Don't they make PDA's anymore?

[KlaymenDK]

Hi all,
first of all -- I do not intend this to be a flame or bash thread, but I have some questions to ask, some lead-in info to share, and have seen a number of these things 'blow up'. That's not my intention. I'm here for good, solid info. Really. I apologize in advance for the very long post, but I want to let you know where I'm coming from.


The whole post in a single sentence
I'm desperately on the lookout for a new and modern PDA that's also got a phone in it. It turns out that this is surprisingly different from a phone with PIM capabilities, and astoundingly difficult to find. I'm not yet sure that [an Android-based model] fits the bill; I need help to get some facts straight so that I can decide.
(Okay, so it was three (okay, four) sentences.)


Who am I?
I live in Denmark, where there is no T-Mobile or Verizon, which basically means that we get the hot new phones about a year after the US consumers. I'm pretty sure I can get the G1 off of eBay and get a phone subscription without a phone, though.

I've been using a Palm T3 pda for some years, I'd be so utterly lost without it that I and everyone around me refers to it as my 'Plastic Brain'. Before that I've been using a Psion Revo, and a Palm III and V, but that's long ago by now.

My brother recently retired his Psion Series 5 (of which he's used up at least four during the past more than a decade), switching to an iPhone. He likes it, but admits that the actual PIM functions are limited in comparison; it's more a phone and bling, and less a PDA.

Recently, I replaced my T3 with a Treo, mainly so that I would have my PDA and phone in one device, but it's not been all good: I miss the big screen, and its phone-centricness diminishes its usability from a PDA perspective (for instance, navigating and checking off the grocery list is more cumbersome; also, the device has less screen real estate and a whole additional keyboard/pad instead of just handwriting recognition).

But as we all know, PalmOS is dying. So, I'm desperately on the lookout for a new and modern PDA that's also got a phone in it. It turns out that this is surprisingly different from a phone with PIM capabilities, and apparently very difficult to find.

Also relevant to my story is that I don't use Google's services. I know that they're very good, but the whole "Google knows everything" issue is creeping me out. That is to say, I prefer keeping email on my own server instead of GMail, and my contact list, calendar, and all my pda-based notes and data on my own pda rather than 'in the cloud'.
(I repeat: this is not a flame or bash thread; this is just who and how I am.)

I have been writing some Palm apps, and am bound to write a number of apps for whatever new device I end up with, so it's important that this works. I say this because I use BSD/Linux at home, and so don't want to have to use a Windows- or Mac-based SDK (as with WinMo, Symbian, and iPhone). Android, seemingly as the only one, is programmable from a free OS, which is a major point.
I've installed the Android SDK and fiddled around with Android on the emulator (and only there, there are no Android phones on the market here in Denmark).

I'm not into photography, Facebook, Twitter, or any social networking. My web-connectedness requirements are slim to nonexistent; frankly, I get by very well without a browser. So you see, it really is a PDA with a phone that I need, not the other way around.


Q1: Android sans GMail?
Can you even use an Android-based phone if you don't have a Google account?


Q2: Phone book, or address book?
I'm used to having an address book where you can add separate addresses and phone numbers for home and work, and also store birthday and anniversary fields as well as additional notes. Also, the birthdays are automatically displayed in the calendar, and I have a separate utility for viewing all upcoming birthdays as a list.

It seems to me that the phone books of Symbian and Android are just that, phone books. I found out that Symbian does offer a birthday field, but you really have to dig to access it -- every time. Alas, I could not find a birthday field on Android, even within its developer documentation. I'd hate to have to write my own address book, though that would certainly be possible.


Q3: Where's the calendar?
I've looked around the emulator, but can find no trace of a calendar. Surely, it's there somewhere?


Q4: Productivity apps?
Is there a notepad? From Palm I'm used to having a simple note-taking app where I can capture small notes and categorize them into topics. Also, I'm relying heavily on a 3rd-party application that is an outlining text editor and task manager.


Q5: Market
I know that Android, and its Market is still very young, but I can't seem to find anything of this sort. Also, I can see a very shallow-looking Market web site, but see no way of buying or getting these applications to the phone. I suppose there is a login required; I'm obviously missing something, or looking the wrong place.


