Liberals: At what point do you want Mexico to annex the USA?

[Fenga Papit]

It's safe to say that liberals overwhelmingly favor amnesty for illegal aliens, without even sealing and controlling our southern border with Mexico. The fact that amnesty was tried under Reagan only to fail when every congress since then has refused to seal the border just made the situation worse. Illegal aliens poured across our border in anticipation of getting in on "the next amnesty." Another amnesty will not work and will continue the same problem we have now.

California is already a majority mestizo state. One town in California is now going bankrupt because the mestizos gained enough numbers to take over the entire city political structure. They ordered their police force to no longer even request a driver's license in traffic stops since so many of their population is illegal. They made other rules and regulations to expressly help illegal aliens as well. Their police force deteriorated to thugs that had been fired from other LEO positions for serious crimes and infractions. The city was entirely corrupt. Now they are going bankrupt, after turning their once beautiful town into the same third world shithole they left below the U.S./Mexico border.

All over the U.S. the massive influx of illegal aliens has strained cities and states by providing all manner of welfare and social services to these illegal aliens. This costs the USA $113 Billion per year. (source)

So my question is, since liberals by far want to allow illegal aliens to enter the U.S. and stay here, paying no taxes (identity fraud for an SSN causes more headaches for the victim than the small amount of taxes an illegal alien "pays."), and you want to let these illegals to continue to flood the USA as these mestizos yell "Reconquista!" then at what point are you willing to just petition Mexico to just go ahead and annex the USA?

This is the way things are headed unless we seal and control our border, then deport the illegal aliens in a passive manner by enforcing laws that deny them any job and no welfare, with no birth certificates for anchor babies.

 

[chrisinsocalif]

Mexico illegal immigration laws are pretty harsh yet their president tried to scald the US? What a hypocrite. I am all for enforcing the law.

 

[Zenze]

I don't know if I'm a liberal but I'm all for the construciton of a giant fence with sentry guns on top of it. Also everyone here illegally should be deported. If they want to come live in the US they should have to follow the legal process to do so. I think that most people agree with this or something similar... but of course people surprise me all the time.

 

[ballisticn8]

I don't know if I'm a liberal but I'm all for the construciton of a giant fence with sentry guns on top of it. Also everyone here illegally should be deported. If they want to come live in the US they should have to follow the legal process to do so. I think that most people agree with this or something similar... but of course people surprise me all the time.

this is how you know youre not a lib... if you were the gate would have turnstiles on it and the only purpose of the gate would be to make it so everyone getting into the country could get their free house, car, and a card that says welcome to the US, take a free education for your children along with medical benefits, welfare to help you buy groceries, jobs that some actual citizens of this country here legally were already doing, and while you're at it dont worry about chipping in taxes to help fund anything just send all your money back across the border to mexico.

also, those sentry guns would be replaced by loudspeakers inviting come one come all please take over everything here because even if you do try to take over the country we dont believe in guns so we'll give you a stern talking to.

 

[Zenze]

this is how you know youre not a lib... if you were the gate would have turnstiles on it and the only purpose of the gate would be to make it so everyone getting into the country could get their free house, car, and a card that says welcome to the US, take a free education for your children along with medical benefits, welfare to help you buy groceries, jobs that some actual citizens of this country here legally were already doing, and while you're at it dont worry about chipping in taxes to help fund anything just send all your money back across the border to mexico.

also, those sentry guns would be replaced by loudspeakers inviting come one come all please take over everything here because even if you do try to take over the country we dont believe in guns so we'll give you a stern talking to.

Interesting, because I know a lot of people who would be called "liberals" who share my view on immigration. Why do so many people think that everyone has to be a radical?

 

[ballisticn8]

Interesting, because I know a lot of people who would be called "liberals" who share my view on immigration. Why do so many people think that everyone has to be a radical?

sorry, i was trying to post quickly, i left out the /sarcasm

wow, that totally threw my post into a completely different light...

i dont consider myself far right or far left but moderately in the middle as i agree with certain aspects from both views.

 

[Zenze]

sorry, i was trying to post quickly, i left out the /sarcasm

wow, that totally threw my post into a completely different light...

i dont consider myself far right or far left but moderately in the middle as i agree with certain aspects from both views.

