With Rumors Abound of "eFUSE".....

[egut125]

I'd bet dollars to donuts (mmmm, donuts) that the reason for the encryption and un-root-ability of the X was done at the requirement of Verizon. They stand to loose a lot of $$$$ if hackers can get in there and tether their devices for data for free. Motorola wouldn't have spent undoubtably a pant load of cash to encrypt the boot loader if it didn't have to.

Motorola locked down the bootloader of the Milestone first, and that never came close to Verizon's hands...

 

[JrzDroid]

nothing can sway me from the DX after what I saw today.
Moto rep at a Verizon kiosk had a ROOTED dx with him that was overclocked to 2.2 ghz (and froyo 2.2). We started talking and he said that with all the hype behind this phone the bootloader doesn't stand a chance and xda is gonna break it wide open.

2 days!!

 

[soapinmouth]

TBH it sounds like the iPhone 4 may be more hackable than the Droid X. I'll be honest, I am not keeping up on Apple products, but when I do shoot over to Engadget I'll read a few of the iPhone articles. I'm pretty sure I've read that the iPhone has been jail broken and has even been given a Froyo port. Meanwhile, we Droid X users are going to be sitting on our thumbs waiting for the manufacturer updates.... Oh, and did I mention we may not even get root access? Yikes.

Now if this pattern continues and it turns out I can't get openness from any OS, I guess I may as well choose the most mature OS right? In all honesty, the iPhone 4 does have a greater quantity of apps and higher quality apps overall. Also, when it comes to accessories, no Android phone even holds a candle to what is available for the iPhone: I mean my Toyota even has dedicated "iPod/iPhone" port it (it's a USB port w/ soft/firmware to read an iPod/iPhone).

It makes me sick even having to consider buying an Apple product, it really does. Luckily, I won't have to buy an iPhone 4 b/c right now, I do think that the Android hardware fits me better (screen size). TBH though, Google is just lucky that Apple didn't release a 4.3" model of their phone [yet] or bring it to the other carriers... Fortunately, this has left Android a lot of room to compete. However, if Apple brings the iPhone to the other carriers next year and also drops a bigger screen on it, Google may not be able to continue increasing its smartphone market presence nearly as quickly (if at all).

I believe that Android needs something to really set itself apart, and until this all locking-down started, it had that "something": its openness. Unfortunately, unless Google can find a way to crack the whip, the phone manufacturers and the carriers are going to keep trying to make Android more and more like iOS (closed), instead of maintaining the competitive advantages that they have (openness).

I apologize for getting off topic, but the whole eFuse debacle really frightens me: I can live with a phone that's locked down for now, but this type of thing just may contribute to Apple striking down Android in the long run. Now THAT is something I can't deal with!

How could you say the iphone is more hackable? as far as I know I've never seen a custom rom for an apple phone before. Yes you can jailbreak it which is the same as rooting on Android. You can root the x fine and it has even been reported that root has already been obtained, the problem is the encrypted bootloader which will only stop roms that's it.

 

[bladebarrier]

proof of eFuse in the X? i skimmed the linked thread and saw a lot of reaction and essentially zero solid evidence.

my mom 'knew' elvis, y'know...

Did your mom know Milestone? The person that posted his thoughts on how eFUSE might effect the X, probably does.

I'm not that familiar with Android phones, but the take I get is that the firmware/hardware, created by IBM, has the capability of releasing a self-protecting fail safe, which can not only shut down software side, but also shut down the bios/firmware itself. The only way to recover from a shutdown that is considered an attempt to breach, would be to have it recovered by someone who has that access.

While it may be speculation, in the sense that we don't have confirmation from Motorola or IBM yet, it's certainly not an unreasonable assumption by devs that have already attempted to look at what type of chipset is in the phone.

IBM produces the chip capable of this. IBM has used it before. Motorola has gone out of their way to state that in the future they would pursue more sophisticated protection schemes on their android devices, and has shown the intent to do so already.

We'll all know soon enough; but what is clear thus far, is that they don't seem to have any inkling of making things easier for the community.

