Update: 2.1 OS upgrade for Rogers HTC Magic+

[RogersMary]

Hi Everyone. I have some news to share with you regard the Magic OS upgrade and where we're at.

As always, thanks for your continued patience in waiting for the Rogers HTC Magic+ 2.1 OS to be rolled out. When the 2.1 OS was delivered to us for testing we hoped it would be available to customers by end of August. It was extremely important to us that this OS be thoroughly tested/reviewed. In doing so we found an issue that required it to go back to HTC for further development.

I'm happy to report that we reached a milestone yesterday and the 2.1 OS for Magic+ was approved by Rogers. It has now gone to Google for approval and assuming there are no further issues HTC will start rolling it out. While I can let you know once it begins, I can't comment on how long that will take as the precise date for rollout is determined by HTC.

I am also happy to report that this will be the first Over the Air (OTA) upgrade for one of our Android devices. OTA upgrades will not result in loss of data, and all downloads will be $0-rated, at no cost to customers. However, in order for OTA to be available, you must have downloaded the 1.5 with Sense UI. If not, you can upgrade to 2.1 directly by visiting one of our Rogers locations, details to follow when available.

Once rollout begins, we will also provide support documentation, including an outline of what has changed with this new OS upgrade (And before you ask, yes Voice Dialler has been added back ).

We very much appreciate everyone's understanding while we diligently work on getting this OS upgrade to you. As we've done in the past, I will post updates and answer questions here as best as I can.

Thanks!
Mary

 

[bunhead]

I am going to wait until I see a few reviews on this before I apply it.

@RogersMary, did rogers preinstall a bunch of rogers applications that can't be removed? or can we delete the rogers apps (that have never worked before so I have no reason to believe that they will work now)

 

[RogersMary]

I am going to wait until I see a few reviews on this before I apply it.

@RogersMary, did rogers preinstall a bunch of rogers applications that can't be removed? or can we delete the rogers apps (that have never worked before so I have no reason to believe that they will work now)

I should have more information on that once the OS is available. I'm keeping a list of questions ;-)

 

[Deleted User]

Will individuals who have rooted their phones loose the root capability with this update?

 

[fregor]

This sounds good and all Mary, but you're referring to the HTC Magic+..? If we own an older device (not the new one you call Magic+) we're still eligible for this update right?

 

[mjschmidt]

This sounds good and all Mary, but you're referring to the HTC Magic+..? If we own an older device (not the new one you call Magic+) we're still eligible for this update right?

Yes, this is for everyone. Remember, Mary works in PR, and calling it the Magic+ is probably corporate PR policy, regardless of when you bought it. ;-)

If you did not update your old Magic with the 1.5 911 bug fix, you will need to do so before getting the 2.1 OTA update.

 

[fregor]

Thanks for clearing that up mjschmidt.

 

[RogersMary]

Yup, thanks Michael

Just FYI all - If you have a question, post it here and I'll try to get an answer in time for roll out. But, I'll spare you the constant "I'll look into that" replies.

 

[mjschmidt]

BTW: For anyone who never updated to the Rogers 1.5 E911 bug fix (like me) you will need to have it before you can get the OTA update. It can still be downloaded here: https://your.rogers.com/web_auth/techsupport.asp?brand=28&model=MAGICBLKR&type=Product

And there are lots of threads in this sub-forum with the pros and cons for doing it.

Just remember, the E911 Bug Fix breaks root, and Mary has not yet confirmed if the new 2,1 update will also break root, but really, this is HTC we're talking about. I would be surprised if it didn't break root again, so, consider yourself warned.

It is possible to root your Magic (Magic+) if you have the E911 bug fix applied (GreatBigDog has a walk through on his blog) but it has to be done a very special way to make sure you don't lose data.

Many people have already rooted and updated to 2.1. Some people have already updated to 2.2, and given what we have gone through just to get 2.1, you might want to just root and go straight to 2.2 (which is apparently not yet perfect).

Personally, I might sell my Magic and buy the BELL Samsung Galaxy Vibrant, which can be unlocked very easily (because the unlock codes are ON THE PHONE!) and use that on Rogers until my contract expires. Personally I like it better than what I've seen of the Captivate Rogers is supposed to be getting (when is that coming again?), and it has a forward-facing camera.

Hey, Mary, are we getting 2.2?

 

[surfer09]

Is there any idea as to how long the process may take to get Google's approval and for HTC to start the roll out? Are we talking days, weeks, another month?

 

[iagox86]

When can I expect this upgrade to work on my HTC Dream?

