Root Reality check for root pros.

[GolfnDroid]

I've been a member here since I got my Droid and this place is great. Quickly I've seen a great divide since the Droid's been rooted and that divide has the tech geeks on one side and the noobs on the other. When the Droid came out everyone wanted this phone to help the Android software to grow as much as possible and were way more helpful. I am in the middle of the noob/geek divide because i've scoured all the forums/youtube videos imaginable before I rooted. But the tech geeks need to realize is that the noobs need to be able to enjoy their phones just like you so the buzz about Android continues to grow. Instead of bashing people for rooting with SMu (which i do understand why) help them by showing how to go from Sholes to pete's THE EASY WAY because noobs don't have time to scour these forums and don't get the terminology with rooting the hard way. If they screw up later then they will have no choice but to learn how to fix it themselves and in my experience, people only change/learn when they HAVE to not when they WANT to. Other than that, this is the best Android forum around.

 

[El Blacksheep]

This basically sounds like "do it for me."

There's plenty of write-ups already out there, and it's not going to kill anyone to search for 5 minutes and read for 10.

 

[GolfnDroid]

No you missed my point. Before root we were all in the same boat now that some of us are rooted, we are not being as helpful. Some people do not know how to use the search function of this forum. There is NO requirement to search before posting so give the noobs a break and stop beating them up over their posts. They just want the phone they should've got in the first place.

 

[El Blacksheep]

Nobody is beating anybody up, I'm just saying I did a lot of research when I decided to root, others should do the same. You're making drastic changes to your system, you SHOULD know what you're doing.

 

[GolfnDroid]

Yawn... SMU does an automatic Nandroid backup so what's the worst you can do. As long as you can boot up into Recovery, you are fine. Drastic changes? It's just like being able to go into your PC's registry and delete shit. Most people don't because they don't know what they are doing so just because someone has root but doesn't know all the terminology doesn't mean they will automatically screw it up. I did all the hours of research too but doesn't mean only those who study should get it. We own these phones we should all have root. Just sayin...

 

[alostpacket]

Why should anyone help you if you are disrespectful when asking questions? El Blacksheep is right, a lot of people here are very helpful but we're not here to be personal tech support for a rude newbie's every whim.

You yourself walked into a thread and tried to jack it to get your answers when people were talking about something else. When people were even talking about how rude some people are on alldroid when asking for help.

I don't blame newbies for not knowing, I blame people for walking around with entitlement complexes and demanding we help them with a smile and a pat on the back.

Also, if you are going to take on voiding your warranty and rooting, it perhaps is a good idea that you know how to use a forum search. I would never demand someone just respectfully asking for help with their phone use the search, but they should have a bit of resiliancy and problem solving skill if they are to successfully root.

IMO, the SMUpdater on the market is a disservice to the community. Not the service it provides, but the fact that it is on the market where anyone can find it. Rooting is dangerous and should not be taken lightly. The SMUpdater allows those without the knowledge to take it lightly, and we've seen more than a few threads around here about people bricking or nearly bricking their phones with it. I'm not against it entirely, but it would be better if it were not on the market.

My take on all this is that I appreciate newbies, and love answering their questions, but if they are rude and disrespectful I feel no need to keep that observation from them. If they are in over their heads I won't keep that from them either.

Anyways, maybe it's you who should think about the attitude you take to this forum rather than judging all of us? Eh?

 

[GolfnDroid]

Well we can certainly see what side of the divide alostpacket is on ( "judging all of us") ???? all of us is this community all android owners not skilled android users. You talk about "jacking" threads like everyone who is not like you (people not accustomed to forums) knows what that means. A lot of these "newbs" are first time smartphone owners and first time forum posters. I wasn't judging, i was offering suggestions on how to better help our new friends. This is just another case of the HAVES vs. THE HAVE NOTS. The HAVES always want to protect what they got and not share with the HAVE NOTS. I say let this community be different. And don't give me the voided warranty crap you flash back to to stock 2.01 using SMu and what verizon goof will ever know what you did? C'mon man!

 

[YankeeDudeL]

It's really hard to search for something when you don't know what it is you're looking for. If someone who's new puts "root" in the search form, the results and what each may entail would be overwhelming. Guide them to the answers they're looking for. Yes, they need to learn how to not just search, but research. Help them how to. I think this is what GolfnDroid is trying to get at.

I understand techies tend to be very territorial w/ their devices, but some border on elitism when it comes to their knowledge of said devices. That, however, does not help this site maintain the optimum information portal to Android, which I can assure you is more important to the moderators than any one of a user's 800 posts.

Thanks to MobileRoar.com/Phandroid.com their respective forums, I've become a very well-informed consumer. It's through this very forum that I learned what rooting is, why I might want to do it, what risks are involved, and ultimately where and how to perform the task. And the more Android users, the more opportunities are going to come our way.

