Rogers 911/Sense UI Update: Post your problems here

[nicracine]

Hi Nicolas-

I can't comment on releases before they're available but when we first made the announcement, we did say by mid-year.

Also, I think I need to make a distinction here. Our team is looking at and reviewing the list of bugs/fixes (thanks Michael - very helpful!) and as I have information to share, I will. But if you have an issue that has "seriously crippled" you device, I would recommend calling Wireless Technical Support and they should be able to assist and determine if the issue is device-related. Please ensure you're asking for Technical Support as that is different than Customer Care.

Hope that helps,
Mary

Why do I even bother...

I will rephrase my question : my SMARTPHONE is seriously crippled. As a phone it works, I get to make and receive calls. However, if I wanted a phone, I would have kept my motorola flip.

My grievance is that I bought a smartphone, and Rogers keep taking away features that make a smartphone what it is.

Here is why I think you should answer our questions:
- By its policies, Rogers is turning my $600 smartphone into a $100 phone. This qualifies as a customer-related problem to me.
- If my smartphone-turned phone stays that way until mid-year (whenever that is), it is a customer-relation problem to me.
- If Rogers uses methods that aggravate it's customers, and leave them without a working phone, as it has been the case for many people here, this qualifies as a customer-related problem to me.

So, here are a few questions that we would like answers to:
- If this 911 problem was known in september, and cutting Data fixes that, AND Rogers has the security of its customers in priority, why not cut data in september? Why do it just now?
- How exactly does cutting data will resolve a problem caused by the GPS chip when dialing 911?
- What is the list of changes made to the phones, Dream and Magic, in the up/downgrade that was imposed to us by Rogers?

I am sure there are other questions that I can't recall now, but we can start with these.

Nicolas Racine

 

[Ostromar]

Since completing the upgrade on my phone I have been unable to connect to the network. It has been a week now and Rogers standard reply is "we are working on it and we may call you once the problem is fixed'. they then asked if they can do anything else for me. No explanation no nothing.

 

[chrisyak]

wow...this has become a nightmare and am sure this is going to change alot of customers minds on what phone they purchase next time and how it's supported.As a android lover i must admit that experience has me frustrated and it's just not rogers it's HTC as well.I think a google branded phone is the direction for me,they have their own issues as well but i could avoid a whole lot of the frustration that Rogers-HTC has made for it's customers.

 

[damnmad]

Why do I even bother...

I will rephrase my question : my SMARTPHONE is seriously crippled. As a phone it works, I get to make and receive calls. However, if I wanted a phone, I would have kept my motorola flip.

My grievance is that I bought a smartphone, and Rogers keep taking away features that make a smartphone what it is.

Here is why I think you should answer our questions:
- By its policies, Rogers is turning my $600 smartphone into a $100 phone. This qualifies as a customer-related problem to me.
- If my smartphone-turned phone stays that way until mid-year (whenever that is), it is a customer-relation problem to me.
- If Rogers uses methods that aggravate it's customers, and leave them without a working phone, as it has been the case for many people here, this qualifies as a customer-related problem to me.

So, here are a few questions that we would like answers to:
- If this 911 problem was known in september, and cutting Data fixes that, AND Rogers has the security of its customers in priority, why not cut data in september? Why do it just now?
- How exactly does cutting data will resolve a problem caused by the GPS chip when dialing 911?
- What is the list of changes made to the phones, Dream and Magic, in the up/downgrade that was imposed to us by Rogers?

I am sure there are other questions that I can't recall now, but we can start with these.

Nicolas Racine

Buddy, take it easy. I'm upset about that situation too, but I'll answer your questions this time, so objectively.

- Rogers didn't know about the issue since September, and we all know their top priority is making money. They don't want to be liable to any losses caused by that glitch.
- Cutting the data would prevent the phone from sending its coordinates to the emergency guys. That was when the phone rebooted, as it sends the location, not when it detects it. The problem is not in the GPS chip. Rephrase again. Oh sorry this wouldn't be rephrasing.
- We're all waiting for a list of changes, not that it will give you any technical details.

Look, I'm pissed off by this whole situation too, but even with other carriers nothing would change. You think any carrier's rom in the world will give you root privileges, no. And I have to say, although I didn't get one yet, I'm very happy with Rogers offering us free Magics. I've never heard of a carrier doing that.

Once again, so objectively. I'm leaving my Dream home because if I put my SIM card in it, I'd lose my data. I waited for and talked with reps for hours because of this issue, but I try to be objective.