Ah gotcha, much more reasonable now

 

[AndyLL]

It's safe to say that liberals overwhelmingly favor amnesty for illegal aliens,

It's funny that the conservatives keep complaining about the liberals wanting this but it was Reagan that did it and Bush/McCain who proposed it a second time.

...
without even sealing and controlling our southern border with Mexico.All over the U.S. the massive influx of illegal aliens has strained cities and states by providing all manner of welfare and social services to these illegal aliens. This costs the USA $113 Billion per year. (source)

700 miles of the fence is expected to cost over 50 Billion... and is brought down as fast as it goes up. The idea that 1700 miles of border could be fenced and patrolled is stupid.

And by the way... in the same article that claims it costs 113B/year also references the > 250B they add to the GDP.

So my question is, since liberals by far want to allow illegal aliens to enter the U.S. and stay here, paying no taxes (identity fraud for an SSN causes more headaches for the victim than the small amount of taxes an illegal alien "pays."),

Of course if you grant them amnesty then they start paying taxes and the fraud goes away doesn't it?

This is the way things are headed unless we seal and control our border, then deport the illegal aliens in a passive manner by enforcing laws that deny them any job and no welfare, with no birth certificates for anchor babies.

Why do you hate the constitution?

 

[Crude]

Of course if you grant them amnesty then they start paying taxes and the fraud goes away doesn't it?

What kind of logic is this...of course not. The next wave starts when the first ends. Then you deal with overpopulation, skyrocketing unemployment....

on the other it's also illogical to depot anchor babies. It's unconstitutional. IF we were on the ball with our exportation there would be a lot less babies and once the babies are 18 their parents get deported anyway...then it's up to the baby to decide it's fate. It's not mean...it's life. Why is it so hard to make people accountable for their actions?

 

[mcapozzi]

Without these darned "illegals", domestic produce would be double the cost. Many of the services we pay for (lodging, cleaning, and food) are provided by these people.

Mexicans are just like the European immigrants a 150 years ago, the vast majority of them just want to work and are willing to make far less than the minimum wage that they would be legally entitled to if they were citizens.

So we can either pay higher prices for good and services provided by completely legal labor, or we can continue to pay for their medical costs.

Illegal immigrants receiving welfare is a myth according to the American Immigration Lawyers Association.

Also according to the Center for Immigration Studies, the amount of services that illegal immigrants would be entitled to if they were citizens would cost much more than the income taxes they would pay if they achieved legal status.

-Mike

 

[Crude]

Without these darned "illegals", domestic produce would be double the cost. Many of the services we pay for (lodging, cleaning, and food) are provided by these people.

Mexicans are just like the European immigrants a 150 years ago, the vast majority of them just want to work and are willing to make far less than the minimum wage that they would be legally entitled to if they were citizens.

So we can either pay higher prices for good and services provided by completely legal labor, or we can continue to pay for their medical costs.

Illegal immigrants receiving welfare is a myth according to the American Immigration Lawyers Association.

Also according to the Center for Immigration Studies, the amount of services that illegal immigrants would be entitled to if they were citizens would cost much more than the income taxes they would pay if they achieved legal status.

-Mike

Those are some pretty biased sources and honesty what you say makes no sense. It's possible that wages would go up...how much do you get payed? What is the minimum you would take for your time? I have no problem paying for services...I on the other hand will not work below a certain wage. But even then I doubt consumer price would go up at a rate accelerated to inflation. In the end your arguments support criminal activity...what's your house number so I can come take a TV or two....cause I don't have one.

 

[mcapozzi]

Those are some pretty biased sources and honesty what you say makes no sense. It's possible that wages would go up...how much do you get payed? What is the minimum you would take for your time? I have no problem paying for services...I on the other hand will not work below a certain wage. But even then I doubt consumer price would go up at a rate accelerated to inflation. In the end your arguments support criminal activity...what's your house number so I can come take a TV or two....cause I don't have one.

I'm sure your sources are biased too. I get paid a lot, I also don't pick fruit for a living. If fruit pickers got paid minimum wage (which is the entitlement of being a citizen), their wages would triple. You really doubt that the prices of goods and services wouldn't skyrocket if employers who hire undocumented workers suddenly had to double their employees wages and pay the subsequent payroll taxes.

