Help Is it actually a bad thing

[crewchief227]

That ever since I got my evo last Friday I have yet to let the battery get below 30%. I mean do I need to kill it and fully charge to get one good cycle on there? I thought though with these new Li-ion battery you don't need to do that but am I wrong. Please all opinions are welcome and if possible please cite 3rd party sites as your source and not just a self opinion as everybody has their own opinion.

 

[Slick1020]

No, it's not a nickel battery. Only for nickel based batteries do you let the battery die. For lithium ion batteries as soon as you get the phone, turn it off and let the phone charge for about 8-10 hours. Disregard the light turning green because lithium ion batteries will lie to you about their full capacity status when you first charge the battery. This is called initializing the battery since lithium ion manufactures do not initialize the batteries at the factory anymore. Initiazling a lithium ion battery tells the battery its maximum charging capacity.

 

[Vincent Law]

Ignore the above, lithium batteries don't even need initialization. It has no influence.

 

[Slick1020]

Ignore the above, lithium batteries don't even need initialization. It has no influence.

Actually, ignore whomever Vincent is. If you go to the battery tweaks thread I wrote the doctrine on EVO battery life. Secondly, I have a Seidio 1750 MAH battery and those are the specific instructions coming from Seidio about lithium ion batteries. So Vincent is clueless.....

 

[crewchief227]

That's what I thought as my sprint store guy went the night before I picked up my evo and drove an hour and a half round trip to get my phone from another store and then as a curtousy plugged my evo in for the night until 1000 am the next morning when they opened and I showed up to pick up my phone (I didn't sleep the night before as I was too excited). So she had a good 14 hours on the charger out of the gate.

 

[crewchief227]

Oh while I was typing you guys wrote all that but just so you know I did read the battery tweak faq guide and it still did not mention anything about what to do when you first unpack your phone just how to tweak the settings once you are out the gate.

 

[Slick1020]

That's what I thought as my sprint store guy went the night before I picked up my evo and drove an hour and a half round trip to get my phone from another store and then as a curtousy plugged my evo in for the night until 1000 am the next morning when they opened and I showed up to pick up my phone (I didn't sleep the night before as I was too excited). So she had a good 14 hours on the charger out of the gate.

Thanks for confirming how clueless Vincent is. Here is the link to my tweaks for the EVO on this site:

http://androidforums.com/evo-4g-tips-tricks/150799-battery-tweaks-htc-evo-4g.html

 

[Vincent Law]

Sorry, but you're wrong, Slick. Stop trolling.

A. It doesn't matter how much you write on a subject, it doesn't make it correct.
B. Just because seido told you something doesn't make it true. Seido is well known for being a shady company, and they love to use tactics like that so when people complain about their batteries being terrible, they can say "oh well you didn't initialize it! Your fault!". Very common.
C. The batteries are already charged and then drained to ~40% capacity at the factory. This would do any "initialization" in the first place. ALL batteries go through this, otherwise you'd have a nearly-dead battery when you get your phone. (Li-Ion store better at 40% capacity)
D. Once the light goes green, charging is halted. Period. Even IF the battery needed to be charged further, it won't do so. So much for your theory there.
E. Not a single reputable source corroborates your stories.

Edit: Wow, I just keep thinking of more reasons why you're wrong!

F. If this were true, in order to initialize it, you would need to fully drain then charge it in the first place, as the charging safety circuits on the battery would kick in to stop a charge if it thought it was already full.

(I mean, really, half of your battery tips are either common sense stuff stated by the Android OS itself, or are wrong/misinformed. Why should anyone trust you?)

 

[Slick1020]

Sorry, but you're wrong, Slick. Stop trolling.

A. It doesn't matter how much you write on a subject, it doesn't make it correct.
B. Just because seido told you something doesn't make it true. Seido is well known for being a shady company, and they love to use tactics like that so when people complain about their batteries being terrible, they can say "oh well you didn't initialize it! Your fault!". Very common.
C. The batteries are already charged and then drained to ~40% capacity at the factory. This would do any "initialization" in the first place. ALL batteries go through this, otherwise you'd have a nearly-dead battery when you get your phone. (Li-Ion store better at 40% capacity)
D. Once the light goes green, charging is halted. Period. Even IF the battery needed to be charged further, it won't do so. So much for your theory there.
E. Not a single reputable source corroborates your stories.

