With Rumors Abound of "eFUSE".....


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  1. bladebarrier

    bladebarrier Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFUSE

    Will you still be getting the X?

    If this eFUSE system is really integrated into the X, and is as nasty as it sounds, it could very well essentially kill the hacking community for the X.

    As this was to be my first phone, I'm highly considering the purchase of a used Droid, and waiting the X out, or going with the Incredible.

    As someone that came from the iPhone, this really is a smack in the pants, when I thought I was freeing myself from the Steve Jobs types of the world, and moving into something much more open.

    In a year, will this phone be useless, as it still might not be able to overclock, or use custom themes, as well as the other perks of custom ROM's/kernels/rooting? I can only assume that phones will be up to 2ghz by then, and if not, they certainly will be before my new contract would be up.

    I am making the switch to VZW for service/reliability issues, so that will need to be my carrier anyways, but I'm starting to get cold feet about a two-year contract, considering the fact that so many people seem to find that Android phones upgrade at such a high rate of speed (though the Droid seemed to hold its value a long time, due to the ROMs, overclocking, community, etc..).

    I'm showing barely used (under 6 months) Droids for sale, with full accessories, for $200 or less, on Craigslist, in my area.

    Your thoughts for a first time Android buyer?

    --bb
     

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  2. jamo

    jamo Well-Known Member

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    I'm upgrading from a Droid to the X, and I think it'll last for quite awhile. A lot of people are sticking with the original Droid, without rooting, ROMing, and over-clocking; I think the X will be the same. Also, it's sounding like root might be achieved, just not ROM installation. I would be fine with root and the ability to overclock, if necessary. Honestly, however, I would be happy with Froyo and/or Gingerbread, rather than flashing custom ROMs every other day.
     
  3. bladebarrier

    bladebarrier Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    If that's the case, I'd be ok with purely rooting and overclocking (down the road). As long as it was capable within say, 6 months to a year.

    But the follow thread has me concerned it could be worse than that:

    How the Droid X is locked down? Let me tell you what I know.
     
  4. kwest12

    kwest12 Well-Known Member

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    bladebarrier,

    It's pretty clear you've read up on the eFuse protection a little bit b/c your statements about it destroying or greatly diminishing the hacker effort are most likely correct. I don't know if I can bring myself to buy a phone that may not even be rooted.

    I think you may want to provide some links (in your OP) for the folks who haven't had a chance to read about eFuse b/c there has been quite a bit of talk about boot loaders in AFs. This, as you know, is another issue altogether (an even more restrictive one).

    I want to throw this out there too: if the thought is that eFuse can brick a phone just by tampering with whatever the heck hackers tamper with to try and gain root, is it possible that we would see phones getting bricked by doing something like loading a non-market apk? That thought leads to this one: in a different thread, I warned that if people didn't really cause a HUGE fuss about the boot loader encryption, Motorola was probably gonna keep taking stuff from us. Guess what, they may have taken root access from us.

    Here's my next prediction: the ability to side-load apps will disappear with Motorola's next round of phones. Let me pose a question to all you folks saying the encrypted boot loader wasn't of concern to you: are you concerned now?! I certainly hope so.


    EDIT: The comment section here http://stevenbird.info/2010/07/10/the-droidx-security-and-discovery/ informs my post.
     
  5. Paznos

    Paznos Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure side loading apps wouldn't brick the phone, regardless of what security measures they have in place, if they wanted to prevent side loading they would just disable it from the phone like AT&T is doing with their Android phones.
     
  6. jamo

    jamo Well-Known Member

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    I'll trade more RAM, faster processor, bigger screen, and DIVX support for ROMs. I really liked loading ROMs on my Droid, but I got it without knowing I could. I honestly could do whatever I need with LauncherPro and more RAM, really.
     
  7. kwest12

    kwest12 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, I'll compromise and say that they'll just remove it, not make it brick the phone. Still, can someone remind me why I should go with Android if this type of stuff keeps up.... I mean isn't all the openness one of the main reasons we all became Android fans instead Apple sheep?