You are really naive to think that these practices haven't been going on for the past hundred years.

Do I think the situation is ideal? No, but I am a realist, I know how the world turns.

The European immigrants of 150 years ago did the same thing the Mexicans are doing now. Except back then there was no minimum wage, income tax, or social security, so there was no real entitlements to being a citizen (except to vote). That is why the U.S. could support open immigration.

Your racist attitudes towards Mexicans are exactly the same stereotypical bull$h!+ that every immigrant population has faced throughout history.

You can try to take my TV, I must warn you, as a legal citizen of the united States, I exercise my 2nd amendment rights.

Good luck with your racism,
Mike

 

[TheBeardedMann]

I'm sure your sources are biased too. I get paid a lot, I also don't pick fruit for a living. If fruit pickers got paid minimum wage (which is the entitlement of being a citizen), their wages would triple. You really doubt that the prices of goods and services wouldn't skyrocket if employers who hire undocumented workers suddenly had to double their employees wages and pay the subsequent payroll taxes.

You are really naive to think that these practices haven't been going on for the past hundred years.

Do I think the situation is ideal? No, but I am a realist, I know how the world turns.

The European immigrants of 150 years ago did the same thing the Mexicans are doing now. Except back then there was no minimum wage, income tax, or social security, so there was no real entitlements to being a citizen (except to vote). That is why the U.S. could support open immigration.

Your racist attitudes towards Mexicans are exactly the same stereotypical bull$h!+ that every immigrant population has faced throughout history.

You can try to take my TV, I must warn you, as a legal citizen of the united States, I exercise my 2nd amendment rights.

Good luck with your racism,
Mike

It's funny how mix up Mexicans with Illegal Immigrants. There is a difference. And your argument of 150 years ago is lame. Would you like to go back to the lifestyle of 150 years ago? I think not. And they came over to work. They didn't get benefits from the government like Illegal Immigrants do now. That is the big problem. And from what I have heard, Legal Immigrants hate illegal immigration (not illegal immigrants, don't jump on the hate bandwagon) more the US citizens hate illegal immigration.

 

[mcapozzi]

It's funny how mix up Mexicans with Illegal Immigrants. There is a difference. And your argument of 150 years ago is lame. Would you like to go back to the lifestyle of 150 years ago? I think not. And they came over to work. They didn't get benefits from the government like Illegal Immigrants do now. That is the big problem. And from what I have heard, Legal Immigrants hate illegal immigration (not illegal immigrants, don't jump on the hate bandwagon) more the US citizens hate illegal immigration.

No, I wouldn't want to go back to the way things were 150 years ago. The point I was making was that the hatred against immigrants has been going on since the beginning of American history. I don't support illegal immigration, the real problem is that it is currently more beneficial for both the employers and the illegal immigrant employees to keep the status quo. Making widespread generalizations about illegal immigrants doesn't do anything to actually solve the problem. Deportation is all well and good, except the cost of finding and rounding them all up would be astronomical. Then when employers are forced to use "legal" labor, the costs of their goods will skyrocket.

If the American citizens were willing to suffer the additional costs of thorough labor/wage enforcement, then maybe the United States wouldn't be such an attractive target for illegal immigration. Unfortunately, the people who are the most rabid anti-illegal immigration protesters are also the same people who want smaller government. You can't have it both ways.

-Mike

 

[TheBeardedMann]

No, I wouldn't want to go back to the way things were 150 years ago. The point I was making was that the hatred against immigrants has been going on since the beginning of American history. I don't support illegal immigration, the real problem is that it is currently more beneficial for both the employers and the illegal immigrant employees to keep the status quo. Making widespread generalizations about illegal immigrants doesn't do anything to actually solve the problem. Deportation is all well and good, except the cost of finding and rounding them all up would be astronomical. Then when employers are forced to use "legal" labor, the costs of their goods will skyrocket.

If the American citizens were willing to suffer the additional costs of thorough labor/wage enforcement, then maybe the United States wouldn't be such an attractive target for illegal immigration. Unfortunately, the people who are the most rabid anti-illegal immigration protesters are also the same people who want smaller government. You can't have it both ways.

