Help Micro SDHC card discussion for the Evo 3D.

[novox77]

yeah I can't argue with River's numbers, but the only explanation is that there's more to consider than what was presented. Because my gallery's load times are horrendous on the stock card and rediculously fast on my class 10. And easy to reproduce the difference by swapping out the two cards.

My guess is that it takes some time to find the images on the card, and if the file is fragmented, which it very will might be on my 8mb card cause it's constantly full and I'm constantly deleting stuff and adding stuff, all that seek time might slow things down. I actually don't know much about solid state storage, so I don't even know if fragmentation is an issue. Again, just guessing here.

The other theory is that the app is buffering several images simultaneously, even if only one image appears on screen. So you're not really loading one image; you may be loading up 10 at the same time.

 

[EarlyMon]

Check under /sdcard/dcim - if you find a .thumbnails folder there, it validates yourfriendmat's idea that there are additional thumbnail processes occurring.

 

[Emmexx]

Not really. The math just does not hold up. Lets say that you have a 2mb picture. The class 2 card should be able to load that picture in less then 1 second. If you had a class 10 card, would load the picture in less then 1/10th of a second. The difference between 1/5th of a second and 1 second is not really processable to the human mind. And that is just the transfering speeds.

The difference in just the read times, class 2 card should beable to get about 8MBPS read time and the class 10 should be able to get about 16 MBPS.

That would take a 2 MB thumbnail ( 2MB is the same as a 8megapixel jpg) less then 1/4 of a second for the class 2 card and about 1/32 of a second for the class 10 card. Now we are way pass the ability of the humans to see the difference in the actual loading of an image.

Loading a thumbnail is even worst, given that it would be like 200KB, which would be like 1/320 of a second for class2 and like 1/1640 for a class 10, (that is just a guess).

In the real world, unless you are reading and writing massive files to the card consistency you would never be able to tell the difference between the performance of a class 2 card compared to a class 10 card. In order to notice the difference, you would have to transfer more then 2 MB files consistency between the cards.

When you have a issue with thumb nails appearing it more likely a problem with the drivers or the thumb nail has to be created, rather then a simple display.

Once again, the size of the thumb nail vs the transfer speed, the math just does not hold up.

PS, I have a ton of cards, all speeds. In the real world, I use a class 10 card only for 1080p playback, but a class 4 card works to. For simple pictures, 720p, and music, a class 2 card is faster then most of you need. On the other hand, transference large files, like 5 gigs +, you really do see the difference in transfer speed.

I understand what you say here, but I have to disagree.

I have almost 700 MB of pics or art or what have you on my phone. I use an app called wallswitch to put a new pic on my homescreen every minute. I have several folders of pics on the phone just for my various moods. I simply enjoy having pics to look at when I turn on my phone.

Even if the phone is loading thumbnails(1/10 of pic size) and not the full pics, that is 70MB by your earlier math. That right there shows a real world savings time of almost 9 seconds, using your thumbnail math guess of 1/320 for class 2 at 10.93 seconds to load and 1/1640 for class 10 at 2.1 seconds to load.

Now, real world numbers for cards may be a bit more inefficient and that would only make loading times worse for lesser class cards, not better.

I have experienced load times personally with class 2, 4 and 6 with the same manufacturer. I have indeed noticed significant improvement in load times for the respective cards.

That is not to say that drivers and such in the phone don't play a part because they obviously do in regards to how the UI displays them, because they surely do. However, the speed of the card that they are stored upon is a bottleneck. If that bottleneck is 16MBPS compared to 8MBPS, or whatever the actual numbers are, there is still an improved throughput with the class ten that the class two doesn't have. With the experience I have regarding this, I can never go back to anything less than a class ten without immediately seeing the difference.

 

[RiverOfIce]

I understand what you say here, but I have to disagree.

I have almost 700 MB of pics or art or what have you on my phone. I use an app called wallswitch to put a new pic on my homescreen every minute. I have several folders of pics on the phone just for my various moods. I simply enjoy having pics to look at when I turn on my phone.