 

[kaput]

Hi, did the upgrade on my dream (magic lost by UPS)
One new thing i noticed, is that when the screen goes off, the clock does too.
So waking up takes up to 20 sec sometimes and i can see the clock go from the time the screen shutoff to whatever time it is then. The interface is very choppy until the clock gets the right time. I seem to have missed a few alarms because of it. The alarm (get pills app) will ring once i wakeup the phone.
I understand the app could be defective, but that dont explain the clock catching when i wake it.

And like many others force closes here and there, and missed calls. Ill let the dust settle and look for rooting instructions soon.

Bought android for free software as in free speech, now im getting it as in free stale flat beer

 

[mjschmidt]

Buddy, take it easy. I'm upset about that situation too, but I'll answer your questions this time, so objectively.

- Rogers didn't know about the issue since September, and we all know their top priority is making money. They don't want to be liable to any losses caused by that glitch.
- Cutting the data would prevent the phone from sending its coordinates to the emergency guys. That was when the phone rebooted, as it sends the location, not when it detects it. The problem is not in the GPS chip. Rephrase again. Oh sorry this wouldn't be rephrasing.
- We're all waiting for a list of changes, not that it will give you any technical details.

Dear Buddy,

1. Rogers Tech Support was first informed of the issue by a caller in September. See this blog post. Also, HTC knew about the bug in september because _they_ worked with T-Mobile in the states to push out the fix to G1 and MyTouch owners with Android 1.6 on October 1. (See the same blog post). So even if that one Rogers tech didn't bother to let anyone know about the call he got, at the very least _HTC_ knew about it, and didn't bother to inform Rogers, or they did inform Rogers, and Rogers did nothing.

And just in case you were going to suggest that the .mp3 of the call is fake, I should like to point out that Rogers was informed of the existence of the .mp3 (via RogersMary) and so far has not denied it to be real.

2. It has yet to be confirmed whether there is a _direct_ connection between data being on, and the E911 bug. Your GPS _will_ work without data, you just won't be able to use it with Google Maps (or other apps) unless you have WiFi. Rogers still won't answer the question about Data and it's affect on 911 calls, and I have asked RogersMary repeatedly via Twitter.

Consider this, though, _if_ turning off data insures that 911 calls complete, and if we believe Rogers that they didn't know about the 911 issue in Sept, why didn't they turn off data immediately when they issued the first text message to us about the bug? Instead they just told us to turn off GPS.

Now they tell us turning data off is for our protection because it will allow 911 calls to complete. Either it's true, or it isn't. If it's true, and Rogers truly does care about our safety, they should/would have turned it off when they sent the first text message, even if it might piss off customers.

3. The list we are waiting for _is_ the technical list of changes. pir8 (whom you have no doubt seen on these forums) is himself a software dev, and a phone reviewer. He has asked Mary repeatedly for the _technical_ change list, and she has promised him repeatedly to get it for us.

 

[vikingisson]

Buddy, take it easy. I'm upset about that situation too, but I'll answer your questions this time, so objectively.

The bug that is most irritating to that user is a language bug and trust me, annoying input issues like that ruin any usefulness and enjoyment. A really big problem if you happen to need a language other than English.

- Rogers didn't know about the issue since September, and we all know their top priority is making money. They don't want to be liable to any losses caused by that glitch.

Covered in above posts. Whatever happened or didn't, they should have known but this isn't the issue anymore.

- Cutting the data would prevent the phone from sending its coordinates to the emergency guys. That was when the phone rebooted, as it sends the location, not when it detects it. The problem is not in the GPS chip. Rephrase again. Oh sorry this wouldn't be rephrasing.

I don't think cutting data service has anything to do with GPS performance. It was about forcing you to update. But who knows what the reason. I'd be very surprised if E911 depended on data service at all. The GPS data is more likely being sent over the 911 call and is the only way E911 makes any sense. Data not needed for 911. Rogers was covering all the bases.

- We're all waiting for a list of changes, not that it will give you any technical details.

Look, I'm pissed off by this whole situation too, but even with other carriers nothing would change. You think any carrier's rom in the world will give you root privileges, no. And I have to say, although I didn't get one yet, I'm very happy with Rogers offering us free Magics. I've never heard of a carrier doing that.

Once again, so objectively. I'm leaving my Dream home because if I put my SIM card in it, I'd lose my data. I waited for and talked with reps for hours because of this issue, but I try to be objective.

