Help Milestone for UK? Where are you?

[modelportfolio2003]

Come on Motorola, strike a deal with one of the networks here to launch the Milestone/Droid soon, or release it SIM free with someone like expansys.

And we would love to see you take on the iPhone with those great iDon't commercials launched in US with Verizon.

Why all the secrecy Motorola??

Comment?

 

[abdulla]

Expansys UK did offer it for pre-order at some point, but they removed it temporarily. Price was 450 GBP which I feel is a lot. I'm just waiting until they get it in stock to order one

 

[celios]

Expansys UK did offer it for pre-order at some point, but they removed it temporarily. Price was 450 GBP which I feel is a lot. I'm just waiting until they get it in stock to order one

Superetrader still have it up for pre-order:

Motorola Milestone (Android, Black) Sim Free Unlocked - - Mobile Phones - Superetrader - Sim Free Unlocked Mobile Phones & Accessories Store

 

[w00yee]

is supertrader reliable? how do they have a milestone that is using the standard keyboard layout? if i buy it from supertrader in the US, do i have to pay customs? how much will that be if i have to? thank you!

 

[abdulla]

I've never used superetrader, though a friend of mine used clove.co.uk.

Both sites report that the expected release date is the 7th of december. clove has it priced @ 350 pounds w/out VAT.

 

[celios]

clove.co.uk seem to have taken their pre-order page down... maybe they realised they made a mistake with the price.

But expansys have put their pre-order page back up!

Looks like the 7th Dec is the date for the UK release. It's supposed to be officially announced on the 1st Dec, but it's now showing up on the Motorola UK web site so it looks like it definitely on the way!

 

[Amdroid]

Ive been waiting for this phone for so long. I'm really tempted by the HTC HD2 as I'm currently using a basic phone following the death of my Nokia. If its going to be released in December then I can wait a few more weeks. I'm hoping it doesn't get delayed.

 

[modelportfolio2003]

clove.co.uk seem to have taken their pre-order page down... maybe they realised they made a mistake with the price.

But expansys have put their pre-order page back up!

Looks like the 7th Dec is the date for the UK release. It's supposed to be officially announced on the 1st Dec, but it's now showing up on the Motorola UK web site so it looks like it definitely on the way!

@Clove

Still hearing T Mobile for a contract if you elect not to go SIM free. What do you think about T Mobile for this device? Is network worse than others or on a par?

 

[celios]

@Clove

Still hearing T Mobile for a contract if you elect not to go SIM free. What do you think about T Mobile for this device? Is network worse than others or on a par?

I'm very happy with Vodafone - although that could be because they are the only ones who can supply me with 3.5G in the small town where I live.

T-mobile should be OK, maybe see if any G1 users who frequent the forum can shed more light on their performance.

 

[Amdroid]

The Motorola website is linking to expansys to order right now, but I think I'm going to wait and see who carries the phone in December. If its only T-Mobile then I'm going to get the HD2, Ive been with T-Mobile before and do not wish to go there again.

 

[modelportfolio2003]

The Motorola website is linking to expansys to order right now, but I think I'm going to wait and see who carries the phone in December. If its only T-Mobile then I'm going to get the HD2, Ive been with T-Mobile before and do not wish to go there again.

That is probably sensible but too bad. I have been reading the specs for the Milestone and the User Manual from the Motorola UK site and it is awesome. Android is very powerful, esp compared to WinMo 6.5 on HD2....Microsoft knows this is sub-standard, according to the reviews I have read and will not be coming out with WinMo 7 until sometime next year.

Is T Mob that bad a network or just in your area? Are you in Central London or more remote?

 

[Amdroid]

That is probably sensible but too bad. I have been reading the specs for the Milestone and the User Manual from the Motorola UK site and it is awesome. Android is very powerful, esp compared to WinMo 6.5 on HD2....Microsoft knows this is sub-standard, according to the reviews I have read and will not be coming out with WinMo 7 until sometime next year.

Is T Mob that bad a network or just in your area? Are you in Central London or more remote?

