HUGE vertical disparity in 3D!

[Karel Bata]

I've had a HTC Desire for a couple of years and love it dearly. No complaints, except for the scratched lens cover issue, which I've resolved by punching the cover out.

I've not bought a EVO 3D camera yet, but am looking forward to owning one. However i am shocked by what I see in this YouTube video 3D Video Recording Sample from HTC EVO 3D

There are really bad vertical disparities between the cameras. This appears to be common on the videos from this camera I see on YouTube.

Vertical disparities are completely unnatural and a MAJOR cause of viewer discomfort if viewed over a long period. In the video there it is about 10 pixels. That is outrageous!

"Any other type of disparity in your image (vertical, rotational, zoom, keystone or temporal) will cause the viewers eyes to strain to accommodate. This can break the 3D effect and cause muscular pain in the viewer

 

[SVN S1X TW0]

I had no problem viewing the video... Seeing as how you stated that you don't have an EVO 3d, how are you seeing the 3d effect?

 

[evolution3d]

Well my computer monitor isn't 3D so the YouTube video doesn't show me anything. As far as viewing 3D video and pictures on the phone itself though, I haven't had any issues. You have to look straight on at it (no angles) and it doesn't bother me one bit.

 

[falconey]

Yeah I'm interested to know how you are viewing the video if you don't own the phone. Do you have a 3d monitor or something. Either way I have heard very few complaints about the 3d feature. It has it's limitations, but I don't think ppl are going to be running their phones back to sprint.

 

[novox77]

I viewed it just fine on my monitor. I had to change the default view of anaglyph to Side-by-side. then I reversed left and right frames. Then I changed it from half view to full view to see the correct aspect ratio. Then I applied a cross-eye viewing technique.

Not too much eye strain, and not sure what the OP is referring to. I suspect OP is referring to vertical parallax? I don't know.... the images line up perfectly to me.

 

[Karel Bata]

Ah yes, of course. If you're viewing this on a lenticular screen, like on the phone, you won't see this. You'll just a get a headache after an hour!

So how would you convince anyone in a shop that anything was wrong at all..? I doubt you can.

Here's a still from the video

Put your anaglyph glasses on and you will see 3D. So what on Earth is he on about?

Now look at it in 2D. There is a 5% vertical shift between the left and right image. You won't notice this on a lenticular screen unless you know what to look for, nor will you see it when viewing it in anaglyph or when free-viewing. But after a while it WILL give you a headache.

So it seems that most users are unaware that this is happening at all?

Playing through the video again I saw something worse. Here's the beginning. Again you can see the vertical shift, which appears to be fixed.

A second later the camera gets confused by all the movement:

You probably didn't see that either did you?

So does it matter? Indeed it does. This is seriously poor 3D and will undermine the illusion of volumetric space, cause eyestrain, perhaps even headaches, and completely renders this camera useless for any kind of serious S3D use.

This is a huge disappointment.

Now that someone's seen this and is pointing it out, I'm hoping that HTC sees fit to
a) fix the vertical disparity during manufacture, or allow some kind of pixel remapping by the user
b) with a software update allow the user to manually configure and lock the convergence so it doesn't go nuts during a shot.

 

[Karel Bata]

Watch this one in anaglyph with the glasses off. This is truly awful!

HTC EVO 3d test video - YouTube

And here's that vertical shift again, which you probably can't 'see' on your lenticular screen:

 

[falconey]

You obviously feel like you're on to something, but I doubt anyone is going to be watching an hour straight of home 3d videos on this device. If I were you I just wouldn't get the phone.

 

[Karel Bata]

"I doubt anyone is going to be watching an hour straight of home 3d videos on this device."

Don't be so sure.

I work in 3D movies, and I care about what I do, and it really annoys me to see a substandard product like this on the market. I also don't like to see people being conned. HTC know this is rubbish but figure that no-one can tell the difference.

The problems are fix-able, so they should fix them.

 

[CarrieK]

Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion. Having said that, it is my opinion that this is not a substandard product. I enjoy all the features this device has to offer, including 3D and mhl. Oh, and it is also a phone!

 

[SVN S1X TW0]

I think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. I watched the green hornet twice straight through and got no headache. Like it was stated, most people don't have trouble viewing the 3d, but I imagine some will get head/ eye aches after a bit. Either way, 3d isn't something that sold me on the device. So I'm good whether it works or not.

 

[Karel Bata]

Camera misalignment will of course have no impact on watching a pre-recorded movie. A movie, may I add, where millions will have been spent avoiding or correcting the issues this phone cheerfully has in bucketloads. They wouldn't do that if they didn't feel they needed to. Camera alignment is a HUGE issue in professional S3D yet completely absent here.

