Does the US discriminate against Huawei (a moved discussion)

[Jazziette]

oops! Just found this:

Huawei Unveils Android Smartphone, Tablet | News & Opinion | PCMag.com


Fresh from the MWC in Barcelong (2 hours ago):
(Mobile World Congresss)
BARCELONA—Huawei on Tuesday unveiled two Android-based devices, the Huawei Ideos X3 smartphone and the Ideos S7 Slim tablet.
The company also announced a plug-and-link data card for mobile broadband and a new wireless modem with intelligent routing here at Mobile World Congress.
The Ideos S7 Slim tablet includes a 7-inch capacitive touch screen with an 800-by-480 display. It supports 720p HD video, and includes 3G, Wi-Fi and Bluetooth connectivity options. There are also options for SMS and MSS, as well as 3G voice and video. It has a 3.2-megapixel camera.
The Ideos S7 will run Android 2.2 at launch on a Qualcomm Snapdragon 1-GHz processor.
Huawei said the Ideos S7 Slim will debut globally in April. Pricing was not revealed.
The Ideos X3, meanwhile, is an ultra-slim smartphone with a 3.2-inch capacitive HVGA curved touch screen; Huawei said it is the thinnest device in the 3.2-inch range on the market. Its front-facing camera is 3.2 megapixels, and the device will support up to 16GB. It has a Micro USB 2.0 port and 3.5mm jack, and support for 802.11b/g/n.
It runs Android 2.3 Gingerbread, and will be available in Japan via Softbank Mobile starting in March. It will expand to Europe, China, the Middle East, Russia, and Southeast Asia in mid-2011. Huawei said it will be priced below $200.
The Huawei HiLink is a plug-and-link data card that connects to broadband on-the-go; Huawei said users can be hooked up to the Internet in as little as 15 seconds after plugging into the USB port. It will be available in Europe in the second quarter, priced between $100 and $150.
Finally, the Huawei Mobile Wi-Fi Smart Pro is a wireless model that selects the best high-speed connection available. It supports iOS, Android, Windows, and Mac and provides up to four hours of surfing time. It will be released in select markets in the second quarter with an LTE version scheduled for the third quarter. It will be priced between $200 and $270.


~~~~~~~~~


The X3 is going to come with 2.3 Gingerbread. That sheds an entirely different light on the phone. Hmmm....


But it doesn't sound like it's going to come to the U.S. at all. I just wonder if Huawei totally put out with the shabby and unfair treatment they have been getting from the U.S. Government. If Obama quashes their California acquisition, based on recommendations from the Pentagon that Huawei poses a 'security threat' to the United States, then I wouldn't blame Huawei for pulling all their products from here.


The sad thing is that there isn't another manufacture around who doesn't totally want to rip-off the consumer. Huawei is the first to offer us products at a fair and reasonable price.


IMO that's why they want to get rid of them. So they can continue to charge these astronomically high and absurd prices for mobile phones, etc that are made dirt cheap.



Yes...I am upset over the way Huawei is being treated.

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[BlastGT1]

That's likely going to impact other phone carriers if Huawei gets locked out. Say goodbye to a lot of budget phones, since a lot of them are rebranded.

I really would love to know just how Huawei is a national security threat, other than the fact that cheap merchandise from there keeps corporations here from creating jobs here.

 

[Treydude]

I really would love to know just how Huawei is a national security threat, other than the fact that cheap merchandise from there keeps corporations here from creating jobs here.

If by creating jobs here you mean other cell phone manufactures? I REALLY do not think any cell phones are made in the US.

Who knows what the deal is..Same thing happened with the Playstation 1 2 and 3 when they were released.

 

[BlastGT1]

I meant imported product as a whole, not just cell phones. China in general being a monetary threat because of cheap goods. Hey, it sounded right when I was typing it!

 

[Jazziette]

Breaking News!!!

Huawei refuses to back down to U.S. Council

Snippet:

February 18, 2011, 4:49 am Mergers & Acquisitions

The Big Chill: Huawei Imbroglio Puts Countries at Odds

By CHRIS V. NICHOLSON

Jacob Kepler/Bloomberg News The Huawei Technologies booth at the 2011 International Consumer Electronics Show.