Q6: Local search
If there's a contact, or a note, or a snippet of information on the phone that I'm looking for, how do I search for it? The Menu->Search option just does a Google search on the web, not locally.


I apologize again for the very long post, and I do hope you'll shed some light on all my confusion. Thank you very much!

KlaymenDK

 

[punkzanyj]

Q1: Android sans GMail?
Can you even use an Android-based phone if you don't have a Google account?

You will need to sign in with a google account, if you don't have one I believe they have it set up on the phone to create one.

Honestly, if you don't trust google and aren't going to take advantage of it's features and applications, I'd say this phone isn't for you. You could use it, but it's a bit like buying a cat and training it to act like a dog. Certainly possible, but there's easy ways to get what you want. But I'll answer your questions as best I can.

Q2: Phone book, or address book?
I'm used to having an address book where you can add separate addresses and phone numbers for home and work, and also store birthday and anniversary fields as well as additional notes. Also, the birthdays are automatically displayed in the calendar, and I have a separate utility for viewing all upcoming birthdays as a list.

It seems to me that the phone books of Symbian and Android are just that, phone books. I found out that Symbian does offer a birthday field, but you really have to dig to access it -- every time. Alas, I could not find a birthday field on Android, even within its developer documentation. I'd hate to have to write my own address book, though that would certainly be possible.

The phonebook is very bare bones, you can add mulitple email and phone numbers, but when it comes to addresses and birthdays, it really just has a "notes" section. It's far easier to enter this information in gmail than on the phone, but I know you don't want to use the cloud as your backup.

Q3: Where's the calendar?
I've looked around the emulator, but can find no trace of a calendar. Surely, it's there somewhere?

There is a calendar app, it's basically like the email/contacts app, it's synced with Google Calendar, which, surprise surprise, is currently easier to edit online than on the phone. Setting up basic appointments is easy, but if you want to do custom reminders and complicated repeating patterns -- the desktop/laptop online experience has more features.

Q4: Productivity apps?
Is there a notepad? From Palm I'm used to having a simple note-taking app where I can capture small notes and categorize them into topics. Also, I'm relying heavily on a 3rd-party application that is an outlining text editor and task manager.

There is no native notepad, but the devs have really come through with this one. There are TONS of notepad apps. I use "OI Notepad" but there several that are good. It seemed like, for the first few weeks after launch, that all anyone was creating was tip calculators, notepads, and flashlight apps.

Q5: Market
I know that Android, and its Market is still very young, but I can't seem to find anything of this sort. Also, I can see a very shallow-looking Market web site, but see no way of buying or getting these applications to the phone. I suppose there is a login required; I'm obviously missing something, or looking the wrong place.

The Market can only be accessed on the phone. So you can only download market products from the phone. What you're seeing online are mirrors/previews. There isn't a login to the Market, it's tied to your phone account. Some devs do have their own websites and you can download from their websites, but the official marketplace is only accessible with the phone. I suppose there's a security reason for that or something.

Q6: Local search
If there's a contact, or a note, or a snippet of information on the phone that I'm looking for, how do I search for it? The Menu->Search option just does a Google search on the web, not locally.

There really isn't a phone search app. The only thing I can think of that partially meets this need is if I'm on the home screen, and I start typing it opens up the contacts and starts matching possible names after typing the second letter.


The phone is still very young. But it seems like it's just not going to be what you want -- at least not for the forseeable future. I personally think your post has been very fair, honest, and respectful. I appreciate the fact that you researched your questions on your own before bringing them here. You would be surprised how often we get questions that opening the user manual, or doing a 10-second web search would answer. Best of luck.

 

[KlaymenDK]

You will need to sign in with a google account, if you don't have one I believe they have it set up on the phone to create one.

Yeah that's what I thought. I'm not sure what the case is when you buy one used (say, eBay) but, having read the rest of your post, it seems to matter little.

The phonebook is very bare bones

Good to know I wasn't blind, but the matter in question was just other than I expected.

There is a calendar app, it's basically like the email/contacts app, it's synced with Google Calendar, which, surprise surprise, is currently easier to edit online than on the phone.