I'm only curious about the changes. I can guess at most of them already and don't expect Rogers to deliver a full and proper changelog.
Of course the ROM won't let you root it, neither did the previous one but it happened anyway. While making the ~5 line bug fix for 911 they no doubt fixed the other bug that allowed people to root the phone. This thread has nothing to do with rooting the phone, we know where they stand on that.

What concerns me right now is how long will the robot phone calls and emergency text messages go on? I have my data working but they keep calling me about the update anyway.

 

[timbro]

I've got another one that I don't think anyone's mentioned (Magic).

There doesn't seem to be a way to set the phone on silent+vibrate for notifications any more.

In the old 1.5 build you could go to settings > sound & display and toggle silent mode. You can still do this, but you can no longer check off vibrate as well for all notifications.

This has been replaced with a checkbox to vibrate for incoming calls.

This means that the phone no longer vibrates for IMs, emails, reminders, etc. (when silent)

Anyone else seeing this?


ie: turn the volume switch down until silent mode kicks in, turn it town again for vibrate mode, send yourself an email.

hold down the red power button and you get a menu that asks you what you want silent mode, vibration mode, airplane mode...

 

[timbro]

Had a magic since June 2009, I have been using it a lot, coding many custom apps for myself, downloading tons of stuff from market just to try, I learned to live with it's limitations, not a big compromise when I think about the powerful little machine in my hand. There's always little things, nothing is perfect, but really nothing to complain about (other than dreaming about an upgrade of my old 1.5 to 2.1) If I had any issue, I don't remember what it was about but it was really nothing compared to the past week... Rogers found the right way to turn a totally satisfied customers into the opposite...

After a few days, some apps reinstalled, nothing like what it was before, let's start with a final status on ram usage:

I had tons of useless stuff loaded, it was about time for a cleanup (but not a forced one...), I had 192 meg free

Now, after I installed the minimum I needed, 129 meg free, that's huge...

At least it keeps me continuously hooked at searching for the next issue, here's today's surprise...

At lunch with an old friend who just started a new job, he was about to give his new business email adress, I grabbed my sharp "smart" phone to show off how good it was great at contact management... Ooops, crap, oops, what ??? No way to edit an existing contact and add a new email address, after messing around for a while searching for the new way to do it (and obviously this is gone, like many other things) I decided to take the pad and pen out of my briefcase, write it down, and use gmail on my pc when I returned to the office.

We get an update, that I admit offer some cute stuff, but at the cost of having the real important stuff, what the hell is that ???

Android is a great platform, the Google Apps integration was unbeatable, couldn't be smoother, I used to have an ANDROID phone, last saturday an update turned it into an HTC/ROGERS piece of ####, no my phone is not an android anymore, it was turned into some bastard mutant by some corporations who have no clue what a platform like android is about, by trying to throw "cute" stuff at us, all they manage to do is trash what's really important.

Also, I never really rebooted the thing before, it happened usually on big days away from charger when I had to swap the battery, for the past few days, each time I noticed my data service was unavailable, reboot and, thanks god, it came back after the reboot... Once per day for the past 2 days.

that was a bad day...

J-C

you can definitely edit contacts and you can turn off the sense ui. To turn off the sense ui look at this video YouTube - HTC Magic (Tips) Turn Off HTC Sense UI

 

[damnmad]

Dear Buddy,

1. Rogers Tech Support was first informed of the issue by a caller in September.
...
3. The list we are waiting for _is_ the technical list of changes. pir8 (whom you have no doubt seen on these forums) is himself a software dev, and a phone reviewer. He has asked Mary repeatedly for the _technical_ change list, and she has promised him repeatedly to get it for us.

I'm already aware of most that you said except the part when you talk about the list of changes. I've been following this issue closely.

1. That mp3 file is true I've been assuming since I first heard it, shortly after it was put on the forums. You consider this: what would Rogers gain by ignoring that glitch if it knew about it? Ever thought of how many calls regular people make everyday to report "problems" in their devices? I do blame that tech guy who handled the call though, he should have believed a guy who had a fake network (I do remember that from listening to it last time, didn't listen to it now). HTC informed Rogers, HTC didn't, no way to find out, so I'll leave that for now.