A move by the United States to block the Chinese company Huawei Technologies from buying 3Leaf Systems shows that sometimes an acquisition is more than just an acquisition. This one is part of a wider standoff between Washington and Beijing that may have a chilling effect on cross-border deals.
A China ministry spokesman said Thursday that the United States was using national securities concerns to impede Chinese deals and harming relations between the two countries.


more

 

[Jazziette]

I find this highly interesting since nearly everything you buy is Made in China anymore. And that's because U.S. Manufacturers (like Mattel Toy Company for example) are outsourcing everything to China.

Nothing is Made in America anymore except WEAPONS!

It does seem unfair to me because it was actually Republican Representatives who brought this matter up to begin with. Does anyone else think it is highly coincidental that this happened just after Huawei filed a lawsuit against Motorola to halt the contract with Nokia because of what Huawei alleged was IP theft?

Motorola has been making large donations to these Reps campaigns.

Huawei has announced worldwide that they believe the end user is paying far too much for their handsets and as the 2nd largest telecom manufacturer in the world they have the potential of being a real force to be dealt with here in the U.S.

The competition wants to keep the prices up!

Huawei wants to make the prices fair.

So...the U.S. says they are a security threat to keep them out?

This is just wrong!

 

[BlastGT1]

The real truth behind the Chinese dealings is more along the lines of learning their lesson about intellectual property lawsuits from the best there is: The MPAA, RIAA, and the politicians in their back pockets.

China is using IP litigation to get more leverage and get more business of their own, and suddenly the US politicians are having to deal with the unexpected side effects of trying to ram draconian IP laws down the world's throats. Sucks when someone takes what you taught them and uses it against you in ways you never thought of doing yourself.

 

[Gmash]

Ok, the problem the government has with huawei has nothing to do with cell phones. The company huawei wants to buy is into cloud computing. The US doesn't want huawei to have the tech this company has because they allege huawei is owned by the chinese government. (huawei denies this). Who's telling the truth? Hell if I know. I don't trust any of these government types. My point is, it's complicated, and theres a lot more going on behind the scenes than we know. I do know the chinese can play hardball with the best of them, thats why they have been around for thousands of years. I totally agree our politicians are bought and paid for, but their owners may not be as obvious as it seems.

 

[EarlyMon]

The story's got some interesting spin.

It's been US policy for years to control anything related to foreign investment in anything even getting close to our media - and with China being a tech-export controlled country, there are even more hurdles.

CFIUS is an arm of the Treasury - it exists to attempt to make these case-by-case decisions.

The CFIUS published statement is nowhere online yet, it was the Chinese who first took it up with their intelligence side, and on our side, a single new source crossed the two, and now this is becoming common knowledge.

And in the foreign trade game, this sort of posturing is really quite normal - both sides are laden with facts and propaganda, and that's just going in.

And this idea that Hauwei wants the world to have cheaper handsets - why? Because they're on the side of good and light? No - because a lot of stuff is made in their country and with more middlemen between them and the consumers, end prices are driven up and they're not getting their lick of the cream. So - rather than jack up prices for market-driven profits, they're pushing for lower pricing and an insanely higher production volume ability to increase profits.

Western capitalism meets Asian thinking, more so than perhaps hoist by our own IP and lobbying petards. Perhaps only, tho.

Second half of this vid may be of interest to some.

Asia Today: Dong Devalued; Huawei Deal in Peril - Exchange - WSJ

And whether Huawei is owned by the Chinese government or not - that's Western thinking. Asian countries have a much, much more flexible idea of what ownership means than we do.

PS - The US still makes lots of stuff besides nukes - way lots.

 

[Jazziette]

That's interesting about the Vietnamese Dong, Early. Especially considering the fact that the US dollar is basically not worth the paper it's printed on. LOL

As for products produced in this country anymore....let's suffice it to say that while there may still be some other than weapons, what we actually produce and import is a mere fraction of what we used to, since almost all the big companies are outsourcing.

