HTC vs. Samsung update issues (mod note - all new phones will improve on this)

[Arex]

I disagree that HTC phones have better build quality. I mean lets look at it this way, a chain is as strong as its weakest link. What usually breaks first in a phone is the screen. If the phone is lighter it will take less impact as it falls. The heavier it is, the more pressure is put on the screen. So what people may not like is the "Feel" of the phone or the "Lightness" but you can't generalize and say that the build quality is worse. Its not like they are being cheap on stuff, they are intentionally trying to make it lighter and thinner. And considering the SGS2's thinness you can put a case on it and it will still be thinner then the Evo 3d. If weight is an issue put an aluminum case and you got your weight back and it will still be thin.

Now as people complaining about Samsung not giving out updates in comparison to HTC. We have to remember that HTC had Froyo ahead of everyone else and Froyo was designed with the Snapdragon processor in mind. Now if you look at update history, you will notice that there were a few devices that took just as long for HTC to update. The ones they updated quickly were the snapdragon ones with the same CPU as the Nexus One. There are phones that are made by HTC in 2010 that will never get updates..such as the HTC Droid Eris for example. In comparison Samsung is updating all of their 2010 phones to Froyo.

Now if you look at how quickly HTC updated their first phone to Froyo and how quickly Samsung upgraded their first phone to Gingerbread the time frame is around the same. Wait till Ice Cream Sandwich comes out..both of them have a Nexus phone and both of them should have equal amount of time to get it out the door, that is when we can judge who updates better, in a fair race.

 

[ArmageddonX]

@Arex
You made some really good points in your first post. By the way, welcome to the forums. Especially the point on the two Nexus phones somewhat "racing" for ICS this fall/winter.

However, the only thing I take issue with is your argument that the build quality "winner" depends on how well the phone "falls" (or rather, "crashes")... hehe...

@aachterhof
No doubt the Photon will be a great phone. Keep in mind it'll probably have a locked bootloader, a PenTile display, and Motorblur. As long as those are not diminishing factors for you I think it'd be a great choice for anyone. As far as I understand the Tegra 2 1ghz is comparable to anything out or coming out here soon.

 

[sikclown]

I disagree that HTC phones have better build quality. I mean lets look at it this way, a chain is as strong as its weakest link. What usually breaks first in a phone is the screen. If the phone is lighter it will take less impact as it falls. The heavier it is, the more pressure is put on the screen. So what people may not like is the "Feel" of the phone or the "Lightness" but you can't generalize and say that the build quality is worse. Its not like they are being cheap on stuff, they are intentionally trying to make it lighter and thinner. And considering the SGS2's thinness you can put a case on it and it will still be thinner then the Evo 3d. If weight is an issue put an aluminum case and you got your weight back and it will still be thin.

Now as people complaining about Samsung not giving out updates in comparison to HTC. We have to remember that HTC had Froyo ahead of everyone else and Froyo was designed with the Snapdragon processor in mind. Now if you look at update history, you will notice that there were a few devices that took just as long for HTC to update. The ones they updated quickly were the snapdragon ones with the same CPU as the Nexus One. There are phones that are made by HTC in 2010 that will never get updates..such as the HTC Droid Eris for example. In comparison Samsung is updating all of their 2010 phones to Froyo.

Now if you look at how quickly HTC updated their first phone to Froyo and how quickly Samsung upgraded their first phone to Gingerbread the time frame is around the same. Wait till Ice Cream Sandwich comes out..both of them have a Nexus phone and both of them should have equal amount of time to get it out the door, that is when we can judge who updates better, in a fair race.

Personally I prefer HTC phones. They are not without their weaknesses and I think it all comes down to personal preference and opinion. I have never had a broken screen so I disagree on that being the first thing to go. Also HTC's support and maintenance releases have a far far better track record than Samsung. You can't include any of the Nexus devices because those are Google devices built by hardware vendors (Htc and Samsung) with Vanilla Android. When Google decides to push out a new version of Android those devices get it. The Evo for instance has had 7 updates (I could be off on that) and while not all of them have been Android upgrades we are currently on 2.3.3 so I can't complain. All that over a year period. I can't necessarily speak to Samsung's updating devices because I have never owned one, but I have friends who do nothing but bitch about the Samsung phones they have (Mostly the Galaxy line across several carriers and the Moment) and the how the updates always brick them, etc (their complaints not mine). Again it comes down to personal preference and experience.