And as always, (An)Droid does.

 

[alostpacket]

Well we can certainly see what side of the divide alostpacket is on ( "judging all of us") ???? all of us is this community all android owners not skilled android users. You talk about "jacking" threads like everyone who is not like you (people not accustomed to forums) knows what that means. A lot of these "newbs" are first time smartphone owners and first time forum posters. I wasn't judging, i was offering suggestions on how to better help our new friends. This is just another case of the HAVES vs. THE HAVE NOTS. The HAVES always want to protect what they got and not share with the HAVE NOTS. I say let this community be different. And don't give me the voided warranty crap you flash back to to stock 2.01 using SMu and what verizon goof will ever know what you did? C'mon man!

You dont need to know the term jacking to know your are asking an off topic question. Would you run up to a group of people and interrupt them in person like that?

Clearly you are trying to excuse your own (mis) behavior though, so I dont see any point in continuing this conversation with you. Your whole imaginary "divide" is really just a rationalization of your own missteps.

The sad part is you still have yet to realize it.

 

[alostpacket]

It's really hard to search for something when you don't know what it is you're looking for. If someone who's new puts "root" in the search form, the results and what each may entail would be overwhelming. Guide them to the answers they're looking for. Yes, they need to learn how to not just search, but research. Help them how to. I think this is what GolfnDroid is trying to get at.

I understand techies tend to be very territorial w/ their devices, but some border on elitism when it comes to their knowledge of said devices. That, however, does not help this site maintain the optimum information portal to Android, which I can assure you is more important to the moderators than any one of a user's 800 posts.

Thanks to MobileRoar.com/Phandroid.com their respective forums, I've become a very well-informed consumer. It's through this very forum that I learned what rooting is, why I might want to do it, what risks are involved, and ultimately where and how to perform the task. And the more Android users, the more opportunities are going to come our way.

And as always, (An)Droid does.

I don't know where you get territorialism out of all this. Every single vet on this board helps people. Every one. Gonzoguy, Fadelight Messenger13, Gunner, CRP, Colnago, Fabulous, and many, many more I'm forgetting.

But they get very little thanks back for their help. Instead we are to endure the complaints about our tone when making occasional jokes or poking fun at rude newbies. Of course, we're not here to be customer service but what does that matter? We're supposed to cater to the vision of AF, right?

Yet no one ever seems to make the distinction between someone just asking a question like:

"First time rooter with some questions"

versus:

"OMG i need root naow halp!!!!!!"


Personally, I like to poke a little friendly fun at the second of the two, then help them anyways. That way they maybe at least get a sense of their own rudeness but they still get their answer.

Anyways, all I'm saying is that vet bashing seems just as common around here as newb bashing. So thanks for that.

,

 

[milrtime83]

It's really hard to search for something when you don't know what it is you're looking for. If someone who's new puts "root" in the search form, the results and what each may entail would be overwhelming. Guide them to the answers they're looking for. Yes, they need to learn how to not just search, but research. Help them how to. I think this is what GolfnDroid is trying to get at.

At some point newer users have to realize that rooting is way over their head and they probably shouldn't do it until they understand a lot more. If someone doesn't know what to search for regarding rooting do you really think they are ready for the responsibility that comes with rooting their phone?

 

[CRPercodani]

I'm not gonna sit here and write 2 or 3 paragraphs about this although I could. Instead let me just say this, I have helped ANYONE who has asked me for it, whether it is a complete newcomer or a superuser. Even if they are rude I still help them. Now PERSONALLY I don't care if someone wants to use SMUpdater, but when they screw something up really bad and have no clue what they did, how am I suppose to help them fix it? This is why people should learn the basics, so they can give us a idea of what happened so we can help fix it.

 

[Slug]

Okay, time-out called.....

It's obvious from the Zero Tolerance Policy notice posted recently by Shivers that many newcomers are being turned off by the attitude of some forum members. It's therefore more important than ever that we (the established membership) do our best to make them feel welcome. Word travels fast online, and nobody wants AF to gain a reputation as an elitist place.

That's not to say that newcomers should expect to have everything served up on a plate. They should welcome directions, but not complain if they're not taken by the hand right to the destination.

Sermon over. Let's get back to doing what AF does best.... helping each other get the most from their Android handsets.

 

[YankeeDudeL]

Slug summed that up; it's an issue that is there, but the site is doing a great job to remedy it. And I can't say that I've personally had an issue w/ anyone on this site, but I consider myself informed. And as I stated, I owe that almost exclusively this site and it's predecessor/sister site, and the people on it. I don't think the OP intended harm in this thread, and nor do I. I love you guys. Sorta. More of a strong like. Like a pretty good neighbor. Maybe not a great one. One that let's you borrow weed whacker, but not the riding lawn mower. Yeah, that's it...

