Galaxy Nexus camera discussion

[irishjoeyo]

I simply can't get past the sad fact that this phone only has a 5mp camera. I've read a lot of nonsense commentary about that, saying things like "megapixels don't mean anything anymore". The simple fact of the matter is, while the number of megapixels certainly is not the only significant spec in a camera, it is certainly one of the most important specs if not the most important spec. The more pixels, the higher the resolution and hence the higher the quality the image is, plain and simple.

 

[nj02vette]

I simply can't get past the sad fact that this phone only has a 5mp camera. I've read a lot of nonsense commentary about that, saying things like "megapixels don't mean anything anymore". The simple fact of the matter is, while the number of megapixels certainly is not the only significant spec in a camera, it is certainly one of the most important specs if not the most important spec. The more pixels, the higher the resolution and hence the higher the quality the image is, plain and simple.

Wow, that is just so wrong.

Let me put it to you this way. Would you rather have a $200 14MP point and shoot, or a $1000 10MP DigitalSLR? There's a reason that one camera costs over 5X as much even though it's less MP.

The single most important aspect of a camera is the lens glass, followed by the sensor size (not megapixel size, but physical size). Google publically stated they selected 5MP for two reasons:
1. Zero shutter lag requires faster processing, so they went with a smaller size to ensure that there wouldn't be any lag.
2. Low light performance is far superior. Since the physical size of the 8MP and 5MP sensor are the same, the larger sensors on the 5MP CCD allow more light to be captured quicker.

I'm not going to go into obsessive detail, but for most pictures, the 5MP sensor should be fine. BTW, the same criticism was levied against the iPhone4 when it came out, and that was widely regarded to have one of the best cell phone cameras around.

 

[Sandroidfan]

I simply can't get past the sad fact that this phone only has a 5mp camera. I've read a lot of nonsense commentary about that, saying things like "megapixels don't mean anything anymore". The simple fact of the matter is, while the number of megapixels certainly is not the only significant spec in a camera, it is certainly one of the most important specs if not the most important spec. The more pixels, the higher the resolution and hence the higher the quality the image is, plain and simple.

Folks like you is the reason why camera manufacturers are pushing higher mega pixels every year way beyond its optimum range for sensor size.

I don't want to write pages to explain that, but say this instead. I have 10MP Panasonic ZS3 and newer 16MP Sony HX7V. They both have 1/2.3" size sensor and similar lens aperture. And guess which one makes better details, quality images? ZS3 runs circle around HX7V.

 

[irishjoeyo]

Wow, that is just so wrong.

Let me put it to you this way. Would you rather have a $200 14MP point and shoot, or a $1000 10MP DigitalSLR? There's a reason that one camera costs over 5X as much even though it's less MP.

The single most important aspect of a camera is the lens glass, followed by the sensor size (not megapixel size, but physical size). Google publically stated they selected 5MP for two reasons:
1. Zero shutter lag requires faster processing, so they went with a smaller size to ensure that there wouldn't be any lag.
2. Low light performance is far superior. Since the physical size of the 8MP and 5MP sensor are the same, the larger sensors on the 5MP CCD allow more light to be captured quicker.

I'm not going to go into obsessive detail, but for most pictures, the 5MP sensor should be fine. BTW, the same criticism was levied against the iPhone4 when it came out, and that was widely regarded to have one of the best cell phone cameras around.

Actually, you're wrong. You're comparing a non-SLR camera to an SLR camera, which is apples to oranges. We're talking phone cameras, here, so make sure you're on the same page before you make egregious mistakes in your criticisms.

Low-light and shutter lag do not affect image resolution and image resolution is the single most important aspect of image quality. While both of those features do matter, they do not affect image resolution, and that is my point.

If low-light capabilities and shutter lag are more important to you than resolution, then that is your choice. I didn't say and I'm not saying that megapixels should be YOUR most important feature.

 

[irishjoeyo]

Folks like you is the reason why camera manufacturers are pushing higher mega pixels every year way beyond its optimum range for sensor size.