I'm in London but I travel a lot. Ive been in quite a few locations in UK over the past few years where I have been unable to get any signal at all and have had to switch to a pay as you go Sim from Orange or Vodaphone. Worst place was when I was in Devon on a conference.

 

[Carl C]

Motorola Milestone Pre-Orders Start At Expansys | Android Phone Fans

 

[deadite66]

ordered mine

 

[Carl C]

ordered mine

Care to let me permanently borrow

 

[modelportfolio2003]

I'm in London but I travel a lot. Ive been in quite a few locations in UK over the past few years where I have been unable to get any signal at all and have had to switch to a pay as you go Sim from Orange or Vodaphone. Worst place was when I was in Devon on a conference.

By the way, I am really surprised that Motorola is keeping such a low profile so far on the Milestone.....offering it only via the expansys website. With the fantastic reception the same phone (Droid) got in the US last month, and that fact that we are really a global community now, you would think that one of the carriers would take a page from Verizon's book and launch the big PR: The iDon't commercials were a big hit and taking over Times Square last Friday (Black Friday) for big screen search via Google phones was great PR. Is Motorola asleep here or just plain clueless to know it has a big winner on its hands in UK if it gets the word out other than thru the viral community of bloggers? Also Carphone Warehouse's problems with SonyEricsson's Satio leaves a hole that should be filled by Milestone. Any opinions on why so low a Motorola UK profile so far. I remember in October, Verizon hyped the launch well in advance of the actual release date generating lots of excitement, also for the HTC Eris release.

Comments?

 

[celios]

By the way, I am really surprised that Motorola is keeping such a low profile so far on the Milestone.....offering it only via the expansys website. With the fantastic reception the same phone (Droid) got in the US last month, and that fact that we are really a global community now, you would think that one of the carriers would take a page from Verizon's book and launch the big PR: The iDon't commercials were a big hit and taking over Times Square last Friday (Black Friday) for big screen search via Google phones was great PR. Is Motorola asleep here or just plain clueless to know it has a big winner on its hands in UK if it gets the word out other than thru the viral community of bloggers? Also Carphone Warehouse's problems with SonyEricsson's Satio leaves a hole that should be filled by Milestone. Any opinions on why so low a Motorola UK profile so far. I remember in October, Verizon hyped the launch well in advance of the actual release date generating lots of excitement, also for the HTC Eris release.

Comments?

I think Motorola are suffering for two reasons:

1) They have been unlucky enough to launch the Milestone just after many of the UK networks have paid money for / made plans around getting the iPhone. O2 lost their iPhone exclusive in the UK in November and both Orange and Vodafone have been keen to launch it as they see this as a potential 'churn' preventer.

2) Motorola's profile in the UK (and elsewhere in Europe) has been very low - they haven't really had a hit since the original RAZR, and because of this they don't have much traction in the UK market.

I do think that a UK network or two will pick up the Milestone in the new year. I really think it's a great proposition and have had my pre-order in with expansys since early November. I have been looking to move to Android, and although the Hero is a great phone the lack of a QWERTY keyboard was always a deal-breaker for me. The form factor and feature combination of the Milestone / Droid + a QWERTY keyboard is perfect for me, although I think the keyboardless Droid / Milestone rumoured to be coming early 2010 is the phone that might be more suitable for many users and this could also be the reason the UK networks are shy about picking up the Milestone.

 

[modelportfolio2003]

I think Motorola are suffering for two reasons:

1) They have been unlucky enough to launch the Milestone just after many of the UK networks have paid money for / made plans around getting the iPhone. O2 lost their iPhone exclusive in the UK in November and both Orange and Vodafone have been keen to launch it as they see this as a potential 'churn' preventer.

2) Motorola's profile in the UK (and elsewhere in Europe) has been very low - they haven't really had a hit since the original RAZR, and because of this they don't have much traction in the UK market.

I do think that a UK network or two will pick up the Milestone in the new year. I really think it's a great proposition and have had my pre-order in with expansys since early November. I have been looking to move to Android, and although the Hero is a great phone the lack of a QWERTY keyboard was always a deal-breaker for me. The form factor and feature combination of the Milestone / Droid + a QWERTY keyboard is perfect for me, although I think the keyboardless Droid / Milestone rumoured to be coming early 2010 is the phone that might be more suitable for many users and this could also be the reason the UK networks are shy about picking up the Milestone.