We do still make automobiles, kinda. LOL

And as far as Huawei being the "good and light" .... well, to be honest I did read where the CEO of Huawei was quoted as saying he felt the end user was having to pay too much and that they (Huawei) wanted to make the price more fair. (I haven't seen evidence of any American manufacturer doing the same.) Supposedly this is why they came out with the Ascend, the world's first affordable smart phone. Cricket was the first to get this phone and it premiered in November 2010, for $109.00 (on sale with $149 being retail). That's cheap for any Android.

And it's a very good product to boot.

Huawei is set to produce some very hot new numbers here in 2011 and not just in handsets, but in tablets and modems and other related devices all at lower prices than their competition.

I may sound Anti-American, and I'm really not. I love my country. I just don't agree with the greedy guys who run it. I don't really know who the 'good guys' are anymore, Early. I am no long just American in my thinking. I have become very globalized. LOL



Thanks so much for your feedback. I found it really interesting.

PS....Huawei did back down on the 3Leaf deal. They made the announcement yesterday.

 

[Jazziette]

The real truth behind the Chinese dealings is more along the lines of learning their lesson about intellectual property lawsuits from the best there is: The MPAA, RIAA, and the politicians in their back pockets.

China is using IP litigation to get more leverage and get more business of their own, and suddenly the US politicians are having to deal with the unexpected side effects of trying to ram draconian IP laws down the world's throats. Sucks when someone takes what you taught them and uses it against you in ways you never thought of doing yourself.

There's a lot of truth in what you say, Blast. The one conclusion I have reached after much research is that they are probably all guilty of IP theft. Huawei has been in the background until lately even though they were the first in much of the technology we hear so much about today.

Apparently the fact that they are not willing to remain in the background isn't being well received by those companies they have partnered with in the past. i.e. Motorola, Nokia, Samsung, et al

Mid 2010 Motorola slapped a lawsuit on Huawei for IP theft, which was settled out of court. Now Huawei is suing Motorola.

Whatever the case may be it looks like Huawei is being more aggressive and is determined to be a major force to be reckoned with.

 

[EarlyMon]

Glad you found my insights worthwhile. Being an R&D member of the semiconductor industry and living in Asia for half of every year until recently has certainly opened my eyes on a few things, especially global trade and the propaganda surrounding it. I was in China just before they sent gunboats and nuclear subs into the straights and stood on the ramparts in Taiwan watching them approach, reading a Chinese newpaper outlining how the nuclear subs missile strike capabilities were necessary to secure freedom for the Taiwanese, especially their industries.

And I can't resist mentioning that in addition to cars, we still manage to make a few CPUs, hard drives, light processors and other minor toys.

But I digress.

I'm excited about the news you posted because it's a clear indication that Huawei is taking our market very seriously and - in my opinion - there's always room for quality products at competitive prices and many very fine things are made in China.

BTW - would you be able to tell me about Huawei's existing US infrastructure, or direct me to some links? Via PM is certainly OK, I wouldn't want to waste too much off-topic bandwidth here - unless you feel that it would help raise Huawei awareness, then of course I'm all for it.

PS - On the topic of IP theft, many of you know that Chinese thinking is truly different on this.

Yes, some are thieves pure and simple - but - many more simply don't have the Western-insular viewpoint on that.

And - following IP lawsuits in the semiconductor industry is like quantum physics - it's not only stranger than you imagine - it's stranger than you can imagine.

 

[Jazziette]

Ok, the problem the government has with huawei has nothing to do with cell phones. The company huawei wants to buy is into cloud computing. The US doesn't want huawei to have the tech this company has because they allege huawei is owned by the chinese government. (huawei denies this). Who's telling the truth? Hell if I know. I don't trust any of these government types. My point is, it's complicated, and theres a lot more going on behind the scenes than we know. I do know the chinese can play hardball with the best of them, thats why they have been around for thousands of years. I totally agree our politicians are bought and paid for, but their owners may not be as obvious as it seems.

Yeah Gmash, there is much more going on behind the scenes politically. LOL

As far as Huawei being a security threat, they have opened their doors for the U.S. to come in and check on everything to prove that they are not connected to the Chinese military or the government. The U.S.wanted transparency and Huawei offered it to them and they were still turned down.

It does look like the U.S. is discouraging Chinese investment, as the Chinese Ministry has claimed.



Thing is...who needs who the most?