Edit: Wow, I just keep thinking of more reasons why you're wrong!

F. If this were true, in order to initialize it, you would need to fully drain then charge it in the first place, as the charging safety circuits on the battery would kick in to stop a charge if it thought it was already full.

(I mean, really, half of your battery tips are either common sense stuff stated by the Android OS itself, or are wrong/misinformed. Why should anyone trust you?)

Hey Crew, tell Vincent how he is sooooo wrong since he says evidence do not exist to back me up.

How to Make Your Cell Phone Battery Last Longer - wikiHow
Initialize a new battery. New batteries should be fully charged before their first use to obtain maximum capacity. Nickel-based batteries should be charged for 16 hours initially and run through 2-4 full charge/full discharge cycles, while lithium ion batteries should be charged for about 5-6 hours. Ignore the phone telling you that the battery is full--this is normal but is not accurate if the battery is not initialized. #DO NOT fully discharge a lithium-ion battery! Unlike Ni-Cd batteries, lithium-ion batteries' life is shortened every time you fully discharge them. Instead, charge them when the battery meter shows one bar left. Lithium-ion batteries, like most rechargeable batteries, have a set number of charges in them.[1]

 

[Vincent Law]

Did you write that wikiHow article? That doesn't make it a valid source, buddy. Use common sense, think about what I said instead of just insisting I'm wrong.

 

[Oddball]

Sorry, but you're wrong, Slick. Stop trolling.

A. It doesn't matter how much you write on a subject, it doesn't make it correct.
B. Just because seido told you something doesn't make it true. Seido is well known for being a shady company, and they love to use tactics like that so when people complain about their batteries being terrible, they can say "oh well you didn't initialize it! Your fault!". Very common.
C. The batteries are already charged and then drained to ~40% capacity at the factory. This would do any "initialization" in the first place. ALL batteries go through this, otherwise you'd have a nearly-dead battery when you get your phone. (Li-Ion store better at 40% capacity)
D. Once the light goes green, charging is halted. Period. Even IF the battery needed to be charged further, it won't do so. So much for your theory there.
E. Not a single reputable source corroborates your stories.

Edit: Wow, I just keep thinking of more reasons why you're wrong!

F. If this were true, in order to initialize it, you would need to fully drain then charge it in the first place, as the charging safety circuits on the battery would kick in to stop a charge if it thought it was already full.

(I mean, really, half of your battery tips are either common sense stuff stated by the Android OS itself, or are wrong/misinformed. Why should anyone trust you?)

So much disinformation about LIon batteries. Thanks for stating that.


There is NO prolonging techniques for LI batteries, period. When the protective circuit within the battery reaches 4.2 v that's it, no more charging. It will transition to a top off state at a much lower rate of charge. The topping charge can take almost as long as the initial max current phase of the charging process.

You can't trickle charge LI batteries because they don't tolerate over charging of any kind. It actually damages the internals of the battery, causing the cathode to oxidize and ultimately the battery fails.

Since most manufacturers, as Vincent Law stated ship with a 40% charge the adage about charging before use stems from the fact that the protection circuit in the latest LI batteries may require an initial charge to get it up above the low threshold voltage, i.e. the battery won't function due to built in protections as under voltage is worse than over voltage.


In fact THE only benefit to a full discharge and re-charge is it will reset the charge estimator if the battery has one. The battery has it's maximum available capacity right when it's manufactured. Period.

I've never ever done anything different in the years and years I have used rechargeable LI batteries and never once experienced anything remotely related to poor performance due to not "conditioning" or "priming" a battery. It simply doesn't work and no amount of message board threads or anecdotal tales from battery shops online will tell me otherwise.

Just use the battery as it was intended, don't overheat or overcharge (difficult to do anyway) and don't worry about discharge/recharge cycles.

Believe it or not 3.92 v is accepted to be the best upper voltage for LI batteries as this blends good performance with about a drastic increase in life expectancy. Keeping it off the 4.2 v threshold is the best way to extend life. You can't extend the capacity at all with any other methods short of shutting things down on your device.