This I don't get: There's a calendar, but it's easier to use the online one? You mean, on the built-in web browser? Whatever the case may be, I think it's odd (inconvenient, at least) to have a mobile device essentially intended to be used in "read mode". I'd think you'd want to be able to enter/update/work with your data while you're on the go, otherwise it's not (much) better than having a pocket-sized print-out of your agenda.

There is no native notepad, but the devs have really come through with this one. There are TONS of notepad apps.

If there are lots of 3rd-party options now then that's just fine; it's just another thing I don't get -- how can they forget to (or choose to not) put a note-talking app in the standard feature set? It's such a basic item. Anyway, it is as it is, fine.

The Market can only be accessed on the phone. So you can only download market products from the phone. What you're seeing online are mirrors/previews.

Oh right, okay. Sort of like the iPhone app store, or Facebook, which you can't see unless you buy into it. I can understand the mechanics of it, but I don't find it a reasonable presentation to potential customers, it just seems too closed and no-peeking-until-you're-one-of-us like.

There isn't a login to the Market, it's tied to your phone account. [...] the official marketplace is only accessible with the phone. I suppose there's a security reason for that or something.

Uh-oh, you mean the phone or a Google account? Again, I can see the mechanics but find it dismal. It seems my being obstinate is really pushing me away from using Android.
(Side note: Sometimes I really, really wish I wasn't so conscious about privacy and security -- it makes so many things so much more difficult. I mean, I don't care much for the modus operandi of Facebook either, though I find social networking interesting and very useful -- in concept (check out Project Appleseed if you're interested in a much better (and much less widespread) implementation). If I were just like regular 'sheeple' I could just get over selling my privacy out and get to use all those nifty services!)

There really isn't a phone search app. The only thing I can think of that partially meets this need is if I'm on the home screen, and I start typing it opens up the contacts and starts matching possible names after typing the second letter.

Oh my. This is something I've really came to like and depend on on the Palm as a quick-access path to just about anything on the device. Reading up on the technicalities of data storage and cross-application access to ditto, I can see how implementing such a feature easily falls into the difficult-to-simply-impossible category. Very bad news.

The phone is still very young. But it seems like it's just not going to be what you want -- at least not for the foreseeable future.

Alas, I think I agree.
All in all, I clearly see that I'm expecting more than the average consumer, and certainly more than the average provider is currently offering. It just strikes me as odd that requirements which were the norm about 10 (!) years ago are now no longer deemed fitting.

I'm still left wondering what road to choose. I must say I had sorta hoped that Android would be it; if for no other reason then that I think it was my last remaining option.

I might have another look at Symbian, but I'm gloomy about the development environment being Windows-only, lacking an emulator, and featuring a much more cumbersome application deployment process; and its equally (compared to Android) poor address/phone book features.

I will also have to look into Palm's new WebOS, but as far as I can tell it's even more web-centric and offers little encouragement for local data storage.

Then there's the OpenMoko, which might be mature enough to be dependable ... within a few years. Oh sigh of sighs!

I personally think your post has been very fair, honest, and respectful. I appreciate the fact that you researched your questions on your own before bringing them here. You would be surprised how often we get questions that opening the user manual, or doing a 10-second web search would answer. Best of luck.

You have no idea how glad that statement makes me. Just the other day I had a 'fight' on Slashdot with a gent who ended up calling me a bigot and a moron. It's why I started this thread with a no-flame disclaimer, and it's good to see it worked.

 

[punkzanyj]

This I don't get: There's a calendar, but it's easier to use the online one? You mean, on the built-in web browser? Whatever the case may be, I think it's odd (inconvenient, at least) to have a mobile device essentially intended to be used in "read mode". I'd think you'd want to be able to enter/update/work with your data while you're on the go, otherwise it's not (much) better than having a pocket-sized print-out of your agenda.

No, I see my paragraph was confusing. There is a calendar app built into the phone, and yes there is a mobile version on the browser, however I wasn't talking about the mobile browser version.

Like most things, the phone version is limited. Even WinMo does that, the mobile versions of Word, Excel, and Powerpoint have probably 75% of the features of the full desktop versions.
Yes you can work with your data, to a degree, but if you need something that has a special repeat pattern or needs to send you a reminder 37 minutes before it starts -- you'll want to use the regular desk/laptop version rather than the phone.

