Might as well get an iPhone

[ZDroid1]

The newest Verizon Android, the Samsung Fascinate, seems to be advancing a bad trend. On top of the irremovable, unstoppable bloatware we have all come to expect from AT&T (and now Verizon), the Fascinate will feature Bing widgets, Bing maps, and Bing search. The Market app on the Fascinate

 

[groan]

Wow, that sucks HUGE.
I wonder if there is some sort of action people can take (short of not buying them) to get this changed. Of course rooting is the way, but not everyone wants to do this.
Some carriers are just too stupid to realize what they are doing to their reputation.

 

[ZDroid1]

Some carriers are just too stupid to realize what they are doing to their reputation.

They're not stupid. They just know most people don't know the difference, and don't care.

 

[AndroidSPCS]

Yes what Verizon is doing is reverting back to their dumbphone days, when they locked down the RAZR so you couldn't upload your own ringtones to the phone - you had to buy them through VZW only.

Verizon has always been anti-consumer with their phones, and now that they have a foothold on Android, they're doing the same thing with the Android devices.

Very very sad. Hopefully people will realize that this is a sham and spend their money elsewhere - ie Sprint, T-mobile...

 

[Loki117]

It's a difficult one as a Geek user I want ultimate flexibility but as someone said before the average user doesn't know nor care about these limitations.

 

[Loki117]

It's a difficult one as a Geek user I want ultimate flexibility but as someone said before the average user doesn't know nor care about these limitations.

I should also have said this is of course kinda skewed by the fact that there is a large proportion of Power users on Android.

 

[jree]

Not to take pleasure in other people misfortunes but I am so glad that I left Verizon for Tmobile when I did. Tmo's cust service is the greatest of all carriers, and I have had all carriers for more than a couple of years each.

 

[grainysand]

Lalalala unlocked phones.

 

[AndroidSPCS]

Not to take pleasure in other people misfortunes but I am so glad that I left Verizon for Tmobile when I did. Tmo's cust service is the greatest of all carriers, and I have had all carriers for more than a couple of years each.

I'm glad I have Sprint and T-mobile.

It's good to have under-dog businesses trying to vie for your business.

Verizon has got a lot of people hypnotized with their "superior network" marketing, and feel like they're now powerful enough to do what they want despite consumer wants and needs.

VZW and AT&T are the most expensive carriers, and of course enough people are dumb enough to pay for their over-priced services because of "iPhone" or "network" features...you have to blame the consumers who don't know that they're overpaying for limited features and handing money over without blinking.

I'll stay with Sprint and T-mobile unless they too one day get too powerful and start with this anti-consumer nonesense. Then I'll have to move to another underdog carrier.

Thank goodness for competition.

 

[w_bovine]

The newest Verizon Android, the Samsung Fascinate, seems to be advancing a bad trend. On top of the irremovable, unstoppable bloatware we have all come to expect from AT&T (and now Verizon), the Fascinate will feature Bing widgets, Bing maps, and Bing search. The Market app on the Fascinate

 

[AndroidSPCS]

This is one reason why there are so many custom ROM's for Android. There are many who agree with what you say and have the knowledge and skills to do something about it.

If you decide to root your phone, you'll be able to remove the bloatware using, for instance, Titanium Backup.

Android is an open source OS, leaving the carriers to mod it to their liking, or rather their profitability. I do agree that it's pretty pathetic of Verizon to block Google apps and widgets.

Keep in mind that when all is said and done, the carriers aren't there to make you happy...they're there to make money for the business and its shareholders.

VZW is potentially going down a bad road - encrypting boot loaders to prevent people from loading custom ROMs, and locking out Android apps with the OEM ROM.

I see them potentially testing / tweaking this process until it will be impossible to root an Android phone and loading another custom ROM onto their Android phones.

The signs so far from VZW have not been encouraging. Their department of "locking down VZW phones so consumers can't do crap with them" is working over-time, and succeeding with every little step they take.

This could be just the tip of the spear from VZW. Unless people speak up now, and speak loudly, VZW may keep on with its actions to lock down their Android phones to prevent consumers from having options / choices.

VZW needs to make money, but it can't be at the expense of its customers who lose. It has to be a win-win situation, where both VZW and the customers both benefit. If customers lose, then in the long run VZW will lose.

