YES, you need a task killer app for the Eris. PERIOD.

[newsradio]

No, you don't.

When I used a task manager, I never came CLOSE to hitting 30 MB even when I was incessantly killing tasks. Now I just use the back button to exit programs. My battery life is over 24 hours with moderate usage every day and my Eris rarely lags (and when it does, I clear cache out of my largest programs and it's fine).

Use them if you want, but they're more trouble than they're worth.

Sure, if you're just using it a regular phone you probably dont but this is a smart phone and most people use it for more than just a phone and checking Emails....there is no arguing here, multitasking without task killer apps is really slow.

 

[pkopalek]

Seems that way.

Of course useful apps do come along that address issues the device/software developers did not choose to address.

I don't think task killers fall into that catagory with the Eris, though. I could be wrong, but it is explained rather well in OTD's special post about it.

The developers responsible for the device and its software also cannot control what develops as far as apps. Apps with memory leaks, apps that use sensors, network, processor time, etc, in the background, and apps that don't close themselves (most) all add to the formula.

As I've stated, and I'll repeat, if you're downloading a lot of apps like those I've mentioned, and not paying attention to the settings, and/or downloading known background resource hog apps, having a task killer is a good idea.

It's easy to create a repeatable experiment, where I open 5 apps on my phone, push 'Back' out of each one, and then hand you my phone.

After 15 seconds of you not being able to stand how slow it is, you can 'kill all', and watch the difference.

***It's laughable to say that "Android 1.5 doesn't need a task killer", given the plethora of poorly written/resource hogging apps that are easily and openly available on Market. It's not a "Needs or doesn't need" issue. Not everyone will benefit a task killer. Again, it depends completely on the apps you use, and how you use them. Configure your apps conservatively, and avoid known resource hogging/sensor using/partial awake programs, like many users on this forum who are saying you don't need a task killer, and your phone will work just fine. Without a task manager, MY phone CAN be laughably laggy. I use a lot of apps (including Remote Desktop and VNC apps for work), and manage which ones are opened. I have to. Many people don't.

 

[rick311]

I dont think you will get a response from OTD on this matter. I believe OTD has a bit too much class from what I have read of her posts to jump in on what it obviously a taunt.

Wow! I have to admit that I am thoroughly impressed by all the facts and figures you show here in your post. All that solid scientific data you used to prove that everyone everywhere must have a task killer if they aren't running the Nexus One. Oh..wait....that's right, you didn't show any facts, figures or proof of any kind that someone MUST have a task killer on their phone. I was so impressed by the big bold "Yes you do" and the words proven and confirmed that I forgot to pay attention. The 100% was REALLY impressive too.

Seriously? Why do you care if anyone uses a task killer? Are you apart of the task killer union? Are you a task killer developer? Is it like the movie It's a Wonderful Life, does an angel get their wings every time a task killer is downloaded? Really, what is it that makes you join a forum today and start running off at the mouth about stuff like this?

I did notice you only posted this in here too. Why not in the Sprint Hero, Hero, G1, Mytouch, Cliq, Moment or Magic forums. None of them are equal to the Nexus One. Shouldn't they be privileged to the wealth of knowledge you have to offer? I'm sure they would love to hear some of your ramblings about this or to put it more simply....go troll someplace else.

 

[JimmyRayBob]

Sure, if you're just using it a regular phone you probably dont but this is a smart phone and most people use it for more than just a phone and checking Emails....there is no arguing here, multitasking without task killer apps is really slow.

Well I guess we can mark this thread solved .... "there is no arguing here".


On with my life now ....

 

[Frisco]

The developers responsible for the device and its software also cannot control what develops as far as apps. Apps with memory leaks, apps that use sensors, network, processor time, etc, in the background, and apps that don't close themselves (most) all add to the formula.

As I've stated, and I'll repeat, if you're downloading a lot of apps like those I've mentioned, and not paying attention to the settings, and/or downloading known background resource hog apps, having a task killer is a good idea.

It's easy to create a repeatable experiment, where I open 5 apps on my phone, push 'Back' out of each one, and then hand you my phone.

After 15 seconds of you not being able to stand how slow it is, you can 'kill all', and watch the difference.

That all makes a lot of sense, especially because embedded in your remarks is the notion that task killers are not necessarily for all users with their varying load-habits on their devices.

So, it could be concluded then, that TKs do have their place, as long as we're not trying to convince all users that they must have one for best performance.

 

[OfTheDamned]

Its not JUST about loading apps in and out or memory. When the apps you ALREADY have loaded into memory need MORE memory this reallocation cripples performance and again causes more LAG. This is easy to understand and it is a fundamental fact of how the Eris operates and the root cause of some serious lag when the phone is low on memory.

Basically there are two types of lag on the Eris.

