Windows 7 Phone will never beat out Android


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  1. bmckenzie90

    bmckenzie90 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    So am I the only one that has noticed the complete hypocrisy when it comes to Microsoft and their phones?

    Here's an ad for the old Microsoft "Your phone is your life" phone, Kin:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZl9esYi2KE
    (Notice that about every 5 seconds, someone is on their phone... and it's a good thing? Woo 100% synchronization between your life and your social life!)

    And here's an ad for the phone to save you from your phone, Microsoft Windows 7 Phone:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHlN21ebeak
    (In this one, everyone's on their phone, but it's a bad thing. Live life, get off Facebook!)

    So, Kin was a disaster. It was a clunky phone directed towards social networking at it's core. It failed because it was an awkward piece of hardware that didn't focus on being a phone. No apps, no UI customization, practically a Facebook phone.

    In answer to their failed platform, Microsoft spins 180 degrees in the opposite direction with their new phone who's ad campaign that says "A phone to save us from our phones." So in theory, it's UI is so quick and easy, that it minimizes time spent on your phone... but wait a second... Let's look at what has made successful phone OS's in the past...

    Google Android Benefits:
    - Customization. You can make it look and act however you want.
    - Unlimited user development. As Verizon states for the Droid "When there's no limit to what Droid gets, there's no limit to what Droid does."
    - Hardware/software "hacking" that's legal, ROMS, etc.
    - Top-of-the-line models are available for reasonable new contract prices.
    - Ability to functionally emulate other phone OS's.

    Drawbacks:
    - No limit to where Android goes, means that sometimes it's placed on "POS" hardware that makes it a clunky, non user friendly experience.
    - New platform means a small user base and limited number of apps, though this is growing.
    - Updates to firmware/software take forever because of different carriers testing and loading custom software.

    So the main competitor of Android is iOS, Apple's iPhone...

    Apple iOS Benefits:
    - Solid hardware, every time. Some think to a fault, Apple makes sure that its iOS is only on solid hardware that can run it extremely well.
    - Large user base/advertisement campaign: Apple is a well known brand and has a myriad of developers at it's disposal. Huge app market.
    - Hardware is constantly improving, whereas Android phones are at the mercy of many manufactures.

    Drawbacks:
    - Apple's iOS is limited by what Apple approves. Many developers shy away due to having to jump through hoops to get their apps approved.
    - No customization, aside from wallpapers.
    - Only ONE piece of hardware. No options.
    - One (soon to be two) carrier(s). Some people are just SOL because iOS isn't on their carrier.

    So what is the Windows 7 phone seem to be?

    Microsoft Windows 7 MobileOS Benefits:
    - Hardware choices. Many different devices to chose from. (+ than iOS, = to Android)
    - Top-of-the-line models available. (= to iOS, = to Android)
    - Unique interface. (= to iOS, = to Android)
    - Probable easy sync/access to Windows PCs.

    Drawbacks:
    - Closed market (though more open than iOS). Developers must jump through hoops. (=to iOS, - than Android)
    - No customization. The UI has almost no customization options and is held tight to it's regulations. (= to iOS, - than Android)
    - New platform means a small user base and limited number of apps, though this is growing. (- than iOS, soon to be - than Android)
    - Windows 7 phone has no set hardware. Like Android, low end versions will appear. (- than iOS, = to Android)
    - Updates to software/firmware will take forever due to many different phones. (= to Android, - than iOS)

    It seems to me that Windows 7 Phone is another doomed failure. It has all the drawbacks of both platforms, and very few of the perks of either. I don't think what the world needs right now is another smart phone, unless this Windows 7 Phone series is going to revolutionize the phone experience, I'll pass. Personally, I bought my smart phone because I can do more on it. Not because I want to spend less time on my phone... just saying.

    Your thoughts?
     

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  2. Light Speed1

    Light Speed1 Banned

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    So android's benefits: "Customization. You can make it look and act however you want."
    the ui experts at microsoft know more about user interface than I do, my job isnt to customize the OS interface. I buy a windows PC that has the interface perfectly designed. windows phone 7 comes with a world class design. Thats what I pay hundreds of dollars for. not a clock taking up half the screen and search box too in android.