 

[Arex]

@Arex
You made some really good points in your first post. By the way, welcome to the forums. Especially the point on the two Nexus phones somewhat "racing" for ICS this fall/winter.

However, the only thing I take issue with is your argument that the build quality "winner" depends on how well the phone "falls" (or rather, "crashes")... hehe...

Thanks,

Well the screen one way or the other is the first thing that will break. If it falls in a way that plastic would shatter, neither phones would make it as both phones have plastic. And screen would shatter too.

The cool part no one seems to realize about Samsung is if your phone breaks in any way, even fall damage. Samsung will warranty it with no questions asked. HTC will not.

What samsung really needs to work on is their communication skills (in the US at least), that is what makes people frustrated lol

But yes, ICS will be the true test..


Edit:

@sikclown - Considering Evo is on Sprint, Epic got around 7 updates as well I think. As for bricking phones, that was only canada. The others were soft bricks, aka Odin can fix them in 2 minutes. I mean don't tell me HTC never issued OTAs that brick phones.

People complain because they are outside their comfort zone, when you are used to something you begin to accept it, once you try something different and something goes wrong you take it much harsher then you would from something in your comfort zone. This happens to me too, I know I bought products all the time from some brands and got used to it and accepted the issues. Then at one time I swapped brands, one thing went wrong and I regretted switching. But after some thought I realized that I had issues before too, its just a psychological thing.

What else is do you have breaking when your phone falls? I mean sure you can have plastic break but both have plastic..again the chain is as strong as its weakest link.

 

[ArmageddonX]

Sikclown makes a good point that the Nexus phones are Google products and when updates are pushed is up to them. From that perspective HTC and Samsung would have nothing to do with when the updates hit the phones and ICS would not be a test in any way.

Also, I have never broken a screen on my phone. If you could share your experience as to how you came to the conclusion that the "(screen) is the first thing to break" I'd really appreciate it.

 

[EarlyMon]

Now as people complaining about Samsung not giving out updates in comparison to HTC. We have to remember that HTC had Froyo ahead of everyone else and Froyo was designed with the Snapdragon processor in mind. Now if you look at update history, you will notice that there were a few devices that took just as long for HTC to update. The ones they updated quickly were the snapdragon ones with the same CPU as the Nexus One. There are phones that are made by HTC in 2010 that will never get updates..such as the HTC Droid Eris for example. In comparison Samsung is updating all of their 2010 phones to Froyo.

I can see how you think that Froyo was designed for the Snapdragon but that is absolutely and completely false. Whoever started that chestnut simply made that up out of whole cloth.

If you want to look at history, it's really simple:

The European and Asian Samsung Galaxy S phones had Froyo slightly after the Evo got it.

The US versions were incredibly late, to the point that if it weren't so sad, it would be laughable. The Fascinate only got it about month or so ago - way over six months after the non-US Sammy users were rocking it.

Gingerbread was introduced on the Nexus S, made by Samsung. The HTC Evo got the GB update on June 3. The European equivalents (by overall class) some weeks before that.

Where is the GB update for any of the SGS phones in the US? Not even rumored, that's where.

So - if you want to blame the source code, history doesn't agree with you. If you want to blame the carriers, history doesn't agree with you.

If you want to look into the actual source code for Android, you're going to find that the only thing the phone makers have to worry about is their custom code: kernel, drivers, and their UI overlays.

