drained and my property value plummet than be subject to one of those stinkin' HOAs.

 

[mikedt]

Except for those of us (raising hand) that uploaded their collection to Google Music and just stream the music they already own. No local storage on the device needed, and you can have multiple devices you can use to stream anything you own without plugging in to copy the music over.

Main problem for me with Google Music, I live in China and go to the UK once or twice a year. I know it's available in the UK, but not China. So they would be geographically restricting access to my own music, that would not be satisfactory. Think if one was just staying in the one country where the service is available, and you can guarantee an always on unmetered internet connection it could work. I have WiFi at home, but my wireless is metered and so streaming could get rather expensive. I stream at home from Baidu sometimes, but this is usually songs I don't have, like when looking for something new to listen to. Or I'm just listening to internet radio, but again this is only at home, and not when travelling or just out and about.

I got a 32GB SD in the phone with maybe 20GB of FLAC and another 3GB of MP3 and Vorbis. Which covers pretty much all that I want to listen to on a regular basis. Can Google Music do lossless FLAC?

 

[wyndslash]

Google Music isn't available here either and there are some music that I can't get over their catalogue and have to buy the cd.

 

[mikedt]

Google Music isn't available here either and there are some music that I can't get over their catalogue and have to buy the cd.

It's not available on aircraft either. Wouldn't like to do 12 hours from Hong Kong (HKG) to London (LHR) and back again without my tunes and podcasts. Same thing with 22 hours on a train.

 

[mrex]

Don't know the answer, but I choose to disable Google Music in my phone. (uninstall updates, then you can disable the application) - it was an annoying app anyway... Always started and was in a background...

 

[funkylogik]

Ooh, you just gave me a thought. How do i stop my music player from starting every time i plug a headphone jack in? (Poweramp on galaxy s3) it happened earlyer when i plugged it into my hifi amp and i blasted my street with the AC podcast grr embarrasing

 

[mplevy]

It's not available on aircraft either. Wouldn't like to do 12 hours from Hong Kong (HKG) to London (LHR) and back again without my tunes and podcasts. Same thing with 22 hours on a train.

I don't travel that often. Last time I did (where I wasn't driving), I rented and cached 2 movies from Google and watched those, lasted the entire flight. If I didn't do that, I'd copy a few albums to my phone or tablet to listen to on the plane. Otherwise, my streaming is at work or when I go out for a walk for exercise.

 

[JIMV]

Today I read that Google has removed exterior SD card support from Google Music. It was already hard enough to get that to work requiring a hack to the system but now even the hack no longer works with the new version of Google Music. You can still store Music in your device memory but the majority of Google Music offerings will now be stored in that ephemeral construct known as the Cloud.

What benefit does that give to users who already have limited data plans? Does storing your music collection in the cloud benefit Google?

Here is where I display my ignorance...Can one not use a 3rd party music app like Neutron on these new phones and completely avoid the Google Play issue?

That said, I do believe phone manufacturers are tailoring their phones toward the desires of carriers and Google to make more money from cloud data plans.

I am to the point that the defining item on new phone buys is a SD card slot. No slot no buy. As fewer and fewer phones come with this basic, I am considering buying the best of the current lot with a slot and simply holding it for when my current phone dies.

As I wrote on another thread, I have no need for gadgets and gimmicks...just solid performance as a phone and Music player and a lot of storage.

 

[JIMV]

Seems to be a lot of hate for google. If i thought they were that evil i wouldnt use any of their services.
Theyre just a business and they provide us with some mega cool things that people take for granted. Imagine Google Earth had been around when you were a kid! It still blows my mind lol. Call me gullible or a fanboy but i honestly dont care. I AM a fanboy

I really like Google. Compared to Apple they are a breath of fresh air. That said, I used to like them a LOT more and this weeks G-mail privacy issues has soured me even more.

I have no problem with them trying to make money. I just dislike the current trend that takes control of ones property from the owner to the cloud where it is controlled by others. It is why I do my backups to separate hard drives parked in safe deposit boxes. Like my pictures, if the house burns to the ground or the cloud gets too greedy or oppressive, I still have my music.