@celios. I agree with your analysis of Motorola but the company has been real smart under new CEO and has basically announced they will be getting behind Android big time. They took their time to re-organize the mobile division and dropped their own software initiative in favor of Android, with a 250 strong team devoted to exploiting Android. So I say: a new Moto has arrived and more to come.

I think you make a really good point about the iPhone but in order to crack the iPhone mystique in UK, a stronger commercial/PR presentation along the line of Verizons attack on the iPhone was needed. But because O2, Vodafone and Orange seem to have gotten into bed with Apple to get the iPhone, I guess these guys could not turn around and attack the iPhone with the iDon't commercials type approach. T-Mob clearly does not have the same problem and needs an iPhone killer at this time. Hence likelihood of their picking up the Milestone. But Vodafone has seen good results from the HTC Magic Android and Orange has seen good results from the HTC Hero so to bend over for Apple and not pick up Milestone (by the way, I think the slider is a great feature and I will be real happy with Android 2.0 for some time, esp with OTA updates) is short-sighted.

Which network in UK, apart from T Mob do you expect to pick up Milestone....you mentioned possibly two?

Are you also saying that you are happy to go with expansys SIM free deal, even though it seems more expensive than a contract deal, because of flexibility of network (ie, not interested in T Mob)? If you can get the 18 mo contract with T Mob for

 

[celios]

@celios. I agree with your analysis of Motorola but the company has been real smart under new CEO and has basically announced they will be getting behind Android big time. They took their time to re-organize the mobile division and dropped their own software initiative in favor of Android, with a 250 strong team devoted to exploiting Android. So I say: a new Moto has arrived and more to come.

I think you make a really good point about the iPhone but in order to crack the iPhone mystique in UK, a stronger commercial/PR presentation along the line of Verizons attack on the iPhone was needed. But because O2, Vodafone and Orange seem to have gotten into bed with Apple to get the iPhone, I guess these guys could not turn around and attack the iPhone with the iDon't commercials type approach. T-Mob clearly does not have the same problem and needs an iPhone killer at this time. Hence likelihood of their picking up the Milestone. But Vodafone has seen good results from the HTC Magic Android and Orange has seen good results from the HTC Hero so to bend over for Apple and not pick up Milestone (by the way, I think the slider is a great feature and I will be real happy with Android 2.0 for some time, esp with OTA updates) is short-sighted.

Which network in UK, apart from T Mob do you expect to pick up Milestone....you mentioned possibly two?

Are you also saying that you are happy to go with expansys SIM free deal, even though it seems more expensive than a contract deal, because of flexibility of network (ie, not interested in T Mob)? If you can get the 18 mo contract with T Mob for

 

[modelportfolio2003]

I totally agree about Motorola being a rejuvenated company under the new CEO. Both the DEXT and the Milestone look like great handsets. I think the idea of taking a proven OS and combining it with Motos hardware know-how is genius and is what they needed to do a long time ago. I find it ironic that Nokia seem like they are about to make the same mistake (with Maemo) rather than taking Android and focusing on hardware + customisation.

I don't have any inside info about which networks might be taking the Milestone, but the whole UK release seems a bit odd to me. I would not have expected it to end up being sold via expansys as the 'official' Motorola supplier, and expansys had it up for pre-order in November well in advance - like they do for many products - then took it down, then put it back up again last week. All seems a little bizzare. Almost like Motorola were negotiating behind the scenes with a UK network for release in December and then the deal went sour.

I'm a Vodafone man at the moment, and am happy with the network performance so I won't change networks just for the Milestone if I can get it SIM free. I'm on a 1 month rolling SIM only contact

 

[modelportfolio2003]

@celios
Really helpful reply and I will take your advice and wait a bit for either price on Expansys to come down or for a network or two to pick it up.

Your comment about Nokia and Maemo really interesting. They must have thought long and hard about Android because there was a rumor that they were going to bring out an Android device some months ago. Pride I suggest. Hard to face not being number one in smartphone profitability,etc. Guess they figure they can take the Apple integrated approach but clearly they are having to play catch up.