The full history and the actual Android code prove exactly this:

Updates are a matter of corporate will. Processor manufacturer has zip, nada, nothing to do with it.

~~~~~~

And - processor type and MEMORY is a determinant as to if a phone will get Froyo or above.


And btw - the Eric, aka the Hero, was actually a 2009 phone produced into 2010, just like the Samsung Moment - all of the same class, all off the official update lists now.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/05/verizon-droid-eris-htcs-n_n_347555.html

Where future updatability by the maker is concerned:

Hero/Eris = Moment
Evo = SGS
3vo = SGS2

 

[Arex]

Sikclown makes a good point that the Nexus phones are Google products and when updates are pushed is up to them. From that perspective HTC and Samsung would have nothing to do with when the updates hit the phones and ICS would not be a test in any way.

Also, I have never broken a screen on my phone. If you could share your experience as to how you came to the conclusion that the "(screen) is the first thing to break" I'd really appreciate it.

I was not talking about Nexus phones. I meant Nexus phones -> actual phones.

aka time frame from:

Froyo released on Nexus One -> Froyo released on first HTC device (Evo?)

Gingerbread released on Nexus S -> Gingerbread released on first Samsung device (i9000?)

When ICS comes out both N1 and NS should get it. Hence the time frame it takes to update not the Nexus phone but first actual phone should be fair to both this time around.

If you drop a phone the things most likely to break is the screen and maybe the back cover, the back cover is a cheap replacement and is not required for operation of the phone. Either way both phones have plastic, and if that breaks it would be in both.



Edit:

@EarlyMon - Froyo leaks were available in US variants of SGS phones since October, if not earlier. It is obviously the carriers will at play here. The moment and the hero is an example of carriers will, they could have updated them if they wanted to, they didn't.

I am not saying it was made "specifically" for the Snapdragon, but if some company makes a new chipset now, its not like Froyo will just work on it either. There are optimizations that need to be done. The Hummingbird CPU was created before Froyo came to be, and Google did not know about it either. It was a matter of timing. Anyways Nexus One has very similar hardware too making driver coding easier then working from scratch.

As for history of Android, its a very short history actually. I don't see how you can base it on that.


Also, rumors for update on US variants of SGS is in June/July on some carriers.

 

[ArmageddonX]

I was not talking about Nexus phones. I meant Nexus phones -> actual phones.
aka time frame from:
Froyo released on Nexus One -> Froyo released on first HTC device (Evo?)
Gingerbread released on Nexus S -> Gingerbread released on first Samsung device (i9000?)
When ICS comes out both N1 and NS should get it. Hence the time frame it takes to update not the Nexus phone but first actual phone should be fair to both this time around.

That would still have nothing to do with HTC or Samsung. It's just their hardware & has nothing to do with software. That's like saying depending on whether you have a Toshiba or a Sony Laptop will depend on how quickly you get the newest version of Windows. Makes no sense. The hardware has nothing to do with when Google decides to push the Vanilla software update.

Even if your premise were valid (which its not) 2.3 is already on the Evo & ICS wouldn't prove anything. The Nexus S has been out since last year running 2.3 and GB hit the Evo a few days ago. The update is nowhere in sight for the Epic/Fascinate. Again, this would only be a good example if your premise was a valid one.

 

[drexappeal]

I disagree that HTC phones have better build quality. I mean lets look at it this way, a chain is as strong as its weakest link. What usually breaks first in a phone is the screen. If the phone is lighter it will take less impact as it falls. The heavier it is, the more pressure is put on the screen. So what people may not like is the "Feel" of the phone or the "Lightness" but you can't generalize and say that the build quality is worse. Its not like they are being cheap on stuff, they are intentionally trying to make it lighter and thinner. And considering the SGS2's thinness you can put a case on it and it will still be thinner then the Evo 3d. If weight is an issue put an aluminum case and you got your weight back and it will still be thin.

Now as people complaining about Samsung not giving out updates in comparison to HTC. We have to remember that HTC had Froyo ahead of everyone else and Froyo was designed with the Snapdragon processor in mind. Now if you look at update history, you will notice that there were a few devices that took just as long for HTC to update. The ones they updated quickly were the snapdragon ones with the same CPU as the Nexus One. There are phones that are made by HTC in 2010 that will never get updates..such as the HTC Droid Eris for example. In comparison Samsung is updating all of their 2010 phones to Froyo.

Now if you look at how quickly HTC updated their first phone to Froyo and how quickly Samsung upgraded their first phone to Gingerbread the time frame is around the same. Wait till Ice Cream Sandwich comes out..both of them have a Nexus phone and both of them should have equal amount of time to get it out the door, that is when we can judge who updates better, in a fair race.

This past year's Galaxy S line had a lot of delays for Froyo delivery. That was across ALL the providers (e.g. Captivate, Fascinate, Epic 4G, etc.). The only Galaxy S phone that got updated to Froyo fairly quickly was the Europe version that was first released.

 

[EarlyMon]

BTW - Google is now pushing all makers in the Open Handset Alliance to adhere to a policy of having an 18-month upgrade/support cycle for Android, specifically to address the disparities that occurred in the US over the Froyo update debacle. News reports indicated that Google intended to accomplish this through legal means, but no details were forthcoming.

If there's any doubt that the 3vo, SGS2, or Photon will get tasty Ice Cream - have no fear of that, whatsoever.

As for damage from dropping - jerofld is correct if you also add in momentum. A lighter phone will have less energy to transfer into the components than a heavier one, but the lightness might come from more susceptible components. Sometimes the lighter or the heavier is more damage prone - it's a lot of factors. Agree 100% on the screen - even with Gorilla glass, drop that baby the right way, and bye bye glass - forums here are full of such reports.

