• After 15+ years, we've made a big change: Android Forums is now Early Bird Club. Learn more here.

Why shouldn't Google get to use their search app in their google packet?

dan330

Extreme Android User
Jan 22, 2010
12,492
4,028
http://www.androidpolice.com/2015/1...ers-or-face-fine-equal-to-15-of-2014-revenue/

google does NOT make the phones... makers can do whatever they want.

Carriers do not need to purchase android phones.. they can get whatever they want.. and preload what ever they want.

Google started their business from internet searches.. and making $$$ from monetizing public searches.
They saw that mobile devices was the way of the future.. and wanted to capitalize on the mobile searches.
They created a free open source OS... use it if you want. DON'T if you don't want.
if you want to use the google package of apps.. that include their Play store... it will come with their search engine.

That was a great business strategy.. and they created a great free OS. use it the way you want. Even change it.
Use your own app store if you want.

OK.. it is a very great strategy.. that put them as the dominant search engine.
well that was the point... make it great.. and they will come.
yes.. this can be seen as a monopoly, but one that was decided by the market (Supply & demand).

you are allowed to load any extra apps as the customer wants.
Carriers can even preload any extra apps they want.. and make it uninstallable.
Google did NOT make it hard or block or reduce other companies' app services on android.

I hope that google does not cave in... somehow find a way to ignore that.. or let Russian Market express it's wants.
 
yes.. this can be seen as a monopoly, but one that was decided by the market (Supply & demand).

Funny, nobody said that when Microsoft were forced to offer alternative web browsers during Windows installation. Users always had the option to download and install something other than IE, but that wasn't good enough and everyone (bar MS) celebrated when the "browser chooser" appeared. ;)

Their complaint is that Google cannot have a rule requiring Google be the default (and only) search engine on devices that ship with the Play Store.

They can if it's a requirement of licensing Android i.e. if the T&C state that full Google Services support requires Search integration. You can't object to a rule that's written in plain sight and requires consent. Or rather you can, by not agreeing to it.
 
Upvote 0
YOU can change it. Hide the damn search bar with a launcher and don't allow updates.

Russia might want to censor Search to go along with its political internet policies and doesn't want to say so. It might also not be searching the internet, but searching the phone that's the problem. You can change the browser search engine, but what else does a search on your phone as readily?
 
Upvote 0
Funny, nobody said that when Microsoft were forced to offer alternative web browsers during Windows installation. Users always had the option to download and install something other than IE, but that wasn't good enough and everyone (bar MS) celebrated when the "browser chooser" appeared. ;)
.

as I remember it... Microsoft was doing some other underhanded things to make other web browsers not work effectively. Things in the OS.. that limited/slowed other browsers and made theirs faster... or harder to install.

here in Android.. it is very easy to install a new search app.
which is one of the major reasons we all like smartphones.. the ability to install new apps as needed.
"there is an app for that"
 
Upvote 0
I don't use a search app at all (and being rooted I uninstall the Google one - yup, don't use Google Now either). I have browsers, I can search from those, I can choose whatever search engine I want, and have different default search engines on different browsers.

BUT I know I'm not typical: most people use what's already installed and actually don't consider that there might be alternatives. So if Google stick a search bar on the homescreen and add a voice search app that uses their service, most people will use those without even considering whether there are alternatives. So I can see a case actually, but if so I'd like it to be applied consistently: if you end up with a "browser choice" situation with Android (where you have to offer people an explicit choice of default search provider) then Apple and Microsoft should be forced to offer the same choice. And my guess is that Google would be happy with that, because they have much better recognition in the search business than Yahoo or Bing, so you'd end up with iOS customers choosing Google rather than Apple's preferred search partner ;).
 
Upvote 0
yes.. I agree. MOST don't care.. they will use the default.
but if they cared.. they can easily get another search app. or anything else they want.
google made that easy.

but.. lets not forget why android was made..
google saw that mobile search was going to be a huge thing..
Palm OS, Microsoft, Apple, and even Nokia .. all had something going.
google wanted to join the new emerging market. so they created Android.
they made it free and open source for all to use. it was NOT a cheap thing.. or out of the goodness of their hearts! GOOGLE like all business, they are in it to make a profit.
how did they want to make money from this?
searches... searches.. wow.. google is a search engine company... duh

I don't think it is Unreasonable for them to make their search engine the default .. in their free open source OS.
and....
manufactures can change it...
Carriers can change it.
Users can change it.

I don't think google did anything wrong. and have every right to do what they did.
 
Upvote 0
I think the complaint is...

OS is free.
if they want the google app package.. and it requires a contract to install the full suite (details I am not sure of)
and part of that.. it comes with play store and google search. this is by default in the package.
it is a google package.. and it comes with google search. go figure.

manufactures can use android..
and load their own ... apps.
Amazon did this.. their own play store..
that Russian search company tried to do this... and failed.
now this Russian search engine company is crying that their crap sucks... want the gov to help them????
 
Upvote 0
Users can change it, but isn't the complaint that manufacturers and carriers can't?

Don't quote me on this 'cos I'm nothing more than an end-user, but I imagine that if an OEM/carrier agrees to 'license' Android i.e. install the full OS on their device(s) including Play Store/Google Services support then this also includes the requirement to include Google Search.

I think the complaint is...OS is free.

Android has never been free. The source code is GPL, but the core GApps are proprietary and always will be. You can do what you want with the OS (e.g. CyanogenMod) but if you want access to The Google Club you have to pay the piper.