If there are lots of 3rd-party options now then that's just fine; it's just another thing I don't get -- how can they forget to (or choose to not) put a note-talking app in the standard feature set? It's such a basic item. Anyway, it is as it is, fine.

Well two possibilities. At the time, Google didn't have it's own online notepad (not much call for it), although now it does, so I'm sure it's just a matter of time.
Second, a lot of things about this phone are basic, simplified, I prefer that than having a bunch of preloaded software that I have to uninstall or hack to remove. I appreciate that google isn't choosing what it thinks I need on my own phone. The devs have filled in the gaps with a lot of the features some might consider standard.
For example, if they hadn't left ringtone profiles up to the devs, we wouldn't have Locale -- an app that lets you set your phone to automatically change settings based on calendar appointments, time of day, location, contacts calling you, etc etc.
Some people may not want or need a notepad. It's certainly possible.

Uh-oh, you mean the phone or a Google account? Again, I can see the mechanics but find it dismal. It seems my being obstinate is really pushing me away from using Android.

Well originally, it was tied to the phone itself. I know this first-hand because I did a factory reset of my phone and when I opened the market, all my apps were listed in "my downloads" for me to re-download. I was a little more rowdy with my first G1 and had to get a replacement, and when I opened the market on the new phone ---- no apps waiting for me to download again. I had to think back and remember everything. I've heard rumors that with updates it's now tied to your account, not the handset, but not confirmed that in any way.

Oh my. This is something I've really came to like and depend on on the Palm as a quick-access path to just about anything on the device. Reading up on the technicalities of data storage and cross-application access to ditto, I can see how implementing such a feature easily falls into the difficult-to-simply-impossible category. Very bad news.

While flipping through the market today, I did notice an app that does this, can't remember the name, but someone is thinking of these things -- again, a bit of functionality that you depend on that someone like me never heard of and wouldn't use anyway. That's the benefit of this being so bare bones, it can be customized the way you want.

You have no idea how glad that statement makes me. Just the other day I had a 'fight' on Slashdot with a gent who ended up calling me a bigot and a moron. It's why I started this thread with a no-flame disclaimer, and it's good to see it worked.

To be honest, I read maybe the first two sentences and skipped/skimmed my way to your questions. To me, the way you asked the questions was respectful enough on it's own.

Technology seems to be moving in the direction of the cloud. There's a lot of website-based software that 10 years ago would've been something you had to buy and spend minutes to hours installing. I'm relieved that should my phone be obliterated -- I haven't lost all my contacts, calendar items and emails. I can even go to a library PC and see the information instantly. I can also just sign into a new phone and it all gets pulled back through for me. Not that much different than using exchange to sync.

I have concerns about privacy, too, but from what I've seen and read I have very little to worry about with Google. It's sufficiently anonymous from what I've learned. They've actually defended my privacy in court when people have tried to get them to give over user information. The thing is, the data they gather and analyzed is used to make improvements to their products and is often the springboard into other products. I'm not trying to convince you to change your mind, just pointing out that I'm not some sheep that just goes along because I'm getting free stuff out of it. I don't get junk mail from google, and they don't bug me to buy things, their ad placement is easy to ignore compared to others.

 

[KlaymenDK]

I have concerns about privacy, too, but [...] I'm just pointing out that I'm not some sheep that just goes along because I'm getting free stuff out of it.

I didn't mean to be offensive, please excuse me if I was. I just wanted to send off a reply between getting home late (from an Eagles concert ) and going to bed; I probably wasn't careful enough with my wording.

I know I'm a little bit fanatic, but I am very considering "getting down from my high horse" simply because I'm missing out on quite a lot.

Like most things, the phone version is limited. Even WinMo does that, the mobile versions of Word, Excel, and Powerpoint have probably 75% of the features of the full desktop versions.
Yes you can work with your data, to a degree, but if you need something that has a special repeat pattern or needs to send you a reminder 37 minutes before it starts -- you'll want to use the regular desk/laptop version rather than the phone.

Hm, okay. I would prefer to have a mobile device that's much more stand-alone, but again, it is what it is so thanks for clarifying.

> Local search
While flipping through the market today, I did notice an app that does this, can't remember the name, but someone is thinking of these things -- again, a bit of functionality that you depend on that someone like me never heard of and wouldn't use anyway. That's the benefit of this being so bare bones, it can be customized the way you want.

