FPS Cap Question

[heavychevy]

So I couldn't resist and stopped by a Verizon store and spent about an hour playing with a Droid X along side my EVO. Of course I wanted to see if I'd really miss the perceived difference in speed due to the FPS cap.

What I ended up concluding is that I like the EVO scrolling between screens better. The X moves really fast, but it's completely mechanical, there is nothing smooth about it like the EVO.

I guess my point is that I prefer the scrolling where my eyes can follow what's leaving the screen and what's coming into it as opposed to just being there all of a sudden.

So the question is that if they do something about FPS will our screen be all mechanical and lose it's smoothness? Also, is it possible that HTC did this on purpose (slow the scrolling so your eyes can actually follow what's going on)? IMO all the obsession with "snappiness" is going to degrade the user experience. I'd rather have something smooth and engaging than just pretty much robotic.


Aside from that, the Droid X screen is very dull, even on full bright it's dull. The camcorder is pretty nice, but it felt cheap in my hands, more plasticky, especially the buttons. The blur or whatever is boring and the accessory widgets (wifi,gps,airplane mode) look HORRIBLE! The gallery app tray is very cool. I left even more happy with my EVO.

But it does benchmark really well.

 

[SebastianX]

So I couldn't resist and stopped by a Verizon store and spent about an hour playing with a Droid X along side my EVO. Of course I wanted to see if I'd really miss the perceived difference in speed due to the FPS cap.

What I ended up concluding is that I like the EVO scrolling between screens better. The X moves really fast, but it's completely mechanical, there is nothing smooth about it like the EVO.

I guess my point is that I prefer the scrolling where my eyes can follow what's leaving the screen and what's coming into it as opposed to just being there all of a sudden.

So the question is that if they do something about FPS will our screen be all mechanical and lose it's smoothness? Also, is it possible that HTC did this on purpose (slow the scrolling so your eyes can actually follow what's going on)? IMO all the obsession with "snappiness" is going to degrade the user experience. I'd rather have something smooth and engaging than just pretty much robotic.


Aside from that, the Droid X screen is very dull, even on full bright it's dull. The camcorder is pretty nice, but it felt cheap in my hands, more plasticky, especially the buttons. The blur or whatever is boring and the accessory widgets (wifi,gps,airplane mode) look HORRIBLE! The gallery app tray is very cool. I left even more happy with my EVO.

But it does benchmark really well.

Neither phone can even produce a proper black, both screens are absolute garbage. Stop in at a T-Mobile or AT&T store and check out any Galaxy S variant, bring a towel you'll be drooling on your way out. No pun intended but HTC and Droid screens look horrible, dark grey is not black.

 

[EarlyMon]

Oooooh. Fight! Fight!

We've never had an Epic vs. Evo fight before, or even one with the X!

j/k

The new X commercial is cool.

Calling the Evo screen garbage - that's +5 for bait!

 

[tmaxey1]

Neither phone can even produce a proper black, both screens are absolute garbage. Stop in at a T-Mobile or AT&T store and check out any Galaxy S variant, bring a towel you'll be drooling on your way out. No pun intended but HTC and Droid screens look horrible, dark grey is not black.

So any screen not super amoled is now "Garbage"?

I read the same thing in the big screen tv debates. Lcd's cant produce a proper black but plasma can. So the plasma tv screen is the tv that the tech nerds on the forums get chubby's over. Ohhh Pioneer Kuro Plasma's.
Well i bought the LCD. Why? Brightness. Plasma may have blacker blacks. But LCD is just brighter. For my eyes thats better.

Now i have seen the Galaxy S Tmobile is selling. Its a nice screen. But it didnt leave me floored. But maybe that is because the phone feels cheap and plasticy and the screen felt like my finger was going to get pushed through it. Is it nice? Sure. The Nexus One is Amoled. The HTC Incredible is amoled. They are all nice screens. But i didnt need my towels when seeing them.