 

[EarlyMon]

Yeah Gmash, there is much more going on behind the scenes politically. LOL

As far as Huawei being a security threat, they have opened their doors for the U.S. to come in and check on everything to prove that they are not connected to the Chinese military or the government. The U.S.wanted transparency and Huawei offered it to them and they were still turned down.

It does look like the U.S. is discouraging Chinese investment, as the Chinese Ministry has claimed.



Thing is...who needs who the most?

You seem to have ignored my discussion regarding the security threat, and are advocating something that's neither realistic nor pertinent - specifically: that there's credibility to the idea that Huawei could be transparent.

That's flatly unpossible.

Totally off-topic, ok if you don't answer, just curious - have you ever been to Shanghai?

 

[Jazziette]

You seem to have ignored my discussion regarding the security threat, and are advocating something that's neither realistic nor pertinent - specifically: that there's credibility to the idea that Huawei could be transparent.

That's flatly unpossible.

Totally off-topic, ok if you don't answer, just curious - have you ever been to Shanghai?

I didn't mean to ignore it. I thought I did address that. I don't think they are a security threat at all. I think this is all politics, basically. JMHO LOL

As for if Huawei could be transparent I don't really know. They did open their doors. However, now they have backed down. I do find it difficult to believe that there is any company that big anywhere that has NO ties to the government. I think that just because the founder was once in the Chinese military is basically lame.

No, I have never been to Shanghai but I've been to Albuquerque.

Have you? (been to Shanghai?)

 

[EarlyMon]

Yep - and more than a few major cities in Asia, as I alluded to above, post 35.

They have better Asian food there than we get here - but we have a good Asian market in ABQ, so once in a while, I'm able to eat well.

Again, from the above post - anything on Huawei's structure here in the US you can share?

For example - HTC has a major R&D group here in the US.

Do you think Huawei has any that we've not heard of - or is planning one - or do you think they only have sales agents here?

 

[Jazziette]

From EarlyMon (black text)
My response (blue text)

Glad you found my insights worthwhile. Very much so. I appreciate knowledge and intelligence even when debating, which I don't feel we are doing. I feel we are exchanging ideas and I enjoy that. Being an R&D member of the semiconductor industry and living in Asia for half of every year until recently has certainly opened my eyes on a few things, especially global trade and the propaganda surrounding it. Very impressive. I was unaware of that, of course and happy that I am trading thoughts with someone who has firsthand experience and knowledge. I'm sure I can learn a lot from you. Huawei has a HUGE R&D department as you may already know. I was in China just before they sent gunboats and nuclear subs into the straights and stood on the ramparts in Taiwan watching them approach, reading a Chinese newpaper outlining how the nuclear subs missile strike capabilities were necessary to secure freedom for the Taiwanese, especially their industries. Well, I have stated that I didn't think that Huawei posed a security threat to the U.S. in their purchase of 3Leaf, but I am certainly not so naive to think that China could never be a threat to the U.S. or the world in fact. I do give the Chinese more credit than wanting to destroy the world, which would more than likely be the result of a nuclear war, but I was unaware that China had developed nuclear weapons at this time. It does seem implausible that with their expertise in technology they haven't. In fact, I have often wondered how North Korea advanced so quickly in this area and pondered on China's involvement. I seriously can't blame any country for wanting to have nuclear weapons.

Again...I don't want to come off as Un-American.

As for Taiwan, when the Chinese wanted to free the Taiwanese does this mean they wanted to reclaim Taiwan. Didn't Taiwan used to be Formosa and part of China? I suppose they still view Taiwan as 'theirs'. LOL It must have been an "interesting" mix of emotions for someone of your intellect to watch gunboats and subs approaching. I would very much love to hear (through whatever outlet) more about this experience from you.

And I can't resist mentioning that in addition to cars, we still manage to make a few CPUs, hard drives, light processors and other minor toys.

Yes .... okay I will concede this point. LOL

But I digress.

I'm excited about the news you posted because it's a clear indication that Huawei is taking our market very seriously and - in my opinion - there's always room for quality products at competitive prices and many very fine things are made in China.