Hmm, I have to find out how much I can see of that Market ... it's going to be a big weight in the decision balance.

To be honest, I read maybe the first two sentences and skipped/skimmed my way to your questions. To me, the way you asked the questions was respectful enough on it's own.

Too late to come up with explanations -- I've already 'added to your repuration'.

Technology seems to be moving in the direction of the cloud. There's a lot of website-based software that 10 years ago would've been something you had to buy and spend minutes to hours installing. I'm relieved that should my phone be obliterated -- I haven't lost all my contacts, calendar items and emails. I can even go to a library PC and see the information instantly. I can also just sign into a new phone and it all gets pulled back through for me. Not that much different than using exchange to sync.

Yes, it's very nice to have everything automatically backed up, there exist Firefox extensions that back up your setup and bookmarks. I just wish there was an option to use 'the cloud' on my own web server instead of depending on some corporation. Obviously, I'll need to depend on corporations for services and connectivity, but for data storage I'd rather not.

But I might well end up doing just that anyway.

Thanks, and have a good weekend!

 

[KlaymenDK]

Hmm, I have a few follow-up questions, which I haven't been able to find a good answer to (using Google and so on):


Q7: Battery life
I hear that the expected battery life of a (new) G1 is "up to a full day", but it also seems to me that that is for users who talk a lot and use multimedia functions. I probably talk less than 10 minutes a day, but use classic pda functions (local apps, no multimedia) quite a bit. I depend on my PDA as a note-talking app (ideas pop up all the time, especially when I'm far away from a computer).

Can I expect a G1 to make it through a weekend trip, even with very conservative use? And by conservative I mean: 2G network just to stay in touch (SMS), no wifi or bluetooth, and very probably also no (or only spotty) use of GPS.

I don't even know if there are any eBook readers out there, but what kind of battery life could you expect doing that (next to no processor load and no network usage, but burning the screen constantly for a few hours)?

Again, I base my expectations on my experience with older PDA's. All in all, it's clear that battery life is trending the wrong way (several years ago a Psion would last at least a week, as would my Nokia 6310 phone; my recent Palm T3 could be stretched to a week, but my current Palm Treo 680 is dead within 3 days no matter what I do).


Q8: Phone number formats
Is there a way to change, or just disable, the automatic formatting of phone numbers?

This question is probably best answered by European users. All screen shots, and also my own testing with the emulator, show the American "(555)-123-4567890" format. I have been unable to find anywhere to change that, not in the Dialer, and not in the Settings (Call Settings, Date & Time, or Locale & Text).

The problem is that in Denmark, phone numbers are usually written as "1234 5678" (we don't use are prefixes) which gets shown as "(123)-456-78" or "123-4 5678" (depending on some circumstances I can't figure out).

It's not that dialing doesn't work; it's just that it's very confusing to read numbers in an unaccustomed format.


I hope you'll share your experiences with me. Thank you.

 

[punkzanyj]

Q7, I rarely talk on my phone either, and it barely makes it through a day (5am-10pm). I have the google services (gmail, calendar, contacts) constantly syncing, my work email syncing once an hour, twitter updating once an hour, and locale managing my settings based on appointments/bedtime/etc. Phone calls eat battery, as do GPS. With GPS and 3G on I can practically watch my battery level sink.

I don't think it would make it through a weekend on one charge, but considering what you propose it might be possible. Sometimes my battery is in the red at 6 evening, and left alone, it makes it to 10pm before dying.

Q8 I really don't know about. I imagine the europeans would have a better chance of answering that one.

 

[twrock]

Wow, the original post from KlaymenDK is almost exactly what I would have written if I hadn't seen these questions first. So I appreciate the thought that went into both the questions and the answers. Thanks to all.

I've been a Palm user for more years than I can remember. I've wanted a PDA with a phone for the past few years to replace my Palm TX and my dumbphone combo. I haven't found that phone either. So at the moment, I'm just "keeping on" until my TX dies and hoping something will come along before that happens that will satisfy me.

I have the highest hopes for an Android device, but at the moment it's still missing some of the PIM functions I've come to depend on, and no one is making one with a large enough screen yet (>3.5"). I suspect with the impending release of a number of devices toward the end of this year, that screen size issue will be solved.

