Rogers Waiver!

[zortoflaven]

Saw this on XDA:

https://your.rogers.com/web_auth/HT...ts-_-Consumer_Wireless_Eng-_-Form-_-HTCwaiver

Won't accept me IMEI, but it might just not be ready for us yet. This is what they should have done from the start! Back to Donut I go!

 

[XBrav]

Great find!

*EDIT*

WHOA WHOA WHOA
WHAT THE HELL IS THIS?!

"I will compensate Rogers for any costs it incurs relating to same."

Ok. I understand that I accept all liability. But what situation would arise that I would need to compensate Rogers? This is no lawyer speak... This is just a very suggestive line.

 

[damnmad]

Amazing. Love that guy

 

[zortoflaven]

Great find!

*EDIT*

WHOA WHOA WHOA
WHAT THE HELL IS THIS?!

"I will compensate Rogers for any costs it incurs relating to same."

Ok. I understand that I accept all liability. But what situation would arise that I would need to compensate Rogers? This is no lawyer speak... This is just a very suggestive line.

It is indeed a strange clause. I too can't think of any situation that would require providing them with compensation.

 

[damnmad]

They have to get a lawyer because someone sued them as they couldn't call 911 with your phone?

 

[GreatBigDog]

It is indeed a strange clause. I too can't think of any situation that would require providing them with compensation.

They get sued by a third party because your phone reboots when you try to dial 911. So if you are not sure that the 911 issue doesn't affect you or are unwilling to keep your GPS off to prevent reboot, then you better apply the update.

I can lay some pretty good odds that Rogers will be relentless in either getting you to update or use the waiver and will not let up until one or the other is done.

 

[vikingisson]

We knew it would come to this and it has been mentioned a few times as a way out of the update. But I don't like it, I already bought the phone and agreed to the service plans and that is enough lawyer servitude.

That being said I don't think it is a good idea to stay on the extra old crippleware that came with the phone. The 911 bug is actually important to get fixed and you're not smart to stay on the broken version. I fixed it last year by updating to 1.6 so I'm ok but I'm not signing another form to stay online. I also have data so no reason to sign it.

If they want to check ROMs or whatever they are doing that's ok as long as they only tag the original buggy ROM version and leave everyone else alone. I might have an unlocked phone and unless I'm running the broken 1.5 I want to be left alone about it.

 

[zortoflaven]

They get sued by a third party because your phone reboots when you try to dial 911. So if you are not sure that the 911 issue doesn't affect you or are unwilling to keep your GPS off to prevent reboot, then you better apply the update.

I can lay some pretty good odds that Rogers will be relentless in either getting you to update or use the waiver and will not let up until one or the other is done.

I was under the impression that in Canada (Quebec excluded in this case ) a person has no obligation to call 911 to summon aid for another party. Only a real asshat would not at least call 911 for someone, but if we have no obligation to do so I can't see how they can then sue us/Rogers.

 

[damnmad]

We knew it would come to this and it has been mentioned a few times as a way out of the update. But I don't like it, I already bought the phone and agreed to the service plans and that is enough lawyer servitude.

That being said I don't think it is a good idea to stay on the extra old crippleware that came with the phone. The 911 bug is actually important to get fixed and you're not smart to stay on the broken version. I fixed it last year by updating to 1.6 so I'm ok but I'm not signing another form to stay online. I also have data so no reason to sign it.

If they want to check ROMs or whatever they are doing that's ok as long as they only tag the original buggy ROM version and leave everyone else alone. I might have an unlocked phone and unless I'm running the broken 1.5 I want to be left alone about it.

I'm definitely out of it. I won't update my phone, and I would never sign that liability clearance thing. As with you, my phone has 1.6, and data is working fine. I do receive texts and calls but who cares as long as I can see 3G (which is 2G most of the time to save battery). Magic coming in 3-5 business days. Even if they find a way to detect my rom, I will get data back in 3-5 business days.