 

[bladebarrier]

How could you say the iphone is more hackable? as far as I know I've never seen a custom rom for an apple phone before. Yes you can jailbreak it which is the same as rooting on Android. You can root the x fine and it has even been reported that root has already been obtained, the problem is the encrypted bootloader which will only stop roms that's it.

My understanding is that the only rooted x's were due to intentionally leaked exploits, that are already patched out.

Got a link to that info? There are links that I can google, that appear to be hoaxes, or based on the pre-released X. What you get on the 15th doesn't necessarily have that hole.

 

[CriticalMass]

Motorola is locking things down probably more for warranty issues. I'm betting that they suspect a lot of their warranty returns and exchanges came back due to rooting and custom roms. While I'm sure verizon is happy with that decision, this is a Motorola only choice I think. Which means pressure can be applied to get them to change their minds if the phone becomes popular enough and people hound them enough.

 

[kwest12]

Ok folks, I know that we don't know everything about the eFuse yet, but tbh we shouldn't even have to worry about this in the first place: it shouldn't be a question of IF we can gain root, but WHEN we will gain root.

If some of you want to tell me I'm way off base when I say that Android is headed towards the Apple path, that's your right. Regardless of who is correct, you cannot contest that some of the carriers and the manufacturers seem to be locking down Android as best they can. You'll also be hard pressed to contest the comments I made about OS maturity, app store, and accessories in my previous post. Therefore, it makes sense that you would agree that Android needs to set itself apart. Maintaining as much of an open system as possible does help: that means not impeding our ability to root phones or install custom ROMs: now that isn't all they'll need to beat Apple, but it's a damn good start.

Now if we do continue to see locked down phones (ones that may even brick themselves quite easily in response to hacking) a good number of hackers will give up: no one wants to spend $600+ on a paperweight, not even the most dedicated hacker. I don't think anyone will deny that if the hackers lose interest in Android, that hurts almost all of us in one way or another. Now please don't go and post something like "but I don't care about ROMs or rooting!"... hackers have a much larger impact than that and if you don't understand that, you probably need to do some more reading or some more thinking.


@bladebarrier - I share the understanding you described in your last two posts. Well said.

@soapinmouth - I just barely was able to restrain myself from posting one of those "let me google that for you" links with the phrase 'iphone running froyo'. I know saying iPhone here is taboo, but I am trying to be objective and realistic instead of succumbing to fanboyism.

 

[soapinmouth]

My understanding is that the only rooted x's were due to intentionally leaked exploits, that are already patched out.

Got a link to that info? There are links that I can google, that appear to be hoaxes, or based on the pre-released X. What you get on the 15th doesn't necessarily have that hole.

Has nothing to do with what I was trying to convey in my post.

 

[lilRikki]

Just a couple thoughts: So what if this is the future of smartphones? What happens if this is an ever-growing trend amongst all manufacturers? Will you never upgrade your phone?

C'mon, people. This will be beat, and even if it isn't (which I doubt), does that mean y'all will carry around old hardware? Pfft, riiiiiight.

Technology evolves, and we as gadget-freaks must evolve with it.

 

[kwest12]

Has nothing to do with what I was trying to convey in my post.

Not certain how you can say that. Let me try to explain a little bit. You said this:

You can root the x fine and it has even been reported that root has already been obtained, the problem is the encrypted bootloader which will only stop roms that's it.

and he responded

My understanding is that the only rooted x's were due to intentionally leaked exploits, that are already patched out.

I think he's saying the following: any DX that you heard about or saw with root was probably one that was sent to a tester or developer. Those DX's were running on early firmware/software with many exploitable holes: these holes are almost certainly all patched in by now. Also, I believe that sometimes devs are even given phones with SU access already unlocked, so that also may have been the case.

Therefore, I will mimic his question: do you have any links that inform your post about the DX being easy to root? I think we are a bit incredulous, based on the info we've already been discussing that indicate root will be relatively difficult to achieve on the DX.


@lilRikki - I wasn't suggesting that I won't be buying new technology. What I'm worried about is Android's future if it continues down this path. I don't want to have to consider Apple, but mark my words, if Android doesn't set itself apart, it will become second rate. The openness that was seen in the Droid will at least help Android maintain an edge, at least initially (we are still in the very beginning of this smartphone platform race, there is no doubt about that).

