Legalities of Recording "Radio"

[lordofthereef]

I am pretty sure recording the radio (as in the airwaves deal) is legal. What about satelite radio? And streaming radio (ie pandora)?

 

[starxpilot]

I'm not sure but if I remember correctly, whatever is played on the Radio, its open range, free to grab.

I can't recall how that rule works but some songs aren't played on the radio for monetary reasons. (Its not cause of PA, trust me, any song can be censored)

 

[lordofthereef]

Then I guess the question is, is satelite radio and streaming radio covered under the same laws?

 

[RiverOfIce]

Ok, this is a huge slippery slope. Recording the radio is not legal in most countries, including the united states. But it semi legal to have the recordings, because of fair use. But that only covers non digital media, ie tapes. Once you move to digital copies the world changes very quickly. With digital the only legal copy has to be on DAT tapes that are probably not made any more.

Ok, now about internet radio, it is 100% illegal to copy, record, and reproduce any digital radio copy. Any means that you would use to make a copy of the radio station, will violate the DMCA, any means, period, end of subject.

Now here is the stupid part. Even if you don't crack/hack the copyright protection it is still 100% illegal. All they have to do is show intent of copy protection, they don't actually have to make it effective. So any means to copy the digital distribution, ie internet radio, is illegal, even if you don't have to do anything to copy it.

 

[lordofthereef]

So what about television? Is that something different then? How are DVRs and application made for recording TV legal? I am talking about the stuff you can go and buy in Best Buy, not some application downloaded from some shady foreign website.

 

[RiverOfIce]

So what about television? Is that something different then? How are DVRs and application made for recording TV legal? I am talking about the stuff you can go and buy in Best Buy, not some application downloaded from some shady foreign website.

The applications are strictly illegal. The DVR's are not illegal because like the DAT they only make 1 copy of the file and do not allow the file to be transferred out of the box. You can not take your copy of the dvr recorded program and take it to the neighbors house. If you do have one that allows it, it is not illegal to sell, just illegal to use. The DMCA was one of the most hack together contradicting and HIGHLY illegal documents that was ever signed into law. But since it is law, we have to legally follow it.

But once again, this comes down to a grey area that the copyrighted material made a effort, even the laziest, to stop copying. If they do not encrypt, lock, or otherwise require to encode or decode the material then you can record it for personal use under fair use. All most all over the air broad cast and tv shows that come to your cable box can be copied with fair use. BUT... if the creators of those shows take you to court and say we use a "insert worthless copyright protector here" to prevent you from copying, they are going to win. But once again, most tv show are not encoded or encrypted to prevent copying on tv. Every internet radio stream is. Even if you where to just record it from a speaker, they can argue infringement. Mod please delete this if it breaks the rules.

But... if you do not have to go to insane measures to copy it, then you are probably within fair use. Just don't think you can fall back to fair use in courts. But understand this, you can be sued for doing nothing. It takes about 30 seconds to spoof an ip address. The record companies will record the spoofed ip address and sue you. They will threaten you, even if they have zero proof to settle out of court.

If you settle you get hit with a few thousands of dollars. If you do not you get hit with a few hundreds of thousands of dollars. And you did not do anything. So yes it might be considered fair use, but do not think about trying to defend yourself in court with that. RIAA gets some class ? The Register

 

[lordofthereef]

I am aware of this restriction on DVRs, but what about computer TV tuner cards (like Pinnacle) sold at Best Buy with software for recording. These files are easily transferable from one device to the next. How are they being sold by retailers if they are strictly illegal? (note: I am not saying you are wrong, because I don't know. Rather, I am simply asking some questions.)

So in other words, current laws are extremely flawed, and rather than make the laws more fitting we are working on giving these more leniency to screw the people? (referring to the "internet censorship" proposals)

 

[Bob Maxey]

Ok, this is a huge slippery slope. Recording the radio is not legal in most countries, including the united states. But it semi legal to have the recordings, because of fair use. But that only covers non digital media, ie tapes. Once you move to digital copies the world changes very quickly. With digital the only legal copy has to be on DAT tapes that are probably not made any more.

Ok, now about internet radio, it is 100% illegal to copy, record, and reproduce any digital radio copy. Any means that you would use to make a copy of the radio station, will violate the DMCA, any means, period, end of subject.

Now here is the stupid part. Even if you don't crack/hack the copyright protection it is still 100% illegal. All they have to do is show intent of copy protection, they don't actually have to make it effective. So any means to copy the digital distribution, ie internet radio, is illegal, even if you don't have to do anything to copy it.

I know, it is wikepedia, but it is a fairly accurate look at how the law might apply in some cases.

Audio Home Recording Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[SUroot]

In the UK, the law for radio was the same as TV. You can record anything that is free-to-air so long as you dispose of it after a certain amount of time. This really covered VHS for TV though, which is outdated now.

Its probably not much help to know this, but I decided to say it anyway.

 

[chevere]

Bottom line: recording an Internet stream that doesn't allow downloading is almost certainly illegal, at least in the US. When RECORDING an audio stream you are recording an analog stream - thus no digital data to impede the recording process. Speakers ( freestanding or in headphones / ear buds) are analog. That's why sound cards have DACs - digital to analog converters. The sound that goes to the speakers has been converted from digital to analog. When you record a stream the sound you are capturing is meant for speakers - analog. No one can tell that you are not just listening. When the audio enters the computer for recording the DAC works in reverse - analog to digital so the computer can save the audio as a file. But every music file you record and save is illegal. If your computer or media player is inspected by law enforcement you can be busted for every illegal audio file. If your folder where these files are kept is accessed by a music service this may also discover the illegal files. The music industry has complained to lawmakers ( US that I know of ) about this. They proposed that new receivers have safeguards preventing unknown recordings. No action as of now. So basically it is your ass on the line if you record.

I never heard of anything like this but there is the possibility that software could exist on a Windows PC or Mac that can detect recording. If you played the stream from the same computer you were recording on the original could be compared to the new recorded digital file. Enough similarities could exist to raise red flags.

Video is all digital. You would need an encryption breaker ( illegal ) or a vcr ( analog and also illegal ) that would record the video in lower quality from a screen. TV can legally be recorded these days pretty much only on a DVR which will limit viewing to set parameters.

 

[Bob Maxey]

Bottom line: recording an Internet stream that doesn't allow downloading is almost certainly illegal, at least in the US. When RECORDING an audio stream you are recording an analog stream - thus no data.

You are quite confused. There is indeed a "data stream" with analog. Not ones and zeros, but the data is still conveyed. Be in Edison Cylinders, records, 8-track tape, a CD, or Internet Stream, data is conveyed. Digital or analog, if it is protected, you must comply with the owner's rules and rights; if specific rights are not stated, you must comply with the copyright laws of the US of A.

 

[chevere]

You are quite confused. There is indeed a "data stream" with analog. Not ones and zeros, but the data is still conveyed. Be in Edison Cylinders, records, 8-track tape, a CD, or Internet Stream, data is conveyed. Digital or analog, if it is protected, you must comply with the owner's rules and rights; if specific rights are not stated, you must comply with the copyright laws of the US of A.

I stand corrected. What I was thinking was the lack of any DRM, encryption, or any other digital only data.
Yes, I know there was copy protection on analog vhs but when recording an analog audio stream the only data noticeable or relevant to the physical recording process is that pertaining to the sound. The legal data is conveyed and like I said throughout recording the streams is illegal in the US.