    I have a feeling integrated will triumph over fragmented
     
  3. bmckenzie90

    bmckenzie90 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Makes sense. But what if you DO want to change something? With Windows 7 Phone, you're SOL. And while it's true that the default launcher for Android lacks luster it is FAR from fragmented.

    The default launcher is completely customizable (icons, wallpapers, widgets, etc) and lets you do whatever you want with it, but there is the Sense UI on HTC Android phones, Launcher Pro that lets me make a kick-arse theme like I made below:
    [​IMG]
    Looks pretty sexy and world class to me. Heck, it looks a lot like a windows inspired OS!

    There's also SlideScreen that's an easy to set up download that integrates everything you want into your homescreen, just like the W7P UI only with MORE functionality.
    There's also Zune Home that will eventually progress into a full fledged Launcher that will certainly replace the one I use currently.

    I'm a fan of doing what I want with my phone. Windows 7 Phone's "world-class" design is going to keep me from doing that. Android allows for my OWN design.

    With Windows 7 Phone, you'll face all of the drawbacks of the two lead OS's with few of the benefits of either. Just because you don't care about customization doesn't mean you're not going to face everything else.

    In my opinion, the only thing "World Class" about Microsoft is it's burning desire to re-invent the wheel, and often do it poorly. Kin. Vista. Previous Mobile OS's.

    But you may be right. One of the things that keeps the iPhone at the lead is that people sometimes don't want to have to do ANYTHING to their phone. They want pure awesomeness out of the box. Android is getting there after a few years of development, but it can always be customized to be better and do things that it wasn't necessarily intended to do. W7P won't let you do anything of the sort. Even iPhones are rooted or "jailbroken" because people feel a NEED to do more with their phone than Apple intended. I guarantee that Microsoft's new baby will be hacked to smithereens upon it's release. Android is great to start, but requires nothing to do what has to be hacked from other mobile OS's.
     
  4. conor.in

    conor.in Well-Known Member

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    There is a happy medium somewhere. I feel that WP7's forced specs allow for a great end-user experience, and Android needs some of that. I think that when 3.0 releases, Google/Android needs to specify a certain baseline for the hardware, to ensure quality, and maybe stipulate a certain upgrade policy. (Can they do that and keep it "Open Source?")
     
  5. Light Speed1

    Light Speed1 Banned

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    no, they cant do that and keep it open source. the only reason the OEMs use android is because it has "no rules" and no restrictions
     
  6. bmckenzie90

    bmckenzie90 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    First, nothing is impossible. No one ever thought Google, Apple or Microsoft would ever amount to anything in the beginning, but now all three make phone OS's, haha.

    Secondly, you CAN keep it open source. Open source has nothing to do with the hardware. It's all software. Setting a base-line for the hardware does nothing but make sure that users of Android all experience it running at full speed. Anyone can still make apps, UI changes, etc. I can run all the software I have on my Mesmerize, on the old Acclaim that I had. It would just run slow and clunkly. There are no limits to what you can do on the Acclaim, but the hardware hinders the experience greatly.

    Making sure that everyone has capable hardware will do nothing but draw more developers to a platform that only has ONE limit - hardware. It doesn't shut developers out. Windows 7 Phone does just what iPhone does, regulates SOFTWARE.

    I agree. Just like the iPhone, a forced uniform interface will make for a GREAT user experience, however even though Windows 7 Phone has "forced specs" they are relatively low.
    More Windows Phone 7 specs revealed
    Which means that there will be low-end models and high-end models that run the OS differently, which means it's NOT going to be a uniform experience like iOS.

    The bottom line is this: Android should set a baseline for their hardware. This does not make it less open-source, it insures that all android phones run the software well. Android isn't technically a phone, it's an OS that is run on a phone. It should have minimum system requirements just like a computer OS.

    iOS and W7P do have it right when it comes to regulating hardware, but limiting software leads people to jailbreaking, etc, to bypass the SOFTWARE regulations.

    Android is open-source because it does not limit software development. It really is true that when there is no limit to what it gets, there's no limits to what it can do. It just needs to insure that the hardware doesn't ever give people a poor-experience.
     
  7. conor.in

    conor.in Well-Known Member

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    Alright. That's legitimate. I feel like Android is still the best OS for those of us who come here. However, I have multiple friends who constantly whine about how complicated it is, just because all they want is text, web, and a camera.

