Locked down Android vs iOS

[chrlswltrs]

Don't get me wrong I love my Droid X and my Droid before that. With all the manufacturers now locking down devices it seems Android is becoming more like iOS all the time. The Droid X and 2 are pretty locked down and P3Droid tweeted last night that the G2 is even more locked down that them.

When we root an android phone it opens up a lot to themes, wireless tether, etc, but the same thing is possible on a jailbroken iPhone. The Cydia app store on a jailbroken iPhone is just as open as the Android market.

I am just wondering what is the real advantage of Android if manufacturers continue down the path of locking down all the devices? The Google integration is awesome (Navigation, Voice, etc) but there is a better app store available to iOS. Android market is catching up but it is taking the large companies a long time to catch on. Plus Google is still offering a lot on iOS, goggles is now available and they are planning to release navigation on google maps on the iPhone.

Hardware wise Apple has a better screen resolution, but everything else is better on the Droid X. When Apple finally releases the iPhone on other carriers than AT&CRAP, what real advantages will Google have unless they change their mind and release a Nexus2?

I love Android and had no intention of ever going back to Apple until I read P3Droid's tweet last night and it got me thinking. Please no responses "I hate apple" "iPhone is crap" etc. Lets please have a good thread about how Android manufacturers are turning Android into iOS and what advantages Android will have left when manufacturers get their way and all the phones are locked down so no more custom ROMs at all. Now I am thinking if iPhone 5 is actually an improvement, it is LTE, and on Verizon it might be worth considering.

 

[Thefoodman52]

Well, if manufacturers continue locking out the devices for developers, they're just losing sales, as well as reputation. Their devices will then be shunned by those of us looking for a powerhouse phone, and it'll more than likely be shelved as a feature phone that simply offers more features for the masses of people just blindly looking for a new phone.

That's kind of where the 'new' low end or entry level ones are headed now, like the flipout, and the other Motorola one going to at&t. I say 'new' because the hardware in those phones is ancient by today's standards.

 

[baillou2]

You bring up a very good point. I admit, I want to hate Apple. I despise their business practices and their dumbed down OS. But they do excel at quality, user-friendly hardware, and as lame as their OS is for a computer nerd type, it's probably better in the eyes of the average user.

However the Android OS still seems a good deal more malleable than iOSX, jailbroken or not. Furthermore I don't think Google will ever reach the level control-freakishness of Apple. And that's at least something. Granted, it's not much. I'm not technically proficient enough to explain what makes Android more transparent and fun to use, but in my experience it is.

p.s. the one thing I would LOVE to see one day is an android handset crafted with the same level of quality and aesthetics as the iPhone, but it would have to look nothing like one.

 

[chrlswltrs]

You bring up a very good point. I admit, I want to hate Apple. I despise their business practices and their dumbed down OS. But they do excel at quality, user-friendly hardware, and as lame as their OS is for a computer nerd type, it's probably better in the eyes of the average user.

However the Android OS still seems a good deal more malleable than iOSX, jailbroken or not. Furthermore I don't think Google will ever reach the level control-freakishness of Apple. And that's at least something. Granted, it's not much. I'm not technically proficient enough to explain what makes Android more transparent and fun to use, but in my experience it is.

p.s. the one thing I would LOVE to see one day is an android handset crafted with the same level of quality and aesthetics as the iPhone, but it would have to look nothing like one.

The problem is that it isn't google doing this, it is the manufacturers. Google has created a fantastic and open OS that is constantly improving, it is the manufacturers using Android in there handsets that are locking it up. Google has already said they will not control or influence how manufacturers implement Android, whether it is locked down, or stock, whatever.

I am just hoping for a Nexus2. When that was released it was the best looking phone on the market (IMO), more advanced than anything else that was available at the time, and more open. I just hope that Google sees how manufacturers are ruining Android and they decide to release a phone again, this time on a real carrier, not Tmo though. If they do, I will be buying it release day!