1. Lag due to the slow CPU which causes delays in bringing up menus, scrolling of many types, HTC MP3 player has some high lag due to the slow CPU when switching songs especially when using the widget, the SERIOUS dial pad lag that everyone is complaining about, ect....

2. And the lag we get from memory reallocation when your memory is low (=<30mb) which is easily solvable with task killer apps.

Once again, I have to just say...Wow! More "facts" that are now easy to understand. It is almost like they are new AND improved. I am confused thought, when did the mp3 player start getting lag and high lag at that? I've never experienced lag from the mp3 player. Are you sure you are using it right? I use the widget majority of the time too. So not sure what you are even talking about there. Dial pad lag? I admit to not using the dial pad all that much so I don't have yet to experience the "SERIOUS" lag you are referring to there either. I do have wonder why you are letting your phone get below 30 MB in the first place. How much garbage have you installed on your phone?

Sure, if you're just using it a regular phone you probably dont but this is a smart phone and most people use it for more than just a phone and checking Emails....there is no arguing here, multitasking without task killer apps is really slow.

I use mine for more than just a phone and email and I have no lag. I have two of the most complained about apps on my phone too. Yet, I don't have a task killer and still have no lag. I can multitask just fine and it isn't slow at all. So you need to come up with something else to explain why I HAVE to have a task killer on my phone.

 

[OfTheDamned]

The developers responsible for the device and its software also cannot control what develops as far as apps. Apps with memory leaks, apps that use sensors, network, processor time, etc, in the background, and apps that don't close themselves (most) all add to the formula.

As I've stated, and I'll repeat, if you're downloading a lot of apps like those I've mentioned, and not paying attention to the settings, and/or downloading known background resource hog apps, having a task killer is a good idea.

It's easy to create a repeatable experiment, where I open 5 apps on my phone, push 'Back' out of each one, and then hand you my phone.

After 15 seconds of you not being able to stand how slow it is, you can 'kill all', and watch the difference.

***It's laughable to say that "Android 1.5 doesn't need a task killer", given the plethora of poorly written/resource hogging apps that are easily and openly available on Market. It's not a "Needs or doesn't need" issue. Not everyone will benefit a task killer. Again, it depends completely on the apps you use, and how you use them. Configure your apps conservatively, and avoid known resource hogging/sensor using/partial awake programs, like many users on this forum who are saying you don't need a task killer, and your phone will work just fine. Without a task manager, MY phone CAN be laughably laggy. I use a lot of apps (including Remote Desktop and VNC apps for work), and manage which ones are opened. I have to. Many people don't.

We agree, for the most part, on this. If you are running well written apps there is no need for any of this stuff. On the other hand, if you are running stuff that wasn't designed right, then you may end up needing something to fix those problems. My only question is, why would you want any of this stuff on your phone if it causes problems? I understand when people, like you, need stuff for work, but many of the people out there just have a bunch of garbage loaded to their phone. I think someone is far better off taking out the trash than adding a method of sorting that trash in their living room.

 

[doogald]

....there is no arguing here, multitasking without task killer apps is really slow.

So you need to come up with something else to explain why I HAVE to have a task killer on my phone.

Controlled experiments would be perfect. So, newsradio, load a phone with a number of apps. Devise a testing procedure. Do a number of trials that measure the length of time it takes to do these task (including any measurable lag) and battery life with and without a task killer. Make sure that conditions are exactly the same - done in the same place, so radio conditions are the same, etc.

Then you will have 100% proof. Then there with be no arguments. Until then, this is basically a "Palm is better, no Pocket PC is better", "Windows is better, no Mac is better" argument that is basically a waste of time without measurable facts.

 

[OfTheDamned]

I dont think you will get a response from OTD on this matter. I believe OTD has a bit too much class from what I have read of her posts to jump in on what it obviously a taunt. If you are going to put some definitive statement like "YES, you need a task killer app for the Eris. PERIOD." and use numbers like %100 you had better provide some proof of why this is true or at least some credentials of why you are qualified to make this statement (I sure am not). One thing I like about OTD and others that have voiced out on this subject (which is a big one when you think about it) is that everyone is encouraged to try it with and without task killers to see which they like. New owners will jump in on this thread and believe that their phone will not work properly without 3rd party apps installed. Even Vz reps are believing the hype a bit too much and telling people to get task killers immed., without trying the phone as it is. I have tried it both ways and am using the back button to exit apps now as well as managing my wifi, gps, and bluetooth conn. only when needed and finding the device working about the same as with a task killer. The end result on my end is, yes a task killer may help free up memory to an extent but other background processes fill in that freed up memory and tasks that are killed, most of the time, restart within minutes. Final conclusion is not a huge difference either way which is a long stretch from "YES, you need a task killer app for the Eris. PERIOD." and %100. As far as OTD getting pissed and jumping in hot on this, don't count on it.