 

[w_bovine]

VZW is potentially going down a bad road - encrypting boot loaders to prevent people from loading custom ROMs, and locking out Android apps with the OEM ROM.

I see them potentially testing / tweaking this process until it will be impossible to root an Android phone and loading another custom ROM onto their Android phones.

The signs so far from VZW have not been encouraging. Their department of "locking down VZW phones so consumers can't do crap with them" is working over-time, and succeeding with every little step they take.

This could be just the tip of the spear from VZW. Unless people speak up now, and speak loudly, VZW may keep on with its actions to lock down their Android phones to prevent consumers from having options / choices.

VZW needs to make money, but it can't be at the expense of its customers who lose. It has to be a win-win situation, where both VZW and the customers both benefit. If customers lose, then in the long run VZW will lose.

Your points are valid, but nothing has stopped them yet. Apparently there are enough sheep out there that they don't see the need, at least yet, to change. I actually ended up leaving Verizon because I became so tired of them locking out the GPS on my BlackBerry to 3rd party apps. Sure, their network is arguably the best, but as you know, there are tradeoffs.

 

[AndroidSPCS]

True, but people have tasted freedom with the Droid. It seems that more and more people are waking up to the crap that VZW is pulling. Hopefully there will be enough people to send a message to VZW that this is not acceptable.

We can only watch, and help spread the message. In the end people vote with their wallets, and that is the only vote that matters.

 

[Rota]

I will most likely be moving to Sprint or T-Mobile when my contract is up. Cheaper prices. Less bullshit.

 

[AndroidSPCS]

I will most likely be moving to Sprint or T-Mobile when my contract is up. Cheaper prices. Less bullshit.

LOL that should be Sprint's new marketing slogan... would be brilliant if they did that...

Hopefully this is one of many millions of votes in the wallet to tell VZW what they are doing is not acceptable.

 

[ZDroid1]

I can understand why a respectable company would preload their phone with whatever bloatware they want to convince the customer to use it (that part is fair game), BUT they would give the customer the choice to stop and remove said bloatware. I only complain about the fact that they don't make it optional.

Bloatware has three levels, for instance with my carrier (AT&T):

1- They preload my phone with bloatware. OK, they're trying to convince me to use their stuff. Fair game.

2- They prevent me from uninstalling their bloatware. OK, NOT cool. But I'll hide or ignore it. Some storage wasted, no big deal.

3- They keep their bloatware RUNNING AT ALL TIMES, though it's NOT USED, and I can't stop it. OK, now they're just complete a$$holes. And the only reason they do it is because a very small minority complains about it.

4- This hasn't happened yet (hence I said three layers), but I can totally see them showing the occasional pop-up message "reminding" us of their bloatware and giving us "incentives" to "check it out". You might think they wouldn't be able to get away with that, but I disagree. I think a vocal minority would bitch and demand that the messages be turned off, but the vast majority of customers would just live with it, thus allowing the carrier to continue to do it.

 

[AndroidSPCS]

It's not just removing bloatware, but actively blocking apps that people want to use, like the google widgets, which are all completely blocked, on the phone and in the marketplace.

I'm ok if they installed bloatware, like you said, but to actually block people from installing a google search widget of their own choice, is not ok with me.

Pure evil.

 

[redraptor]

I have a feeling this has a LOT more to do with Microsoft than it does Verizon. Although Verizon is still VERY much to blame since they signed with them.

 

[Niir]

Google just need to say 'Android is free for you to put on your smartphone handsets UNLESS you wish to make changes to the OS in which case you pay a fee'

Yes its more closed but stock android (which alot of people want) is free and still open from an app POV (which make or break smartphones).

If carriers want to **** with the OS make them pay for it.

 

[HoldenCaufield]

2 things I miss about my old iphone 3g: 1) Lack of bloatware, 2) ease of syncing media (note: I love the cloud syncing of all the other stuff).

When iphone 4 was about to come out and it got leaked, I was super stoked, since it was upgrade time for me. But, (thank gob) I couldn't pre-order due to their well covered apple store fiasco. Then, as people started to discover the antenna issue, and other issues, and the fact that ios4 is really nothing new, I started to look elsewhere.

The truth is that we can, and regularly do, vote with our wallets. The problem is that, like voting in a general election, it doesn't really seem to matter, and it usually has it's costs.