I can only sigh. So many people say they hate 3D for various reasons - online forums are full of them - and the reason is often that they're subjected to bad 3D, which really will give you a headache. Believe me, it does. I have spent hours editing misaligned 3D and it is horrible.

Yet you seem happy with the product. What can one say?



EDIT: The LG Optimus does not have these problems. I guess I'll be switching. A shame.

http://youtu.be/Wdb49yfyL8Q
http://youtu.be/qFDveeZrQdE

 

[jlear3]

Its a phone, not a thousand dollar 3d rig.. Calm yourself lol, if ya don't like it dont get it. I don't ever even use 3d unless I get bored or show my friends.. still hella nice phone IMHO.

 

[Karel Bata]

If LG can do it (and their 'rig' doesn't cost $1,000!) then so can HTC. I really don't understand the attitude here. You're paying a bit extra for the 3D, but don't seem to care that it's rubbish. Weird.

So is there really no-one here who would like to see the 3D camera on this phone work as it should? Or am I completely alone in this?

HTC can fix this. Buy they won't bother if they think the users don't care. Or are even scornful of anyone who flags up the problem...

 

[falconey]

"I doubt anyone is going to be watching an hour straight of home 3d videos on this device."

Don't be so sure.

I work in 3D movies, and I care about what I do, and it really annoys me to see a substandard product like this on the market. I also don't like to see people being conned. HTC know this is rubbish but figure that no-one can tell the difference.

The problems are fix-able, so they should fix them.

99% of folks are not going to be watching an hour straight of home 3d videos on this device. It's just not going to happen. Most ppl won't even have an hour of home 3d footage on the phone. Now I'm sure there are a select few professionals that could utilize a device like this on the go and they could potentially have that much exposure. The thing is, Sprint/HTC aren't marketing this phone to that group.

Now I'm not saying there isn't a problem, but I don't think it warrants your reaction. Maybe you could document your findings and respectfully send them to HTC customer service or support for their take.

 

[falconey]

If LG can do it (and their 'rig' doesn't cost $1,000!) then so can HTC. I really don't understand the attitude here. You're paying a bit extra for the 3D, but don't seem to care that it's rubbish. Weird.

So is there really no-one here who would like to see the 3D camera on this phone work as it should? Or am I completely alone in this?

HTC can fix this. Buy they won't bother if they think the users don't care. Or are even scornful of anyone who flags up the problem...

Actually the subsidized rate for this phone is on par with many of Sprint's flagship phones. I remember the EVO was 199 when I got it and teh Epic was 249. Neither of which had 3d.

 

[CarrieK]

I don't understand. If OP doesn't have the phone then what's the problem? I have shot several home videos in 3D and haven't had any issues viewing whatsoever. I can even play them on my non-3D tv using MHL and they display fine. I guess I am just missing the point.

 

[Karel Bata]

The point is that it would be nice if the 3D camera worked properly, as it is perfectly reasonable to expect. But it's been hobbled by carelessness. They probably had a deadline and other issues. Or, more likely, this side of it was handed over to someone who simply didn't understand what was needed.

When I got my HTC Desire I bought it as a phone, but was delighted that it also served as a very decent pocket camera. I was hoping this phone would do the same with 3D.

As you may have gathered I know a thing or two about S3D and I maintain the issues I've flagged up really should not be happening. I'm amazed they are. They're not there in LG's product, so why should we have to put up with them? Because 3D on a phone is just a gimmick? Well, so was SMS once upon a time, and look what happened.

If you're not that impressed by 3D on a phone, maybe that's because the 3D on your phone is just not very good...

If HTC can't be bothered, I hope they allow third parties to write apps that will fix this.

 

[CarrieK]

Hi OP. I guess what I don't understand is if you don't have the phone then how can you determine it is subpar and doesn't work appropriately? Are you saying it isn't compatible with the accepted standards? Not trying to be difficult. I just know from my personal experience and the experiences of others here that this hasn't been an issue for us. Are you doing a comparison of the LG vs HTC for purchasing purposes or are you saying that the LG is better and we shouldn't "settle" for the HTC?

 

[falconey]

The point is that it would be nice if the 3D camera worked properly, as it is perfectly reasonable to expect. But it's been hobbled by carelessness. They probably had a deadline and other issues. Or, more likely, this side of it was handed over to someone who simply didn't understand what was needed.

When I got my HTC Desire I bought it as a phone, but was delighted that it also served as a very decent pocket camera. I was hoping this phone would do the same with 3D.

As you may have gathered I know a thing or two about S3D and I maintain the issues I've flagged up really should not be happening. I'm amazed they are. They're not there in LG's product, so why should we have to put up with them? Because 3D on a phone is just a gimmick? Well, so was SMS once upon a time, and look what happened.

