Just Posted This "Epic Comment" on Engadget

[boomerbubba]

Just to show that I really do care about consumer activism (my tepid opinion of Engadget notwithstanding) I do appreciate the efforts within the user forums to engage the Sprint network issue. It has caused me to invest more personal energy investigating it.

My own consumer activism takes a rather more tangible form

I am a new Sprint customer, still in my 30-day trial period, and I have been quite underwhelmed by the network performance overall. I live in what is supposed to be a "4G" city, but the spotty 4G coverage frequently forces me into 3G mode. The bottom line is that I generally got faster and more consistent network performance with T-Mobile.

The root cause of part of this (the 3G upload speed) may be Samsung's issue. But I am not Samsung's customer; I am Sprint's customer. They sold me both the phone and the service, and branded the phone with their own logo.

So I am leaning toward returning the phone and switching back before the 30 days are up.

That is the sort of consumer activism that might get noticed if enough people do it.

 

[Aero1]

Fact: I am wearing shoes with strings.

As a writer for the shoestring blog in question, i'd like to mention that we do read the comments, however I would not encourage people to leave off topic comments, for any reason. I have an Epic, some of these issues I've experienced and some of them I haven't/not to that extent, i'm trying to get together a full list of issues that need to be looked into, please drop me a line with whatever information you have so I can make sure it's included, thanks!

richard.lawler@engadget.com / @rjcc on Twitter

I have to say your review of the Epic seems to have depended on flack answers from Samsung over actual testing bv your staff. If it isn't a shoestring blog -- it acts like one.

Exactly how did you not test 3G speeds? And what is your complete and unquestioned regurgitation of Samsung's spin on GPS about?

We can read Samsung's press releases, we don't need reviews based on them instead of testing.

Samsung has recently had GPS problems outside of the Galaxy line. Specifically the Omnias assistance cache was sticking. It looks like an identical issue is also present on Epic. This manefests by GPS working fine, and then often not working later in the day abset a reboot. Users are seeing this. You review is the most samsung supportive on GPS claims. Given that one would have expected more seriuos tests.

 

[Aero1]

That's not even the worst of it. I just spent the last (little over an) hour talking with a guy at Sprint tech department, going over in great details this UL issue, and how the Evo doesn't have this issue etc. And I learned that the way tech support and CS logs our complaints is very individualized, as well as limited.

He searched his system for other complaints like ours, and even searched for something similar - nothing comes up! So it makes it look like it's just me having this issue, and no one else has called in to complain. Of course I told him that a LOT of people have called this issue in, as well as it's all over various forums with people complaining about this UL problem.

So I gather from our conversation, that their trouble-shooting ticket is a basic form, and only targets us as individuals, instead of over the entire database of issues. It targeted me and my home address only, based on what he said. With us being a minority (compared to the general public), our complaning calls - I fear will fall on deaf ears.
.

That is right. Although I have spoken with device team support and they yahve it, on a lark I called regualr support to see the foollow up oin my trouble ticket this morning. Answer from normal tech support: I am the only one with this DL issue and the one one with a GPS issue. I need to do a hard reset of my phone, lol.

 

[robl45]

That is right. Although I have spoken with device team support and they yahve it, on a lark I called regualr support to see the foollow up oin my trouble ticket this morning. Answer from normal tech support: I am the only one with this DL issue and the one one with a GPS issue. I need to do a hard reset of my phone, lol.

first thing they had me do was a hard reset when i called a week or so ago. i did it on my wifes phone, of course it didn't change anything, meanwhile my ticket they opened was answered, they said they would get back and nada. maybe tmobile would appreciate my business more??

whats more worrysome is why this hasn't hit engadget yet, i firmly believe sprint will delay as long as possible to lock people in rather than doing anything.

 

[robrob]

Frankly I think these people are imagining this issue, I have both the Evo and Epic and see no difference in speeds at all.

Are you running a speed test? Are you uploading pics and especially video with both phones? If not you won't notice the slower-than-snot upload speeds of the Epic.

 

[militaryman]

first thing they had me do was a hard reset when i called a week or so ago. i did it on my wifes phone, of course it didn't change anything, meanwhile my ticket they opened was answered, they said they would get back and nada. maybe tmobile would appreciate my business more??

whats more worrysome is why this hasn't hit engadget yet, i firmly believe sprint will delay as long as possible to lock people in rather than doing anything.

Yep, unfortunately folks have to jump up and down and pounds the fist to get a response/action from Sprint -- even that is useless without a round of bad press ---

I am definitely going to start frequenting more often tech sites that call out carriers on defects and bugs vs. the ones that keep their mouth shut and let us suffer.

