Help Has the X10 enough RAM for 2.1 in full?

[ironass]

I notice from the spec's of the X10 that it is running on 384MB of RAM.

This would appear to be 25% (128MB) less than other handsets like the Nexus One, HTC Desire and Samsung Galaxy, Motorola Droid which have had 2.1.

I therefore was wondering if the reason for the long delay in launching 2.1 on the X10 might not be due to SE having to manipulate the 2.1 firmware, by allegedly omitting certain features, such as multi-touch and 16M screen resolution, so that they could incorporate their own Timescape and Mediascape programmes and still maintain a reasonable user experience and performance.

If this is the case, it then begs the question whether the X10 will ever receive 2.2, FroYo or 3, Gingerbread in future or is this the end of the line for the X10?

 

[Tuttle]

I believe I read somewhere that the x10 will not be able to run 3.0 Gingerbread, so 2.2 will be as far as it will go. I wish I had a source for you, but I sadly don't.

 

[gunny5821]

I wonder the same thing, as the CPU on 1.6 can get taxed and bogged down pretty easy. I think Sony made a huge mistake placing that small amount of RAM on this phone, when memory now a days is so large everywhere else. I mean heck the Captivate has 16G of internal memory and we have 1GB to work with. What makes it worse, on 1.6, you cannot move anything from internal memory to the SD card, so we have 1GB to make do when others have a huge amount and they can relocate there programs/apps.

Regarding 2.2 and 3.0. I don't think we will ever see either one. As much as Sony is baulking at just 2.1 and stating that some things will not initialy be included, but will be included at a later date (Yeah right).... No, we will be lucky if we get all of the ability that 2.1 can provide. 2.2, seriously doubt it and 3.0 never gonna happen, at least from Sony's end...... just my 2 cents

 

[ironass]

If my hypothesis is true, that there is too little RAM in the X10, then it would explain why Sony Ericsson chose to launch it in March this year with the old 1.6, Donut, firmware whilst its competitors were launching with 2.1 at the same time, and even before that date.

It would seem that the X10 was sold from day one with built-in obsolescence in that SE knew that it would not be able to handle the, already 2 month old, 2.1 firmware.

It would also explain the 6 month delay in updating the X10, which it seems that they are now only attempting after numerous petitions and complaints from owners.

This could therefore just be an attempt at a "face-saving" exercise on the part of SE on the verge of the launch of the X8 which is shown as running on.... 1.6, Donut!!!

Since I cannot find the exact size of the RAM (not ROM) I can only speculate that the reason for 1.6 on this model, due for launch in the next 10 days, is the same as the X10.

This would not be the first time that a major mobile manufacturer has under spec'd a handset. One only has to look at Nokia's, then, flagship phone, the ill fated N97, which was both short on RAM and internal memory as well as an underpowered CPU.

If this is right, then the rush to bring out a version, of the already outdated, 2.1 is as much an effort to boost sales for the X8 as it is to placate X10 owners.

UPDATE

This site shows the X8 as having only 128MB of RAM. I cannot believe that!

Sony Xperia X8 Photos and User

 

[NaplesBill]

I wonder the same thing, as the CPU on 1.6 can get taxed and bogged down pretty easy. I think Sony made a huge mistake placing that small amount of RAM on this phone, when memory now a days is so large everywhere else. I mean heck the Captivate has 16G of internal memory and we have 1GB to work with. What makes it worse, on 1.6, you cannot move anything from internal memory to the SD card, so we have 1GB to make do when others have a huge amount and they can relocate there programs/apps.

Regarding 2.2 and 3.0. I don't think we will ever see either one. As much as Sony is baulking at just 2.1 and stating that some things will not initialy be included, but will be included at a later date (Yeah right).... No, we will be lucky if we get all of the ability that 2.1 can provide. 2.2, seriously doubt it and 3.0 never gonna happen, at least from Sony's end...... just my 2 cents

I am not having any bog down issues at all on my X10. I'm running the original AT&T R2CA016 ROM and it has been rooted, decrapified (bloatware removed), and non-market apps re-enabled. This thing runs great has great battery life (1.5-2 days) and never lags.