If you're not that impressed by 3D on a phone, maybe that's because the 3D on your phone is just not very good...

If HTC can't be bothered, I hope they allow third parties to write apps that will fix this.

You are right. I am taking my device back today.

 

[evolution3d]

Actually the subsidized rate for this phone is on par with many of Sprint's flagship phones. I remember the EVO was 199 when I got it and teh Epic was 249. Neither of which had 3d.

Don't forget the Photon which is out right now is also $199.

OP, we are not paying a premium for 3D in the EVO. It's actually more of a steal, a bonus we got over other phones available right now. I can assure you the EVO 3D cost significantly more to build than other $199 phones on the market right now. As a repair technician for Sprint I have to order the parts all the time and can tell you that the EVO 3D parts are 30-40% more expensive than the parts in your HTC Desire.

 

[marctronixx]

this thread is going no where fast.

the OP of this thread clearly is passionate about the 3D on the htc evo 3D handset.

duly noted sir.

however bashing your point continually over and over will lead to no where. many people here are satisfied with the handset. You are not. Fine. report it to HTC and list your issues. HTC will respond and maybe even open a ticket to get more info from you.

coming here and continually speaking about it is not going to sway people who are satisfied.

for the record here on my background, I am a Steadicam Operator. 12 years. Was taught by the inventor.

I have about 14 months of Stereoscopic Photography under my belt. I have worked with ESPN, Warner Bros. and some other smaller productions on some 3D flicks. I have consult with a friend who worked on Avatar 3D to get his experience on 3D rigs and also on a female who is a S3D camera op in LA. I have used 3D rigs from a mom and pop start up company all the way up to Vince Pace's rigs. I have 2 50 Inch plasma 3D displays custom calibrated based off an engineer who was involved with 3D back in the 80's at home that I use to view 3D content I personally have shot so I can make sure my operating is on par with shooting in 3D.

The above was not to brag it was to show I, too, really want to see 3D take off in a good way. There are other cats on this forum who are into S3D such as moderator Novox. HE has made threads that speak about the 3D use on this handset and they have been very good reads. perhaps you should search up on them.

the htc evo 3D helps to get people "used" to using 3D. some will get it, some wont. the videos you see uploaded to youtube go through compression and other lossy steps. the video you posted above may not be a good 3D video, however there are many other good videos that will show the 3D effect on the handset.

I personally see the shortcomings in the 3D camera system on the htc evo 3D. this handset has many features in it and shortcuts had to be made.

you cant expect to get 3D Synchronous control out of this handset!! you cant manually adjust convergence and inter-ocular either. you cant expect to go to Bexel and rent this camera to be used on a professional sports game or feature! its a phone that pull off the 3D effect as best it can in the conditions its in (tiny package with shortcuts).

as 3D evolves into smaller devices the tech will improve to where you may be able to get control of such adjustments.

IN closing, OP, we all understand your passion. continuing to preach about the short falls here AFTER many people feel that they are getting good use of the 3D effect, will make you come off as a troll, and we do not want that. Your expertise could be beneficial to the forum and even to HTC! so why not follow the advice of others and reach out to HTC and voice your concerns. Again, your passion is noted. you have made your point. lets move on.

 

[CarrieK]

You are right. I am taking my device back today.

Lol what would us mindless idiots do without someone to tell us what is good for us? I'm sorry but this sort of condescending post (not the one I am quoting now but the ones from OP) really irritates me and I find it downright offensive. If OP or anyone else wants a different device then he or she should get one, but please don't criticize those of us who selected this one and are pleased with our choice. The OP may have a different intent but he doesn't even own this one or the one he claims is better.

 

[CarrieK]

Excellent post marc, with one correction... OP stated he does not even own this device yet he is telling us who do own it to return it...

 

[SVN S1X TW0]

The 3d technology doesn't cost the consumer anything more to input. This phone is the same cost as any other new generation device. Its a free feature. Besides that, how many people will take only 3d pictures? I know that anything I share, on face book, want to print, send to friends over text and whatever, ill use normal 2d pictures. And besides this, I'm still not seeing any issues here. You seem to be making them up. I don't have any problems with my phone and its cameras in relation to picture quality in 3d. It works as advertised and works well.

Besides this, I didn't buy it for the 3d. I got it because its the next step in the EVO line, and its got a bad ass processor. It's fast as balls. I love it and I think this processor type is much more future proof than the older Tegra 2 in the photon. They don't work the same so can't really be compared directly. I'm happy, most other users are happy, and you are not. Always someone out there who didn't like the best thing ever made I guess.