Even if the phone is loading thumbnails(1/10 of pic size) and not the full pics, that is 70MB by your earlier math. That right there shows a real world savings time of almost 9 seconds, using your thumbnail math guess of 1/320 for class 2 at 10.93 seconds to load and 1/1640 for class 10 at 2.1 seconds to load.

Now, real world numbers for cards may be a bit more inefficient and that would only make loading times worse for lesser class cards, not better.

I have experienced load times personally with class 2, 4 and 6 with the same manufacturer. I have indeed noticed significant improvement in load times for the respective cards.

That is not to say that drivers and such in the phone don't play a part because they obviously do in regards to how the UI displays them, because they surely do. However, the speed of the card that they are stored upon is a bottleneck. If that bottleneck is 16MBPS compared to 8MBPS, or whatever the actual numbers are, there is still an improved throughput with the class ten that the class two doesn't have. With the experience I have regarding this, I can never go back to anything less than a class ten without immediately seeing the difference.

And I have dozens of cards here, and I will tell the oppsite. If I do a blind test, in which I load the same data on the same card and then try to display it, I will not beable to guess which card is the 10 and which is the 2. I have done this for many people and they will tell you the same.

As for your 70mb, you should not have to load 70mb of thumbnails at one time, it would be a huge resource hog. But if you did, you would would be correct. It would take 10 seconds compared to 2 seconds, for like 300 pictures, assuming you are at 8megapixels. That is assuming that you are tranfering, which is 2MBPS. READING is about 10MBPS with a class 2. There is a huge performance problem between transferring and just reading with all cards. The class shows the slowest possible speed, transfering, not the fastest which is reading.

To be honest, I get what ever is cheapest with the fastest speeds. Lately I picked up class 10 card because after all the math it was only $1.50 more then a class 2.

The bottom line is, get what every is the cheapest and fast enough. If you demand that 300 pictures load at one time, then get the class 10. But if you can wait for 8 seconds for the 290 other pictures to load, get a class 2. If there is only 2 or 3 bucks difference, get the fastest card.

PS. Just tried that, did not work. Loaded the class 2 and class 10 card with the same pictures, 13gb worth. Loaded the class2 card waited for about 1 minute for it to create the thumb nails. Then waited for the class 10 card about 30 seconds for it to load.

Unplugged both cards rebooted the transformer. Then mixed the cards up, and randomly selected a card, inserted it. No notice able difference in speeds. The transformer must start loading the tumbnails to memory or something.

 

[novox77]

And I have dozens of cards here, and I will tell the oppsite. If I do a blind test, in which I load the same data on the same card and then try to display it, I will not beable to guess which card is the 10 and which is the 2. I have done this for many people and they will tell you the same.

If I find the time, I'll make a video between my stock 8gb class 2 and my 16gb class 10. It really is night and day. You tell me if I need to make it a blind test. I really doubt it will be necessary.

I'll even swap them out 3x each.

Or if you take my word for it, there's some other variable(s) we're not accounting for. I still think it's fragmentation on my smaller SD card.

 

[Cashprizes]

Guy a few posts up was saying how 1/5 and 1 second delay are the same as the human brain can't process the difference. That is total nonsense, 1 second is a definite noticeable "wait" whereas 1/5 of a second is damn near instantaneous.

Class 10 might be overkill, but speed is speed.

 

[Emmexx]

And I have dozens of cards here, and I will tell the oppsite. If I do a blind test, in which I load the same data on the same card and then try to display it, I will not beable to guess which card is the 10 and which is the 2. I have done this for many people and they will tell you the same.

I can honestly say I don't know how this can be a YMMV, but that does appear to be the case. My class 4 32 GB does not bring up my pics and music up with the speed the class 10 does. Your cards give you no noticeable speed increase in either case.

Rather than continue the conversation on this topic ad nauseum, I will end my side of it here and just state that I am happy to have an improvement in speed from previous cards to my newest and that my niece does as well.

 

[RiverOfIce]

on the stock card

Sorry just read that. You mean the stock card that came with the phone? Because that card is a failed bin card, meaning it could not maintain a consistent read/write/transfer time of 2MBPS.

I just found my stock cards for all 8 of my evos, the fastest can maintain a read speed of only 1.4MBPS and a transfer speed of 1.3MBPS.