I mean the sites are given the phones to do reviews so they can eaisly go do some of the bug verification as things arise and give the press on them as the verify what consumers complain on validly.

 

[Thefoodman52]

Lets get Android Central to start making videos on the issue... they make a few posts, engadget picks it up, gizmodo copies them, and there we have 2 of the biggest sites beginning to spew bad press about it. Then, start making the calls into sprint and reference the articles they put up.

 

[Aero1]

Frankly I think these people are imagining this issue, I have both the Evo and Epic and see no difference in speeds at all.

Frankly I am wondering what you are doing on these forums since you woudl be happy with a $25 phone and apparently don't knwo your way around the basics of the phones you claim to have.

You claimed on the other thread on this issue that it is peoples connections. People with both eVO and Epic (I have both) note the epic consistently ahs abut 1/2 the download speed and about 1/3 the upload speed in 3G. that is a PROFOUND difference. This kills bundled applications like qik

 

[Aero1]

Android XTC:
I'm very happy your Epic is working flawlessly and that you have no problems with it, but that means (and I say this without malice) that your attacks on this thread are irrelevant. This thread is specifically for people who are having trouble with data services and have found that their speeds are slow to nonexistent. I can guarantee that everyone experiencing this issue would rather have great speeds like yours and not have to post here and elsewhere.

Flas, good points, but as a point of fact no one here, an no epic owner anywhere would want "Android xtc's" 3G speeds as it is certain he has the same dog slow speeds. If you notice he has not posted his speeds, and if he claims getting over 150 upload then we will know he is making it up.

The only issue at all is lighting a fire under Sprints but to get this going . I for one am paying $10 per line surcharge for the claimed better 3G experience and the 3G on all our epics Epic is worse than older 3G phones people have on SERO!

 

[flonkas]

It really annoys me that no one in the mainstream press has addressed the upload speed/voice reliability issues on the Epic. The GPS issue needs to be taken care of, but many users in major cities rely on public transportation or have GPS systems in their car: 30m off is frustrating but not a deal-breaker. On the other hand, nonexistent 3G coverage in an emergency is, as is losing service in the middle of making a business deal or locating one's spouse and family. I've begun posting in every Epic thread on Engadget and Gizmodo in hopes that someone will finally notice, since writing to the editor has elicited no response.

Here's the last one I posted:

My service/gps/upload speed has absolutley nothing wrong.

 

[Torq]

My service/gps/upload speed has absolutley nothing wrong.

Can you post a screenshot of your 3G upload speeds?

Having solid, repeatable, evidence that there are Epics that don't exhibit the 3G upload speed issue would be useful in getting to the bottom of what's going on here.

As for the GPS ... don't know what to tell you there ... you might be okay with its performance, but the fact that it has a stuck-caching issue when used purely in autonomous mode isn't really up for debate (I believe even Sprint acknowledge this is an issue).

 

[Blitzpwnage]

Can you post a screenshot of your 3G upload speeds?

Having solid, repeatable, evidence that there are Epics that don't exhibit the 3G upload speed issue would be useful in getting to the bottom of what's going on here.

As for the GPS ... don't know what to tell you there ... you might be okay with its performance, but the fact that it has a stuck-caching issue when used purely in autonomous mode isn't really up for debate (I believe even Sprint acknowledge this is an issue).

As are mine, I regularly get 1200-2000 kps down and I get 300-400 upload.
Idk what everyone is talking about...Haters be Hatin.

 

[Torq]

As are mine, I regularly get 1200-2000 kps down and I get 300-400 upload.
Idk what everyone is talking about...Haters be Hatin.

It's hardly "hatin" to try and get to the bottom of an issue we want resolved so we can use the thing properly.

Can you post screenshots of your 3G upload speeds? Again, actually having some contrarian evidence here would be really useful in trying to figure out what is going on.

 

[Aero1]

My service/gps/upload speed has absolutley nothing wrong.

You mean you are coming from a dumphone and don't recognize your upload speeds are absurdly slow and than many advertised functions, for example video chat, are not goig to work in most areas of the coutnry.

You posting is like posting you are "ok with" 1mps on a forum discussing 3mps ISP services that is actually 1mps. Or oif the camera tuned out to be 1 megapixels instead of five, saying there was no problem because you like blurry pictures.

And your GPS has a major flaw. it is already proven. You just haven hit the cirucumstance were it comes up.

 

[Aero1]

As are mine, I regularly get 1200-2000 kps down and I get 300-400 upload.
Idk what everyone is talking about...Haters be Hatin.