~~~~~~

In my opinion, one of the top selling points for the Samsung Galaxy S was the previously-owned Hero and the matching top selling point for later generation HTC phones was the Samsung Moment.

Forget dropping them - try using either of those old phones - there were as many people upset as there were happy, from my point of view.

 

[Arex]

That would still have nothing to do with HTC or Samsung. It's just their hardware & has nothing to do with software. That's like saying depending on whether you have a Toshiba or a Sony Laptop will depend on how quickly you get the newest version of Windows. Makes no sense. The hardware has nothing to do with when Google decides to push the software update.

Even if your premise were valid (which its not) 2.3 is already on the Evo & ICS wouldn't prove anything. The Nexus S has been out since last year running 2.3 and GB hit the Evo a few days ago. The update is nowhere in sight for the Epic/Fascinate. Again, this would only be a good example if your premise was a valid one.

It is valid because look at it this way, Nexus S has similar hardware to Galaxy S, Nexus One has similar hardware to Evo. This way the ONLY thing that can delay the update is their UIs and corporate will. Google pushing the update is true, but lets look at it realistically, who writes the drivers? HTC still had early access to Froyo in comparison to everyone else.

I mean why didn't Evo get Gingerbread update before European SGS?

Edit:
I agree on the angle thing yeah, glass is still glass and all materials have cleavage, hit it from the right angle and it breaks. I just mean that in terms of actual build quality I won't say Samsung is worse, the feel is up to preference so no use arguing on that.

 

[ArmageddonX]

It is valid because look at it this way, Nexus S has similar hardware to Galaxy S, Nexus One has similar hardware to Evo. This way the ONLY thing that can delay the update is their UIs and corporate will. Google pushing the update is true, but lets look at it realistically, who writes the drivers? HTC still had early access to Froyo in comparison to everyone else.
I mean why didn't Evo get Gingerbread update before European SGS?

Updates are delayed past when Google chooses to release them in large part because of Manufacturer UI and Carrier software additions. The Nexus line is excluded from both of those issues. It has nothing to do with the hardware. Vanilla Android updates come from Google, not the manufacturer.

This is off topic and I'm not going to discuss it any longer. Have a good day.

 

[hakujin]

. The moment and the hero is an example of carriers will, they could have updated them if they wanted to, they didn't. .

Nope, they sure didn't. Complained that both devices would perform poorly. Yet, the Moment and Hero are more solid on Froyo than they ever were on Eclair. They ran faster, and more stable. To that end, I think Froyo was ultimately designed to be leaner and meaner, which is why it runs so well on so many antiquated devices. Gingerbread runs great on the Hero as well. But yeah, carriers will lie, because they want you to buy, not retain. Probably why Android is such a challenge for their dumb phone pump and dump mentalities!