(Haha, just kidding, I know I got screwed on this one. Still counting down the days till my contract ends and I can change to another telco! )

 

[RogersMary]

Hey, Mary, are we getting 2.2?

HTC indicated that there will be no further OS upgrades beyond 2.1 for the Magic device. Any questions about that should be directed to HTC as I wouldn't be able to answer on their behalf.

 

[RogersMary]

Is there any idea as to how long the process may take to get Google's approval and for HTC to start the roll out? Are we talking days, weeks, another month?

I really don't know that answer to that. But, as soon as I have anything to share from HTC, I will let you know.

 

[Gazorninplat]

It'll be interesting to see if this will have a new radio version with it too.

Question to add to @RogersMary's list: this update isn't considered mandatory like the 911 update right? Will Rogers be again trying to screen out phones without this update and require some kind of waiver to stay on the network without it?

@bunhead: I'm sure there'll be the usual carrier apps installed to the system folder and not easily uninstalled. That's just part of the branding. Just root it to uninstall, or wait for the updated CursorSense ROM.

@mjschmidt: I bet it'll break root. What update from what carrier for what phone other than ADPs haven't? And I'm sure it'll also come with a perfected SPL to make rooting a pain. They've had over a year to patch any root exploits.

 

[Deleted User]

HTC indicated that there will be no further OS upgrades beyond 2.1 for the Magic device. Any questions about that should be directed to HTC as I wouldn't be able to answer on their behalf.

For this reason I will no longer be giving my hard earned money to Rogers and any Android device they carry. The lack of understanding on software update still persists as none of the devices carried by Rogers either are planned or known to have Android 2.2! It's like having this whole "IWantMyOnePointSix" all over again, only this time it will be "IWantMyFroyo".

Further to the comment by MJSchmidt, the Galaxy Vibrant from Bell does look a lot more promising then any device offered by Rogers at present time.

 

[mor10]

Thanks for the update, Mary. I'm pretty sure you have nothing to do with the actual decision to withold information from paying customers so I'm going to ask you to pass this message up the chain of command in your company:

Not properly informing your customers about the status of this upgrade has resulted in Rogers losing trust, loyalty and customers. Simple status reports, milestones or anything else to give the impression that work is being done and progress is being made would have curbed about 90% of the criticism Rogers has received over this issue and would have prevented countless people from jumping ship and moving to other carriers. Whomever made the decision to keep a lid on all information about this upgrade is responsible for a substantial loss in income, both presently and in the future, for Rogers.

This situation has painted Rogers as a company that does not care about it's customers and has no interest in being transparent about its activities. As a result a lot of customers have lost all trust in Rogers and are now just waiting for their contracts to run out so they can move to a different carrier. It's reprehensible in its idiocy because the whole situation could have been prevented by simply having a policy of openness and transparancy from the start.

For example you mention that a problem was found that needed to be dealt with by HTC. This should have been communicated to the customers - not necessarily in such a manner, but in some way - to prevent speculation about further hold ups or a potential cancellation of the upgrade all together.

This whole story is a textbook example of communications mismanagement. Rogers not only lost control of the message by flat out ignoring customer complaints and refusing to provide even basic information about what was going on, but actually damaged the reputation of the company by not providing adequate and informative answers to public questions and letting speculations and rumours take over.

Again, this is not criticism of you, Mary, but of whomever makes decisions on what information is to be provided to the customers.

Rogers needs to rething its communications policy.

Mor10
*This* close to jumping ship

 

[drifter136]

I think we're being a tad hard on Rogers over all this. It's been stated over and over, the updates come from HTC. HTC people. HTC. Not Rogers. HTC.

I think our frustration with updates for our phones which, from a hardware standpoint, are pretty badly out of date by current standards, needs to be directed at the source of the updates, not the middleman. Yeah yeah yeah, cyanogenmod got his out blah blah blah blah. He's not having to answer to customers paying hard earned money and who get pissed when their phone doesn't work flawlessly. People using his software understand the risks and understand the potential for problems, and are generally people who will accept this potential in exchange for the higher functionality. Joe Blow who walks in to buy a new cellphone and can't tell Android from Blackberry, iPhone, or a 5 year old RAZR just wants it to work without having to call tech support constantly. Yes, it's ignorant, but it's the vast majority.

6-8 weeks for a company to test a phone update to ensure it's fully functional on their network seems reasonable. How many years has GranTurismo 5 been in testing and breached release dates? Let's face it, the entire Android platform is still a baby, in any other industry it would still be considered experimental. HTC, and subsequently Rogers, need to ensure that the majority of its customers (and potential customers) have a smooth experience out of the box.