2. Don't be over skeptical, I don't remember where, but I do remember reading that the phone reboots as it tries to send the data to emergency operators. About Rogers not disabling data access, I'll assume you don't know anything about software development, but believe me, it takes a lot of time to find a solution, the hardest part being identifying the "troubling bit." I'm not saying I like the update, or that I applied it or will ever apply it, but I'm just trying to objective. (third time)

3. About the list of changes, I didn't know that Mary said they'll be giving out technical details, but I still don't think HTC would do it.

 

[newuser1]

hold down the red power button and you get a menu that asks you what you want silent mode, vibration mode, airplane mode...

I'm aware that this is another way to activate the same mode, but it still doesn't fix this problem.

The only thing that vibrates under this mode is phone calls, emails and IMs do not.

But they DID before the update.


I suppose I could turn the volume down to the lowest notch before silent mode kicks in, but I shouldn't have to do this.

 

[Akkuzo]

CBC News - Consumer Life - CRTC forces cell firms to change 911 systems


edit: added this: http://www.crtc.gc.ca/eng/info_sht/t1035.htm

Note the compliance deadline.

 

[damnmad]

The bug that is most irritating to that user is a language bug and trust me, annoying input issues like that ruin any usefulness and enjoyment. A really big problem if you happen to need a language other than English.

...

I do understand the inconvenience this caused to everyone, including me. I haven't updated my phone yet, so all I know about the problems is what I read.

So briefly, Rogers should have known, yes. That's one thing. Cutting data wouldn't affect 911 calls? I say almost certainly it does. If we can send data through a call without that "aliens speaking" sound, tell me. That would be so exciting. Rogers is using this as an excuse to push its roms? Yes, and it will use every excuse available. Do I like the update? Certainly no, BTW I haven't updated my phone yet. If not, why the hell am I defending Rogers? Just being objective (4). Will I keep defending Rogers? No. Yes, yes, I got defeated Not really just not worth it So y'all be cool

 

[damnmad]

CBC News - Consumer Life - CRTC forces cell firms to change 911 systems


edit: added this:

Note the compliance deadline.

One last thing Thanks Akkuzo for this link. it will help me

Wireless 911 service in Canada: how and where it works | CRTC

Navigate to the end "What if I have a cellphone but do not subscribe to any service?"
Read that section. @vikingisson See my friend, they do need data. Not said particularly, but please-- ok ok fine that's not enough for you ok.
Anyways thanks a lot Akkuzo.
Y'all cool down, get a beer

 

[vikingisson]

One last thing Thanks Akkuzo for this link. it will help me

Wireless 911 service in Canada: how and where it works | CRTC

Navigate to the end "What if I have a cellphone but do not subscribe to any service?"
Read that section. @vikingisson See my friend, they do need data. Not said particularly, but please-- ok ok fine that's not enough for you ok.
Anyways thanks a lot Akkuzo.
Y'all cool down, get a beer

Hey, I'd like a beer but not to calm down. I'm fine, my data and all the rest work for me.

However, even after reading that less than technical review of 911 services you still don't understand how it works or how a voice call works. Voice calls are nearly always digital and have been digital for a long time now. The call *is* data and can easily contain GPS data. Voice calls are not on the same service as the data plan and don't use the same protocols but for sure it is digital. Data service is more like a typical IP network connection. One has nothing to do with the other and GPS doesn't need or rely on either to work. The GPS is capable of getting coordinates without any service at all. However your voice call can and does transmit other data for example, your ID/number, number dialed, SIM info, encryption keys, I could go on. GPS data is just another piece of data that can ride on the voice call if the software says to send it.

"What if I have a cellphone but do not subscribe to any service?"
To clarify the answer, they refer to NO SERVICE, i.e. a phone without any active voice plan at all. This doesn't mean anything to GPS at all. An uncontrolled phone will make a normal 911 call but not because it doesn't have a data plan.

Someone else can prove me wrong but I maintain that you're wrong, an E911 call that can access GPS data will send it over the same voice call and not require a data plan to work.

 

[GreatBigDog]

I didn't report this before because I thought it was a one off. The first time that I used quick settings app to adjust brightness my screen went completely black and i had to shine a light on it to get the brightness back up. Now tonight I was playing with the sceens and the same thing happened. It was repeatable but not every time switching, only maybe 25% of the time.

 

[damnmad]

Hey, I'd like a beer but not to calm down. I'm fine, my data and all the rest work for me.