-Mike

Smaller government doesn't mean smaller in every aspect. We want less government control...in some aspects. But in safety, we want more.
Language, Borders, Culture.
And it doesn't matter if the Americans citizens are willing to suffer, it's a matter of legality. Just like child labor laws.
Don't have time to get into this right now. Maybe later.

 

[Crude]

I'm sure your sources are biased too. I get paid a lot, I also don't pick fruit for a living. If fruit pickers got paid minimum wage (which is the entitlement of being a citizen), their wages would triple. You really doubt that the prices of goods and services wouldn't skyrocket if employers who hire undocumented workers suddenly had to double their employees wages and pay the subsequent payroll taxes.

You are really naive to think that these practices haven't been going on for the past hundred years.

Do I think the situation is ideal? No, but I am a realist, I know how the world turns.

The European immigrants of 150 years ago did the same thing the Mexicans are doing now. Except back then there was no minimum wage, income tax, or social security, so there was no real entitlements to being a citizen (except to vote). That is why the U.S. could support open immigration.

Your racist attitudes towards Mexicans are exactly the same stereotypical bull$h!+ that every immigrant population has faced throughout history.

You can try to take my TV, I must warn you, as a legal citizen of the united States, I exercise my 2nd amendment rights.

Good luck with your racism,
Mike

Careful, calling me naive and racist is costing you credibility points. You lost more points for the term "bulllshit". What cost you the most however was mistaking my analogy with the TV as a threat.

Btw I spend at least an hour at the range each week...

 

[momoceio]

Lol, man you guys are funny.

 

[Fenga Papit]

It's funny that the conservatives keep complaining about the liberals wanting this but it was Reagan that did it and Bush/McCain who proposed it a second time.

I mentioned Reagan, so don't go getting all full of yourself. Bush did not strongly push amnesty, neither did McCain. Oilbama is pushing it hard and has already proved with his OilbamaCare that he does not care what the American people want.

When I was younger, dumb, not to quick on the uptake....a liberal....I used to campaign strongly for an open border with Mexico. "Throw the border open!" was my belief. This was even after 9/11. Then , like a newborn kitten, my eyes opened and I came to realize how wrong I had been. Other people have done the same, but Oilbama will force his Marxist agenda if he can. Supporting Oilbama is un-American....do you support him?

700 miles of the fence is expected to cost over 50 Billion... and is brought down as fast as it goes up.

So? Doing nothing costs us more than twice that. And you are wrong about the fence coming down as fast as it goes up. We can always make the fence stronger over time, too.

The idea that 1700 miles of border could be fenced and patrolled is stupid.

So instead of an argument you hold your breath and stomp your feet. Great solution! And the border can easily be patrolled, contained, and controlled. All it takes is resolve.

And by the way... in the same article that claims it costs 113B/year also references the > 250B they add to the GDP.

The article says much more than that. You tried to cherry-pick part of it, but you don't understand economics. Illegals still cost us 113B dollars.

And it gets worse:

A group of illegal immigrants in South Carolina and North Carolina were able to bilk the federal government of about $13 million by filing false tax returns for refunds, but some have been caught and sentenced.

Illegal immigrants bilk government of $13 million; some sentenced Anderson Independent Mail

Of course if you grant them amnesty then they start paying taxes and the fraud goes away doesn't it?

Amnesty automatically makes an illegal alien a good, law-abiding, productive, tax-paying member of society? Holy crap, illegal aliens are magic!!!

Why do you hate the constitution?

Why do you hate America? The portion of the 14th amendment purported by libs to mean birthright citizenship for anyone has been raped by liberals to mean something that was never intended. We can change that and make it clearer, and we need to do that.

 

[Dr. Shady PhD]

I am Mexican, but my ancestors came over legally the right way.
We provide illegals services and they don't even pay taxes. We should gather all illegals not just Mexicn ones and ship 'em back where they came from, then build the wall 100 feet high 30 feet thick.

 

[Fenga Papit]

I am Mexican, but my ancestors came over legally the right way.

I assume you are a natural born or naturalized citizen then too? I think of you, and millions of people like you, as an American.

 

[Tangent]

Without these darned "illegals", domestic produce would be double the cost. Many of the services we pay for (lodging, cleaning, and food) are provided by these people.

...