But let me be clear: I could give a rat's behind if either HTC or Samsung abandons updates on the latest greatest *IF* one things holds true: The rom cookers and developers like Cyanogen & aosp continue to port ROMs over and IF they run 1/2 as good as their current ports do (e.g. Hero), which there is no reason to doubt they will run great. Putting the fate of my phone's relevance and 'updated baddassery' in the hands of a carrier only interested in extrapolating more money from my wallet is a non sequitur.

Everyone, am I alone in this regard? I'm looking at prospect of root , specs, batt life, and the embrace of the community. The only thing that concerns me in relation to the SSG2 is the last one (based on the relative slowness of dev work @ haxsung), but Samsung appears to be making strides in this regard which is awesome. If XDA jumps on board, the sky is the limit as I put a mountain of faith into those folks!

I consider any ROM out of the carrier's hands crapware that needs to be vetted from carrier bloat and unwanted apps; then tweaked (e.g. cyanogen mod). Therefore, I do compare to Nexus phones, because when they get their updates, that's when I like to see my updates, not months down the road littered w/ Sprint NFL, Nascar, yadda, yadda, and Sense UI/TouchWiz bloat) w/ no meaningful reason for the delay. I call this paradox 'have cake and eat it too'.

 

[EarlyMon]

@EarlyMon - Froyo leaks were available in US variants of SGS phones since October, if not earlier. It is obviously the carriers will at play here. The moment and the hero is an example of carriers will, they could have updated them if they wanted to, they didn't.

As I mod the US SGS forums here and converse with a great many users, I think I'm well-qualified to say that those leaks were deemed not ready for primetime by a great many users and were most often uninstalled.

And your dating on October is not true for all US SGS variants, not by a long shot.

I am not saying it was made "specifically" for the Snapdragon, but if some company makes a new chipset now, its not like Froyo will just work on it either. There are optimizations that need to be done. The Hummingbird CPU was created before Froyo came to be, and Google did not know about it either. It was a matter of timing. Anyways Nexus One has very similar hardware too making driver coding easier then working from scratch.

Two things. First was your previous statement:

We have to remember that HTC had Froyo ahead of everyone else and Froyo was designed with the Snapdragon processor in mind.

Second:

You're not really clear how Android is built, that is obvious from your point of view.

Android = Linux operating system (including kernel and drivers) + Dalvik Virtual Machine (VM) + apps that run within Dalvik VM.

The apps that occur in the Dalvik VM don't recognize all processor features and you can't make low-level calls to the processor - you only get the Android SDK provides you, unless you use the newer native code features on the SDK (not available at Froyo release). And if you go back and look at the Android SDK from that time - it only supports ARM 7 instructions + extensions, so forget trying to optimize anything for ARM 8.

As for the Linux part - depends on the compiler, already established for the Hummingbird's instruction set quite some time ago.

As for history of Android, its a very short history actually. I don't see how you can base it on that.

Because my history list is longer and takes more into account - you used it to justify your point, I used it to refute it.

Also, rumors for update on US variants of SGS is in June/July on some carriers.