However, even after reading that less than technical review of 911 services you still don't understand how it works or how a voice call works. Voice calls are nearly always digital and have been digital for a long time now. The call *is* data and can easily contain GPS data. Voice calls are not on the same service as the data plan and don't use the same protocols but for sure it is digital. Data service is more like a typical IP network connection. One has nothing to do with the other and GPS doesn't need or rely on either to work. The GPS is capable of getting coordinates without any service at all. However your voice call can and does transmit other data for example, your ID/number, number dialed, SIM info, encryption keys, I could go on. GPS data is just another piece of data that can ride on the voice call if the software says to send it.

"What if I have a cellphone but do not subscribe to any service?"
To clarify the answer, they refer to NO SERVICE, i.e. a phone without any active voice plan at all. This doesn't mean anything to GPS at all. An uncontrolled phone will make a normal 911 call but not because it doesn't have a data plan.

Someone else can prove me wrong but I maintain that you're wrong, an E911 call that can access GPS data will send it over the same voice call and not require a data plan to work.

Fine, fine fine, as you say. Understand it however you want.

 

[sconnelly]

QUESTION: Can people who have updated please report the difference in available RAM & ROM space on your Dreams and Magics now compared to previously? I have seen some reports that there is now a lot less space on the internal memory for installing apps.

Yes, I noticed this. But I guess this was expected, obviously the Sense UI should take more space than the plain UI that was previously on my Magic.

I am guessing I lost about 25-30 MB with the Sense UI.

However, much of the fault lies with Google in that programs must also reside in the same LIMITED memory space as running apps.

I need to look up that hack to move apps to the SD memory. I wonder if it will even work with the new Sense UI.

Please note: The loss of memory hasn't negatively impacted my Magic yet.

 

[sconnelly]

FYI: For anyone who wants to turn off "Sense UI" after the update and use the "old" home screen style, there is a video here:

To summarize: Go to Settings > Applications > Manage Applications > Scroll down to "HTC Sense UI" > Press > Scoll down to "Default" and clear the default.

Huh, why

Anyone with a HTC Magic in Canada should have the exact same user experience! This is the only logical result!

So if Sense UI on my HTC Magic is faster and more usable than before the update than how can other HTC Magic owners complain that the Sense UI is slower?

I am very pleased with this new interface with its Live Folders, new and highly useful widgets, more screens, and more responsiveness... How could anyone complain about this?

 

[sconnelly]

Hi all,

I read through this thread and was sad to see that nobody else is having the issue I'm having

Since doing the update I can no longer connect the phone to a PC for Sync or even to mount the SD card. When I plug in the phone I get the HTC Sync that shows up in the notification bar but the PC never shows it as connected. the option to mount the SD Card does not show up on the phone at all. I have tried a factory reset and a format of the card so far and still nothing. I have tried connecting it to a Mac, a Linux box and a Windows 7 box, same thing on all of them, the mount USB option is missing. Honestly I dont care about Syncing as I have never done that, don't see a need for it personally but not being able to mount the card is totally annoying!

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,
Ed.

I just confirmed that I have no difficulty mounting the uSD storage through USB. I am using Windows 7 and I am mounting the HTC Magic storage by way of an app called MountUSB.

 

[sconnelly]

I'm having the same problem with the weather widget. I can't add or delete any of the cities.

The maximum number of cities was preprogrammed. Delete a city, then you can add a new location.

 

[virtualahmad]

The maximum number of cities was preprogrammed. Delete a city, then you can add a new location.

The issue is that you CAN'T delete a city. Delete is greyed out

 

[sconnelly]

The brightness issue is for magic-sense users

I highly recommend the app called Quick Settings v1.8.5 author: beworker - locate it from the SlideMe market.

This app will successfully adjust your brightness (among other settings).

UPDATE: No, forget it! The brightness setting is only valid until I exit the app! Odd! Oh well, the brightness setting in the Settings/Sound & Display works.

 

[sconnelly]

The issue is that you CAN'T delete a city. Delete is greyed out

No problems for me, I deleted #15 (Paris?) and added New Orleans, LA!

I think I know what you are doing wrong. Slide to a city that is NOT the first (1/15) then press the MENU button. You should now find that the DELETE button works.

You're welcome.

 

[sconnelly]

Brightness Widgets
Tried the one by curvefish, worked fine for me. I cant be bothered to try more but I would recommend that those who are having trouble try another widget (there's like a half dozen on the market)

This widget (like others) does not work! What ever brightness level I choose, my HTC Magic will ALWAYS default back to the level I had set in the configuration.