 

[CRPercodani]

Slug summed that up; it's an issue that is there, but the site is doing a great job to remedy it. And I can't say that I've personally had an issue w/ anyone on this site, but I consider myself informed. And as I stated, I owe that almost exclusively this site and it's predecessor/sister site, and the people on it. I don't think the OP intended harm in this thread, and nor do I. I love you guys. Sorta. More of a strong like. Like a pretty good neighbor. Maybe not a great one. One that let's you borrow weed whacker, but not the riding lawn mower. Yeah, that's it...

Ok cool cuz once all this snow melts here in massachusetts I am gonna need to whack some serious weeds. I promise to send it back with a full tank.......or at least 3/4.

 

[dpeco33]

I'm not gonna sit here and write 2 or 3 paragraphs about this although I could. Instead let me just say this, I have helped ANYONE who has asked me for it, whether it is a complete newcomer or a superuser. Even if they are rude I still help them. Now PERSONALLY I don't care if someone wants to use SMUpdater, but when they screw something up really bad and have no clue what they did, how am I suppose to help them fix it? This is why people should learn the basics, so they can give us a idea of what happened so we can help fix it.

Hence why I went back to original phone specs. I agree with a lot of what everyone is saying here, but like CP says..it is hard to help someone to repair the issue, if they have no idea how the issue occurred, or worse yet, what the issue was.
I began thinking that if I had an issue, how would I even attempt to know what to ask? That I believe is the point of the techies asking people to do the research, even if it is just the basic terms,
I, however, am not a tech believe me LOL.

 

[bdal1]

Nobody is beating anybody up, I'm just saying I did a lot of research when I decided to root, others should do the same. You're making drastic changes to your system, you SHOULD know what you're doing.

Sorry dude
I disagree. If the easy way is out there, people are welcome to choose to take the easy way. Its not your call to tell them to search, and the Mods agree. They'll start suspending, and I agree with them. Telling a noob to search IS bashing.

 

[aguillon5]

First of all, THANK YOU to all the guides and moderators of this forum. I think a lot of the guides are unfairly getting the blame for other members rude comments. Secondly I do agree with the OP it is uncomfortable posting questions or making comments in threads because of the fear of being ridiculed or being made an example of. I do search and unfortunately I do not always find what I was looking for. Sometimes the post you are looking for is in entirely unrelated thread. I find myself sending PMs instead of posting so I do not get embareassed (pun). To sum it up yes I am a noob, no I do not know proper forum etiquette. What can I ask? What can I post?

This is the part where a rude member answers: "Do a search! That is my personal most unfavorite reply.

 

[johnlgalt]

It's one thing to tell a newbie to go find an answer on their own.

It is another thing to suggest that they do a lot of reading before undertaking the step to root their phone and then replace the ROM.

He isn't saying anything different than CRPercodani did in another thread....

 

[Wisdom]

I'm going to be completely schizophrenic here and take both sides. There is a fine line between educating a "noob" about searching and just telling them that they need to search (which is apparently rude). But there has to be a way to tell them without being suspended or berated by the mods yourself. How can you know that there is a more effective way to use forums if no one can tell you?

As tiring as it is too read the same question over and over again in thread after thread, it is just as tiring to hear a self appointed forum etiquette expert lecture every other OP or commenter about whether or not they asked their question at the appropriate time or place. At a forum I belonged to when I had my Omnia, I cringed every time that someone asked "how do I to a hard reset?" (just an example), especially considering that the answer was in the first post of the first sticky thread. But I cringed just as much when "that guy", (you know the one, he may be a different person on different forums, but he's still "that guy") gave them yet another lecture for screwing up and starting a new thread or asking their question in an unrelated thread. "That guy" is a pain in the you-know-what, but there has to be a way to tell new people to search once in a while without bringing down the wrath of mod.

I enjoy reading these forums, and have earned quite an education by reading them. The first time I read a post here, I was a noob too, but I took the time to read and learn, and now I try to give back and help out where I can. I don't, however, have any illusions about having a right to the information here or the knowledge that the "root pros" possess and share.

The REAL reality check is that the "root pros" don't need us. The REAL reality check is that the "root pros" also don't need the hassle of being attacked because they didn't give up their knowledge fast enough, or politely enough.

There has to be some middle ground because without the "pros" answering questions and passing on their knowledge, then the noobs wouldn't have any reason to even visit, and if every time someone doesn't like how a question gets answered they cry foul and one of those "pros" gets suspended, the number of pros that are willing to help is going to dwindle.

I agree 100% that name calling and personal attacks have no place here, but you have to have some thickness to your skin in every social situation, or you should just stay home.