But EVO is now garbage screen? Haha.

 

[CriticalCritic]

The quality of the AMOLED screen is the one thing that I miss about my Samsung Moment. The colors and depth of black are quite noticeable between the Evo and Moment... although the Moment was completely and totally useless in sunlight. However I have heard that the Super AMOLED solved that issue.

That said, I still wouldn't say that the Evo's screen quality is garbage by any stretch of the imagination. It's just not the absolute best thing available at the moment, and I'm ok with that considering all the other specs that are crammed into this baby

 

[Mixelplux]

The quality of the AMOLED screen is the one thing that I miss about my Samsung Moment. The colors and depth of black are quite noticeable between the Evo and Moment... although the Moment was completely and totally useless in sunlight. However I have heard that the Super AMOLED solved that issue.

That said, I still wouldn't say that the Evo's screen quality is garbage by any stretch of the imagination. It's just not the absolute best thing available at the moment, and I'm ok with that considering all the other specs that are crammed into this baby

Since when did Moment had Amoled?

 

[newone757]

Since when did Moment had Amoled?

since it came out

 

[heavychevy]

Wow, quickest thread hijack ever. Start a new thread about screens. Anyone care to attempt to answer the question?

 

[CriticalCritic]

Wow, quickest thread hijack ever. Start a new thread about screens. Anyone care to attempt to answer the question?

LOL! My fault
Well, I think I have read enough about this in the other one or two FPS cap threads to be able to answer this question. So allow me.

So the question is that if they do something about FPS will our screen be all mechanical and lose it's smoothness? Also, is it possible that HTC did this on purpose (slow the scrolling so your eyes can actually follow what's going on)?

Actually, removing the FPS cap should actually make the experience even smoother! The rigidity difference that you are seeing between the Evo and the DX relates directly to the software overlay on top of the Android OS. In otherwords, the difference between what HTC's Sense UI adds, and what DX adds (or does not add) to the graphic experience.

Sense UI adds a more smooth/fluid scrolling/transitioning experience. Some people do not like this extra graphics addition because it bogs down your phone (though that's hardly noticeable in a phone that's as fast as the Evo), and instead that prefer the robotic SNAP of the original Android graphics (this is what you are seeing the DX do). It's completely up to your personal preference. However, this is not really a point of difference between the DX and Evo because the Evo you can remove the Sense stuff to make it snap. And the Droid can have more fluid scrolling/transitioning but utilizing 3rd party replacement apps like Launcher Pro.

Now, to address exactly what the FPS cap does. FPS = Frames Per Second. Someone had put up a very comprehensive explanation in another thread (I'd give credit but I can't find it). Imagine using a flip book to show an animation. If it took you 5 seconds to flip through the book and you were using 25 pages, it would be a pretty rough animation right? Now what if instead of 25 pages, you used 100. Now the animation would have 4x smoother graphics.

In the case of the Evo vs the DX, this really comes into play graphically when trying to follow a picture with your eyes while scrolling. For an exaggerated example, I want you to open your gallery app. Then choose whatever folder has the most pictures. Once it is open, hold your phone in landscape and begin to side-scroll as fast as you can. What you will see is a pretty rough scroll with the perceivable break lines appearing to just flash across the screen about every 1/2 inch. If the FPS cap were lifted those breaks would appear at less than half that spacing, and would appear to be a smoother scroll through those photos.

I understand that this example may make little difference in many opinions, but it's an exaggerated example of what happens on a much smaller scale. The practical difference in FPS is when 1-playing a video game that depends heavily on graphics, or 2-when scrolling through text while reading or skimming and trying to still make out the words clearly during the scroll.

So no, HTC did not set the FPS cap to make it easier on the eyes. They apparently set it so the HDMI port would work correctly.