Just like the rumors - wait, I mean statements accredited to Samsung - that everyone in the US would be rocking Froyo by Xmas?

~~~~~

Enough of the side-chatter. If we want to continue this discussion, I'll start a new thread for it.

But - you can agree to disagree with me, that's your privilege - but - there is nothing in your arguments on the updating situation supported by history or technology.

Personally, I have nothing more to add on the subject, it's too obvious if all facts are considered instead of theories and partial facts. But as I say, if the rest of you want to continue, I'll move all this into another thread.

 

[jerofld]

I'm no coding expert. But wouldn't the hardware manufacturers also have to code in drivers and that may have more of an impact in software updates than anything else? My experience in this is very limited. I watched, and installed, various GB leaks from Moto onto my DX. In one leak the GPS didn't work. In the next, GPS worked, but the display transitioned poorly and had an updated radio controller. So on and so forth.

Unfortunately, because we do have so much hardware fragmentation, software updates will come slowly. Even from the same manufacturers when considering the generation gaps between models.

 

[sikclown]

It is valid because look at it this way, Nexus S has similar hardware to Galaxy S, Nexus One has similar hardware to Evo. This way the ONLY thing that can delay the update is their UIs and corporate will. Google pushing the update is true, but lets look at it realistically, who writes the drivers? HTC still had early access to Froyo in comparison to everyone else.

I mean why didn't Evo get Gingerbread update before European SGS?

Edit:
I agree on the angle thing yeah, glass is still glass and all materials have cleavage, hit it from the right angle and it breaks. I just mean that in terms of actual build quality I won't say Samsung is worse, the feel is up to preference so no use arguing on that.

I see what you are trying to say I think:
Nexus One is HTC built and got Froyo on xx/xx/201x and it took x amount of days to get onto the first HTC device
Nexus S is Samsung built and got Gingerbread on xx/xx/201x and it took x amount of days for it to get on the first Samsung device.

Where you are making a mistake is in the assumption that one manufacturer gets the latest greatest Android before any other manufacturer. To my understanding the latest and greatest is made available to all manufacturers the day it is released, so no manufacturer gets it earlier or later. Again I point to the fact that Google does not have to work with HTC or Samsung on Nexus releases because it is a pure android experience so nothing needs to be done on HTC or Samsung's side. You can't use that as an argument. And I agree with Early... time to move back to the topic of discussion... I am 3VO bound on the 21st! WOOHOO!

 

[Arex]

Updates are delayed past when Google chooses to release them in large part because of Manufacturer UI and Carrier software additions. The Nexus line is excluded from both of those issues. It has nothing to do with the hardware. Vanilla Android updates come from Google, not the manufacturer.
This is off topic and I'm not going to discuss it any longer. Have a good day.

Let me rephrase that, Nexus One and Nexus S will both have ASOP ICS on them, correct? Most likely around the same time too. So all the drivers and everything will already be in there.

your following me?

so from then on, manufacturer will have to add their UIs and their other junk. Aka its a fair race. On froyo round, HTC had already everything done when the Nexus One was complete all they had to do was add UI and tweaks for things here and there . I mean how hard is it to get an HTC incredible rom on an Evo?

Hence why Samsung was able to get their European version with Gingerbread so fast. Cause most of the drivers were already coded.

This is why I think ICS would be the true example as it evens the playing field.

And I don't think this is offtopic because its important to people in making their decision.


@sikclown - so who writes the propitiatory drivers?

 

[EarlyMon]

And I don't think this is offtopic because its important to people in making their decision.

Your idea about how Android is built, and your flip-flopping to enforce a view that you don't wish to change despite that you have your facts wrong is not part of anyone's decision making process.

You've made at least 8 claims of absolute fact that I've refuted citing the record - as have others.

You're rapidly approaching the point of trolling.

All that matters is that people get timely updates.

I say on this go around, they will, thanks only to Google's legal pressure, because corporate will has been lacking.

I'm going to move this to a side thread here out of the interest of fairness and then lock it when it degrades.

The level of nonsense here masquerading as facts doesn't even warrant this discussion entering into the community at large so you can confuse others.

 

[ArmageddonX]

Let me rephrase that, Nexus One and Nexus S will both have ASOP ICS on them, correct? Most likely around the same time too. So all the drivers and everything will already be in there.

This already happen with Gingerbread last year. Just because Samsung didn't come out on top in the US doesn't mean the results were invalid. The SGS got 2.3 first in Europe and HTC got 2.3 first in the USA. Even steven.