 

[Hunterbeav]

Wow this is better the the Guiding Light...........can't wait to see who the winner is.

 

[Vincent Law]

Wow this is better the the Guiding Light...........can't wait to see who the winner is.

There's no winner, Oddball and I are simply trying to educate people on the factual information, not the nonsense that seems to get spread around. It's unfortunate that people hear this stuff (like Slick here) and believe it to be true without understanding that the underlying technology basically makes it impossible.

Even more unfortunate is that some people (maybe Slick here will be one, but hopefully not) refuse to accept this, just as some people refuse to accept that there isn't a Roswell conspiracy.

 

[Hunterbeav]

OMG there's not a Roswell conspiracy....you're kidding now right

 

[Vincent Law]

OMG there's not a Roswell conspiracy....you're kidding now right

I don't know if you're being funny or if you just misunderstood. I was saying that there is no conspiracy (aka, aliens did NOT land ).

Off topic though, let's get back to batteries.

 

[Slick1020]

There's no winner, Oddball and I are simply trying to educate people on the factual information, not the nonsense that seems to get spread around. It's unfortunate that people hear this stuff (like Slick here) and believe it to be true without understanding that the underlying technology basically makes it impossible.

Even more unfortunate is that some people (maybe Slick here will be one, but hopefully not) refuse to accept this, just as some people refuse to accept that there isn't a Roswell conspiracy.

The thank you count says it all first and foremost. And since an article does exist backing up Seidio, now you are whimpering over the fact that you are wrong. Suck it up and stop complaining.

 

[Oddball]

OMG there's not a Roswell conspiracy....you're kidding now right

Sarcasm aside...


It's very difficult to get accurate information about LI batteries when searching because so many people have saturated the search engines with threads and stories about conditioning, initializing, etc...it takes a bit of searching to find the information from the real sources. That wikihow article was written by a kid named Jordan. While that doesn't immediately disqualify him his information is absolutely inaccurate and stems from searching for battery information and taking the top search results.


Do the research, if you care, you'll find the truth...it's out there...don't be afraid

 

[Hunterbeav]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess you're a Democrat......am I right

 

[Oddball]

The thank you count says it all first and foremost. And since an article does exist backing up Seidio, now you are whimpering over the fact that you are wrong. Suck it up and stop complaining.

Now I am positive you don't know what you're talking about. An argument based upon this kind of fragile appeal to authority is fatally flawed when you use the number of thanks someone has received.

Not bashing you, just trying to clarify it. I suspect you'll take it the wrong way so, oh well!

 

[Oddball]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess you're a Democrat......am I right

If you're going to point a finger at someone it might be a good idea to name that person.

 

[Dougb256]

Can somebody pass the popcorn?

 

[Hunterbeav]

sorry It was meant to Vincent

 

[Jackk819]

I actually have a Ph.D in Electronic Engineering and in Aerospace Engineering. I work at Boeing and help design alot of battery powered parts for planes. And from what I have learned it really depends upon the company supplying the battery, and the process of how they make them. So both of you can't be proven correct or wrong at the moment. You have to keep diggin for more specific details on how the battery is manufactured.

 

[Oddball]

sorry It was meant to Vince

Got it!


hahaha this is good

 

[Vincent Law]

The thank you count says it all first and foremost. And since an article does exist backing up Seidio, now you are whimpering over the fact that you are wrong. Suck it up and stop complaining.

Yes, a thank you count totally makes you a valid source of information. I bet if you get 1000 thanks, you get an honorary degree in Electrical Engineering too!

By the way, saying such a thing exists but not linking to it is in itself very suspicious.

Finally, the fact that you refuse to refute anything we've said in this thread (and corroborated by the fact that no one else is backing you up) is the final word on this discussion. "Stop complaining" is just an invitation for a flame war, and there's no need for such immaturity here. If you don't want to admit to being misinformed, that's fine. Just leave the thread and in a day or two no one will remember it. The facts have been laid out, people can see rather easily the logical answer, and that's that. On to the next topic!