BTW - would you be able to tell me about Huawei's existing US infrastructure, or direct me to some links? I can actually do more than that, Early. Their North American headquarters is located in Plano, TX and I have made contact (via phone) with their Director of Radio Technology there. Because we couldn't understand each other too well via phone we are emailing at this time. I'll PM you what I know currently. Via PM is certainly OK, I wouldn't want to waste too much off-topic bandwidth here - unless you feel that it would help raise Huawei awareness, then of course I'm all for it.

I have found my research into Huawei to be fascinating and will be happy to share some facts that I have found to be most interesting.

PS - On the topic of IP theft, many of you know that Chinese thinking is truly different on this.

I have personally never had any business dealing with the Chinese. But I do have a very good friend who was in the eyewear business for years and had close connections with them. He says they are very honorable in their dealings and consider a breach of trust to be one of the worst things a person (business) can do.

Yes, some are thieves pure and simple - but - many more simply don't have the Western-insular viewpoint on that.

I think I'll refrain from comment on this one. LOL

And - following IP lawsuits in the semiconductor industry is like quantum physics - it's not only stranger than you imagine - it's stranger than you can imagine.

I'm beginning to get the picture! hahaha

Thanks so much for your highly interesting perspective and intellect. I will be posting some links here soon that give a little more insight as to what Huawei has been up to here in the U.S. (as well as the world)

 

[BlastGT1]

The major reason I see for the US using any and all tactics to hold back the Chinese is that China isn't going to be long in surpassing the US in so many aspects as to become the strongest economic nation in the world. While we have to deal with lobbyists, politicians, and corporations who all want a piece of the pie here, China does not seem to have to put up with as much legal red tape.

China is the current threat to US dominance in the world, and they are aggressive at pushing their expansion. I look at it as a combination of paranoia, ignorance, and pride. I don't have any doubt that China has ulterior motives in a lot of things that they do, but show me a country of note that doesn't. It's popular worldwide to bash the US and talk about how corrupt its government is, but the simple fact is that anywhere there is power and money, you will find corruption. The fact there is, the US is a lot more open about what goes on in general (because of the media and the freedoms allowed) than almost any other nation on earth. Never think that, just because you don't hear or read about something, that it isn't happening. And by the same token, don't believe everything you read or hear, because that doesn't make it true.

 

[EarlyMon]

That was really a predictable move by CFIUS (arm of the Treasury, not the Pentagon) - that scrutiny and recommendation was pretty much standard operating procedure driven nuts by pundits.

What would have been news is if they'd recommended otherwise.

Each and every country has a financial ministry that effectively makes these same sort of decisions - with the same sort of outcome - every year.

It tends to come down to trade balance. Often, the impasse is overcome very simply: if you're going to own something on our soil, what can we own on yours?

It's only in this forum that this is gaining an extraordinary life with deeper meanings.

Again - there is no way for Huawei to be open, despite what they say. That had zero to do with anything. There is no way for any high-tech company to be open. That's just an industrial fact, everywhere. Who owns them has zilch to do with it.

This idea of an onslaught of quality products being withheld by your government is not reasonable.

And the idea of insisting that national security is involved as part of story is never new:

China's U.S. investments soar - Jul. 21, 2010

It's about the Benjamins, trade, treaties and politics:

Chinese Direct Investment in the United States, The Challenges Ahead | Location USA

?Rebalancing? Chinese Investment in the United States | The Heritage Foundation

We call it Occam's Razor - if you're in the plains of the Western US, and you hear hoofbeats behind you but didn't see the animal, don't expect that you missed a zebra sighting - it's more likely to have been a horse.

Same thing here.

The CFIUS recommendation and Huawei's subsequent decision to withdraw is going to affect their smartphone sales here by about 0.000000000%.

PS - I know that vid I posted earlier had the Vietnamese Dong in the title and at the beginning of the vid, but the second part on the dead deal wasn't bad.

 

[Jazziette]

That was really a predictable move by CFIUS (arm of the Treasury, not the Pentagon) - that scrutiny and recommendation was pretty much standard operating procedure driven nuts by pundits.

What would have been news is if they'd recommended otherwise.

Each and every country has a financial ministry that effectively makes these same sort of decisions - with the same sort of outcome - every year.