They did block all roms except their new one, but then many users reported having data (all had the original Rogers' radio and CM). I tried it, everything's been perfect since. The best thing anyone can do is put CM on their phone keeping the original radio. Network refresh and there you go, data, 1.6, root, and you can still hold Rogers liable

 

[damnmad]

I was under the impression that in Canada (Quebec excluded in this case ) a person has no obligation to call 911 to summon aid for another party. Only a real asshat would not at least call 911 for someone, but if we have no obligation to do so I can't see how they can then sue us/Rogers.

All phones must have access to 911. That can be used to sue someone.

 

[zortoflaven]

All phones must have access to 911. That can be used to sue someone.

I understand that, but this waiver signs away our right to sue Rogers for no 911. So they are covered from us turning back on them.

Its the whole 3rd party clause that is strange. Given that what I said above was correct (and it may not be!), I can't see any situation where my not being able to dial 911 can get Rogers sued by a 3rd party (and therefore Rogers coming to me for costs).

 

[damnmad]

If that 3rd party needs to make a call through your phone, and the phone reboots. That seems a situation for me. That would not get them to compensate you or the 3rd party (probably), but they'd spend money to get a lawyer. Who pays for the lawyer? YOU, yes you, you, you, customer.

Canada's Reliable Network <-nice signature. Don't take it. I'll sue you

 

[XBrav]

If that 3rd party needs to make a call through your phone, and the phone reboots. That seems a situation for me. That would not get them to compensate you or the 3rd party (probably), but they'd spend money to get a lawyer. Who pays for the lawyer? YOU, yes you, you, you, customer.

Canada's Reliable Network <-nice signature. Don't take it. I'll sue you

So wait,

IF another user USES your phone to dial 911 (because OF course you wouldn't do it yourself, not your problem right), and they decide to SUE Rogers because the call wouldn't connect (happens with some calls on my old Blackberry, so do I sue for non-connecting calls?), the owner will pay the lawyer costs?

Oh Rogers, you just admitted that we currently have every ability to sue over disconnecting calls, as we have not signed the waiver. Why couldn't your silly form just go as follows:

I, (state your name), agree to the following conditions:
1) Rogers has offered an update, and I have chosen not to implement the endorsed 911 update
2) Sign away any legal rights to sue Rogers due to the above condition
3) Will not receive any further requests too perform the update

Why.... WHY?!

 

[TriC]

LOL.. haha i'm not going to sign nothing.. rogers system is so easy to fool all you need to do is have a higher radio version or the same as the one that came with there 911 patch.. and your data will work with no problem. very simple.

 

[damnmad]

So wait,

IF another user USES your phone to dial 911 (because OF course you wouldn't do it yourself, not your problem right), and they decide to SUE Rogers because the call wouldn't connect (happens with some calls on my old Blackberry, so do I sue for non-connecting calls?), the owner will pay the lawyer costs?

Oh Rogers, you just admitted that we currently have every ability to sue over disconnecting calls, as we have not signed the waiver. Why couldn't your silly form just go as follows:



Why.... WHY?!

lol Just imagine man. You got hit by a car at 3AM, no one outside. Except for a 6-year-old kid who doesn't have a cell phone. He sees you, your phone thrown out of your pocket, yet almost brand new and perfectly able to make calls. So the 6-year-old takes the phone, tries to call 911, phone reboots. You go into a 7-year coma because the kid had to walk to a hospital and get an ambulance (he didn't wanna wake anyone up at that time to get a phone), so you can't sue Rogers or tell the kid not to. The 6-year-old decides to sue Rogers. Rogers gets one of its lawyers to defend the company against the 6-year-old. Supposing the lawyer gets paid by Rogers, someone will have to "compensate" Rogers. Smart, lawyer me.

BTW this same scenario won't be possible two months from now, not because 6-year-olds don't walk alone at night, but because they're gonna follow 7-year-olds and get cell phones.

And in case you try to emphasize the ONE AND ONLY weakness in my scenario (which I'd rather call something irrelevant to our culture again), which is the kid didn't wanna wake anyone up, seriously consider this. How would you like someone knocking your door at 3AM asking for a phone.