Regarding having a look at what's available in the Marketplace, I've been looking at this site: Cyrket - Android Market Browser
It's usually painfully slow, but at least I can see what's available without owning an Android phone.

Thanks again to all.

 

[KlaymenDK]

Just a quick status update: I've caved in, and have obtained a Google account. I have come to accept that Android is the best alternative currently out there.

I'm still expecting to be disappointed by the PIM features, still incredulous that we had better PDAs ten years ago, but that's how reality is and I am forced to adjust to that. As for the market; yes, there's 'Cyrket', and the phone-based store, but us who come from the Palm community are quite frankly used to a much better quality of previews (at the least, there'd be screen shots), but that too is simply the current state of affairs.

I have decided on a Samsung Galaxy, I'm waiting for it to hit the stores. Its large display and longer-than-HTC battery life are its main selling points for me.

twrock, I'd be happy to know which path you choose and how it goes.

Klay

 

[xarophti]

Hello, KlaymenDK! Goodness, I thought I (and my husband) were all alone crying in the wilderness out here! When we say what it is we want, people look at us like we just stepped out of the dark ages or something. For the past 7 years, we have refused to give up our Handspring Visors with VisorPhone modules. This is because we want good, old fashioned PDAs with real functionality that just happen to be a phone as well. (not to mention handwriting recognition interface - just when did people become enamored with playing thumb piano on little tiny keyboards? My arthritis isn't thrilled.) The Treos that replaced the old Palms are hardly a replacement. Half of the newer ones run on Windows Mobile (yuck). And, in my opinion, Palm has made a big mistake putting out the Pre on Sprint. The only reason we're currently thinking of updating is because messages from more modern phones are beginning to cause fatal error device crashes. I had just about sold myself on switching to Android with the MyTouch G3, but after reading some of the responses to your post, I'm starting to wonder if I'm going to be happy. Especially with the seeming deficiencies in calendar functionality and device search.

 

[punkzanyj]

(not to mention handwriting recognition interface - just when did people become enamored with playing thumb piano on little tiny keyboards? My arthritis isn't thrilled.)

Handwriting recognition doesn't work well at all, at least not that I've seen. On WinMo, for example, they have very specific ways that the software wants you to go about writing characters. For example, if while writing the letter "T" you swipe down first instead of swiping up, it has no idea what you're trying to write. It's almost like you have to learn to write again so that the software can understand, rather than the software learning and being able to see the character well. Plus, the stylus that often comes with those types of PDAs is way too thin (I'm surprised your arthritis was okay with that) and carrying around an appropriate sized stylus just puts one more thing in your pocket. Finally, those screens are simply not big enough to comfortably write on --- perhaps a tablet PC works, but not a smartphone or PDA. To me, playing "piano" is a godsend compared to writing a word, having it misunderstood, writing it again, having half of it misunderstood, writing a third time and one misunderstood swipe erases half the letters and puts in a ampersand. Thumb typing is way, way easier.

 

[KlaymenDK]

I'm actually typing this on my Galaxy, qnd I must say I MISS GRAFFITI! And I'm sad to say its run out of juice in far less than a day, rather disappointing.

 

[TheBrit]

I would have to question whether an Android is right for you. If you want a PDA with a phone in it then the HTC Touch HD might be more of what you are after. However, having used Android I probably wont be going back to Windows Mobile any time soon.

Android works with 'The Cloud' and syncs with it. If that's what you would like to do then great but I suspect it's not from the tone of your original post.

 

[Thefoodman52]

This really feels like digging a grave, but I must say that yes... battery life sucks on most new smart phones. Even the famed i-phone. Its basically going to be one day life, with car chargera almost necessary. If you need a car charger, just hope your car is live/hot 24/7. (Cig. Lighter is always active) otherness you're pretty much done with heavy useage.

 

[katahdin]

Android works with 'The Cloud' and syncs with it. If that's what you would like to do then great but I suspect it's not from the tone of your original post.