    It's startling how many sheep-like comments I'm seeing in AFs when I make posts that point out the lock-downs Motorola/Verizon are starting to make (FYI, I'm not necessarily referring to any of the comments in this thread). I really hope I don't wake up one of these days and confuse Android for iOS.
     
  8. Paznos

    Paznos Well-Known Member

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    Well it's probably something that we will start seeing more and more of unfortunately and if not Android what's the alternative if custom ROMs are what your looking for in a phone?

    I still don't think they would remove the ability to side load apps, the reason they are locking the bootloader is to protect their IP.
     
  9. bladebarrier

    bladebarrier Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    At least on the plus side, the Droid X doesn't have any reports of dropped calls, due to holding it incorrectly. :D

    The hardware seems fantastic, but for those of us that want to really get two years of keeping-up-with-the-jones' while using it (like Droid users have been able to with the more modern Androids), it seems like we're concerned that the "Jones'" we'll be keeping up with are the iPhone users, instead of keeping up with more progressive hardware and operating systems.

    Google made a great leap forward with mobile technology, pushing themselves into a market that is very new to them, and allows real creativity.

    Motorola made a big push back into the cell phone market when they made the excellent Droid. I'm not sure why they would risk their comeback as a producer of fine mobile communication equipment, by using a technology that can brick your phone to the point of requiring Motorola to restore it. I doubt IBM pressured them into it.... Were that many Droids returned/repaired due to user error?

    /I still plan on buying the X on Thursday, to at least give it a test, but I'm skeptical that it I will keep it. I suppose a one year contract might make more sense for me, but I'm just not sure I can support what Motorola is doing, when HTC is still releasing phones that don't play into this garbage.
     
  10. bladebarrier

    bladebarrier Well-Known Member This Topic's Starter

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    The bootloader is one thing.

    Possibly not being able to root, theme, or overclock, maybe for many months, if ever, is another. I agree with you, that maybe they're protecting the provider from disallowed tethering, and I can certainly understand that side of the argument, but the other bonuses from rooting seem far more important to me. And if tethering is the main issue, than wouldn't all Android phones be locked into something similar. If the Samsung predictions are correct, they won't have such a protection, nor does the HTC.

    $20 a month, for a very limited tether, I'm sure makes people consider sidestepping the provider, but they could address that in better ways.
     
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  11. kwest12

    kwest12 Well-Known Member

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    TBH it sounds like the iPhone 4 may be more hackable than the Droid X. I'll be honest, I am not keeping up on Apple products, but when I do shoot over to Engadget I'll read a few of the iPhone articles. I'm pretty sure I've read that the iPhone has been jail broken and has even been given a Froyo port. Meanwhile, we Droid X users are going to be sitting on our thumbs waiting for the manufacturer updates.... Oh, and did I mention we may not even get root access? Yikes.

    Now if this pattern continues and it turns out I can't get openness from any OS, I guess I may as well choose the most mature OS right? In all honesty, the iPhone 4 does have a greater quantity of apps and higher quality apps overall. Also, when it comes to accessories, no Android phone even holds a candle to what is available for the iPhone: I mean my Toyota even has dedicated "iPod/iPhone" port it (it's a USB port w/ soft/firmware to read an iPod/iPhone).

    It makes me sick even having to consider buying an Apple product, it really does. Luckily, I won't have to buy an iPhone 4 b/c right now, I do think that the Android hardware fits me better (screen size). TBH though, Google is just lucky that Apple didn't release a 4.3" model of their phone [yet] or bring it to the other carriers... Fortunately, this has left Android a lot of room to compete. However, if Apple brings the iPhone to the other carriers next year and also drops a bigger screen on it, Google may not be able to continue increasing its smartphone market presence nearly as quickly (if at all).

    I believe that Android needs something to really set itself apart, and until this all locking-down started, it had that "something": its openness. Unfortunately, unless Google can find a way to crack the whip, the phone manufacturers and the carriers are going to keep trying to make Android more and more like iOS (closed), instead of maintaining the competitive advantages that they have (openness).