I don't want to write pages to explain that, but say this instead. I have 10MP Panasonic ZS3 and newer 16MP Sony HX7V. They both have 1/2.3" size sensor and similar lens aperture. And guess which one makes better details, quality images? ZS3 runs circle around HX7V.

You just made the same mistake the other person did. We're talking phone cameras, here, so this is another unfair comparison.

 

[Sandroidfan]

You just made the same mistake the other person did. We're talking phone cameras, here, so this is another unfair comparison.

Well, I compared the same category P&S cams to show my point. How's that unfair? The same principle applies to phone cameras. You simply don't understand the negative effect of higher pixel density in small sensor and are hung up on "higher mega pixel = better image quality" hype.

 

[irishjoeyo]

Well, I compared the same category P&S cams to show my point. How's that unfair? The same principle applies to phone cameras. You simply don't understand the negative effect of higher pixel density in small sensor and are hung up on "higher mega pixel = better image quality" hype.

Hype? LOL. It's a fact, not an opinion. And contrary to your assumption, I do understand the the MP vs. sensor size issue. But simply because 5MP maxes out the sensor on the GNex's camera doesn't mean that 8MP on an appropriate-sized sensor wouldn't take better pictures in a well-lit area - it is likely that it would. Do you think that, in a well-lit environment, the GNex's camera would still take a better picture than the 8MP camera on my HTC Incredible?

 

[Sandroidfan]

Hype? LOL. It's a fact, not an opinion. And contrary to your assumption, I do understand the the MP vs. sensor size issue. But simply because 5MP maxes out the sensor on the GNex's camera doesn't mean that 8MP on an appropriate-sized sensor wouldn't take better pictures in a well-lit area - it is likely that it would. Do you think that, in a well-lit environment, the GNex's camera would still take a better picture than the 8MP camera on my HTC Incredible?

Well, if you understand that, what makes you think 8MP sensor will take better low light pictures than 5MP sensor? Assuming lens spec is similar (this is big assumption), 5MP sensor will take better picture because signal to noise ratio is better due to large pixel receiving more light.

I can't answer Dinc vs Gnex question because there are other factors involved like lens, firmware. But if Gnex had 8MP sensor with everything else being the same, 8MP will definitely do worse in low light.

 

[irishjoeyo]

Well, if you understand that, what makes you think 8MP sensor will take better low light pictures than 5MP sensor? Assuming lens spec is similar (this is big assumption), 5MP sensor will take better picture because signal to noise ratio is better due to large pixel receiving more light.

I can't answer Dinc vs Gnex question because there are other factors involved like lens, firmware. But if Gnex had 8MP sensor with everything else being the same, 8MP will definitely do worse in low light.

My question was regarding taking a picture in a well-lit environment. I don't dispute the fact that the GNex's camera would likely take a better picture in low-light. However, that is another matter. How well-illuminated the image appears to be is different than the resolution of the picture. My point is that resolution, at least for me and also for most people I've talked to, is the most important feature with respect to image quality.

If all you did was exchange the sensor in the GNex's camera for a different sensor that was appropriately sized for 8MP, and you left everything else about the camera the same, then it would take better pictures - at all light levels - than it currently does. Is that not true?

 

[irishjoeyo]

Anyway, I can't spend any more time on here at the moment. At the end of the day, the importance of all phones and all features on all phones is subjective. If you prefer the GNex, go for it. I don't, and the camera is one reason (the sheer size of it is another). But hey, that's me. I'm not telling anyone what their preferences are or should be. The GNex is a fantastic device; it's just not the one or close enough to the one I'm waiting for.

 

[Sandroidfan]

My question was regarding taking a picture in a well-lit environment. I don't dispute the fact that the GNex's camera would likely take a better picture in low-light. However, that is another matter. How well-illuminated the image appears to be is different than the resolution of the picture. My point is that resolution, at least for me and also for most people I've talked to, is the most important feature with respect to image quality.

If all you did was exchange the sensor in the GNex's camera for a different sensor that was appropriately sized for 8MP, and you left everything else about the camera the same, then it would take better pictures - at all light levels - than it currently does. Is that not true?