 

[Deleted User]

I think we're being a tad hard on Rogers over all this. It's been stated over and over, the updates come from HTC. HTC people. HTC. Not Rogers. HTC.

I think our frustration with updates for our phones which, from a hardware standpoint, are pretty badly out of date by current standards, needs to be directed at the source of the updates, not the middleman.

It is partly to blame on Rogers Product Management who have a part to play in selecting the type of devices which they want to carry and from which manufacturer.

Let this be a lesson for the Product Management (though I still don't think they understand) to be more realistic when they decide to carry devices which are obsolete by the time they come out.

 

[drifter136]

It is partly to blame on Rogers Product Management who have a part to play in selecting the type of devices which they want to carry and from which manufacturer.

Let this be a lesson for the Product Management (though I still don't think they understand) to be more realistic when they decide to carry devices which are obsolete by the time they come out.

Aside from the Nexus One, what phone hasn't been out of date when it came out? You're also talking about a Canadian company with 1/10th the population base to serve of the big US providers, they can't afford to take a shotgun approach and offer every phone, they're going to decide on the phone that gives the best experience out of the box.

Also don't forget, the phone may have been out of date when you bought it, but may not have been when it was introduced. Big difference, and a case in which the mistake is that of the purchaser not doing their homework. Android itself iterates at a pace far more rapid than anything else in the software industry, and its infancy, for user experience reasons for the lay person has till now required stuff like HTC Sense, Motoblur, etc to make it an easier transition from other platforms.

In other words, the blame list works like this:

1. Google, for iterating Android faster than manufacturers can keep up with.
2. Manufacturers, for not being quick enough updating their proprietary portions of the software for new versions of Android.
3. The average cellphone user, that needs things all easy and pretty and requiring number 2 in the first place.
4. Rogers, for wanting to add a couple simple apps/links to their website so you can track your usage on the fly (something I actually like, so sue me).

Of the actual development delays, Rogers' portion of it all seems to be the quickest one, at least from my point of view.

 

[mjschmidt]

I think we're being a tad hard on Rogers over all this. It's been stated over and over, the updates come from HTC. HTC people. HTC. Not Rogers. HTC.

Hmm... I've seen a similar sentiment expressed in the comments of my blog, are you, perhaps, the same person? Either way, I'll reply here with what I've said there, and elsewhere.

1. HTC has told us officially and repeatedly that they do not create Android OS updates unless the carrier requests it. Let me say that again, and more plainly... HTC told us officially that Rogers would have to request an update before HTC would make it. So, yeah, we have to put the pressure on Rogers because otherwise we won't get anything. Rogers had NO CLUE what Android was when they first got it, they didn't even know 1.6 existed until we asked for it! (No, I'm not making it up. If you want, I'll dig up the thread with all the proof).

2. We have no clout with HTC. None. HTC does not care one bit what the end users think, because WE don't buy the phones from them, ROGERS does. Rogers on the other hand, as the direct (and bulk buying) customer of HTC, does have some clout. Let me assure you that when Puleen, Don and I met with management (in person) from Rogers, it was intimated that high-level management at Rogers were in direct talks with their counterparts at HTC to get this done.

So, sorry, but you're wrong. It may be HTC that actually pumps out the hardware and software, but we have to deal with ROGERS, not HTC.

 

[thor124]

Thanks for the update Mary. When this update was first announced I was excited. With time that excitement has faded, and at this point in time I have no intent of installing this update. The last update forced upon my phone made it near unusable.

On a side note, I wish to express concern that there is still the possibility of 911 calls not completing on E911 updated HTC Dreams.

I have observed my fianc

 

[mjschmidt]

Also don't forget, the phone may have been out of date when you bought it, but may not have been when it was introduced. Big difference, and a case in which the mistake is that of the purchaser not doing their homework.

It pisses me off when I see this. Yeah, you're pissing me off now. (Do you work for Rogers?)

People DID do their homework.

When the Dream and Magic debuted at Rogers, people like us looked online and understood that Android would be like a PC OS that would be updated, and that phones could, and would, be updated. So it was expected this would happen.

Now, before you stupidly accuse us of assuming something, many of us ASKED customer reps in Rogers stores, demos, and via customer service if the Magic and Dream would be updated to 1.6, and we were specifically told IT WOULD BE!

So if a company lies to you, and tells you it will get something, you buy it believing it will get it.