Samsung & HTC both had access to 2.3 last year working with their Nexus phones. Even if your premise were true (which it's not) then the "real test" would have been Gingerbread and not Froyo. Even in this fictional premise the preference would have leaned towards Samsung because it had the premier Nexus device, and HTC still beat them to 2.3 in the US.

Froyo/2.2 came to the Fascinate in April and the Evo got GB/2.3 in June. Pretty hard to defend that on any level.

So as far as the HTC Evo 3D and the SGSII getting update priority or considering update release in the USA or Europe. This is on-topic in discussing that. However, not on discussing the Nexus line of phones.

As for the Motorola Photon, I don't know about future updates. I have no experience with Motorola phones. Is Motorola good with that?

Where you are making a mistake is in the assumption that one manufacturer gets the latest greatest Android before any other manufacturer. To my understanding the latest and greatest is made available to all manufacturers the day it is released, so no manufacturer gets it earlier or later. Again I point to the fact that Google does not have to work with HTC or Samsung on Nexus releases because it is a pure android experience so nothing needs to be done on HTC or Samsung's side.

I agree with this statement completely. I think this is the problem with this misunderstanding.

... but Samsung appears to be making strides in this regard which is awesome. If XDA jumps on board, the sky is the limit as I put a mountain of faith into those folks!

I agree with this also. Manufacturers getting on board faster to be closer with the XDA/Modding communities is a great step towards even more choice in the Android community.

EDIT: Thank you EarlyMon for moving this. I didn't want to discuss this in a thread where it would be off-topic.

 

[EarlyMon]

@sikclown - Considering Evo is on Sprint, Epic got around 7 updates as well I think.

No need to guess at facts when they're readily available.

The Epic has had 4 updates.

Support - Article

Please don't decide numbers based on opinion.

Let me rephrase that, Nexus One and Nexus S will both have ASOP ICS on them, correct? Most likely around the same time too. So all the drivers and everything will already be in there.

What?

No. On both counts.

your following me?

Closely.

so from then on, manufacturer will have to add their UIs and their other junk. Aka its a fair race. On froyo round, HTC had already everything done when the Nexus One was complete all they had to do was add UI and tweaks for things here and there . I mean how hard is it to get an HTC incredible rom on an Evo?

@sikclown - so who writes the propitiatory drivers?

Samsung write drivers for their phones, HTC for theirs, some are based on common code slices.

The race has always been fair.

System software is not junk. It's the stuff critical to make the phone work.

If you don't know what a driver is, please ask.

Please don't make up any more random facts and post them because they prove some point.

 

[NeoteriX]

The cool part no one seems to realize about Samsung is if your phone breaks in any way, even fall damage. Samsung will warranty it with no questions asked. HTC will not.

Where in Samsung's warranty agreement do they indicate that phones damaged due to user negligence or abuse will be covered under warranty? As a lawyer, I'm kinda of the mindset that if it's not in writing, it doesn't exist I've never seen a warranty agreement that didn't exclude acts of user negligence, abuse, error...

 

[NeoteriX]

I can see how you think that Froyo was designed for the Snapdragon but that is absolutely and completely false. Whoever started that chestnut simply made that up out of whole cloth.

I will point out though that it seems that many (and I think corporate reps have said this) have chalked up the complete absence Honeycomb tablets running on anything but Tegra 2 SoCs to the fact that Honeycomb was written around the Tegra 2 and that drivers or whatnot for other SoCs like Qualcomm were not available at launch so there is a big lead time gap. I don't know if this translates to the phone versions of Android -- what with Honeycomb not being released in an open source way yet like the other versions.

 

[Mauddib]

Thanks,

Well the screen one way or the other is the first thing that will break. If it falls in a way that plastic would shatter, neither phones would make it as both phones have plastic. And screen would shatter too.

I have dropped my phone at least a dozen times in the 1.8 years I have owned it and the screen has little wear. There is however a crack on the bottom of my device from a drop. There are plenty of people that have broken a screen by dropping there phones but there have been many more that have not.

The biggest weakness of any phone is any part that moves. Battery doors have been a problem either becoming too lose or breaking. Covers for ports or the areas around those ports cracking. Buttons losing wearing down or just falling off. Connections on any sliding phone. These are where your problems for build quality will come from.

 

[you2]

I think part of the problem is that many of the US galaxies were unique (including different chips). I think several updates were partially pushed then proved to have issues and were pulled. This is partly due to us carries wanting modifications.