    They're made for WP7. Android is for tinkerers.
     
  8. Light Speed1

    Light Speed1 Banned

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    I know, thats why im getting a wp7 device. btw android will never have a baseline
     
  9. PinkMirrorKirby

    PinkMirrorKirby Well-Known Member

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  10. bmckenzie90

    bmckenzie90 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    You're sure of this, why? It's a great idea to only release Gingerbread (3.0) devices that are capable of running it well. With 2.0, anything could "run" it, but it sometimes got slow and lethargic. Give old devices the ability to update to 3.0 or backtrack if they can't handle it. Then, only let new devices with capable hardware be released with 3.0. No more low end devices are released, and older low ends can update if they want. It's not unheard of. Apple DID leave their 1st Gens out of the new updates so that they could better their OS with new hardware.

    And as far as the minimum hardware for Windows 7 phones, I researched it more and I admit that the minimum specs of the phones are pretty darned good. It will be a great out of the box phone. However, these minimum specs for Windows 7 Phone are coming out right at the peak of technology in the area. Android came out when these specs were unheard of, yet it is STILL around, running flawlessly on my 1ghz Hummingbird processor and still evolving. It's great that W7P is jumping in when the hardware is great, and setting the newest technology as it's minimum.

    My bottom line is this: People have been arguing for a very long time that iOS's only flaw is that Jobs regulates it's software so tightly, and they've been finding complex ways around it since iPhone came out. This new Microsoft phone will be no different.

    Doing whatever I want with my phone is a big deal to me. It's MY smart-phone, so why should it be limited to what Apple or Microsoft thinks is OK for my phone to have?

    Android lets me do whatever I want to with MY phone. You can't even change your icons on iPhone or W7P. I like that I can go into photoshop and create an icon and use it with almost no effort. I love that I can have animated wallpapers (that in all honesty, don't drain my battery). I like that my phone is MY phone. With the others, your phone is the companies phone and you're at their mercy.

    If the only reason OEMs use Android is because there's no limit to what it goes on.... why then would any OEM use W7P that has so many restrictions....?


    Agreed, WP7 is made for people who want less options to tinker with which equals easier use, but then does that put it even in the same classification of phone as Android phones?
     
  11. Light Speed1

    Light Speed1 Banned

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    "
    My bottom line is this: People have been arguing for a very long time that iOS's only flaw is that Jobs regulates it's software so tightly, and they've been finding complex ways around it since iPhone came out."


    that isnt a flaw, its a benefit. what do you mean by regulated software? you mean cant be customized? windows PC is about as regulated as the iphone, and windows pc is a successful integrated experience. so i fail to see your argument..
     
  12. Light Speed1

    Light Speed1 Banned

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    "tinkerers" are such a small minority of people, and android only suits them. this is why android is destined for failure...

    the android experience isnt consistent between handsets because of the different oem skins. this is a horrid experience. i mean shit, the order of the hardware buttons arent even consistent. and whats the point of a menu button, wp7 shows you dont need a menu button to further confuse the end user.
     
  13. bmckenzie90

    bmckenzie90 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Regulated software means that if I want to go to an iphone and change something about how it works I'm out of luck. Say, I think it would be cool if I could make the icons on my homescreen bounce for a brief few seconds when I press them, instead of highlight, I can't unless I jailbreak my phone, void it's warranty, and then do it, because Apple will say "You can't do that." WHY NOT?! I want 5 icon columns in my homescreen as opposed to just 4. There's no way to do that unless you jailbreak. There's plenty of room on the iphone homescreen to put more apps on each page, but you can't because Apple regulates everything about their phone. You can't change the dock graphic. You can't make widgets, or place your friends directly on your home screen. All these things came about on Android because users wanted it, and users made it happen. That can't happen on WP7 or iOS in any way close to Android. Android want, Android get. iOS/WP7 want, ask your OS Mommies, respectively.

    On Android, if I want to change something about my phone, I can. No questions asked.
     
  14. bmckenzie90

    bmckenzie90 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    You're right. Tinkerers are a minority, but you don't have to be a tinkerer to appreciate customization. Though the actual iPhone is the lead selling smart-phone, android software takes up a little over 40% of the smart-phone market, with iOS getting almost 30%.