There were many examples of people being thusly mislead. I tested it TWICE in the run up to Xmas 2009 by going in to a Rogers store and a Best Buy both selling the Magic and asking if it would be updated to 1.6. In both cases i was told it would be.

I even sent the information about those stores to RogersMary so she could investigate why people were being lied too.

You need to get your facts straight.

 

[drifter136]

Hmm... I've seen a similar sentiment expressed in the comments of my blog, are you, perhaps, the same person? Either way, I'll reply here with what I've said there, and elsewhere.

1. HTC has told us officially and repeatedly that they do not create Android OS updates unless the carrier requests it. Let me say that again, and more plainly... HTC told us officially that Rogers would have to request an update before HTC would make it. So, yeah, we have to put the pressure on Rogers because otherwise we won't get anything. Rogers had NO CLUE what Android was when they first got it, they didn't even know 1.6 existed until we asked for it! (No, I'm not making it up. If you want, I'll dig up the thread with all the proof).

2. We have no clout with HTC. None. HTC does not care one bit what the end users think, because WE don't buy the phones from them, ROGERS does. Rogers on the other hand, as the direct (and bulk buying) customer of HTC, does have some clout. Let me assure you that when Puleen, Don and I met with management (in person) from Rogers, it was intimated that high-level management at Rogers were in direct talks with their counterparts at HTC to get this done.

So, sorry, but you're wrong. It may be HTC that actually pumps out the hardware and software, but we have to deal with ROGERS, not HTC.

This doesn't jive with RogersMary claiming HTC has said no further updates for the Magic. If it was as simple as Rogers asking for an update from HTC, why wouldn't HTC supply a paying customer? So it seems the truth may in fact lie somewhere in between, or that your little meeting with the Rogers people may not have been as enlightening as you may have thought, because I keep seeing just this kind of conflicting information. If I am wrong, then it's just Rogers' way of saying "we're not selling enough of these phones anymore to financially justify an update", and frankly I'd prefer that statement from Rogers over a hot-potato blame game.

Furthermore, if it is Rogers that needs to beg for updates from HTC, a major US company, with 10x the customer base to go after, has a much more realistic basis for which to hire the required software people to crank out their own updates. Rogers' market is very small by comparison, and may not (or it might, who knows) have those resources to bring their very own software group to a platform that in Canada is still in its infancy. We simply haven't had the hype up here that so many major US releases have had that have brought Android to where it is in the US, and I'd say this would be the number one hesitation of Canadian carriers. Nobody's stepped up yet, brought out a killer phone, hyped it for months and said, "This is Android, it's the future, and we're all in!"

And no, I'm not the guy from your blog.

 

[drifter136]

When the Dream and Magic debuted at Rogers, people like us looked online and understood that Android would be like a PC OS that would be updated, and that phones could, and would, be updated. So it was expected this would happen.

Goes back to fast iteration on a young OS. I remember installing Windows 95 on an old 386 computer. It ran, but lots of stuff didn't work or didn't work well. But up until a couple years ago I was still pretty happily running WinXP on an old Celeron 500Mhz machine.

While this isn't a total parallel and it's been shown that 2.2 runs nicely on the Magic, the Android platform has grown like crazy, new features, new possibilities and capabilities. And going forward, installing it on older equipment is more and more going to require throttling back of features. At what point does Google say, "These are the minimum specs for this new version. If you want to continue getting official updates, this is what you'll need."

 

[mjschmidt]

This doesn't jive with RogersMary claiming HTC has said no further updates for the Magic.

Yes, and I agree. But you're assuming we have no plans to contest this, since it was only officially announced today.

When we asked for 1.6, HTC told us Rogers had to ask for it. So we did, and they did.

Now we are being told that HTC says there will be no more updates. Obviously our next step is to contact HTC (which I will be doing) to ask them, officially, if there will be an update to 2.2, and if not, why not.

We know 2.2 works on the Magic, because the T-Mo MyTouch3G is getting it. That leads to the question: if it can be done, why won't it be done.

If I had to guess, I'd day it's because both HTC and Rogers want us to buy new phones, so it is in their better financial interest to say no to us.

Even though it might get us no where, at the very least we can post the truth (as much of it as we can get) so that subsequent consumers can take that in to consideration when making their buy decision.

It doesn't change the fact that we had to go to Rogers to get anything in the first place. Rogers pushed HTC for the update, and Rogers offered Dream owners a free Magic (with extension of contract, and they got to keep the Dream). I doubt very much HTC would have done the same if we'd asked them.