Nope you just don't know how to runt he test. Sprint canot get ANY of their top level device eam Epics to go over 150.

You just are over your head.

And stop trolling calling people who know their technical issues "haters"

 

[jfenton]

I was a rider on the way home from work today....Burlington MA to Haverhill MA which is about 33 miles.

I did 15 speed tests total with 5 different test servers.

All the time I had 3-5 bars showing.

Highest DL was 1.1 Kbps but often it was more often around 600kbps

Every single UP was between 140 and 150 kbps.

 

[Bitbang3r]

Call it a hunch, but this is probably going to be the lead story on Slashdot tomorrow morning. It was posted less than a half hour ago, and it's already showing up with a red header, and is one of the top 10 stories in the Firehose:

Slashdot Submission | Sprint Epic4G 3G upload speeds limited to 150kbps

http://slashdot.org/firehose

 

[rjcc]

I have to say your review of the Epic seems to have depended on flack answers from Samsung over actual testing bv your staff. If it isn't a shoestring blog -- it acts like one.

Exactly how did you not test 3G speeds? And what is your complete and unquestioned regurgitation of Samsung's spin on GPS about?

We can read Samsung's press releases, we don't need reviews based on them instead of testing.

Samsung has recently had GPS problems outside of the Galaxy line. Specifically the Omnias assistance cache was sticking. It looks like an identical issue is also present on Epic. This manefests by GPS working fine, and then often not working later in the day abset a reboot. Users are seeing this. You review is the most samsung supportive on GPS claims. Given that one would have expected more seriuos tests.

Sure, using the GPS and 3G, and 4G in standard activities like Google Maps and Foursquare and browsing the web is "relying on flack answers." The reviewer is using the phone the way most people use it every day, if you're not satisfied with it, you're welcome to consider other sources of information, see if they'd like to put every phone through a 48-hour GPS accuracy test. This isn't some Car & Driver six month long term test, the review is exactly what it claims to be, and the way we used the phone is stated in it.

 

[boomerbubba]

Sure, using the GPS and 3G, and 4G in standard activities like Google Maps and Foursquare and browsing the web is "relying on flack answers." The reviewer is using the phone the way most people use it every day, if you're not satisfied with it, you're welcome to consider other sources of information, see if they'd like to put every phone through a 48-hour GPS accuracy test. This isn't some Car & Driver six month long term test, the review is exactly what it claims to be, and the way we used the phone is stated in it.

It doesn't take six months of testing to identify the real problems that have been replicated many times in the user forums using commonly available testing apps such as GPS Test, GPS Status and Google's My Tracks.

You guys really don't know how to test GPS. Engadget fail.

 

[dbpaddler]

Was actually trying to upload pics to facebook last night while at the Phillies game and both were taking forever, got hung up and failed. First time that's ever happened to me on a mobile phone. Not to mention more signal related issues in general than I had with my Evo. I went from being so impressed with the panorama photo capability to being annoyed as hell because I couldn't share them with people. And I send photos quite a bit for work, not to mention files as I use DTG more and more. Being used as a business device, upload speeds are important. Much more important than a smiley key on the keyboard.

In defense of Engadget and GPS..The GPS actually works fairly well. Isn't the cache dumping the real problem? If one is turning their phone on and off in a regular fashion they just might not notice the issue. So it'd be easy for Engadget to not have gps issues while testing. Forum user fail.

 

[Flaspeneer]

Even if it has been posted elsewhere, I thought this news was particularly relevant to this thread:

Here is a link to Richard Lawler's piece on the Epic's Media Hub update, in which he reports on the upload speed issue.

Note that Engadget added it close on the heels of the recent Slash item that focused on the upload issue more directly -- and that the Slash item linked by Bitbang3r is a direct result of the upload speed thread on Sprint's official forum, which is peppered with posts by people from this forum and even this thread.

This isn't about attitude. This isn't about "hating," as those who are not thinking diagnostically keep insisting. This is about positive consumer action.

This is about making two major companies aware of an unacceptable defect and getting them to fix said defect for the benefit of all users -- whether they be haters, lovers or people who'd like to get the most out of their phones and aren't thinking in anthropomorphic fetishistic terms.

Enough about booing and cheering. This is a phone, not a football team. Attitudes are for spectators.

This is about functionality. The Epic 4G is supposed to pass data at higher (and advertised) speeds.

Let's do everything in our power to get Sprint and Samsung to make sure the phone works as advertised and not at worse speeds than earlier generations.

Let's get this issue publicized so that, if end-users are stuck with slow speeds for the duration of a two-year contract, they have the basis for a class action lawsuit, and Sprint knows this and will be less inclined to leave things as they are.