I agree...

Well, so much for that theory. Good response, though!!

While I certainly do appreciate your high opinion of me and in some respects wish that I could just be above it all, how could I not respond? Although I will say that I wasn't mad in anyway. I actually laughed my whole way through this thread.

 

[Anthony1]

There seems to be an awful lot of these 'do I need a task killer or not?' threads.

It's a bit like arguing about needing a hammer or not. If you need one then you need one, if you don't then you don't.

A task killer is a tool like any other. If you need that tool, and know how and when to use it then great. If you don't need it and/or don't know how to use it then don't get it. It's pretty simple.

 

[jreed2560]

We agree, for the most part, on this. If you are running well written apps there is no need for any of this stuff. On the other hand, if you are running stuff that wasn't designed right, then you may end up needing something to fix those problems. My only question is, why would you want any of this stuff on your phone if it causes problems? I understand when people, like you, need stuff for work, but many of the people out there just have a bunch of garbage loaded to their phone. I think someone is far better off taking out the trash than adding a method of sorting that trash in their living room.

+1 why would anyone want a program on his/her phone that hinders system performance at all?

If I dl something and after a couple of days I notice my phone is starting to lag, then its time to "take out the trash".

 

[OfTheDamned]

Controlled experiments would be perfect. So, newsradio, load a phone with a number of apps. Devise a testing procedure. Do a number of trials that measure the length of time it takes to do these task (including any measurable lag) and battery life with and without a task killer. Make sure that conditions are exactly the same - done in the same place, so radio conditions are the same, etc.

Then you will have 100% proof. Then there with be no arguments. Until then, this is basically a "Palm is better, no Pocket PC is better", "Windows is better, no Mac is better" argument that is basically a waste of time without measurable facts.

The difference is, that I am not telling anyone what to do here. If someone needs a task killer, then they should have one. I am not using their phone and I can't tell someone what to do. The whole reason any of this started was because I was sick and tired of people telling others that a task manager was a requirement for an Android phone. Like I've said, if you need it then ok, but don't tell everyone else that they have to have it. That just isn't the case. I think everyone should try their phone without it first and see how things go. Once you are a little more settled into the phone and know what you are doing, then look into it and see if it is something you need/want.

 

[coygianni]

I can see this is yet one of many topics that i doubt we'll ever see everybody I agree on

Haha...I'm going to do an experiment today.

I'm charging my eris up now as we speak and I am going to switch back to it and go Sans ATK or anything..

and then tomorrow I am going to reinstall it and see the difference.

I've tried this before for a few hours and maybe it was an anxiety but it seemed like the phone was even slower.

What confuses me is when I read reviews of the Eris, everybody was saying how amazing it is...It isn't bad but it's kind of unnerving when I read something about a device i have and people actually have the same device but a better experience(and i've had quite a few erises)

 

[jreed2560]

There seems to be an awful lot of these 'do I need a task killer or not?' threads.

It's a bit like arguing about needing a hammer or not. If you need one then you need one, if you don't then you don't.

A task killer is a tool like any other. If you need that tool, and know how and when to use it then great. If you don't need it and/or don't know how to use it then don't get it. It's pretty simple.

I think you need to look at both sides of the arguement. Most people that say you NEED task killers are app happy people that dl anything and take very few steps to ensure their phone runs properly(i.e. backing out of apps, clearing cache, and following tips on improving battery life) I do say most because I wouldn't dare to assume that everyone who uses a task killer falls into that category.
People like myself and OTD (btw I like how she has an acronym now!) are careful of what we put on our phone and have an understanding of what our phone does and how to get the most out of it.
I don't claim to be an expert by any stretch on the imagination, so feel free to take what I'm saying a form your own opinion as to whether you NEED a task killer or not.

 

[Solitary]

Many people here seem to be confused and think that you dont need a task killer app for the Eris...

YES you do.

People will argue that Android is Linux based and that Linux reallocates memory as needed. This maybe true but it is this EXACT process that slows down the Eris and causes even more lag than you already have from the outdated old CPU.

This is proven because anyone can confirm that once the Eris reaches 30mb of memory the entire phone starts to LAG even more than normal and under multitasking the phone becomes ridiculously slow at times all due to this memory reallocation process. This has been 100% confirmed.

This is the MAIN reason why you need task killer apps, to keep your Eris memory free so that apps load fast instead of having the Eris reallocate memory and THEN load the app into memory. Not only that but when the apps you ALREADY have loaded into memory need MORE memory this reallocation cripples performance and again causes more LAG.

Some people simply cant understand this....this has been 100% proven.

Phones like the Nexus One are so fast that this memory reallocation process does not noticeably impact its performance.

huuuge LOL.

