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Old July 17th, 2012, 02:35 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Old July 17th, 2012, 02:48 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Snip>>> McAdam’s vision also includes a re-examination of device subsidies as customers increasingly depend on wireless devices. McAdam previously indicated the wireless device subsidy was designed to get customers to adopt and embrace new technologies, and as adoption rates have soared, the need to keep discounting technology that customers depend on diminishes.<<<<

I just bought a Razr Maxx for $169, I didn't want to pay the $299 Verizon charges and full retail of $799 (which I believe is inflated in my opinion). If I had to pay full retail then the price better be around the $200 mark or at $799 I will not be upgrading to the latest phone technology. I bet many people will think the same as me, if Verizon sets the price points to high nobody is going to buy their products.

A good example is the Android tablets cutting into the IPAD sales, now force, Apple is going to make a smaller screen version because consumer demand.

Verizon better be cautious, while it might be king of the hill right now, it will get knocked down some day. The king always does...

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Old July 17th, 2012, 02:58 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Ending phone subsidies is not the worst thing in the world. Retail prices for phone are extremely inflated, because very few people pay those prices (See medical prices for the extreme of this effect). Also ending subsidies will require a lot more pricing competition among carriers, because there also won't be contracts anymore. So in the end, the combination of reduced retail pricing and service pricing will be equal or greater than the device subsidy now, AND no more contract.
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Old July 17th, 2012, 04:09 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Snip>>> McAdam’s vision also includes a re-examination of device subsidies as customers increasingly depend on wireless devices. McAdam previously indicated the wireless device subsidy was designed to get customers to adopt and embrace new technologies, and as adoption rates have soared, the need to keep discounting technology that customers depend on diminishes.<<<<

I just bought a Razr Maxx for $169, I didn't want to pay the $299 Verizon charges and full retail of $799 (which I believe is inflated in my opinion). If I had to pay full retail then the price better be around the $200 mark or at $799 I will not be upgrading to the latest phone technology. I bet many people will think the same as me, if Verizon sets the price points to high nobody is going to buy their products.

A good example is the Android tablets cutting into the IPAD sales, now force, Apple is going to make a smaller screen version because consumer demand.

Verizon better be cautious, while it might be king of the hill right now, it will get knocked down some day. The king always does...

FB
I understand what you are saying but I got my MAXX directly from Motorola for $650 (same price VZW had it for w/o contract). Still not cheap but no where near $800. So yeah, $800 would be a bit inflated. lol
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Old July 17th, 2012, 05:11 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Europe has already been kicking around dropping subsidies and it's been successful.
U.S. carriers were/are watching closely and will follow.
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Old July 17th, 2012, 05:29 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Europe has already been kicking around dropping subsidies and it's been successful.
U.S. carriers were/are watching closely and will follow.
I believe the cost of plans in Europe are much cheaper than in the states.
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Old July 17th, 2012, 06:08 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Ending phone subsidies is not the worst thing in the world. Retail prices for phone are extremely inflated, because very few people pay those prices (See medical prices for the extreme of this effect). Also ending subsidies will require a lot more pricing competition among carriers, because there also won't be contracts anymore. So in the end, the combination of reduced retail pricing and service pricing will be equal or greater than the device subsidy now, AND no more contract.
It's not the norm in the world to buy carrier specific phones. Let the OEMs concentrate on making great hardware and keep the carriers focused on providing service and we'll see the cost of everything go down IMO. Just look what happened once old Ma Bell couldn't make you buy their phones on their service together anymore!
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Old July 17th, 2012, 07:33 PM   #8 (permalink)
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It's not the norm in the world to buy carrier specific phones. Let the OEMs concentrate on making great hardware and keep the carriers focused on providing service and we'll see the cost of everything go down IMO. Just look what happened once old Ma Bell couldn't make you buy their phones on their service together anymore!

The difference is that the rest of the world is basically all on the same system, unlike here in the US. Even the LTE systems won't be compatible. They built the system to have carrier specific phones, and that will make selling unsubsidized phones difficult here.
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Old July 18th, 2012, 06:41 AM   #9 (permalink)
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The difference is that the rest of the world is basically all on the same system, unlike here in the US. Even the LTE systems won't be compatible. They built the system to have carrier specific phones, and that will make selling unsubsidized phones difficult here.
That's currently the case. But if the carriers were forced to accept any phone you brought into their store, I'm sure both OEMs and carrier's would find ways to make the system work. It's just a matter of changing the market dynamics in favor of the consumers instead of making things carrier-centric.
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Old July 18th, 2012, 06:53 AM   #10 (permalink)
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But if the carriers were forced...
That's the problem there. Who's going to force them? The government?