 

[XBrav]

lol Just imagine man. You got hit by a car at 3AM, no one outside. Except for a 6-year-old kid who doesn't have a cell phone. He sees you, your phone thrown out of your pocket, yet almost brand new and perfectly able to make calls. So the 6-year-old takes the phone, tries to call 911, phone reboots. You go into a 7-year coma because the kid had to walk to a hospital and get an ambulance (he didn't wanna wake anyone up at that time to get a phone), so you can't sue Rogers or tell the kid not to. The 6-year-old decides to sue Rogers. Rogers gets one of its lawyers to defend the company against the 6-year-old. Supposing the lawyer gets paid by Rogers, someone will have to "compensate" Rogers. Smart, lawyer me.

BTW this same scenario won't be possible two months from now, not because 6-year-olds don't walk alone at night, but because they're gonna follow 7-year-olds and get cell phones.

And in case you try to emphasize the ONE AND ONLY weakness in my scenario (which I'd rather call something irrelevant to our culture again), which is the kid didn't wanna wake anyone up, seriously consider this. How would you like someone knocking your door at 3AM asking for a phone.

damnmad,

I gotta admit, you just made my day! hah. True, that situation is definitely a possibility. For a person in my situation (Student, public transit transportation, 2 places to go (Campus, home)), the 911 issue is not exactly critical. I just find the whole liability factor kind of... vindictive?

The joke is that I'll see what happens next week when I put the Dream on PayGo. And what happens if you sign that form, and transfer ownership of the phone? Contract is nullified!

 

[damnmad]

damnmad,

I gotta admit, you just made my day! hah. True, that situation is definitely a possibility. For a person in my situation (Student, public transit transportation, 2 places to go (Campus, home)), the 911 issue is not exactly critical. I just find the whole liability factor kind of... vindictive?

lol, nice to know that I made your "night." Again, my lawyer skills

The joke is that I'll see what happens next week when I put the Dream on PayGo. And what happens if you sign that form, and transfer ownership of the phone? Contract is nullified!

Well, you've just made my lawyer skills worth a potato Seriously great idea.

EDIT: Didn't realize you were in Calgary. You beat my lawyer skills twice now.

 

[XBrav]

lol, nice to know that I made your "night." Again, my lawyer skills



Well, you've just made my lawyer skills worth a potato Seriously great idea.

EDIT: Didn't realize you were in Calgary. You beat my lawyer skills twice now.

Denny Crane.

 

[EvilGuyWhoEatsBrains]

What if the reason a 911 call fails isn't related to the bug that caused this mess in the first place?

Does this waive Rogers of all responsibility no matter what the issue is?

 

[damnmad]

Denny Crane.

lol that guy rocks.

What if the reason a 911 call fails isn't related to the bug that caused this mess in the first place?

Does this waive Rogers of all responsibility no matter what the issue is?

Yes it does.

 

[zortoflaven]

Accepted my IMEI when I did it just now. Hopefully that is the end of that! Back on Amon RA's donut rom.

 

[vikingisson]

This doesn't help if I want to use a different phone sometimes. Locking it to an IMEI is pointless for me. As it is my official phone is updated but I also have an unlocked phone and still get locked out. I'm getting really tired of that nonsense especially because my ROM is perfectly "safe" and shouldn't be shutdown like this.
Normally I'd never consider these kinds of waivers after the fact but since the law is useless I could ignore the bad taste this gives me if they would just leave me alone.

 

[bunhead]

These sorts of blanket wavers just make me feel dirty, however even with that said I signed the damn thing. I just have a feeling that this will blow up on me/us, I don't have any reason for this feeling other than the track record that rogers has in this issue.

 

[damnmad]

This waiver shows you how much they really care about our safety.

 

[abcdef123]

I know it's a few months late but I was looking into this issue and found this related link:

Rogers 911 debacle - 4r4nd0mninj4

Near the end of the page in a response to this rogers customers email about this clause:

"What this point means is that should you be unable to complete a 911
call from your HTC device due to not doing the 911 update as requested
by us, we will not be responsible for any damages or injuries relating
to such. Furthermore, it also means that should you decide to take
legal
proceedings against Rogers due to the inability of completing a 911
call, you would be responsible for any fees Rogers incurs due to the
proceedings"

The fact that this statement is public makes me feel better about accepting the waiver now.