I wrote a letter to Steve Jobs, about how if they didn't fix the problems, I would not be buying a new iphone. I really doubt he even read it. But whatever. I got an Evo on Sprint shortly thereafter.

Now that was about the time that the Droid X was coming out on Verizon. And I wanted one. But I read about the encrypted bootloader and efuse and stuff, and despite the fact that I really don't know what that means, other than no custom roms, I knew I didn't want that. Plus, Verizon is ******ed expensive. I was going to go on my parents' family plan, and it would have been more than if I stayed with ATT at about $82. Now I'm on Sprint, with a better plan for about $67. And my Evo is arguably more "open." Well, at least it can be fully roooted (which I am not, but still).

Check out Engadget's review of the Fascinate:
Samsung Fascinate review -- Engadget
which is probably the OP's original source and basis for complaint.

As I see it Samsung and Verizon are really screwing things up. There are a couple of options here:
1) Buy the phone, and just don't use the crapware. Deal with the lack of gapps. And know that you got a pretty good phone. (A vote for the continuing of this type of thing)

2) Buy the phone and root it, and uninstall that garbage. (Despite rooting, Samsung and VZW still get your $)

3) There are plenty of other great phones on the market, and plenty of other carriers. (Vote against)

But the truth is that my Evo still has plenty of crapware that I wish wasn't there, like Nascar (really?), crappy NFL (now that VZW is exclusive with them), Sprint TV, etc.

It must be in Apple's contract with ATT that none of ATT's proprietary crapps get put on the iphone. And if you're dead set against that sort of thing, then yea, you should buy an iphone. Just make sure you hold it the way the Steve says you can hold it.

Edit:
I just ran across this interesting article about how carriers are using Android's openness to make it more closed. Seemed pertinent.
http://techcrunch.com/2010/09/09/android-open/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+Techcrunch+(TechCrunch)

 

[Tangent]

Yes what Verizon is doing is reverting back to their dumbphone days, when they locked down the RAZR so you couldn't upload your own ringtones to the phone - you had to buy them through VZW only.
...

This is exactly what first made me dislike Verizon. My work uses Verizon for our cell phones and comparing the way they locked down the RAZR and removed features vs the RAZR my wife had through T-Mobile was pretty eye-opening. I was actually amazed when they released their first Android phones and they weren't crippled.

Of course since the time I first saw how they crippled the cell phones I also experienced their horrific customer service with DSL I had from them at home. After that debacle I switched ISPs as soon as I could and dumped their landline service as well. (I switched my landline to T-Mobile's @Home VOIP service that they don't seem to offer new customers anymore) The only way I'll ever use any service from Verizon at this point is if I have absolutely no other choice. Between their great service, great prices, and outstanding customer service I think I'll just stick with T-Mobile...

 

[Pop Korn]

T-Mobile.....great service????? Bah ha ha hahaha!

 

[Rota]

LOL that should be Sprint's new marketing slogan... would be brilliant if they did that...

Hopefully this is one of many millions of votes in the wallet to tell VZW what they are doing is not acceptable.

I always tell my girlfriend I should write slogans. She never believes me. Thanks for the positive support.

 

[ZDroid1]

What I don't get is how they try to stop people from rooting. It's like we're paying them for the damn phone and all the crapware that comes with it, on top of signing a contract that makes us stuck with them for two years, not to mention the fraud that is called texting plans and all the other fees.

You'd think they'd just take our money and shut the F+++ up! But no that's not enough. We HAVE to have the bloatware.

Why do they care what we do with a product that we paid for and now own?

Imagine Ford telling me how to drive my own car.

 

[bbrosen]

I have said this many times, the carriers will kill android. They do not want to become just an anonymous no brand pipeline for the internet to our phones, plus they all think they are special, have their own little programs they think everyone will want..cellularsouth has "emerge" some music discovery and download deal and "Y'all vs Us" high school football rivalries program...BFD...no one cares, no one wants them but it's all they advertise. They advertised this spring the "Summer of droid" where they would have several of the gamechanging android phones, well they released one this summer, the Milestone. The hero was released in dec of 09.


some of these companies need to get over themselves, big time. and the carriers are now starting to lock these phones down tighter than a tick on a hound, it will soon not be easy or worth it to root the phones, even for the geeks.