    And it's Android..... Don't like your OEM's skin? Go to the market and download a different one. You're missing the whole point. With Android, you're not stuck with what the OEM thinks you should have software wise and it's the only OS that lets you have infinite choice. You can always make it better.
     
  15. Light Speed1

    Light Speed1 Banned

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    I dont understand your point. theres more to a UI than the homescreen. the homescreen limit of android customization. Even if thats not the limit, most people dont want to be bothered with redesigning everything. look at windows. all windows computers have the same UI. if you want to be a tinkerer, you get linux.

    Most people are not tinkerer and do not want to customize the OS. I am a designer, and even I dont want to be bothered with customizing an OS which at the os level feels barebones. the media player is very poor compared to the zune on WP7, ive tried both and the zune is just generations ahead of it.
     
  16. bmckenzie90

    bmckenzie90 Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    Even if most people are not tinkerers, Android does not require you to tinker. It's solid out of the box, and out of the box has features that I, as an avid Apple fan, wish iPhone had. It's a platform that keeps evolving and has an unlimited developer base. Windows phone is going to be an extremely limited UI. I don't doubt that it will have a wide user base (lots of Microsoft Fanboys out there, lol) and eventually a wide range of apps, but Android is already well on its way to having the same fan base as iPhone and a huge app market. Android DOES everything that Windows Phone will do, and more. You can't change anything about Windows Phone, and if you like it the way it is, then more power to you.

    And you're assuming a lot by saying that tinkerers get linux. Take a look around the web for custom themes for Windows XP. There is a plethora of websites dedicated to modifying XP. I'm a tinkerer, and I loathe Linux.
     
  17. Light Speed1

    Light Speed1 Banned

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    whats funny is high end android phones come with like 196 MB of storage. Think about that, the minimum storage for wp7 is 8 GB
     
  18. Light Speed1

    Light Speed1 Banned

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    most people do not get custom themes for windows xp, they leave the thing alone because it makes sense stock.

    thats the difference. Theres a good UI that you will stick with out of the box, and thats what most people want. WP7 is that. android is not. (not consistent with 6 diff skins, and not good, very laggy not responsive, and same grid of icons which is tiring)
     
  19. PinkMirrorKirby

    PinkMirrorKirby Well-Known Member

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    And you are very annoying and arrogant, and the same kind of attitude to Android which is tiring as well.

    Honestly if you want to flame about Android, do it somewhere else (Windows Phone 7 Forums)
     
  20. Light Speed1

    Light Speed1 Banned

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    "If the only reason OEMs use Android is because there's no limit to what it goes on.... why then would any OEM use W7P that has so many restrictions....?"


    because wp7 is the first true competitor to the iphone.
     
  21. Light Speed1

    Light Speed1 Banned

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    im not flaming android, im posting my opinion. can you show me where in my opinion i am flaming? is it not true that there are 6 different skins? is it not true that that creates inconsistency between android handsets for the useras?
     
  22. Martimus

    Martimus One bite at a time... Moderator

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    What's even funnier is that you're fixating on one specific phone with limited memory!

    My Droid X has 8gb of internal memory. I think the Droid 2 and Galaxy S phones also have at least 8gb of memory. Phone manufacturers in the Android space make their own decisions: good, bad, or otherwise. Do phone manufacturers in the Windows Phone 7 space have that same freedom? Sure! So long as their choice meets or exceeds mother Microsoft's minimum specs...
     
  23. PinkMirrorKirby

    PinkMirrorKirby Well-Known Member

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    Android devices can use MicroSD Expandable memory cards which boost the Galaxy S, Droid X, Droid 2 can have up to 40 GB of memory.

    Phone manufacturers find Android tempting as it allows wide array of customizations, so no Android phone is alike. Whilst that Windows Phone 7 or iOS looks almost EXACTLY the same.
     
  24. Light Speed1

    Light Speed1 Banned

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    once again, there is more to the UI than the "skin"

    no theme in the world will make the stock android media player look and FUNCTION as good as the zune. (one of many examples, you could say the same for games and ms office, and everything else)

    [​IMG]


    I guess what im trying to say is the core android OS isn't designed up to par to what I believe is a good design.
     
  25. Light Speed1

    Light Speed1 Banned

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    all windows PCs look "exactly" the same

    and guess what, 90% of computer sales are windows. so apparently its a winning formula.
     
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