I dont use ATK, i even let my phone run for 300+ hours without reboot...any difference? No. Any difference after I rebooted it? Of course no.

 

[Caddyman]

here is my professional analysis

blah blah blah blah

 

[aleis]

here is my proof and source, i REALLY want to be disproved:

from my research, programs are going to run in virtual memory...if u have apps like i use (keepscreen, google maps, pandora) runnning in virtual memory...they are still running. using less (or no) memory...but still using battery. the OS has to maintain the state they are in...if the state is using gps or streaming...thats battery power being wasted.

"Linux uses a Least Recently Used (LRU) page aging technique to fairly choose pages which might be removed from the system. "

so it does kill processes by default...
however!
"When physical memory becomes scarce the Linux memory management subsystem must attempt to free physical pages. This task falls to the kernel swap daemon (kswapd).
The kernel swap daemon is a special type of process, a kernel thread. Kernel threads are processes that have no virtual memory, instead they run in kernel mode in the physical address space. The kernel swap daemon is slightly misnamed in that it does more than merely swap pages out to the system's swap files. Its role is make sure that there are enough free pages in the system to keep the memory management system operating efficiently. "

therefore...it can get to the point of OPERATING IN-EFFICIENTLY.
which would lead to sluggishness...even in the desktop OS.
and much like windows (mobile) linux does use virtual memory...having ALOT in common.
android is based off of linux kernel.
source.
http://www.tldp.org/LDP/tlk/mm/memory.html

 

[jreed2560]

I can see this is yet one of many topics that i doubt we'll ever see everybody I agree on

Haha...I'm going to do an experiment today.

I'm charging my eris up now as we speak and I am going to switch back to it and go Sans ATK or anything..

and then tomorrow I am going to reinstall it and see the difference.

I've tried this before for a few hours and maybe it was an anxiety but it seemed like the phone was even slower.

What confuses me is when I read reviews of the Eris, everybody was saying how amazing it is...It isn't bad but it's kind of unnerving when I read something about a device i have and people actually have the same device but a better experience(and i've had quite a few erises)

stretch it out over a couple of days with/without. That might give you a better data set. There are so many variables that one day might be a little flawed.

 

[ErisDroid?]

I will admit that I have started one of these threads. I learned my lesson.

I also learned that you do not need one, but if you choose to have one than good for you. I had one, and got rid of it. I noticed the performance improve.

Having said that, does any one know if they make a task killer to kill threads like this?

 

[xtiger]

All I know is it speeds up my phone a lot. I have a lot of apps loaded. Apps like sportstap, weatherbug, my coupons, etc... One's that automatically come on in the background.

The way I know my phone is running slow is by my email widget. When I flick thru it, and it takes over a second to flip to the next email, then I know it's running slow.

I then to go the task killer and kill just about all apps in the background, including the task killer and then go to my email widget again. Each email flips thru with ease and speed.

Now I don't know what everyone else experiences BUT I do know it speeds up my phone drastically.

 

[OfTheDamned]

here is my professional analysis

blah blah blah blah

There was no need for you to start getting all technical on us like that.

 

[Caddyman]

sometimes i get out of hand, i know.

 

[ludist210]

Sure, if you're just using it a regular phone you probably dont but this is a smart phone and most people use it for more than just a phone and checking Emails....there is no arguing here, multitasking without task killer apps is really slow.

And I use it as a Smart Phone. I check e-mails whenever I get them. I text. I check my Facebook on there. I surf the web. I play games. I use "potpourri" apps like Google Sky Map on a regular basis. I get directions from Google Maps.

My battery still lasts at least 24 hours, usually longer. Much better than when I used a task manager/killer.

Argue until you're blue in the face with me on this one, but until you come with actual numbers or a credible source, I'm not listening.

 

[Frisco]

here is my professional analysis

blah blah blah blah

At least this thread hasn't degenerated into speculation about the Android 2.1 update and when it's coming.

Nobody's even mentioned the Android 2.1 update and when it's likely to come (probably February 12th, like OTD says).

 

[Jlopcpa]

Wow this is better than the old Palm vs. Window Mobile debates....which at the end of the day came down to the same conclusion. There is no correct answer, it is a matter of personal opinion and each users individual experiences.

The problem I have is that this forum is used by people of varying degrees of experience and knowledge including a lot of people who have a smart phone for the first time...and to have a post that says you must have this is doing a complete disservice to them. NO THEY DONT NEED it...heck they are probably having a hard time figuring out how to use the pre-installed apps as it is.

To make a blanket statement, without much support, I might add, is just plain stupid. It would be like me telling my clients that they all need to have a certain accounting system, when in fact until I know what they plan on doing or how they plan on running there business I can not advise them.