If an entity e.g. Yandex doesn't agree to this then they are free to fork their own Android distro without the offensive elements, as is done in China (ask @mikedt for examples). However they can't pick and choose... I'm pretty sure the members of the OHA would object to such freeloading. Android isn't just a Google project any more.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
the point is...

google wants to make a profit.

google made android to help their search engine business

android is free.. no body is making manufactures use android.

manufactures are loading the google suite of apps...
because the public wants access to all the features and services...
it helps to sell phones.

so the public wants it... manufacture make it...
gov don't need to step in
 
Upvote 0
Yeah. It seems that what Yandex want is to have the rest of the Google services installed (because people won't buy the phones otherwise) but be allowed to make Yandex the default search engine (because people are not changing the default to Yandex themselves). It's not clear to me that they want to make a phone (expensive and risky), I'd think more likely they'd just pay Russian carrier's to make them the default search engine if they were allowed, and so are lobbying to be allowed to do that.

(Actually I can think of a couple of work-arounds that would provide the user with a choice without technically breaking Google's rules, but if they can't then more fool them. Anyway, it doesn't sound like choice is what they want so much as the ability to set themselves as default).
 
Upvote 0
manufactures are loading the google suite of apps...
because the public wants access to all the features and services...
it helps to sell phones.

so the public wants it... manufacture make it...
gov don't need to step in
Actually I'm a bit wary of such arguments: a few years back Microsoft would have argued the same way that people liked having their stuff pre-installed so there's no need for anyone else to get involved. So dubious as I am about what Yandex are trying to do, and doubtful as I am about the legal processes in Putin's Russia, a situation where one mobile OS becomes dominant in a market (and I don't know the market shares in Russia) and where that OS's manufacturer uses it to give a privileged position to their own services isn't one that I'm entirely comfortable with. So although I think they are entirely self-serving, and doubtless want to be allowed to make themselves the de-facto monopoly in Russia, there is something in the argument that bears watching.
 
Upvote 0
I think you cant see the forest through the trees...

google made android .. so that the can get more people to their search engine.
this is their major form of income. why would the make someone else the default??
if users don't like it... get a different phone.
makers put in a different package...

they even made it free.... even open source... and allowed users to replace it.

Microsoft was a different issue..
1. users paid for it!
2. Microsoft programmed in blocks to create issues for other browsers.
 
Upvote 0
Monopoly... ok.. I see some point it in this.

but... again.. google is a search engine company.
they made android to help with getting eyes to their service.

they did it well... so well..
that others have dropped off... Palm OS.. Nokia.. Blackberry

so.. because they did so well..
you want to take it away.. and put in another companies services.
just because... ?????

I don't see where google did anything wrong!
only thing they did wrong(in this case).. was doing it too well... and became the biggest.
so punish them... MONOPOLY!!!
take away their... 1st reason to make android in the first place... search engine.

really??
you think that is fair?
I must be blind.. and cant see the forest through the trees. totally missing something huge.
can someone clue me in???
 
Upvote 0
google is a search engine company.
they made android to help with getting eyes to their service.

Google may have begat Android, but they no longer "own" it. Many others have a finger in that pie... see OHA.

because they did so well..
you want to take it away.. and put in another companies services.
just because... ?????

Please re-read Hadron's post. He's not advocating anything, merely acting Devil's Advocate.

I don't see where google did anything wrong!

Nobody is claiming otherwise. However, different jurisdictions may have different interpretations of "monopoly" or "anticompetitive".

I must be blind.. and cant see the forest through the trees. totally missing something huge.
can someone clue me in???

All you're "missing" is that this action emanates from a foreign jurisdiction with its own rules. Right or wrong doesn't matter, as they'll go their own way regardless. The US doesn't see an issue, nor does the EU. Worst case scenario? Russia fines Google, Google flips the bird at Russia and pulls Android from Russian market, Russian users have to make do with non-GApps forks of Android (or unsupported grey imports). The world keeps spinning, and the only people who suffer are previously happy Android users. :rolleyes:
 
Upvote 0
I understand ... it is in someone else's back yard.
they get make their rules... I get that.
I have NO control to what they do..
and just because they can.. don't make it right.
Example: North Korea

what I am sayin...
I don't think it is fair. do not agree to what they are doing.
and argue with the excuses that they are using to do it.
and arguing with individuals that think the excuses are good one.

it may not change a thing.. it is just and online forum.. for discussion.
I be discussin :)
 
Upvote 0
For all whatever Russia wants to do:
The EU is trying to get the US out of storing EU data.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/07/technology/european-union-us-data-collection.html?_r=0 "Safe Harbor" is invalid.

The Russians might not want data from Google stored in the US. Neither would Best Korea.


I don't use or want Google search. I don't need it. I send myself a URL through Dropbox and then bookmark it if it's a site I would be using on the phone.

Dolphin can choose Duck as default and I have a link to Startpage.
 
Upvote 0
I think all browsers let you choose your own default search: in fact I open Ghostery or NB Pro for Duck and Firefox for Google (just how I set it up - quicker to open a different browser than change search engine).

And yeah, I'm semi playing devil's advocate, especially as I know nothing about the Russian market. But given how high the barriers to entry in the smartphone market are I could imagine one platform becoming dominant in some market (e.g. Windows phone dies and nobody can afford Apple), and a restrictive tie between that platform's OS and one corporation's services could be a cause for concern in that case. Actually if it came to that I don't think Google would have much to fear from a "browser choice" like requirement, because if the PC search market is anything to judge by they'd do just fine (I think Yandex want to be able to impose themselves as the default rather than offer an explicit choice). In fact if I were them I'd probably offer that rather than pull out, because if they were to withdraw the Google apps from Russia Samsung might see it as their chance to get _someone_ to use their versions ;)
 
Upvote 0

BEST TECH IN 2023

We've been tracking upcoming products and ranking the best tech since 2007. Thanks for trusting our opinion: we get rewarded through affiliate links that earn us a commission and we invite you to learn more about us.

Smartphones