    I apologize for getting off topic, but the whole eFuse debacle really frightens me: I can live with a phone that's locked down for now, but this type of thing just may contribute to Apple striking down Android in the long run. Now THAT is something I can't deal with! :(
     
  12. Paznos

    Paznos Well-Known Member

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    And I agree with you, I'm in no way in support of what Motorola is doing and if I wasn't in the market for a new phone on Verizon I probably wouldn't get the Droid X and would probably get Fascinate for the very reason of not being locked down but we still don't know when it's coming out and I'm a little weary of Samsungs phone quality.
     
  13. 10splaya22

    10splaya22 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it will matter to me. Ill be happy with it then when we get froyo and whatever else it will be even better. So I wish it wasn't locked but you never know, someone may have a solution eventually but we will see.
     
  14. D13

    D13 Well-Known Member

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    All this stuff is making me really nervous on the future of Android. I mean I am thinking about waiting, even past the Fascinate, but it may be in vain if this is Android's or at least Motorola's future. My Droid makes Android so exciting everyday for me but I guess we will just have to wait and see what will happen.:(
     
  15. kwest12

    kwest12 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder how Google/Motorola/HTC/The Carriers would feel if we geeks stopped going crazy trying to get pre-release info on these phones: hell, what if stopped caring about Android altogether? Sounds to me like a lot of free hyping and advertising down the drain (not to mention a decent amount of sales).

    Motorola, get rid of the mother f#$%ing eFuse and remove the damn encryption on the boot loader. You haven't lost us yet, but do you really want to flirt with the possibility of us abandoning you? If you have a crystal ball that shows you Apple's next move, then maybe you're on the right path and we don't know it.... sure doesn't look that way from where I'm standing though.
     
  16. genxgeek

    genxgeek Well-Known Member

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    Maybe I missed it but have we seen anything that should lead us to believe that the x will being using the Efuse tech, or is it just speculation?
     
  17. D13

    D13 Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree, WTF You're killing me Smalls. I mean just don't do it, just let us be enthusiast and destroy every itty bitty leak. Let us want to go to midnight night releases and have 1000's of posts all about the PHONES. But don't give us a reason to even think about the f-ing Iphone.
     
  18. Paznos

    Paznos Well-Known Member

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  19. aleis

    aleis Well-Known Member

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    i think yall blowing it out of proportion.
    its the hardware stupid! :)
    the OS is by default the best out (once we have froyo on it).
    the OS will forever be hackable. its nothing computer related that isnt.
    but!
    glad all yall changing ya minds, more chance of me walking in and out on thursday :)
     
  20. ckochinsky125

    ckochinsky125 Banned

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    ha yeah agree with you the more people who wait for something else the easier it is for me to get my X lol
     
  21. ckochinsky125

    ckochinsky125 Banned

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    I don't root anyway and am going to get a 1 year contract in case i find something i like more in a year or so but people are putting way to much into this. In another thread i saw people are already working to crack the X's bootloader so we shall see what happens
     
  22. Agfox

    Agfox Active Member

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    I'll still buy it now. I have 30 days to tinker with it and see if it's good enough as is. If not there's always the next device. Thankfully we have lots of choices right now.
     
  23. HoldenCaufield

    HoldenCaufield Well-Known Member

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    I'd bet dollars to donuts (mmmm, donuts) that the reason for the encryption and un-root-ability of the X was done at the requirement of Verizon. They stand to loose a lot of $$$$ if hackers can get in there and tether their devices for data for free. Motorola wouldn't have spent undoubtably a pant load of cash to encrypt the boot loader if it didn't have to.
    It's all about the money.

    The thing I don't understand is this efuse thing. The above linked wiki article actually makes it sound like a good thing for chipset reliability and speed. Correct me if I'm wrong.

    About openness, I don't think that loosing root access means that android is going the way of apple. I think there's still a ton of stuff you can do to and with your phone that would have Steve Jobs crapping in his jockey's. But I do agree that it's a step in the wrong direction.
     
  24. dookie1

    dookie1 Well-Known Member

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    proof of eFuse in the X? i skimmed the linked thread and saw a lot of reaction and essentially zero solid evidence.

    my mom 'knew' elvis, y'know...
     
  25. D13

    D13 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah me and kwest12 needed a good venting session:p
     

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