And again, sorry for hijacking the thread earlier

 

[RiverOfIce]

Wow, this will not die. FPS will not effect scrolling. If you dont want to believe me, I am good with that. I have not seen one review calling the evo sluggish, or slow. Every review has about how fast the interface was. Everyone of them. But what do we have here, with droid x? Sluggish, but that does not have a cap? That is not possible. Motorola Droid X Phone Review - PCWorld If you honestly think the cap can produce choppy playback, you have not played gears of war or halo, or any video game for a console. Alot of them are capped at 30fps. And there is no difference between how gears of war displays an image and how your phone does.

 

[njbianco]

The quality of the AMOLED screen is the one thing that I miss about my Samsung Moment. The colors and depth of black are quite noticeable between the Evo and Moment... although the Moment was completely and totally useless in sunlight. However I have heard that the Super AMOLED solved that issue.

That said, I still wouldn't say that the Evo's screen quality is garbage by any stretch of the imagination. It's just not the absolute best thing available at the moment, and I'm ok with that considering all the other specs that are crammed into this baby

I agree with you i really do miss the Amoled of the Moment(about all i miss)

 

[hawkijustin]

Im rooted with fps unlocked and ill be honest.... You wont notice at all.

 

[Bat~man]

Im rooted with fps unlocked and ill be honest.... You wont notice at all.

I have to b honest.

I'm also rooted running a custom kernal that unlocks fps, granted its only getting me 42-45 fps most the time...but I can't tell a difference anywhere.

So yea, the only place you'll notice is when you run apps that test FPS.

 

[MrX8503]

Wow, this will not die. FPS will not effect scrolling. If you dont want to believe me, I am good with that. I have not seen one review calling the evo sluggish, or slow. Every review has about how fast the interface was. Everyone of them. But what do we have here, with droid x? Sluggish, but that does not have a cap? That is not possible. Motorola Droid X Phone Review - PCWorld If you honestly think the cap can produce choppy playback, you have not played gears of war or halo, or any video game for a console. Alot of them are capped at 30fps. And there is no difference between how gears of war displays an image and how your phone does.

You're doing a good job of misinforming users about the 30 fps cap. This video says other wise.


If you'd like I also have more videos of a "before and after" 30 fps cap fix if this isn't proof enough.

 

[DarkNeo]

Im rooted with fps unlocked and ill be honest.... You wont notice at all.

BS, scrolling through the app drawer is smooth as silk aswell as menus. Everything is super smooth

 

[Vincent Law]

You're doing a good job of misinforming users about the 30 fps cap. This video says other wise.

If you'd like I also have more videos of a "before and after" 30 fps cap fix if this isn't proof enough.

Different launchers, different apps used, different screen resolutions, different GPU, how is this fair?

 

[sagedil]

Just ignore him. ALL he does is whine about this one issue, has been doing it for many weeks now.

Funny thing is it is all so bad, but he won't leave this forum. Wonder why.

 

[RickJ]

n/m (my original post)

http://www.boallen.com/fps-compare.html

berardi posted this back in june, I'm sure many of you have already seen it.

If you can see it, great. If you can't well, carry on. If you can see it, then you will understand how the higher fps will be of benefit in reading scrolling text.

 

[MrX8503]

Different launchers, different apps used, different screen resolutions, different GPU, how is this fair?

Uh...the Hero has inferior hardware to the EVO, but its transitions are smoother. What does this tell you? Go test it on an Incredible yourself.

n/m (my original post)

http://www.boallen.com/fps-compare.html

berardi posted this back in june, I'm sure many of you have already seen it.

If you can see it, great. If you can't well, carry on. If you can see it, then you will understand how the higher fps will be of benefit in reading scrolling text.

That's a great test. Another thing I wanted to bring up is that a lot of people are confusing the terms "fast" and "smooth". I keep hearing people say "I'm not experiencing lag problems, my EVO is really fast".

The problem is that fast and smooth aren't one in the same. If you look back at that square animation, which square finishes first? None, they all finish the same time, but the last one is the "smoothest". I think this is where people get confused and are oblivious to the lag problems because they don't know what to look for. That or they are probably not as sensitive to FPS.