Did you know that the average cost of the labor on a head of lettuce is about 5 cents? You could quadruple the pay for pickers and a head of lettuce would only go from $1.00 to $1.15. I think my wife would be willing to pay that higher price if it means that people like the illegal that was caught for DUI and deported twice before killing her mom when he drove drunk yet again wouldn't be here in the first place. Of course after the accident he finally did run back to Mexico and not return so he wouldn't have to face the punishment.

My mother-in-law (wife's dad remarried) has to keep an eagle eye on her credit reports, constantly file disputes to fix them, and file all kinds of extra paperwork with her taxes because an illegal in Texas is using her SSN. This has been going on for 10+ years, and even though she was even able to easily get their address, nobody is willing to do anything about it. The Social Security Administration flat out refuses to issue her a new SSN.

What drives me crazy is all the pro illegal immigration people keep saying how it's not practical to "round up all illegals and bus them back to their country". I honestly have never heard anybody seriously suggest that we should do that. All we need to do is enforce existing laws regarding employing only legal residents/citizens. When employers get the message that the cost savings from hiring illegals isn't worth the risk, the employment dries up. Without the under the table jobs there's no reason for illegals to stay here, let alone make the trek to get here in the first place.

"They do jobs Americans are unwilling to do" is also high on my list of idiotic or at least horribly misinformed statements. If this were true than why are there so often articles about how legal job-seekers are lining up around the block to fill vacancies at places that just got raided by ICE?

 

[Fenga Papit]

All we need to do is enforce existing laws regarding employing only legal residents/citizens. When employers get the message that the cost savings from hiring illegals isn't worth the risk, the employment dries up. Without the under the table jobs there's no reason for illegals to stay here, let alone make the trek to get here in the first place.

I agree with this approach 100% up to a point. We still need to secure the border and deport the millions of illegal aliens here that make a career out of living off the welfare state. Or pass laws to make any and all forms of welfare unavailable to illegal aliens. But I don't see that happening either until we clarify the 14th amendment to remove "birthright citizenship."

 

[Droppin Deuces]

As a conservative, I really like Reagan, however that was one of the things I did not like. (Not like I was able to truly understand politics when He was president, I was only 3 when he was elected) The thing was that he approved that law thinking that the other provisions would be put into place. As we all know, that has not been the case!

 

[vegeta2002]

A lot of you guys are idiots. How much do you have to hate Mexicans to bring it up on a droid forum? How many landscaping and construction jobs have been stolen from you, by Mexicans? If so, isn't your main problem that you're already poor? The whole point of being rich, is that everyone else has to be poor. If you cared about jobs, you'd be more worried about outsourcing. Every other job, that doesn't need you to be physically there will be outsourced out of this country: Accountants, gone. Pharmacists, replaced by computers. Etc.

That commercial where the doctor sees his patient over a net connection is your future. Your talking points are Republican talking points. Republicans are pro-business. Business is pro cheap labor. You let your disdain for poor people trap you in a circle of stupidity.

In the history of mankind no wall system has ever worked. Trojan wall, Wall of Jericho, Hadrians Wall, Great Wall of China, Berlin Wall, Israeli Palestinian Wall, military checkpoints in Iraq and Afghanistan... Are you dense? John McCain himself said it wouldn't work and in almost the same breath, said he was for it. Circle of stupidity. He's not stupid, but he knows you are. Can he count on your vote?

Here's the best part of your ideology: Modern Mexicans are the descendants of Native Americans and Spanish colonists. They have two birthrights older than yours to live in the border states. You stole their land twice and now you're mad about it? If their rights to the land don't count, what does that say about yours? It says, that one day, someone stronger than you will come and take "your" land from your children. I wish people like you perpetual war and atrocity. Sit on it, you troglodyte.

Help keep this forum clean of politics. Say thanks if you agree.

 

[IOWA]

sorry, i was trying to post quickly, i left out the /sarcasm

wow, that totally threw my post into a completely different light...

i dont consider myself far right or far left but moderately in the middle as i agree with certain aspects from both views.

Speaking of which, despite people seeing me as a conservative republican guy, I overwhelmingly agree with the new law that just passed congress and Obama is supposed to sign into law, preventing any more corporate bailouts. I'm really happy about this.