Since it looks like google wins out in the droid contact & calendar race ( and TODO in gmail - I haven't used it), they still have yet to do a memo/notes droid app/sync. I expect that they will, and use gDocs as the vehicle, but expect it will be clunky. Personally I'm pretty disappointed that I have to retain my 4-5 year old palm pda (sony) because it works, syncs with the desktop and I can see and enter data (notes) easily on the pda and the PC.


But what makes my old palm os (4.1 !!) great is that in milleseconds I can enter a find (search) for Dr Frankenstein and get the dates of my past and future appointments (cal), phone #-address (contacts), get insurance papers (todo) and memos I created about past appointments and notes of what I want to talk about !! Thats milliseconds !!

Google will need a search that looks at gmail,contacts,todo,and docs very quickly.

Plus I dont want my sensitive data that is in my memos to out in the 'cloud' but backed up and accessed on my pc.

 

[detroid]

It sounds like you need to keep using a PDA and a dumbphone. Or buy a time machine to 1999?

 

[katahdin]

It sounds like you need to keep using a PDA and a dumbphone. Or buy a time machine to 1999?

Now now - be nice...

Did you understand the functionality To which I was referring? There are many others who are disappointed that there appears to be lacking a native PIM app forcing folks to use different work-arounds.

 

[numus]

I would start looking into ARCHOS and some of their internet tablets and the future archos phone tablet Archos phone tablet teased: Android, 4.3-inch touschscreen, 1GHz ARM processor -- Engadget

 

[detroid]

Love the cloud. Live the cloud.

 

[katahdin]

FYI - Note Everything - update to the latest version (2.8.0) via market and can use the new functions - Import from Palm

Read instructions here: SoftXPerience | Import Palm

 

[Eugene]

I too have been somewhat disapointed by the current offering of phone/pdas as I'd prefer a standalone device myself.
Android does support some fields like birthdays but they do not show up in the calendar. I've found few PDA's IM's that do now a days KDE's Korganizer does, Microsoft outlook sort of does, it creates reminders on the calendar but if you edit the birthdate of the contact it doesn't update, sunbord, android, winmonile all do not.
You can for the most part use android standalone, there are a few missing calendar features, for example, the ability to create a re-occuring appointment ever tuesday and thursday, you can in the web based google calendar but not on android, and to make it worse, google calendar online doesn't support the androidn browser. You also can't copy/paste a whole calendar entry. I enter a block each day I work and put a small summary/cya note in there and will copy the previous day's entry to today then edit the description but can't do that easily on android.

So far the best PIM I've ever used it korganizer, the ability for plugins like the brthdays and anneversaries to show on the caleendar automatically the extra fields in the entries for attachments (so you can put a link to the pictures from the vacation entry for example), the ability to note spouse/parent/children, manager, etc beats the rest, Microsoft outlook is a second, but the newer 2007 version the lost/changed some features that actually made it worse not even mentioning the very inconsistant ribbon menu system that makes using it much slower than before.

Android is limited to syncing with google calendar so I'm using a tool called gcaldaemon to get my desktop calendar up to gcalendar then to the phone but that has some issues. It seems like it should be easy for someone to run a small web server on a machine and simulate the google calendar api then point the phone to it to sync with your machine rather then the cloud.

Windows mobile is the other I've used, and its much worse than android, you really can't do anything with winmo without having it chained to Outlook, as a standalone is falls on its face, it can't even browse the internet very well since pocket IE supports Microsoft's modified html rather than standard html, the pocket word/excel, etc have to use activesync to convert to the pocket format so you can't just copy documents on from another system or e-mail.

Android, being open source, has the most potential, if there is a feature you really need/want, you can go request it and of you want it bad enough you can download the developer tools and add it yourself. Try requesting a feature from Microsoft...

Of course by biggest issue with any PDA or PIM software is the emulation of a paper planner, the seperation of different types of data just because thats how it was done on paper isn;t the most efficient way to do things electronically. Some PIM's can show tasks on the calendar or add up total time spent on catagories but its still pretty limited. Some examples are things like pictures, I can recreate places I've been based on the exif data in pictures but have to use a dedicated photo app for that which may happen to contain a calendar view of your picture dates/time, or using another app to view logs from a GPS. But why the need for sperate apps? I want one calendar that will show everything. Microsoft outlook had the ability to show time editing microsoft office documents but it did it on a journal rather than the celendar so to see the time you spent wiring the doc for a project you not have to look in the calendar and the journal. I think a calendar app should have the ability to process some of these other data types and display everything in one place for you to see. Say for example I wanted to take a hike in thw woods and log with my gps and take pictures. I then go put an entry in my calendar for that day but have to use a seperate app to show each part of the data, when it should all be combined in one view.