 

[chrlswltrs]

BTW, I don't want to hate Apple. I am really glad they made the iPhone. It revolutionized cell phones. I got mine on release day, then I had a 3GS because when it was released it was still the best phone available. Their innovation has just been hampered because they refuse to open up to innovation. Soon Android may end up the same way, then where will we turn to see real innovation?

 

[jroc]

The advantage over iOS is out the box Android is still way more customizable, still has things iOS doesnt. Its even more customizable with root and unlocked bootloaders but still out the box Android is nothing to sneeze at.

I know how some of us feel now that they are locking down the phones tighter. But its not like these werent good phones to begin with. Think about the general public that doesnt root and run custom ROMs. If they were having such bad experiences with Android phones the market share wouldnt be where it is today. They woulda stuck with WinMo, Blackberry, Palm.

The reason why the market share is where it is today is because Android and the phones it runs on is good.

 

[ElasticNinja]

You have brought up one of my biggest issues with Android (and iOS)
THEMES
As a Symbian user it really makes me laugh when I see users having "Rooted [insert Android device here] w/ BGX THEME"
I am amazed why neither Apple nor Google has yet implemented a way of switching themes easily (ya'know without voiding the warrantee and turning your phone off )

Bada and Symbian can do this, why not Android
Don't get me wrong, I would prefer iOS4 or Froyo anyday to any of the planned Symbian iterations, but this is a major missing feature

 

[snapper.fishes]

You got that right. I used to love creating themes for my SE K750i phone. Was quite disappointed when I realised that I can't do that for an Android phone.

 

[baillou2]

The problem is that it isn't google doing this, it is the manufacturers. Google has created a fantastic and open OS that is constantly improving, it is the manufacturers using Android in there handsets that are locking it up. Google has already said they will not control or influence how manufacturers implement Android, whether it is locked down, or stock, whatever.

I am just hoping for a Nexus2. When that was released it was the best looking phone on the market (IMO), more advanced than anything else that was available at the time, and more open. I just hope that Google sees how manufacturers are ruining Android and they decide to release a phone again, this time on a real carrier, not Tmo though. If they do, I will be buying it release day!

Actually from what I've read it's the phone companies that are the real evil ones. I guess I shouldn't complain about Google. If only they WERE a mobile carrier. That would be awesome. I don't know what the wireless landscape will look like 10 years from now, but I sincerely hope AT&T, T-mobile etc. are by and large out of the picture.

 

[baillou2]

You have brought up one of my biggest issues with Android (and iOS)
THEMES
As a Symbian user it really makes me laugh when I see users having "Rooted [insert Android device here] w/ BGX THEME"
I am amazed why neither Apple nor Google has yet implemented a way of switching themes easily (ya'know without voiding the warrantee and turning your phone off )

Bada and Symbian can do this, why not Android
Don't get me wrong, I would prefer iOS4 or Froyo anyday to any of the planned Symbian iterations, but this is a major missing feature

It would be nice to see Nokia jump into the game. I think they could do better than Android or Apple. I heard something about Nokia hiring some new exec type who is going to get the Nokia smart phone going in earnest. And to be fair they already make great smartphones, just not crazy app-friendly ones that anyone hears about.

 

[chrlswltrs]

Actually from what I've read it's the phone companies that are the real evil ones. I guess I shouldn't complain about Google. If only they WERE a mobile carrier. That would be awesome. I don't know what the wireless landscape will look like 10 years from now, but I sincerely hope AT&T, T-mobile etc. are by and large out of the picture.

Just imagine how awesome a Nexus2 from Google (as a carrier) would be with a data only plan and all calls are VOIP through GV.

Oh well, a man can dream

 

[baillou2]

Just imagine how awesome a Nexus2 from Google (as a carrier) would be with a data only plan and all calls are VOIP through GV.

Oh well, a man can dream

You have been to the mountaintop, and you have seen the promised land.