Also, the Captivate does not actually have 16 of "internal" memory. It is not addressable as internal its a built-in SD card of sorts and shows up as "sdcard" and when you add an external SD card it shows up as "sdcard/sd." This adds confusion and seems rather hokey to me.

If my hypothesis is true, that there is too little RAM in the X10, then it would explain why Sony Ericsson chose to launch it in March this year with the old 1.6, Donut, firmware whilst its competitors were launching with 2.1 at the same time, and even before that date.

It would seem that the X10 was sold from day one with built-in obsolescence in that SE knew that it would not be able to handle the, already 2 month old, 2.1 firmware.

It would also explain the 6 month delay in updating the X10, which it seems that they are now only attempting after numerous petitions and complaints from owners.

This could therefore just be an attempt at a "face-saving" exercise on the part of SE on the verge of the launch of the X8 which is shown as running on.... 1.6, Donut!!!

Since I cannot find the exact size of the RAM (not ROM) I can only speculate that the reason for 1.6 on this model, due for launch in the next 10 days, is the same as the X10.

This would not be the first time that a major mobile manufacturer has under spec'd a handset. One only has to look at Nokia's, then, flagship phone, the ill fated N97, which was both short on RAM and internal memory as well as an underpowered CPU.

If this is right, then the rush to bring out a version, of the already outdated, 2.1 is as much an effort to boost sales for the X8 as it is to placate X10 owners.

UPDATE

This site shows the X8 as having only 128MB of RAM. I cannot believe that!

Sony Xperia X8 Photos and User

 

[powerkiter]

Well if my girlfriends Galaxy Portal runs 2.1 fine then the x10 will too.

Yes we have less RAM than other phones, but we have more storage space than the desire that only has 512meg. It's only the Galaxy S that can beat the X10 on storage, this phone will handle 2.1 and .2 no problems as for 16m colours I've been saying for a while that the phone won't get it and not due to issues just SE the same as my it will not get either of these from a SE update.

Plus the rumors say SE is releasing a games phone running 3.0 so I can't see us ever seeing 3.0 on this phone unless the boot loader gets cracked, but on a brighter note at least SE have not just dumped the X10 like they did the satio!

 

[Merolas]

Anyway by the time 3.0 get realeasedd we probably get a new handset (X12). My guess is that 2.2 will be the latest firmware we will see on X10. I might forgive SE because it's their first try on the competitive SmartPhone business but from a such huge company they could have made it better... the only thing they got right the 1st time is the desing

 

[ironass]

Thanks NaplesBill and powerkiter for pointing out that.

In light of your information I am therefore at a loss to explain why Sony Ericsson would launch the flagship X10 in March with outdated firmware and why it has taken 6 months to issue, a potentially diluted, 9 month old firmware on this handset.

Also, why would they advertise the launch the X8 this month with 1.6?

Surely this is commercial suicide.

Perhaps some of you could shed some light on this.

 

[powerkiter]

SE at there best there then as the X8 was billed to be launched with 2.1?

 

[ironass]

SE at there best there then as the X8 was billed to be launched with 2.1?

Everything I've read about the X8 shows 1.6 on launch this month. See here:-

Sony Ericsson XPERIA X8 - Full phone specifications

Sony Ericsson Xperia X8 Specs, Features & Release Dates Now Official [Sony Ericcson Announces the Xperia X8, Are You Ready for ?Shakira??] TFTS

 

[NaplesBill]

There are many reasons why Sony launched with 1.6. A lot of it has to do with development cycles and appropriate testing. I have worked in a large (200+) programmers and I can tell you that adequate testing takes time. So, they faced a situation where they began all their work and testing on 1.6 but before they finished, 2.x was released by Google. They would have to start over and throw out months of effort and cause even further delays on the product. They apparently (don't take these as facts but more as observations) decided it would be better to sort of backport some of the 2.x features on 1.6. I honestly think this is what happened (or some facsimile there of) and probably why the initial release date slipped.

The one thing many people fail to realize is the scope of what MediaScape was designed for. Android has never really had a good music app as far as I'm concerned. The apps are all a bunch of hodge podge and not truly integrated or deep enough for my tastes. With the X10, MediaScape, and MediaGo, we are getting a fully integrated and full featured solution equivalent to a Zune, iPod, and of course a Walkman. That is where I honestly think most of the delays are coming from.