Just ignore him. ALL he does is whine about this one issue, has been doing it for many weeks now.

Funny thing is it is all so bad, but he won't leave this forum. Wonder why.

Whine? Wow, just wow. Thats almost as bad as the iPhone fans telling people that they're whining over the antenna issue.

The EVO has a 30fps problem, deal with it, but don't try to put off as if the problem doesn't exist. If you aren't bothered by the problem, then thats a different story.

Here is more proof of the 30fps issue. It can only be fixed by a root.


P.S.

I used to own an EVO, which is why I started out at this forum first. As far as I know you don't have to actually own the phone to be here. Thanks.

I like the open discussion and the EVO is my favorite Android phone so far and the iPhone4 is my favorite iOS phone. I like to keep updated on both platforms and I find it amusing that people plain out lie about the phones when people are asking for advice in choosing a phone.

When people ask me about the antenna issue, I tell them yes it has a problem. When people ask me about the EVO 30fps, I tell them yes it has a problem. Don't confuse constructive criticism with me hating on your "precious" EVO.

 

[RickJ]

I will add in, however, that the text scrolling doesn't even come close to being as good as the 30fps would seem to show on that link. IMO its possibly in the same neighborhood (or less) as the 15fps. Try viewing that page on your phone, look at the 15 and 30 (60 doesnt pass the frame check), then scroll the text and you can see what I mean.

Someone in a past thread mentioned that it is not an fps issue, but a java issue handling issue. That, or some other OS factor may well be the case and fps could just be a scapegoat. No matter, for me it's a nuisance at worst. I would like it to operate smoother, ip4 smooth, but its not a game changer and still love the device as it is.

The comparison of video games 30fps vs how the evo renders its screens is just too easy of a fallback argument. If anyone can point out where the Evo post processes it's graphics in any manner the way film and games do, I'd happily change my viewpoint. Compare your GOW, Halo and whatever 30 fps to NFS back in 95 at 30fps and tell me its the same thing, lol.

 

[RiverOfIce]

You're doing a good job of misinforming users about the 30 fps cap. This video says other wise.

I really do not care, but they are not telling the truth, if you wonder over to the developer forums, they say they fixed the 30fps issue, but also added a fix to the touch controller. Now if you increase the touch controller sensitivity, you will increase the responsive of the screen.

The touch controller has nothing to do with 30fps, but how quickly the phone reads and displays your touch. So that is the lie they are hiding between two truths, if apply just the fps patch and do not edit the touch sensitivity setting you would see very little difference.

They want to make it a huge issue because it is hard to develop for a capped screen, that is the only reason that it is a issue.

Of course that is how the best lies are told, hidden between two truths. Because if you believe that the evo cap is bad and you believe that the lower display rate causes choppy play back, then it is easy to add the lag caused by a low setting on the touch controller to the mix. Which then raises your hackles because it is something that you can do care about.

For those that have rooted their phone, do a search on adjusting the touch sensitivity controller. It is a hex value, but I do not remember where.

I really do not care if you believe me, but do a search.

30fps is fast enough for most touch screen playback.

 

[MrX8503]

I really do not care, but they are not telling the truth, if you wonder over to the developer forums, they say they fixed the 30fps issue, but also added a fix to the touch controller. Now if you increase the touch controller sensitivity, you will increase the responsive of the screen.

The touch controller has nothing to do with 30fps, but how quickly the phone reads and displays your touch. So that is the lie they are hiding between two truths, if apply just the fps patch and do not edit the touch sensitivity setting you would see very little difference.

They want to make it a huge issue because it is hard to develop for a capped screen, that is the only reason that it is a issue.

Of course that is how the best lies are told, hidden between two truths. Because if you believe that the evo cap is bad and you believe that the lower display rate causes choppy play back, then it is easy to add the lag caused by a low setting on the touch controller to the mix. Which then raises your hackles because it is something that you can do care about.