 

[Thefoodman52]

Yea... right... Google being their own wireless carrier and cell phone provider... that's too perfect... something would hav eto be a catch... like... you don't get updates but every other year or something bad like stupid high rates for service and it's slower than edge

 

[dan330]

here is the thing....

MONEY makes everything happen or not happen..
all companies want one thing! profit!

all phone makers (company division) have one major way to make money.. sell their phones! they want to make and market and have people tied to their phones.. and upgrades to more of their phones.

Carriers want money through subscriptions to service.. and people wanting better phones.

these companies will try to close the eco systems so that consumers will be locked in some how...

Google is uniquely positioned to have a major advantage! They make money one major way.... billions... via their online search engine..and services!!!!! They have resources and talent to push more users to their online services. They saw that smartphones where the way of the future computing... and more user searches. So.. they designed a new OS for phones that are geared 100% to google and online services. This development is fully funded by a company that dont care about making money from the OS. So they can give it away for free..completely free. because it will generate more users online google searches, that generate more $$$...for GOOGLE!!! the market apps profit..is cream on top!
Google will never want to be a carrier of cell service.. that would be a change from their core business!

so google will never want thier OS to be closed, but they dont want to stop companies trying to sell phones. they will not stop Dev from hacking and improving. I am 100% sure that they monitor all forums and Developers. See what the market/public want and quickly incorporate it into the next OS upgrade. This is how google android has improved so fast in a short time!

Apple can only make money if you buy more of their stuff... so they will want you to be tied .. locked... hand cuffed to their eco system. they dont like it that you can do things for free...if they can make money on something.. they will stop it and sell you an app for that! Apps are more expensive on IOS than android.. and from the same developer (think about that)! From phones to apps.. to service (their has to be a back door deal with carriers and apple).. Jobs will get his share of the Apple!

with all this... i highly doubt that android will be as closed as apple.. and apple will never be open as android!

 

[xzillerationer]

I used to really want a G2. Then I found out about that chip that destroys root. I was the same about the DX and D2, I wanted them, but when I found out they had a locked down bootloader, I hated it. Google should lay down the hammer, and tell manufacturers not to try to stop them from rooting. G2 WILL achieve root, a permanent root, and eventually custom roms. This will happen due to the dedicated Android community. I say, sure, HTC is probably the BEST manufacturer for Android right now, but, I lost respect for them when they released the G2. It <i>could've</i> been the BEST Android phone. No, not a top competitor, not in the top 10, nor even the top 5. THE BEST. But, they ruined it. HTC blew it. The G2 has amazing hardware, the best software, a full qwerty keyboard, everything. It's one amazing phone-or at least it would be. HTC dun goof'd.

 

[ElasticNinja]

I say, sure, HTC is probably the BEST manufacturer for Android right now, but, I lost respect for them when they released the G2.

Exact same here
Its disgraceful
You know, HTC messin with the HBoot was one thing, but this, its *ugh*.
I agree Google WILL have to lay down the law, they now have manafacturers tied enough into Android to do so...

 

[AmneonX]

You guys all forget that only a portion of the android users root. My first android was the Droid X and it does exactly what I want it to right out of the box. Not to say that I haven't thought about rooting it, but I haven't yet.

I have read countless rants about locked bootloaders and anti root protocols. People forget that not everyone roots, just like not everyone jailbreaks their iphones. The OEMs are still going to make bank off of all their devices.

 

[Thefoodman52]

They're not going to make more bank by locking out the developers and users who root though, they'll be losing sales, and lots from us. What do they gain out of locking out the phones?? Guarantees that nothing can be updated manually through ROM's and kernels, so the users are forced to buy the latest and greatest to get what they want?? That ain't how it works... lol. We get what we want one way or another, and if we can't get it, oh well.