It tends to come down to trade balance. Often, the impasse is overcome very simply: if you're going to own something on our soil, what can we own on yours?

It's only in this forum that this is gaining an extraordinary life with deeper meanings.

Again - there is no way for Huawei to be open, despite what they say. That had zero to do with anything. There is no way for any high-tech company to be open. That's just an industrial fact, everywhere. Who owns them has zilch to do with it.

This idea of an onslaught of quality products being withheld by your government is not reasonable.

And the idea of insisting that national security is involved as part of story is never new:

China's U.S. investments soar - Jul. 21, 2010

Chinese Direct Investment in the United States, The Challenges Ahead | Location USA

?Rebalancing? Chinese Investment in the United States | The Heritage Foundation

We call it Occam's Razor - if you're in the plains of the Western US, and you hear hoofbeats behind you but didn't see the animal, don't expect that you missed a zebra sighting - it's more likely to have been a horse.

Same thing here.

The CFIUS recommendation and Huawei's subsequent decision to withdraw is going to affect their smartphone sales here by about 0.000000000%.

PS - I know that vid I posted earlier had the Vietnamese Dong in the title and at the end of the vid, but the second part on the dead deal wasn't bad.

Early, did you see this?

I must not be the only one who sees this as a form of obstruction.

China decries U.S. obstruction after Huawei drops bid | Reuters

I could swear I saw a Zebra!!!

LMAO!!!

 

[EarlyMon]

Reuter's job is to report what people say.

It in no way implies that what's being said is in any way, shape or form valid.

The zebra you saw was indeed horselike and black and white - but out here, we call that a painted pony.

 

[Jazziette]

Perhaps it was a Unicorn. LOL

However, I have a question to ask you. Do YOU believe from all you have experienced, etc., that Huawei poses a 'security threat' to the United States?

If this is truly the case then why is it that they continue to allow other Manufacturers to let Huawei actually make their phones, etc, for them only under different brand names?

This is where I have a problem. It looks very much to me that politics is at play here and pressure is being put on Huawei to keep them at bay.

Just the way I see it hon.

 

[BlastGT1]

<3 the Occam's Razor reference. And yes, this whole thing really isn't new. It plays out a million different ways in a million different places. In the end it all boils down to the money and/or the power, usually both.

 

[Jazziette]

Yes, Yes, Yes...on all counts!

He who has the gold makes the rules.

Ohhh....guess we know who has the gold don't we?

 

[EarlyMon]

Perhaps it was a Unicorn. LOL

However, I have a question to ask you. Do YOU believe from all you have experienced, etc., that Huawei poses a 'security threat' to the United States?

If this is truly the case then why is it that they continue to allow other Manufacturers to let Huawei actually make their phones, etc, for them only under different brand names?

This is where I have a problem. It looks very much to me that politics is at play here and pressure is being put on Huawei to keep them at bay.

Just the way I see it hon.

Again - I repeat myself - I just don't see why you're buying into this security threat thing at all.

It was China who turned this over to their security people - not the US.

Every word of it is simple propaganda - and it's good propaganda.

So - your next paragraph beginning with "If this is truly the case..." - you're never going to get a reply from me on that - because it was never established as truly the case.

All that's been established is what I've reported - it would have been news if CFIUS - a Treasury arm, not an intelligence arm - had advised differently in this case.

I've been clear, but you seem to think that you can repeat this question and the answer from me will change. It won't.

It didn't happen the way you're insisting that it did.

Yes, Yes, Yes...on all counts!

He who has the gold makes the rules.

Ohhh....guess we know who has the gold don't we?

China, actually, as do we and a few others.

Old economics was that economies could be built and grow.

Less-old economics was that wealth was a finite source.

New economics is that the old-old economics had it right in the first place.

Under Mao, the idea persisted that wealth was finite. Now - it's known differently.

But whenever they lose a deal, they pull out rhetoric from the 1960s.

Nothing to see here.

BTW - I'm scheduling to move these discussions to a new thread in our Political subforum - I'll post the forwarding link.

The interests here transcend a single phone, and new Ascend owners in this forum need not be subjected to politics just to learn about a great Android phone.