We're not hurting Samsung or Sprint by publicizing this. We're not trashing your precious phone or carrier or its brand. We're trying to ensure that we get what we paid for and, in the process, that everyone else does as well.

And don't forget to add comments verifying the issue directly under the Lawler piece.

 

[Torq]

Sure, using the GPS and 3G, and 4G in standard activities like Google Maps and Foursquare and browsing the web is "relying on flack answers." The reviewer is using the phone the way most people use it every day, if you're not satisfied with it, you're welcome to consider other sources of information, see if they'd like to put every phone through a 48-hour GPS accuracy test. This isn't some Car & Driver six month long term test, the review is exactly what it claims to be, and the way we used the phone is stated in it.

It didn't take close to 48 hours for the GPS issue to become obvious to me. More like 4, and that wasn't continuous testing that was looking at it once when I first powered up the phone and then actually trying to use it about 4 hours later and finding out the damn thing would not lock on to anything without a reboot.

Engadget posts "Epic 4G GPS is verified" (or validated or whatever the headline said) based on what exactly then?

If you don't know how to test GPS, don't bloody review it or comment on it.

The 3G upload speeds were obvious very quickly in normal use as well. I cannot imagine anyone not experiencing 3G for the first time would not be aware of the consistently piss-poor performance.

There's a clear lesson for me here: If it's Engadget, and it's Samsung, it'll be a waste of time to read.

 

[Torq]

In defense of Engadget and GPS..The GPS actually works fairly well. Isn't the cache dumping the real problem? If one is turning their phone on and off in a regular fashion they just might not notice the issue. So it'd be easy for Engadget to not have gps issues while testing. Forum user fail.

There are multiple GPS issues.

Normal practice for everyone I know that uses a cellphone is that it only gets turned off a) when getting on a plane, b) when something is screwed up or c) when they're in a hurry to charge it.

So in other words, I typically go weeks without even thinking about turning my phone off unless I was travelling.

 

[Flaspeneer]

The GPS issue is important, obviously, but we're still talking about an older Engadget article. This one talks about upload speeds -- the subject of my original post -- and I'd love to know your thoughts about it.

If you read the first post, you'll see I hoped to have input on the upload speed issue. My point was that the GPS issue has been criticized publicly already. We're now seeing the very first journalistic acknowledgment of the upload issue and I'd like users' reactions to all of it -- especially since the issue was made public by user complaints. Have journalists addressed your complaints about upload speeds fairly or comprehensively? If not, tell us (and tell them).

Here's my opinion:

Chris Ziegler devoted two full articles to the GPS issue, which he also claims tests have invalidated. Lawson then addressed the issue of the upload speed cap in a mere nine-word item in a list of issues in a single solitary sentence -- an issue that has been verified by virtually everyone who owns an Epic and is the main reason people on Sprint's official forums are talking about returning their phones.

I'm not here to bash Engadget. I'm here to talk about specifics. I appreciate that Lawson covered the issue at all. But exactly how useful was it to put the emphasis on GPS yet again when the main reason people are exchanging their phones is the s-l-o-o-w performance on 3G? Every potential Epic customer should know about the 3G cap that will affect their service.

I don't expect Engadget reviewers to flag limitations they haven't experienced in products they examine and use for short periods before deadlines.

What I do expect is that journalists in present time, armed with facts and public confirmation of a known issue by Sprint reps, and tech people on Sprint's own public forum, will do their best to apprise readers.

An issue like that can affect readers' decisions to purchase any phone that exhibits it. Anyone who thinks that slow and dropped service on a smartphone isn't important should have a look at trends in the iPhone 4's sales after the antenna issue became known.

I'm not talking about someone's alleged failure to list present issues in past reviews. I'm talking about present reporting. Present reporting in present time and its responsibility to cover legitimate known defects.

It doesn't matter whether 4G is faster than 3G because we're all going to have to rely on 3G in many areas for the foreseeable future. The Epic needs to provide adequate service under all reasonable conditions, as advertised and promised.

Where's the Endgadget piece about that? Where's the reporting of any kind on that issue -- the one that Sprint's techs have verified and which journalists can't dismiss?

 

[jim2point0]

Where's the Endgadget piece about that? Where's the reporting of any kind on that issue -- the one that Sprint's techs have verified and which journalists can't dismiss?

Were at least 1 big reviewer to catch this, the issue would have had so much more exposure. These phone reviewers should step up their game and so some real testing before saying a phone is great. They could actually do some good by catching problems and alerting the masses about it early.