Epic Competition?

[badankles]

Now that the Evo Shift is official, it seems to be a good 4G slider option. It would be a tough decision between it and the Epic, do you agree?

 

[xxxsteveoxxx]

I think its more of an enrty device. The Epic is the most feature packed phone on sprint. The shift is good for heavy texters but without the front cam, hummingbird proccesor of SAMOLED screen they are in diff ball parks. Def not a threat.

 

[xTmDarren]

I think its more of an enrty device. The Epic is the most feature packed phone on sprint. The shift is good for heavy texters but without the front cam, hummingbird proccesor of SAMOLED screen they are in diff ball parks. Def not a threat.

I agree with everything he said.. if anything they just released a 3rd place 4g phone.. It would of been a lot closer if they would of added a better screen and a front facing camera..

 

[-javier-]

also that thing runs on 800mhz.

 

[dan330]

that 800 mhz cpu.. can run with the epic..

and with the overclock to more than 1600mhz...
it will embarrass the hummingbird...

epic has the screen and the front facing camera.
everything else will be in favor for the shift.

 

[Caloy]

Can you actually oc any chip to 100% without any active cooling? I can imagine wasting the processor within seconds if you overclock it to twice stock.

 

[EarlyMon]

^Normally, agree, this is a recipe for failure. However, weird and amazing things are being done with this processor in other phones (see Shift specs) and we know that the Evo has attracted a big dev community - so this whole overclock thing is an instant assumption. (Prolly will happen - but it's not there just this instant.)

Before sweating overclocking - it's running Froyo right out of the box and that doesn't suck.

I'm sure this pup will start the usual round of fun debates and this won't be the first or last (there's already one like it in the Evo forum), but personally, I see its big appeal as for those that want a smaller, less expensive phone than either the Evo or the Epic.

And why should people wanting a nicer phone be forced into the Epic/Evo budget range if that hurts, or into a larger form factor if that's not right for them?

It comes with a 2GB SD card and it's form factor makes it a nice upgrade for everyone stuck with the lower-end Sammies - like the Moment or Intercept - or good for an HTC Hero upgrade.

I think the big deal on this phone isn't HTC vs. Samsung or SAMOLED vs. LCD or any of that.

I think it's higher quality in small vs. big - and that's an essential factor for choice for a lot of folks, so I say it's an Android win and a Sprint win.

For fun, I'll vote anyway - the Shift beats the Epic because it's blue. That's about as important as any other factor, right?

And if it's running the new Sense (too soon to hear that yet) then it's got the potential to grab even more people.

Sprint already has an Epic, so they didn't need another one. They needed a Shift. Finally, smaller doesn't mean not as good.

 

[pastafarian]

I'm anxious to see the real people reviews on this one. I'm puzzled with the 2gb card choice, what would a 8gb cost them? $0.50 more? 2gb storage is inadequate for a modern smartphone in this price category. Most of the people buying a shift should budget an additional $10-$30 or so to upgrade to a 8 or 16gb card. Overall the Epic will be the superior device, but the Shift should seriously eat into its sales.

 

[dan330]

@ pastafarian .. I agree 100%... i was at fry's yesterday... 16GB Class10 for $28 and 8GB Class 6 for $13


FTW... EVO shift!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
for the overclock to double.. try more!!!
hold on to your seats....

2000 mhz...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpLju9341v8

 

[MannyrtFresh]

Honestly speaking the only reason the New Evo Shift might do better is because its cheaper than the Epic 4G but as xxxsteveoxxx said, it is more of an entry device and the Epic is more for us heavy users that will take full advantage of its capabilities.

 

[dbpaddler]

It's competition if you don't mind the smaller screen and lack of a dedicated number row. I wouldn't go back to a sub 4" screen though. And hopefully bezels will get smaller and smaller to where a 4" screen will fit in something the size of the Shift, and those of us with an Epic or Evo will be enjoying a 4.5" or greater screen in the same size casing.

 

[dan330]

^^^ I agree about the screen size.

the shift would be more of a contender for me.. if they had 4" on that same size.
i also was wishing for front camera and the Z hinge.

if it is, what it is.. as rumored.. I will stick with my EVO (for screen size). i am still in my 30 day period for 10 more days.

 

[dbpaddler]

that's why I don't get the Evo name on it. Just call it the Shift. I know plenty that will be happy with the Shift as they go away from their Moment and could care less about the things I care about in a phone. I also don't agree with Manny or Steve about it being an entry level device. That's what the Transform and the LG and Sanyo's are for. Outside of the lack of a front facing camera, I don't see how it's not a premium device.

 

[dan330]

^^ true... I dont think it is an entry level.. and it getting 4G and the associated $10/month fee. the performance on this device will be at the top of any tests.

 

[EarlyMon]

that's why I don't get the Evo name on it.

Obvious marketing tie-in. I have a sister in her sixties who came to visit - absolute Luddite, avoids all non-sewing tech, asked if it's time to get a cell phone. I pulled mine out of my pocket - first words, and I'm not making this up - "Wow! Is that an Evo? I've heard of those..." and to my surprise a string of platititudes. Turns out her quilting circle has sat around wondering what an Evo is like.