 

[katahdin]

As of yesterday I stopped using the android browser and now use Dolphin - maybe there is better - but Dolphin is sos much better that I didnt look anymore ! Even when there is a msg that this browser isnt supported - it seems to work for real - When I used the android browser and clicked on classic - it would revert to mobile - I am surprised that the google site i visited - didnt work well under android.

 

[tranzz]

klaymen, you have lots of co-horts out here! I'd say the quantity of users of PalmOS devices before the Treo is the quantity of dissappointed PDA/smartphone users today.

The fact that Android is open, Linux based, and seeing a lot of community, shareware, and BBS action (you old timers know what I'm talking about) is why I have some hope for these devices. Once there were 3 large makers of PalmOS PDAs too, so Android has a little way to go yet to establish true "hardware independence".

Some good news though:

There is MobileWriter available for Android, which gives us Graffiti1, Graffiti2, and another hand-printing-recognition option.

Also NoteEverything seems promising, even in it's "free" version. It needs no network connection even to do backup functions! As mentioned earlier it also imports Memos from Palm (by way of PalmDesktop though).

 

[KlaymenDK]

It's funny how this thread has really picked up again this month.

FYI, I've suggested the admins should consider making a forum for ex-Palm users, perhaps as a subforum of a "Migration" forum. They seemed to welcome the idea; we'll see what comes of it. We'd have a good place then to put all our Palm-centric and -related threads.

In the meantime, I've created a "Palm transplants" social group (see my signature) that you're welcome to join ... although I have (as yet) little understanding of the benefit of these groups. The name was chosen because there was already a group named "iPhone transplants", and I figured I'd continue in that vein.

 

[lobug]

Hmm, I have a few follow-up questions, which I haven't been able to find a good answer to (using Google and so on):


Q7: Battery life
I hear that the expected battery life of a (new) G1 is "up to a full day", but it also seems to me that that is for users who talk a lot and use multimedia functions. I probably talk less than 10 minutes a day, but use classic pda functions (local apps, no multimedia) quite a bit. I depend on my PDA as a note-talking app (ideas pop up all the time, especially when I'm far away from a computer).

Can I expect a G1 to make it through a weekend trip, even with very conservative use? And by conservative I mean: 2G network just to stay in touch (SMS), no wifi or bluetooth, and very probably also no (or only spotty) use of GPS.

I don't even know if there are any eBook readers out there, but what kind of battery life could you expect doing that (next to no processor load and no network usage, but burning the screen constantly for a few hours)?

Again, I base my expectations on my experience with older PDA's. All in all, it's clear that battery life is trending the wrong way (several years ago a Psion would last at least a week, as would my Nokia 6310 phone; my recent Palm T3 could be stretched to a week, but my current Palm Treo 680 is dead within 3 days no matter what I do).


Q8: Phone number formats
Is there a way to change, or just disable, the automatic formatting of phone numbers?

This question is probably best answered by European users. All screen shots, and also my own testing with the emulator, show the American "(555)-123-4567890" format. I have been unable to find anywhere to change that, not in the Dialer, and not in the Settings (Call Settings, Date & Time, or Locale & Text).

The problem is that in Denmark, phone numbers are usually written as "1234 5678" (we don't use are prefixes) which gets shown as "(123)-456-78" or "123-4 5678" (depending on some circumstances I can't figure out).

It's not that dialing doesn't work; it's just that it's very confusing to read numbers in an unaccustomed format.


I hope you'll share your experiences with me. Thank you.

1. Get an extended battery... The largest capacity of stock size seems to be 1600/1700mAh... If you don't mind moving to a larger battery size, there is 2500-3000mAh ones...

If you use the stock battery (1150mAh), even if you turn off the phone at night, I doubt if it can last through a weekend... 2-day use for under the sun, maybe...

2. Change the Locale, I heard that most of North American's locales have some sort of dash/hyphen formatting built in.