With every production there is failed to bin cards, these card are either sold to 3rd party companies or recycled. Given that not a single card from my "stock cards" could maintain the minimum to be binned properly, I dumped them a long time ago.


Just finishing a second round of testing. Will post results for transferring speed, which will be the slowest speed of the cards, about 6 micro sd cards.

But for general info.

Benchmarks 2011 SD Cards
in most test you will find that a class 6 and 4 have about the same throughput as a class 10.

 

[EarlyMon]

With every production there is failed to bin cards, these card are either sold to 3rd party companies or recycled. Given that not a single card from my "stock cards" could maintain the minimum to be binned properly, I dumped them a long time ago.


Just finishing a second round of testing. Will post results for transferring speed, which will be the slowest speed of the cards, about 6 micro sd cards.

But for general info.

Benchmarks 2011 SD Cards
in most test you will find that a class 6 and 4 have about the same throughput as a class 10.

OK - so if we substitute "stock cards" for "class 4" (where people identified that based on labeling of stock cards) then you agree - replace the stock card with something effective.

And for gunshy consumers without your access to resources, some will want to go overboard to be safe. (I'm going with some sort of class 10, don't care if it's overkill, I've lived with underkill long enough!)

Now that you've deconflicted your observables with others, I'm going to replace my stock card. I hate slow photo loading, while I get the endless "Building thumbnails" or whatever Astro or ES says (using that trying to get speed Gallery didn't have).

I'm not going to have anyone at the next gathering waiting what seems forever to see the bank of family snaps I often drag around with.

 

[fattank]

You know, it'd be cool if we (this forum) put together a team of vigilantes to patrol the IntraWebz in search of the cheapest 32GB (class 4+) microSDHC cards. You know, the moment it dips under $50, everybody emails everybody else and the like (or PM's with email notification). I'd put in my name for that effort.

 

[ebolamonkey3]

Does it matter if the microSD card is formatted as FAT32 of NTFS?

 

[NeoteriX]

Now that you've deconflicted your observables with others, I'm going to replace my stock card. I hate slow photo loading, while I get the endless "Building thumbnails" or whatever Astro or ES says (using that trying to get speed Gallery didn't have).

I'm not going to have anyone at the next gathering waiting what seems forever to see the bank of family snaps I often drag around with.

FYI everyone -- I think we all know that the stock HTC Gallery app that comes with the Evo 4G is rubbish and takes forever to load/cache.

I've since switched to "QuickPic" which blows the pants off the stock gallery app and is damn well near instantaneous in terms of gallery loading:

https://market.android.com/details?id=com.alensw.PicFolder

 

[EarlyMon]

Does it matter if the microSD card is formatted as FAT32 of NTFS?

Pretty sure the system requires the primary partition to be FAT32 on the uSD card.

And somebuddy else mentioned that the Evo only had a class 2 SD card, stock, while the 3vo is class 4 - so, there's that in this discussion.

Cool beans on QuickPic - I'd never heard of that one!

 

[fattank]

For a very cheap (UNDER $50 TOTAL) pop-in replacement for the stock 8GB card, try this one (act fast!). It's 32GB, users seem happy, there's a lifetime warranty, and best yet... the read speed is around 10MB/sec and the write speed around 5MB/sec. That's not bad at all, really. Comes with adapter and free shipping.

This is the best I've seen (I have owned some A-DATA cards and I love[d] them to death -- my Kingstons are good, too, but my Lexar is quite fragile and finicky). You know, for full disclosure.

Edit: Djblue11 posted the exact same card before I did. What are the odds... well, more power to us all!

 

[RAdroider]

what does everyone think of this?

Amazon.com: KOMPUTERBAY 32GB Class 10 MicroSDHC Card 32 GB High Speed Micro SDHC with SDHC adapter: Electronics

Im looking for a 32 or 16, leaning towards what the best deal would be...for something on Amazon Prime, so I can get it within 2 days. So I want to order tomorrow at the latest.

On a side tech-noob note. I'm more likely to buy a better micro SD, if I knew that I'd be able to use it in my next phone for sure (consider I buy one that allows external memory). Is micro sd likely to still be standard for most phones in 2 years?