I asked her how she heard of it, and she looked at me like I was from Mars - and that was back in August.

I think it's gonna make it easier for store reps:

I want your top phone: Epic/keyboard or Evo/no keyboard?

I want a better slide-out keyboard: Top of the line, or next one down?

I want an Evo: Big or little?

Outside of the lack of a front facing camera, I don't see how it's not a premium device.

Finally, smaller doesn't mean not as good.

(finally - as in, at last)

 

[Stoney62]

^Finally, smaller doesn't mean not as good.

That's not what she says. You had to know that was coming.

 

[EarlyMon]

Normally, I'd mod that out, but I so had it coming that it's staying this time. XD

And no - phones is such srsly bizness - I never saw it.

 

[swanysto]

I have already accepted the fact that cell phone makers are money hungry, and that they are going to keep coming out with better phones, and that my Epic will not be top of the line in a few months.

Whether this phone is better or not is up to the person who is thinking about buying it. I am not going to worry about it though, cause I LOVE this phone. I finally found a ROM that does everything I want and more. My GPS works, my wireless tether works, it is snappy as can be, I don't have any FC's, and I get decent battery life.

 

[EarlyMon]

FTW... EVO shift!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
for the overclock to double.. try more!!!
hold on to your seats...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpLju9341v8

Evo:

Here's something I did just for fun. It's not sustainable for day-to-day use, but I'll be looking into options to make it sustainable.

Epic:

Viper Rom 2.6 with lagfix

Those were the first two I found casually.

First - free Quadrant ain't so great.

Second - give the dev community a chance, they can work wonders on any good platform.

Third - as long as things are within range of each other, the benchmarks don't matter all that much.

This competition - totally artificial.

 

[dbpaddler]

I'd agree on the marketing tie in if "Evo" was the equivalent to "Droid" or if HTC plans to call their Sprint Android lineup "Evo" and have all the sub names. I'd also agree if they knew how to market it, but they still don't. I don't care what people have said about the evo. They are bordering on Palm dumbness there. I think Evo with a keyboard, not an Incredible with a keyboard when I hear Evo Shift. And with no front camera, smaller screen & lack of hdmi out it's really not its little brother. It's more of a cousin. So if they want the marketing tie in, try and do it right on all fronts.

Not taking a shot at you EarlyMon, just my own opinion on it.

And they can take the smaller form factor and throw in a 1500mah battery yet couldn't fit a larger battery into the Evo? c'mon. Though the Evo is heavy enough as it is.

 

[EarlyMon]

The Evo was what it was - they were clearing out 65 nm chip stock using the Desire as the build platform - it was an integration effort, not a new development effort. A number of compromises but effective in one very critical way last June - time to market.

And I'd imagine the Evo moniker on the Shift wasn't just a Sprint idea - I'd bet that HTC had a lot to do with that negotiation.

The Evo has been a commercial success.

 

[dbpaddler]

I do know if it had a 4" screen, I'd consider buying it for myself. But I'm running Quantum 2.7 on my Epic now, and it's just smooth as butter. So Epic + Dev Community + 4" SAMOLED + more roomy keyboard will keep me happy till this summer.

 

[dan330]

Evo:



Epic:



Those were the first two I found casually.

First - free Quadrant ain't so great.

Second - give the dev community a chance, they can work wonders on any good platform.

Third - as long as things are within range of each other, the benchmarks don't matter all that much.

This competition - totally artificial.

OK... i will bite... how the hell did the EVO get that score? taht is totally awesome!

what did they overclock that too? or was the Quadrant test manipulated??

 

[EarlyMon]

OK... i will bite... how the hell did the EVO get that score? taht is totally awesome!

what did they overclock that too? or was the Quadrant test manipulated??

No no, look up the user, he's a kernel dev and the score's honest. (I don't know if his final, stable rev of that is faster, same or slower - like I said - first graph I had laying about.)

I passed along that another phone was scoring high by moving cache/data to the SD card on an ext4 partition and he looked into it.

Not being a trivial mod because of when the SD card is mounted in the boot sequence, he spent a great many hours tuning just those parameters to and fro.

I'd have to go by memory, but typical Evo overclock is 1.15 GHz, some units can survive a little bit higher.

Remember the model we discussed earlier:

You run apps brought up by a launcher running on Android OS running on a kernel running on a motherboard with a lot of important silicon, of which the processor is just one piece.

That score came from a kernel and memory attack on the problem - not simple, raw, processor overclocking.

Proves the point I've been making since about my second day here - the processor has to be good - but - after that, it's just not the whole phone.

PS - I know this sounds crazy to some of you - but an Epic score of 2500 or so I find to be order of magnitude equal to - in other words, basically equal to - the two Evo +3000 scores - Quadrant just isn't the whole ball of wax.

 

[dan330]

yeah... I know test are not the end proof to any performance discussions... but they are a good litmus test.

I can run my evo at 1190 mhz.. all day with no issues... but have it underclocked to 614 mhz for battery savings. Dont need the power for 99% of what I do day-to-day