Should be a great year ahead for Android and your SIM free/Ebay approach looks likely to give you great flexibility.

Good luck (or should I say Goog luck)!

@celios

By the way, talking about Nokia, hearing that for their Capital Markets day in Finland on Wednesday, they will talk about Maemo/Linux among other things. Hearing somewhat surprisingly that they plan to launch only one device in next 12 months using Maemo/Linux rather than a bunch of devices to address competition from Google/Android. I wonder why, if that turns out to be true? If they hope to improve their margins, more Maemo devices would seem probable. Are they at risk of being the "next Motorola"....in dropping out of sight for a year or two??

 

[celios]

@celios

By the way, talking about Nokia, hearing that for their Capital Markets day in Finland on Wednesday, they will talk about Maemo/Linux among other things. Hearing somewhat surprisingly that they plan to launch only one device in next 12 months using Maemo/Linux rather than a bunch of devices to address competition from Google/Android. I wonder why, if that turns out to be true? If they hope to improve their margins, more Maemo devices would seem probable. Are they at risk of being the "next Motorola"....in dropping out of sight for a year or two??

I don't know if they will ever drop out of sight because they still sell a lot of feature phones and low specced smartphones, but I wouldn't want to put money on them doing anything except losing market share at the top end of the smartphone market. Apart from a slew of new Android handsets, there is also the rumoured iPhone 4, and no doubt a few other surprises in store in 2010!

I really don't know where they are going with Maemo. They would have been much better off developing a better UI for Symbian (which is essentially a very solid and performant OS designed for mobile phones) about 12 months ago and ditching Series 60, which was ok until touch screens came along.

The N900 has a number of notable shortcomings that make it less phone and more tablet... no MMS, no apps in portrait mode (at launch) except the dialler, no ability to do simultaneous voice and data and hardly any apps. Plus it's like a brick and has worse battery life than the Milestone. I've just got rid of an N97 and the build quality was average at best. The big N is going to need to increase it's advertising budget because word of mouth isn't going to do them any favours if my experience is anything to go by!

 

[modelportfolio2003]

I don't know if they will ever drop out of sight because they still sell a lot of feature phones and low specced smartphones, but I wouldn't want to put money on them doing anything except losing market share at the top end of the smartphone market. Apart from a slew of new Android handsets, there is also the rumoured iPhone 4, and no doubt a few other surprises in store in 2010!

I really don't know where they are going with Maemo. They would have been much better off developing a better UI for Symbian (which is essentially a very solid and performant OS designed for mobile phones) about 12 months ago and ditching Series 60, which was ok until touch screens came along.

The N900 has a number of notable shortcomings that make it less phone and more tablet... no MMS, no apps in portrait mode (at launch) except the dialler, no ability to do simultaneous voice and data and hardly any apps. Plus it's like a brick and has worse battery life than the Milestone. I've just got rid of an N97 and the build quality was average at best. The big N is going to need to increase it's advertising budget because word of mouth isn't going to do them any favours if my experience is anything to go by!

@celios
Yes, the big N is in a catch22 situation: if they up the advert spend and don't succeed in getting the word out that they are once again a leader, then they will lose even more confidence. They really need to give more clarity/road map on their software strategy and how its execution on UI development can succeed while reducing hardware "time to market". They have lost leadership to Apple and seemingly Research in Motion and Google at the high end smartphone level and need to figure out how to get it back while boosting margins. Launching a compelling new product is the answer, but unlikely before mid 2010 at earliest. Here the investment in marketing and advert is needed, but if they just go the cost cut route, look out below. Sad to see a once dominant company lose its way, but hey, that's competition.

 

[modelportfolio2003]

I don't know if they will ever drop out of sight because they still sell a lot of feature phones and low specced smartphones, but I wouldn't want to put money on them doing anything except losing market share at the top end of the smartphone market. Apart from a slew of new Android handsets, there is also the rumoured iPhone 4, and no doubt a few other surprises in store in 2010!