 

[chrlswltrs]

They're not going to make more bank by locking out the developers and users who root though, they'll be losing sales, and lots from us. What do they gain out of locking out the phones?? Guarantees that nothing can be updated manually through ROM's and kernels, so the users are forced to buy the latest and greatest to get what they want?? That ain't how it works... lol. We get what we want one way or another, and if we can't get it, oh well.

Actually, they don't make that much it is the carriers that make more by not allowing rooting. They get paid to have bloatware on there that we just get rid of plus we can do things like tether without paying their high prices for limited data on our unlimited data plans.

 

[MdX MaxX]

Despite the fact that manufacturers are trying harder to lock down Android, it's still way more flexible and dev-friendly than iOS.

The biggest problem with iOS is its dependence on a PC or Mac. I hate iTunes and Quicktime with a passion, but until I finally switch to Android, I'm stuck using it for any sort of access to my iPhone.

In terms of apps, devs have tons more to work with. I hate iOS's completely detached nature; I love how Android allows apps to integrate with the OS and with other apps. Plus, the Android Market has tether apps, emulators, homescreen/lockscreen replacements, widgets, and many other apps that would never be allowed on iOS. Heck, the Market even has rooting apps.

All in all, no amount of manufacturer intervention can reduce Android to the same level as Jobs's sheltered ecosystem called iOS.

And, in my opinion, it's stupid to get angry at manufacturers for disallowing rooting and voiding warranties. Google offers Android free to those who want to put it on their own devices. The beauty of it is that the manufacturers can do with it as they please. I think the Nexus One, G1, and other phones have spoiled us into thinking we deserve freely modifiable phones. Heck, I would love it if everything was unlocked and developers had complete freedom, but that's not how phones work right now.

 

[nitsuj17]

honestly i think a lot of what makes android so appealing and is jumping sales right now is the fact that only at&t has the iphone. I think when/if verizon gets the iphone you will see a lot of people who would have gotten a droid x or other droid will jump on that.

most of us here see the true beauty and openess of android (sadly motorola and possibly htc don't) and made a decision to pick that over ios given the choice. The vast majority of people don't know what root even is or would do it if they did.

I've ranted about motorola locking down the x, and consequently dumped mine. Even though the hardware isnt as great I love my htc incredible and am addicted to overclocking and rom flashing. Originally I got my inc as a "backup" phone after selling my blackberries off, just so i could see what everyone was clamoring about, and within a day had shelved my dx. Once it was declared that the bootloader was locked for good i dumped it off on ebay (like a good many people here). I intend now to pick up a fascinate to also use as well.

but back to the original point (i think) of this thread, i think a jailbroken iphone vs a rooted but bootlocked android phone is probably a push software wise, it just depends on your hardware preference. If you prefer apples "retina" display (which having seen and used on a friends iphone i wasn't overly impressed with) go with an iphone or if you want a mammoth screen or physical keyboard then a locked android.

 

[dan330]

I've ranted about motorola locking down the x, and consequently dumped mine. Even though the hardware isnt as great I love my htc incredible and am addicted to overclocking and rom flashing. Originally I got my inc as a "backup" phone after selling my blackberries off, just so i could see what everyone was clamoring about, and within a day had shelved my dx. Once it was declared that the bootloader was locked for good i dumped it off on ebay (like a good many people here). I intend now to pick up a fascinate to also use as well.
.

I thought there was a work around the bootloader. so they never found a solution???

 

[IOWA]

We need to email the shit out of google and voice our concerns.

An open Letter to Google regarding root access.

 

[ElasticNinja]

Personally when I get an Android, simply put, I need root
Why?
I need to install Droid Wall because I'm a pre-pay user, and I cant afford data use

 

[nitsuj17]

I thought there was a work around the bootloader. so they never found a solution???

nope. its seemed like for a day or two that it could be cracked at anytime but then the devs hit an impasse and declared the method they were attempted dead. the only "solution" available and i dont know that anyone is actually working on it is the milestone 2nd boot process but they can't get the radio to work with that, so basically it wont just turn your phone into a pda.