As I don't want to take this thread too much into camera discussion, I answered your question in PM. Bottom line is 5MP is non-issue at all light levels.

 

[dguy]

snip

Not to call you out but you really don't have even an elementary understanding of digital camera technology. You should really do some research instead of clinging to these half baked tidbits of understanding you have and using it to argue.

 

[nj02vette]

Actually, you're wrong. You're comparing a non-SLR camera to an SLR camera, which is apples to oranges. We're talking phone cameras, here, so make sure you're on the same page before you make egregious mistakes in your criticisms.

Low-light and shutter lag do not affect image resolution and image resolution is the single most important aspect of image quality. While both of those features do matter, they do not affect image resolution, and that is my point.

If low-light capabilities and shutter lag are more important to you than resolution, then that is your choice. I didn't say and I'm not saying that megapixels should be YOUR most important feature.

Even in the point and shoot world, there are good cameras with XMP resolution, and there are bad cameras with the same resolution. Just because you didn't like the comparison didn't mean it wasn't still valid.

Resolution isn't everything when the data collected by all those extra pixels might be garbage. And I see you entirely ignored the comment about the iPhone4's 5MP camera.

 

[Slug]

If all you did was exchange the sensor in the GNex's camera for a different sensor that was appropriately sized for 8MP, and you left everything else about the camera the same, then it would take better pictures - at all light levels - than it currently does. Is that not true?

Nope, not remotely. Unless by "better" you mean "viewable larger". All the image resolution dictates is the size of that image at a given dpi. Of far more importance is how well a sensor resolves the detail it receives through the lens, and that's not dependent on number of photo sites (the 'pixels' on a digital sensor) but more on the quality of the sensor. In fact, too many sites packed closely together can actually be detrimental to IQ as you start to run into diffraction and other issues such as chromatic aberration (fringing).

 

[Ken7]

I've posted this in several places, but has anyone figured out how to shoot a pix in 16:9?

Forget the megapixels, it's almost impossible for me to believe that Samsung didn't provide a 16:9 option for shooting. Virtually every other cam phone I've used has had it.

Anyone?

 

[Needsdecaf]

Anyway, I can't spend any more time on here at the moment. At the end of the day, the importance of all phones and all features on all phones is subjective. If you prefer the GNex, go for it. I don't, and the camera is one reason (the sheer size of it is another). But hey, that's me. I'm not telling anyone what their preferences are or should be. The GNex is a fantastic device; it's just not the one or close enough to the one I'm waiting for.

Ah, I see. So you are disappointed that the phone wasn't what you wanted so you start a thread to bash it to feel better. It all becomes clear now.

What was the point of this thread again?

 

[s.m.knipe]

I've posted this in several places, but has anyone figured out how to shoot a pix in 16:9?

Forget the megapixels, it's almost impossible for me to believe that Samsung didn't provide a 16:9 option for shooting. Virtually every other cam phone I've used has had it.

Anyone?

It's not present in the stock camera (that is something that Blur and Touchwiz and Sense have been adding I think), but there should be a 3rd party app that will do it (I just haven't found it yet). Some of the OEM UI's would take the normal image and crop it without showing you the original, maybe a cropping app that would let you fix the aspect ratio?

 

[syntrix]

All of my other phone 8MP cameras, I have always turned down to 5MP.

This camera is simply amazing!

 

[jikhead]

Here's my two cents worth....you all are right. So let's look at it simply like this...

If you simply want to capture moments on the fly, take photos to put on your PC as wallpapers, to share with family and friends, maybe print some 4x6's....then both a 5MP and 8MP camera on a phone should suffice for all users.

If you want more quality pics for the same reason above, and maybe larger print sizes...then do yourself justice and use a point-and-shoot camera.

If you want professional quality prints for various print sizes and posters, etc....then buy a DSLR or hire a professional photographer.

Don't expect your phone to be able to match the quality of either a DSLR or even a point-and-shoot camera.

 

[J3ffro]

Regardless of the form factor (DSLR, P&S, Cell phone camera) the ONLY thing a higher megapixel count allows you to do is have a larger file, and in turn allow you to make a larger print or make a larger crop. Megapixel has absolutely NOTHING to do with image quality whatsoever.