Thanks in advance

 

[Djblue11]

I found an even better deal than the other card....I'm glad I didn't buy it yet
Newegg.com - PNY 32GB Micro SDHC Flash Card for Tablet PCs Model P-SDU32G10TEFM1. A class 10 32gb card for $57. It's made by Pny so it should be good. There are no reviews for the 32gb model, but there were for the 16gb model (which was posted earlier in this thread). The reviews have said the speeds are great and it works with android.

Make a new account and use the code NEWCUSTOMER10 for $10 off, making your total price $47.99($51.34 if you live in one of the states that get's taxed)

Edit- It's sold out again

 

[rmonty]

Quick question regarding new SD card. I bought a larger/faster one to put in the 3D when i get it. What is the best way to copy the data from the current card in the phone to the new one? Is it better to do the copy before I turn on the phone or does it matter? I've heard a rumor that the Green Hornet movie might have DRM issues if copied, could they really tie it to the card like that?

 

[atg284]

I am about half way though my 8 GB card that came with the 3VO already!

I am thinking about getting a 32 GB (Class 6) here in a bit and just had a few questions. New to droid keep in mind

1.)If I simply pull out the old card and put in the new one will this mess up any current programs or folder pathways for anything?

2.)Should I just copy and paste everything over to the new card? Any problems with that?

3.) What class of card came with it. I have the Otterbox on it and would prefer not to take it off if I dont have to. Anyone remember it's class?

4.) How important is the class of card if you have programs that run directly from it?

Thanks for any info!

Edit: Sorry. Thanks for the move.

 

[007shark]

The Class 4 and 6 are fine for android phones. The Class 10s do not play as well. I suggest doing a full format on the card using your PC before doing anything else. Then make sure you have the "view hidden folders" option enabled on your PC and copy and paste everything over to the new card. I had to reboot my phone after installing the new card for it to mount correctly.
I had apps installed on the sd and quite a bit of stuff and did not have any issues with copying everything over. All apps still work as they should.

 

[EarlyMon]

I've moved your post here to the official thread for this, I believe that you'll find your answers in the posts here.

Your existing card is class 4, meaning it's capable of 4 MBps transfers, and your phone will be off when you change cards, so you can't mess up running programs.

2 GB of your sd card is being used for the Green Hornet unless you have already removed it.

And I'm of the school that says use the built in format for the card, but a PC will do if intended for an sd card.

 

[atg284]

The Class 4 and 6 are fine for android phones. The Class 10s do not play as well. I suggest doing a full format on the card using your PC before doing anything else. Then make sure you have the "view hidden folders" option enabled on your PC and copy and paste everything over to the new card. I had to reboot my phone after installing the new card for it to mount correctly.
I had apps installed on the sd and quite a bit of stuff and did not have any issues with copying everything over. All apps still work as they should.

Thanks!

How do you "view hidden folders"? I am testing the process with a different card. Also should I just use the default "file system" with 16 kilobytes as the "Allocation unit size" ?

Thanks for any input

 

[atg284]

I've moved your post here to the official thread for this, I believe that you'll find your answers in the posts here.

Your existing card is class 4, meaning it's capable of 4 MBps transfers, and your phone will be off when you change cards, so you can't mess up running programs.

2 GB of your sd card is being used for the Green Hornet unless you have already removed it.

Ah! Thank you! I forgot about the movie that is on it

I should probably watch and get rid of that soon!

 

[jhietter]

I'll add in my 2 cents as a 3D owner who just purchased a Lexar 32GB Class 10. I love it. I wanted the space for all my music and I saw the difference in speed just transferring to the card, which was enough for me, considering the price difference wasn't ridiculous. It's also just nice to know I have the fastest.

 

[oOMavrikOo]

Whenever I go to look at The Green Hornet movie it says there aren't any videos. I wiped my SD card after getting my phone. Is the movie pre-installed externally?

 

[EarlyMon]

The movie was on the SD card. Details on that here - http://androidforums.com/htc-evo-3d/360308-green-hornet-movie-question.html

How to get it and the other stuff back - http://androidforums.com/htc-evo-3d/365747-missing-pre-loaded-3d-pictures-link-inside.html