 

[divinebovine]

Here is where I display my ignorance...Can one not use a 3rd party music app like Neutron on these new phones and completely avoid the Google Play issue?

Not familiar with Neutron but yes, 3rd party apps are a whole different ballgame, and I prefer them.

I am to the point that the defining item on new phone buys is a SD card slot. No slot no buy. As fewer and fewer phones come with this basic, I am considering buying the best of the current lot with a slot and simply holding it for when my current phone dies.

You have it right. Buy what you want or they won't sell it anymore. Vote with your dollars because that's the only vote that means anything.

 

[Sandgoose]

What benefit does that give to users who already have limited data plans? Does storing your music collection in the cloud benefit Google?

I don't understand the obsession with cloud myself specially how cheap and available mobile storage is.

 

[funkylogik]

Good thing about android phones vs apple is that we really dont have to play by googles rules but i choose to for now. If they annoy me and the bad outweighs the good, ill just take the google apps off my phone lol. It will work fine without them. i dont need them but i choose to "use" them. I probably get a better part of the deal than google get from me lol

 

[Ssith]

I never put all my eggs in one basket. I use a Windows PC, I don't run any programs from MS. Either Adobe or open source. I have an Android phone, I only buy apps via the PC, won't buy books or music from Google. I use Amazon - won't subscribe to their app store, or buy music from them. I deleted Google voice from the phone, never used it.
I use Gmail mostly for spam and get mail via POP3 or IMAP on all systems.
I have Yahoo mail for spam also, and keep it because I like the Yahoo Groups I belong to. Those groups stick to the subject at hand for posting so I don't have to read Grandma's details about a new grandchild. But I won't use Yahoo search, messenger or anything else.

Just to be even more stubborn, I've deleted all the main search engines from FX, and use Startpage, Ixquick and Duck Duck Go. Bing is in the host file on my computer.
I use the same search engines on Android. I have them bookmarked and use the bookmark.

I have about 10 different profiles on everything all over the place. I never use real name, age, or sex, and avoid location, if I can. It's really no one's business if I'm not spamming or trolling. I can mind my own business, and do.

It is getting harder to do this, but I'm stubborn and will continue as long as I can. I can see where Nickdalzell is coming from - I saw this coming years ago. I did work in marketing and the usage of more more more to sell sell sell. All mostly BS anyway. No commercial makes me WANT anything.
If you have grown up during the age of TV and marketing, you know no other way.

There are some people that eschew all TV and other programmed entertainment (they will play real board games and real cards) and find other things to do like hike, garden, mountain bike. There probably are HOAs that forbid vegetable gardening for your own use. The community garden population is soaring which is a comment on health, and cost of buying from a supermarket. Since a lot of the churches have the land, it's tax free which the city doesn't like. It means less interest in commercials and products which if you don't buy, there is no sales tax collected. You are anti-social!

just saying, multiple sources/services is no more intrinsically secure than a single source.

How Apple and Amazon Security Flaws Led to My Epic Hacking | Gadget Lab | Wired.com

 

[zuben el genub]

I've ripped amost of mine from CDs. Bought some from Amazon. Stored on different computer and USB hard drive.

I'm not doing it to be safe. I'm doing it because Google et al, expect you to, and I want to be a pain in the butt.

http://www.zdnet.com/google-and-fac...er-data-protection-laws-in-brazil-7000019508/

 

[IOWA]

Google is about as evil as it gets.

That's nothing "Evil" about trying to generate revenue. Google is after all, a for profit company. If you don't like Google Music service, there's nothing forcing you to use it.

I don't use Google Music because I like having local storage.

 

[Stannis the Mannis]

That's nothing "Evil" about trying to generate revenue. Google is after all, a for profit company. If you don't like Google Music service, there's nothing forcing you to use it.

I don't use Google Music because I like having local storage.

Excellent post. It still baffles me that some people can't realise that Google wants to make money.