What needs to happen is more Netflix/Qwikster type responses from the public. Unfortunately it seems like the telecos have enough of a customer base that they can make bad changes and enough people will just go along because they either don't care, know better or have no choice.
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Old July 18th, 2012, 08:44 AM   #11 (permalink)
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The difference is that the rest of the world is basically all on the same system, unlike here in the US. Even the LTE systems won't be compatible. They built the system to have carrier specific phones, and that will make selling unsubsidized phones difficult here.
Question, why won't the LTE systems be compatible? As far as I knew, once the carriers switched over to VoLTE, and sold off/scrapped the GSM and CDMA networks, any phone would work on any network... Is the reason you are saying that frequency based? Because manufacturers already accomodate that with the Quad and Pentaband phones...

Block C regulations require Verizon to allow any compatible LTE phone on their network, and allow any phone Verizon introduces on their network to be freely moved to another, compatible network.
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Old July 18th, 2012, 09:34 AM   #12 (permalink)
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That's the problem there. Who's going to force them? The government?

What needs to happen is more Netflix/Qwikster type responses from the public. Unfortunately it seems like the telecos have enough of a customer base that they can make bad changes and enough people will just go along because they either don't care, know better or have no choice.
And why shouldn’t the government force them? The airwaves that Verizon and all other cell providers use are part of the commons owned by the people. Verizon does not own them, they lease them. You and I do not have enough power to force them to do anything, whereas the government can. I would rather the government tell Verizon they can’t do something than Verizon running all over its customers. Sure Netflix took a hit, but that was 6 months ago, people forget.
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Old July 18th, 2012, 12:40 PM   #13 (permalink)
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And why shouldn’t the government force them?
I think they should just don't think will do anything really useful. And according to one expert:
"...the Obama Administration’s FCC and Justice Department is slowing down wireless investment, innovation, and the industry’s ability to earn profits"
- Verizon CEO Lowell McAdam
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Old July 18th, 2012, 07:49 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Question, why won't the LTE systems be compatible? As far as I knew, once the carriers switched over to VoLTE, and sold off/scrapped the GSM and CDMA networks, any phone would work on any network... Is the reason you are saying that frequency based? Because manufacturers already accomodate that with the Quad and Pentaband phones...

Block C regulations require Verizon to allow any compatible LTE phone on their network, and allow any phone Verizon introduces on their network to be freely moved to another, compatible network.
You have a point I forgot. I knew there were chips that could access almost all frequencies, but I forgot about the Block C regulations.
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Old July 19th, 2012, 06:25 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I think they should just don't think will do anything really useful. And according to one expert:
"...the Obama Administration’s FCC and Justice Department is slowing down wireless investment, innovation, and the industry’s ability to earn profits"
- Verizon CEO Lowell McAdam
FTFY

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You have a point I forgot. I knew there were chips that could access almost all frequencies, but I forgot about the Block C regulations.
But you can believe Verizon is lobbying the FCC hard to get those restrictions reduced/eliminated. Thankfully the FCC is wise to what Verizon is doing. Lets hope they stay strong and those block C regs hold up.
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Old July 19th, 2012, 01:07 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Question, why won't the LTE systems be compatible? As far as I knew, once the carriers switched over to VoLTE, and sold off/scrapped the GSM and CDMA networks, any phone would work on any network... Is the reason you are saying that frequency based? Because manufacturers already accomodate that with the Quad and Pentaband phones...

Block C regulations require Verizon to allow any compatible LTE phone on their network, and allow any phone Verizon introduces on their network to be freely moved to another, compatible network.
VZW and AT&T use different frequencies for their LTE systems. I guess the phone manufacturers could make phone that work on both systems...
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Old July 19th, 2012, 09:57 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Doesn't surprise me.... Big Red is always shunning us to make the bigger buck. Hmmm sounds like all corporations these days.
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Old July 20th, 2012, 05:31 AM   #18 (permalink)
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VZW and AT&T use different frequencies for their LTE systems. I guess the phone manufacturers could make phone that work on both systems...
They can now. It's just a matter of having that functionality enabled/ built in to the phones and then making sure carriers can't block that feature of phones sold. So, in theory we could have the European model when you buy your phone outright at full retail and then choose your carrier.
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