I really don't know where they are going with Maemo. They would have been much better off developing a better UI for Symbian (which is essentially a very solid and performant OS designed for mobile phones) about 12 months ago and ditching Series 60, which was ok until touch screens came along.

The N900 has a number of notable shortcomings that make it less phone and more tablet... no MMS, no apps in portrait mode (at launch) except the dialler, no ability to do simultaneous voice and data and hardly any apps. Plus it's like a brick and has worse battery life than the Milestone. I've just got rid of an N97 and the build quality was average at best. The big N is going to need to increase it's advertising budget because word of mouth isn't going to do them any favours if my experience is anything to go by!

@celios

Some quotable comments today from Nokia's Capital Markets day presentation were somewhat disappointing:
1. Symbian would remain the key software platform for its smartphones,
2. made significant improvements to the next version of the Symbian user interface,
3. a higher proportion of its smartphones--the one area of the handset market that has continued to grow during the recession--will have touch screens or full QWERTY keyboards compared with previously,
4. would focus on stabilizing the average selling price of its handsets to increase revenue.,
5. to differentiate its products from rivals, Nokia has increasingly focused on applications such as navigation, its Comes With Music phones, and the Ovi online portal,
6. noted competition from Apple and Android and the Bada platform to be released next week by Samsung, and RIMM.
7. said it would use Maemo for high-end "mobile computers," Symbian for cheaper smartphones, and the S40 interface for the low-end of the market.
8. introducing more systems, such as Android, would hurt the benefit of scale.

So it seems that they are planning 2 notable device releases for Symbian and one notable device release for Maemo 6 in 2010, with emphasis on software and services. They are chosing not to release using the Android OS, which had been a rumour some months ago. They expect R & D to be 10% of sales which seems low for what they are trying to do. I guess with their expectations of 300 million Nokia users and 39% of market by 2010, it would have been too humbling to reorganize around Android like Motorola has done.

Comments?

 

[celios]

@celios

Some quotable comments today from Nokia's Capital Markets day presentation were somewhat disappointing:
1. Symbian would remain the key software platform for its smartphones,
2. made significant improvements to the next version of the Symbian user interface,
3. a higher proportion of its smartphones--the one area of the handset market that has continued to grow during the recession--will have touch screens or full QWERTY keyboards compared with previously,
4. would focus on stabilizing the average selling price of its handsets to increase revenue.,
5. to differentiate its products from rivals, Nokia has increasingly focused on applications such as navigation, its Comes With Music phones, and the Ovi online portal,
6. noted competition from Apple and Android and the Bada platform to be released next week by Samsung, and RIMM.
7. said it would use Maemo for high-end "mobile computers," Symbian for cheaper smartphones, and the S40 interface for the low-end of the market.
8. introducing more systems, such as Android, would hurt the benefit of scale.

So it seems that they are planning 2 notable device releases for Symbian and one notable device release for Maemo 6 in 2010, with emphasis on software and services. They are chosing not to release using the Android OS, which had been a rumour some months ago. They expect R & D to be 10% of sales which seems low for what they are trying to do. I guess with their expectations of 300 million Nokia users and 39% of market by 2010, it would have been too humbling to reorganize around Android like Motorola has done.

Comments?

They are going to struggle to compete with Android.

Nokia are trying to create world class services (like Maps, Email, Calendering and Contacts) from scratch with Ovi.

In Google, Android already has a full suite of free services that are market leaders in many areas and have years of experience running huge data centres required for 24/7 99.999% availability.

Nokia have a stable and well understood platform in Symbian, that currently has a poor touch screen user interface and is hard to develop for (although they are attempting to address that with Qt). The problem they have is that the UI needs radical changes - they almost need to scrap what they have and start again from scratch... any radical changes however will render their back catalogue of apps incompatible.

Android has a stable and well understood platform, that has an up to date touch UI and is easy to develop for using standard tools like Java/Eclipse.

Android is being used by the world's leading handset makers, with the exception of Nokia and Apple. There are now multiple handset releases each month, with different form factors, levels of specification and price points.

Symbian is being used by Nokia with a few token handsets from Samsung and Sony Ericsson. There are new handset releases every few months with different forms factors, levels of specification and price points.