Finally, I am more than willing to wait for a fully tested and stable ROM than end up with something like that which is running on the Galaxy S devices. It's quite obvious that proper testing was NOT done on the Galaxy S devices.

 

[ironass]

Good point NaplesBill.

However, I'm assuming that SE must have known about 2.1 prior to it's release in January of this year and even if they were unwilling, or unable, to delay the launch of the X10 in March for the reasons you mention, it does seem an awfully long time for the update on their flagship X10.

It also begs the question, why, after all this testing and programming, if rumours are to be believed, are they not including some of the functions of 2.1, such as multi-touch in this release?

 

[NaplesBill]

Good point NaplesBill.

However, I'm assuming that SE must have known about 2.1 prior to it's release in January of this year and even if they were unwilling, or unable, to delay the launch of the X10 in March for the reasons you mention, it does seem an awfully long time for the update on their flagship X10.

It also begs the question, why, after all this testing and programming, if rumours are to be believed, are they not including some of the functions of 2.1, such as multi-touch in this release?

Sony is on record stating the X10 does not support multitouch. This came after they stated that it would in a future update. Because of this contradiction, many people still believe that the X10 can do MT and that is the cause for disappointment. Even if the X10 does do MT, I don't think we will see Sony admit or enable it. However, if the support is truly there, some dev(s) over at XDA will eventually sort it out.

 

[Merolas]

I heard that SE could not sell the device with 2.1 at lauch because Motorola and Samsung had the exclusive rights for developpements when the X10 came out

 

[cwepruk]

Either way, the X10 has been out for a long time and we're still on 1.6 while almost every other droid phone has been updated to 2.1 or 2.2.

 

[NaplesBill]

Either way, the X10 has been out for a long time and we're still on 1.6 while almost every other droid phone has been updated to 2.1 or 2.2.

Tell that to all the Motorola Cliq, Backflip, Devour, etc. users. Also the Dell Aero and certain Samsung devices. Most of the better devices have only recently been upgraded as well. It's not nearly the big deal everyone makes it. Also, most of those other devices do not have the level of capability the X10 has even though it's 1.6.

It's all mostly a numbers game anyway. Using the device is barely even affected for 90% of it's uses.

 

[gunny5821]

I am not having any bog down issues at all on my X10. I'm running the original AT&T R2CA016 ROM and it has been rooted, decrapified (bloatware removed), and non-market apps re-enabled. This thing runs great has great battery life (1.5-2 days) and never lags.

Also, the Captivate does not actually have 16 of "internal" memory. It is not addressable as internal its a built-in SD card of sorts and shows up as "sdcard" and when you add an external SD card it shows up as "sdcard/sd." This adds confusion and seems rather hokey to me.



There are plenty of devices with 256 mb (192 in the case of the G1) running 2.1 and 2.2 just fine. This is even with lower spec CPUs and probably slower memory. There is no issue with 384mb of ram on either 2.1 or 2.2. 2.1 cannot address 512mb anyway, you need 2.2 for that.

The things which bogged down my phone were all of the app that were keeping track of all of the specs (CPU, RAM, Storage, etc..). Once I removed those apps, I eliminated the bogg down on the phone. I have a root question for you, since you have been rooted for quite awhile now. As rooted, are you still able to access the Market and download apps, or is that all off limits after the rooting? I understand the removal of bloat ware when rooted, but what else does it bring that is worth rooting? Also, if I root, will I lose all of the apps I have downloaded onto my phone prior to rooting? I am seriously considering this as it will free up a substantial amout of storage space. One important piece of the rooting puzzle, will the phone still work through AT&T with my current sim card. Since I am under contract with them, I cannot change carriers, at least $$$ wise without taking a huge hit...

Please let me know.. Thanks!