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Hopefully the S2 will be more uniformed. Also I have high hopes for the non-samsung kernel.
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With that issue asside from reading reviews and so forth the following trend seems to be true for the high end fphones:
samsung - weak ant. good battery life - nice display - light/thin - so so audio (I wonder if thin design hurt here), super fast
htc - cancellation hardware, good ant, so so to lousy battery, heavy, modest display, almost fast enough
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From what I've seen so far of he s2 and evo3d:
s2 - might have a weak ant - good is most other areas 116g - soso audio - they added cancellation mic
evo3d - modest battery life - probably has good audio - probably has a good ant - 170g (rather heavy)
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As to durability/build quality: All we've seen are the shells - i bleieve both devices are using gor. glasses; the comment about falls and weight is valid but there is a third factor - how well the outside shell absorbs the impact and how much is felt by the inner component and display. I forget the term (someone remind me it drives me nuts) but it has to do with how brittle the outside shell is - as to comparing the two - really can't comment. Wish I could - wish we had durability data on evo and captivate/fascinate/vibrant (note I left off the epic because the sliding keyboard represent a hazard)
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Btw the light vs heavy is really a matter of opinion - some prefer light phones - some prefer heavy.

 

[EarlyMon]

I will point out though that it seems that many (and I think corporate reps have said this) have chalked up the complete absence Honeycomb tablets running on anything but Tegra 2 SoCs to the fact that Honeycomb was written around the Tegra 2 and that drivers or whatnot for other SoCs like Qualcomm were not available at launch so there is a big lead time gap. I don't know if this translates to the phone versions of Android -- what with Honeycomb not being released in an open source way yet like the other versions.

You've nailed the pieces, but the order and timing specifies the conclusions.

Drivers and kernels - those are the Tegra-2 parts - and are part of the customizations I mentioned earlier. (Linux, as underlies Android, has been dual-core capable long before the Tegra-2 came along.)

Moreover as you mention, Google came right out and gave the open source community a cold when they sneezed that they were withholding Honeycomb from the AOSP repository so others couldn't pick it up and get to work right away on phones (as they indicated this would be brand-damaging in the long run).

They've since clarified their position on this and the community is breathing easier over the promise of an open rendezvous in Ice Cream. (*)

That was a different situation that existed for Froyo or Gingerbread and must be constrained so as to be treated within strict context of the Android tablet discussions.

Why do I say that?

I could guess the attachment points for Honeycomb right now and begin writing kernel and driver code for it. (In fact, I'm rather sure that some of that has already happened elsewhere.) But - without the AOSP code, I've got nothing.

To the extent that I've guessed correctly for my processor and _other_ hardware changes, as would be dictated by past experience already producing Donut, Eclair, Froyo..., I ought be able to take the repository code and as soon as I have it, begin integration as I already have my hardware-side interfaces in hand (and don't need to wait for AOSP code availability to begin that work).

And when a few enterprising independent dev lads tried that last year, what happened? It was immediately revealed that Honeycomb is already carrying internally 800x480 support with an ability to adapt its UI (no Ice Cream needed). So that part is already there, just not ready yet.

Note the date:

Honeycomb gets ported to the HTC Desire | Android Community

But none of that guesswork was required for the Froyo update. The hardware was running Eclair and was well in hand. What was the single biggest Froyo change: the JIT compiler, strictly a part allocated to the Dalvik VM, not impacting drivers. What is the single biggest GB change: updating dynamic memory allocation and its cleanup, also within the Dalvik VM. Feature update, like NFC when you have no such hardware on a legacy phone - conditional build, leave the whole thing off.

The phone makers and carriers are trying to sell the idea that complex software updates are following procedural rules from the early to mid 1990s, and that's not so.

For a lot of things we simply don't write a lot of new code anymore. We write rule-based systems that when invoked, extract whole and partial codes from stable repositories, then customize by machine the machine-specific parts, and then build final code. This allows us to do the heavy lifting on an operating system only in the places where expert work is really required for an embedded system such as a phone, while the open source community at large constantly refine the repositories.

I'll stop, that's probably getting too abstract to understand.

(* - Just as I predicted all this would happen at about the end of last year, btw.)