 

[bbrosen]

being new to this forum and to android, I have learned there are a lot of hard core nerds. I have the utmost respect for them, and dealing with them in real life for my job, I have learned that for as smart as they are, they can be "quirky"

Not to say they won't help, but you sometimes have to be thick skinned. They tend to be impatient, and not everyone, tho knowledgeable, can be a good teacher. This forum is extremely popular and with all the new Android people coming on board, I am sure there are a lot of demands for their time. Most people do not like to read, they just want someone to tell them, it's a lazy human trait. But reading helps in the learning process tremendously.

i know most of you know this already. I have noticed the mods here to be a little overly sensitive but i think they are trying to keep this from pushing the noobs away , the ones who really want to learn, like me. It will only help the Android platform, it's good stewardship.

I am once again going to try to root my hero this weekend..hopefully it will take this time. But I am trying to be more patient thanks to this site and a few others. HTC has been trying to help me with issues for the phone too, they seem to be getting the hint about customer service. I have been talking to the corp office, and seem to be getting some attention for my issues. Some of which have been forwarded to Taiwan. They seem to be trying now. Which is good enough for now, for me anyway.

 

[El Blacksheep]

Ugh, so many people are completely missing the point.

Even if 99% of the so-called "root pros" are elitist stuck up jerks, you don't have to ask them a single question in order to educate yourself to the point where you can safely root your phone knowledgeably. Basically any and every site that deals with the technical aspects of android phones has a written guide somewhere that will walk you through every step.

It's not like anyone's asking you to go to a college library and write a thesis; we're asking you to spend a couple minutes on a search engine. In the 3 minutes it took you to write up a "help me plz" thread and the 22 minutes you waited for a helpful response, you could've spent 5 of those minutes googling a Droid root guide and 20 minutes reading it & rooting your Droid.

Sorry dude
I disagree. If the easy way is out there, people are welcome to choose to take the easy way. Its not your call to tell them to search, and the Mods agree. They'll start suspending, and I agree with them. Telling a noob to search IS bashing.

You are free to disagree, but saying "I disagree" doesn't automatically make your opinion fact. If you come to me asking me for more information than I don't have time to give to you, and in response I direct you to a source where you can obtain all the information you're looking for, that's not called bashing, that's called being helpful. What YOU'RE doing is called being inconsiderate, ungrateful and quite honestly disrespectful. And while some may be nice enough to do it anyways, nobody WANTS to help someone disrespecting them.

 

[Shadowtech]

The biggest problem with the attitudes is that everyone online seems to think that everyone else should be as smart as they think themselves to be. Truth of the matter is there are still plenty of people on this planet who still have no idea how to use a forum, how to search, how to properly google. And let's face it.. a lot of the time the search function on most forum scripts completely sucks. You'll be lucky to even get a relevant response to a term you search for no matter how well laid out you thought it was.

Does that mean that people should bend over backwards to help someone out who asked a question the millionth+1 time? No. Should they step in and point out how clueless the person is or tell them to "Use the search.". No. If that is all you have to contribute, or feel it is such a burden, remember you are under no obligation to respond to that post. I am sure there are other people who would willingly respond more politely. But alas, people for some reason seem to believe that postcount=knowledge, so will still reply with the rude remarks. It's not just an issue here, it's everywhere.

 

[Slug]

What it all boils down to is this....

From the Site Rules & Guidelines:

Also while the search feature on forums is great, and hopefully will be utilized - if someone comes here and asks a question, either answer it or don't. If you're going to suggest the search feature, be polite about it. Nothing irks me more than when I go to a forum, (and use the search!), then ask a question because I want some one on one with my problem, and get a simple "Use the search." reply. Suggesting it is encouraged, but don't withhold the answer because they don't.

From the Zero-Tolerance Policy:

We welcome EVERYONE to this forum. We don't care if their grammar isn't perfect. And, albeit a little annoying when someone doesn't, we don't "require" people to search first before they post a question. Replying to a thread by saying "use the search" is just as bad or worse than not searching first. Either reply to a thread with a helpful solution or don't reply at all.

Whether you agree with the above or not is moot; it's what is expected of all forum members irrespective of experience, post count or any other factor.

 

[Tymanthius]

I wanted to address something that I don't think anyone did.

My g/f is a teacher, and she has a penchant for dating geeks. Luckily I'm the last one, as she wants to marry me (she's crazy, I know).

But the point is, she's said, over and over again, she HATES to have a geek try to teach her something. We are impatient, perfectionistic, and often rude. And I went "WTF?!" Because I'm NOT. But then she started pointing out things to me one day, that I DO do.

Guess what, it was kinda rude.

So my point here is that a lot ppl aren't really trying to be rude to the n00bs, it's just the way techs are. Add to that the fact that text communications lack tone & body language to soften harsh words, and it can seem downright vicious.

So remember, if you're giving advice, be a little extra careful to couch things in polite or neutral terms. If you are receiving the advice remember that it's free, and that it's usually meant in a friendly manner.