 

[Jcbpnl]

The things which bogged down my phone were all of the app that were keeping track of all of the specs (CPU, RAM, Storage, etc..). Once I removed those apps, I eliminated the bogg down on the phone. I have a root question for you, since you have been rooted for quite awhile now. As rooted, are you still able to access the Market and download apps, or is that all off limits after the rooting? I understand the removal of bloat ware when rooted, but what else does it bring that is worth rooting? Also, if I root, will I lose all of the apps I have downloaded onto my phone prior to rooting? I am seriously considering this as it will free up a substantial amout of storage space. One important piece of the rooting puzzle, will the phone still work through AT&T with my current sim card. Since I am under contract with them, I cannot change carriers, at least $$$ wise without taking a huge hit...

Please let me know.. Thanks!

All rooting does is allow you to change settings on your phone that you weren't able to before. You become a superuser which allows you to do some really neat things. You don't lose anything that is currently on your phone and yes, it will still work with ATT.

HOWEVER, if you flash a different rom such as the generic NA rom, you will lose everything that is on your phone.

Rooting will not make you lose things, only re flashing will.

 

[cwepruk]

It's not nearly the big deal everyone makes it. Also, most of those other devices do not have the level of capability the X10 has even though it's 1.6.
.

All the phones that are/were X10 competition, at similar prices are on 2.2 right now and started with 2.1

I can handle waiting for the update, but this update still doesn't even give us the full 2.1 benefits. Fail.

 

[powerkiter]

OK we are still on 1.6 and "should" be getting updated soon to 2.1 but my mates desire is still on 2.1 and he moans the same about why he hasn't got 2.2 yet.

 

[tiggerlator]

The desire should have got 2.2 by now i'm sure.

 

[NaplesBill]

All the phones that are/were X10 competition, at similar prices are on 2.2 right now and started with 2.1

I can handle waiting for the update, but this update still doesn't even give us the full 2.1 benefits. Fail.

The Samsung Galaxy S devices are still on 2.1. What benefits from 2.1 are you missing? Multitouch? MT, it seems, will never be supported by SE on the X10. I am pretty sure it could be enabled but they are on record saying it isn't capable so I wouldn't hold your breath for them to enable MT.

 

[crossy]

[snipped] MT, it seems, will never be supported by SE on the X10. I am pretty sure it could be enabled but they are on record saying it isn't capable so I wouldn't hold your breath for them to enable MT.

That's true - it's something to do with the particular capacitive screen that's used on the X10. Consensus on the SE support site is that any idea of true MT is dead in the water. The qualification on that was because - apparently - someone on xda-devs has managed to 'simulate' MT. Don't ask me how - I couldn't begin to guess.

If this is the case, it then begs the question whether the X10 will ever receive 2.2, FroYo or 3, Gingerbread in future or is this the end of the line for the X10?

Again, opinion is pretty solid that the X10 will never see an official version of G'bread and, personally speaking, I'd give you 30/70 percentages against the X10 receiving a Froyo blessing (but I'd love to see it happen).

Getting back to your original point - does the X10 have enough memory to run 2.1 reasonably - I'd say "yes". According to http://source.android.com/compatibility/android-2.1-cdd.pdf

Device implementations MUST have at least 92MB of memory available to the kernel and userspace. The 92MB MUST be in addition to any memory dedicated to hardware components such as radio, memory, and so on that is not under the kernel's control.

which - according to the look I just had at my X10 - would seem to be okay. I'm hoping to get the time to do some root-ing and pruning on my X10, in which case I might even get a bit more free memory (want rid of Moxier apps, Spotify and Skype)

 

[MrWomble]

All the phones that are/were X10 competition, at similar prices are on 2.2 right now and started with 2.1

I can handle waiting for the update, but this update still doesn't even give us the full 2.1 benefits. Fail.

well there we go - statement made - but please - tell me

WHICH 2.1 BENEFITS DO YOU NEED TO USE THAT WE'RE NOT GETTING ???

 

[BingoRingo]

Also, why would they advertise the launch the X8 this month with 1.6?

Surely this is commercial suicide.

Perhaps some of you could shed some light on this.

Honestly, I think nobody cares except a few enthusiasts. Most kids who get a smartphone just want to flash and will beg daddy for an iPhone or something with a big screen, they couldn't care less about 1.6, 2.1 or 2.2.

I mean if we come here and post, we're probably way above average in terms of caring about the OS. As long as they can make what the competition makes, SE has no real interest in upgrading their OS.