5 years ago I was shooting events and products professionally with a 6.3MP DSLR (Digital Rebel) and if it was clear enough photo I could print a 20x30 with no image degradation. A little larger and there would be slight issues with the print if you get up close and shine a flashlight at the proper angle. I then upgraded to a 8.2 (30D) and it virtually made no difference. Same glass, same sensor size - same images. A later I upgraded to a 12.8 MP (5D) which let me print more 20x30s and even a little larger.

At the same time I spent more than I should have on a few L series lenses (which ultimately have paid for themselves) and they made the biggest difference in final image quality.

Manufacturers like to tout pixel count like it matters because it is easily quantifiable. They can say their camera is better than the other because the number is higher, but ultimately it's bunk. Seems like almost every market does it. Horsepower/fuel economy/energy savings/download speeds - we like numbers. Unfortunately the number for cameras doesn't matter.

I'm not saying the GNex camera is better for being lower, simply that it isn't worse for being lower. Image quality is a reflection of many independent factors, but ultimately megapixel count is not one of them.

 

[jikhead]

It's not present in the stock camera (that is something that Blur and Touchwiz and Sense have been adding I think), but there should be a 3rd party app that will do it (I just haven't found it yet). Some of the OEM UI's would take the normal image and crop it without showing you the original, maybe a cropping app that would let you fix the aspect ratio?

There's a 3rd party camera app available in the market today for .10 cents! Go grab it!

 

[speede541]

Just to throw a little more water on this smoldering campfire, here are a bunch of links from respectable sources making the case against the megapixel myth.

Summarized in a sentence: These high megapixel sensors are less sensitive than less accurate than their lower-density counterparts, and are attempting to resolve resolutions that the small, cheap lenses are not capable of focusing.

Read on, if you're interested:
Why we've reached the end of the camera megapixel race
More megapixels, better photos: Fact or fiction? - CNET News
The Truth About Digital Cameras - NYTimes.com
Digital Camera Resource Page: Frequently Asked Questions
More Megapixels Does Not Mean More Quality
Giz Explains: Why More Megapixels Isn't Always More Better

For the best "man on the street" perspective, read the NYTimes link (#3). But they're all relevant to this subject matter.

 

[EmotionalNinja]

I simply can't get past the sad fact that this phone only has a 5mp camera. I've read a lot of nonsense commentary about that, saying things like "megapixels don't mean anything anymore". The simple fact of the matter is, while the number of megapixels certainly is not the only significant spec in a camera, it is certainly one of the most important specs if not the most important spec. The more pixels, the higher the resolution and hence the higher the quality the image is, plain and simple.

Sorry but you are wrong, 5MP is film quality, anything over is essentially overkill and only useful for blowing up the pictures. The lens/sensor is more important after you hit the 5MP mark, my friends iPhone 4 takes better pictures than the SGSII. From what I can tell so far the Galaxy Nexus image quality rivals the iPhone, you lost some megapixels for the ability to take pictures as fast as you can tap the screen and you can take pictures while recording videos. I love the camera.

 

[speede541]

Let's not forget that the fast shot-to-shot speeds may be falsely giving some owners the impression they don't need to hold the camera still to focus. Can't tell you how many videos I've watched now where they're swing the camera wildly while pressing the shutter release button, resulting in blurry photos.

 

[brickberry]

Hi. Agree with MP as only one part of the equation. So let's say it doesn't matter.

Went to VZW today, picked up both the Rezound and the Nexus for some "as is" photos without any setting modifications. Was after dark in a nice softly lit store.

First picture is Rezound (8MP), second is GNex (5MP). If MP doesn't matter, something else certainly does.

http://mattsverizonpictures.shutterfly.com/pictures#n_5

Wasn't daylight, could argue would work differently at other times, but I am moving into photography with a new DSLR, so I was careful with the phones as I used them. Interested to see anyone else's comparison photos. I'd have taken the picture from the same spot, but they're all attached to the dang wall!

I suppose you could say the Rez is the better low light camera, no flash BTW, and maybe different outside?