For those that have rooted their phone, do a search on adjusting the touch sensitivity controller. It is a hex value, but I do not remember where.

I really do not care if you believe me, but do a search.

30fps is fast enough for most touch screen playback.

I don't question that the touch responsiveness may be a different issue, but the fact remains is that only the Evo is exhibiting unresponsive touch coupled with a 30fps cap. No other android device has this problem. Fortunately there is a fix from XDA, I just find it unbelievable that people think it doesn't exist. If that were the case XDA wouldn't even waste their time on this.

 

[Alto101]

I am running the stock ROM with the latest and greatest kernel to defeat the evil 30 fps cap. Scrolling is much more fluid now and I can notice the difference in everyday use.

To those who have the modified kernel and cannot tell the difference over stock, my guess is that you have grown use to the better performance. My wife also has an EVO and I have left hers stock. Using her phone now I feel like it is slow and jerky,

I have had two reboot cycles that can only be fixed with a battery pull since I have installed the FPS fix. I am willing to live with this but I am hopeful later revisions of the fix will make these go away.

 

[novox77]

I'm running a stock rooted ROM with netarchy-toastmod kernel, which has the touch sensitivity fix as well as the FPS fix. Two very distinct issues, and both contributed to the overall "lagginess" of the EVO. When I first got my phone, I let my iphone friends and family play with it, and they all agreed that it was laggy. I played with their iphones and I agreed the Evo was slow.

However, I was able to notice that there were two issues at play. The responsiveness of the Evo was lacking as well as the smoothness of animation. The responsiveness is basically how well the screen "sticks" to your finger as you scroll it. The iPhone really sticks close to your hand, whereas the EVO is "slipping on ice" trying to keep up. As for FPS, side-scrolling through the homescreens, scrolling vertically on webpages, menus, etc was very choppy.

The new kernels fix both issues. My Evo is now comparable in responsiveness and smoothness to the iPhone. It sucks that it had this potential and didn't come like this out of the box.

For those of you who don't notice the HUGE improvement, you either didn't flash a kernel with the fixes in place (you can test with dotty and FPS2D), or your perception of frame rate is below average, which is entirely possible. I'm not trying to slam anyone, but some people are color blind, and they just can't see the colors. I suspect some people can't perceive improvements in framerates past 30fps.

 

[RiverOfIce]

I don't question that the touch responsiveness may be a different issue, but the fact remains is that only the Evo is exhibiting unresponsive touch coupled with a 30fps cap. No other android device has this problem.

If you walk into a doctors office coughing up blood and a broken arm and the doctor said, you need a cast for the arm? With your logic, he would be correct? Because if you have a broken arm, it must be causing you to cough up blood?

Almost every android phone on the market coughs up blood, ie screen sensitivity. Driod, desire, behold 2, ally. But heck you can do a search.

Now the developers created a patch the fixes both the coughing up blood and the broken arm, but everyone here still thinks it is only the broken arm that is the problem.

I wish to take back the comment I made earlier, that is not the truth, they did not lie to you. They fixed the problem of screen not being super responsive and overclocked the phone. The question comes come to my mind, does the hdmi port work?

I am trying to just be honest. The 30fps should not be noticeable on a 4 inch screen from your average viewing distance. A lot of video games for the ps3 and xbox are capped at 30fps, there is no difference between how they display a 30fps game and how your phone displays it. None. If it is a non issue for ps3 and xbox it is a non issue for the htc evo.

But to make it an issue, because it is hard to program for, they add this touch sensor increase, which makes the phone more responsive and try to sell it has a whole unit.

Now the problem with the unit is that the screen responsiveness has to figure how if you are just touching or scrolling. Increasing that value will make the phone a lot more likely to click instead of scroll. Which means you will have to deal with a lot of apps turning on, instead of you scrolling.

Iphone got around this by having the area of the icons click-able, very small. So you have to hit them directly or it will not work.

It is the truth.