 

[soapinmouth]

Not certain how you can say that. Let me try to explain a little bit. You said this:



and he responded



I think he's saying the following: any DX that you heard about or saw with root was probably one that was sent to a tester or developer. Those DX's were running on early firmware/software with many exploitable holes: these holes are almost certainly all patched in by now. Also, I believe that sometimes devs are even given phones with SU access already unlocked, so that also may have been the case.

Therefore, I will mimic his question: do you have any links that inform your post about the DX being easy to root? I think we are a bit incredulous, based on the info we've already been discussing that indicate root will be relatively difficult to achieve on the DX.


@lilRikki - I wasn't suggesting that I won't be buying new technology. What I'm worried about is Android's future if it continues down this path. I don't want to have to consider Apple, but mark my words, if Android doesn't set itself apart, it will become second rate. The openness that was seen in the Droid will at least help Android maintain an edge, at least initially (we are still in the very beginning of this smartphone platform race, there is no doubt about that).

Wait what info that indicates it will be hard to root? I can't find any. I see plenty of info stating that the bootloader will be tough but none about gaining root access. That was the point of the post. Motorolla is locking the bootloader which is no worse then what apple does I repeat nobody uses custom roms on iphone. I was responding to his thoughts on motorolla compared to apple and nothing else.

 

[bladebarrier]

Wait what info that indicates it will be hard to root? I can't find any. I see plenty of info stating that the bootloader will be tough but none about gaining root access. That was the point of the post. Motorolla is locking the bootloader which is no worse then what apple does I repeat nobody uses custom roms on iphone. I was responding to his thoughts on motorolla compared to apple and nothing else.

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1. 
   
   
   
   admin
   July 13th, 2010 - 01:33
   
   yes, i think eFuse will impede rooting. p3droid and i have discussed this quite a bit. I feel as tho any edits/additions to /system may result in serious problems. (brick)
   
   
2. 
   
   EmberScar
   July 13th, 2010 - 02:19
   
   oh, this fu*king sucks, seriously, im so sad. moto, wth guys?
   
   
3. 
   
   bigyeah
   July 13th, 2010 - 16:37
   
   Steven, thanks for the information thus far. In your last comment you mentioned eFuse will impede rooting. Does this mean there is a chance that the phone will take some time for the community to be able to gain root access? What do you belive to be a worst case scenario time frame for root access (not custom rom capability) to be granted?
   
   
4. 
   
   
   
   admin
   July 13th, 2010 - 20:26
   
   worst case scenario is that the protections are so great that we have to break the bootloader before we can root. meaning

 

[kwest12]

Wait what info that indicates it will be hard to root? I can't find any. I see plenty of info stating that the bootloader will be tough but none about gaining root access. That was the point of the post. Motorolla is locking the bootloader which is no worse then what apple does I repeat nobody uses custom roms on iphone. I was responding to his thoughts on motorolla compared to apple and nothing else.

The point of this post is NOT to discuss the boot loader: it's to discuss the eFuse technology which seems like it made seriously interfere with hackers even gaining ROOT! (Please see bladebarrier's most recent post.)

The post I've quoted above seems to be the product of a lack of reading. If you intend to get this involved in a thread, you really owe it to yourself to make sure you read all the important links provided first (you will find links to what bladebarrier posted earlier in this thread).

 

[CRPercodani]

nothing can sway me from the DX after what I saw today.
Moto rep at a Verizon kiosk had a ROOTED dx with him that was overclocked to 2.2 ghz (and froyo 2.2). We started talking and he said that with all the hype behind this phone the bootloader doesn't stand a chance and xda is gonna break it wide open.

2 days!!

I'm guessing that was a joke or part of the sarcasm you describe in your signature?

 

[JrzDroid]

I'm guessing that was a joke or part of the sarcasm you describe in your signature?

zero sarcasm sir
Motorola Rep had the thing in his hand!!

its motorola vs. the Android Dev team. They'll figure something out. that eFuse crap is gonna get shredded. If it doesn't, I'm breaking into motorola and jacking all the files I can on the system and efuse.