Help Important new technologies in S4 graphics, benchmarks

[EarlyMon]

OK, so by now we all know that S4 Krait processors compare to the ARM Cortex A-15 architecture and its dual core stands up to the current Tegra T3 quad core.

And that it's built using a 28 nm manufacturing process for higher power savings.

But questions remain about the GPU - what to expect? do benchmarks tell the story? - and that big screen - power hog or power princess?

I found these answers so interesting that I thought we might enjoy a thread just for new technologies -

http://www.qualcomm.com/media/blog/2012/02/23/qualcomm-introduces-brite-and-gridview-snapdragon

Translation - better picture, less power.

 

[EarlyMon]

Block diagram of the Qualcomm S4 -

Note that world modem. The HTC Rezound, S3 on Verizon CDMA + LTE, needed a separate MDM9600 LTE modem chip.

The S4 has that built in, again, saving power.

Full technical details on the modem can be found here -

Sprint 800 MHz LTE Set For Launch In 2014 - Sprint 4G Rollout Updates - Page 6

~~~~~~~

Next, take a gander at the block below the GPU - audio and video acceleration, and a multimedia processor below that.

Translation - for media, the GPU isn't involved like on earlier technologies, there's a dedicated core for that.

That is exactly the approach used in the TI OMAP processor that makes the Galaxy Nexus media performance so popular.

So when it comes to discussing hw graphics acceleration, there's far more to the story and the glory than the GPU.

 

[NeoteriX]

The BRITE feature sounds similar to nVidia's DIDM technology in the Tegra 3.

Tegra 3 DIDIM Saves Even More Power | Tegra 3

Perhaps it's the implementation of it on the Transformer Prime, but it's pretty terrible. First, there is no option to turn it off, it automatically enables at low brightness. Second, the screen flashing as it dims up/down depending on the content on the screen is noticeable and intrusive, especially for video.

 

[EarlyMon]

Must be implementation specific. I looked in the One X forum for people using the Tegra 3. Some reported some flickering, but it seemed app-specific (I saw it centered on the camera app, with different descriptions of the flickering problem, and others not seeing it at all on that), plus those may have been solved by this week's update.

But as for video, one of my friends has the One X (T3) and said this -

I use MX Video Player, but Mobo is pretty good too. I've never had an issue with playing any formats on them.

Updates for the Tegra One X, emphasis mine:

Builddate 14 april 2012
New HBOOT 0.94
New RADIO 1.1204.103.14
Force GPU still not working
Sense Calander widget crashing fixed
HTC Calander double dates has been fixed
EA Games app not included
Speed improvement
HTC Sense not crashing anymore
Screen glitches are gone
Playing Tegra3 optimized games feels better now, have not had any lag yet
No 3.x kernell
HTC Gallary playback goes smoother
NvCPLSvc.apk not fixed :S
ICS detection improved, dots removes in Youtube app
Beats audio improved, no more skipping
Non-Sense widget scrolling is now smooth
Live Wallpaper pausing while going to other pages is still pressent
HTC Teeter running smooth now
Still no USB OTG

I think we'll have to wait for feedback from the One S or ATT One X (S4) users to get an impression if the Transformer Prime (Tegra) issue you describe applies to the S4.

In any case, I've not seen those complaints yet for the Tegra One X.

 

[dan330]

earlymon... do you have the diagram of the tegra 3? so that we can compare the 2.. how they differ

the Audio/video HW accelerator.. is not the same thing as the camersense...right?
is the camerasense for HTC.. another processor?? or is it just a software thing?

 

[dan330]

yeah.. imagesense..

but is that a video hardware enhancement of some sort?
does it also process the images for the camera to off load some work from the main S4 cpu? so that the 2 working together.. greatly speeds up the process.

faster and better images..

no just some software enhancements.. alone.

 

[EarlyMon]

earlymon... do you have the diagram of the tegra 3? so that we can compare the 2.. how they differ

NVIDIA's Tegra 3: A Compelling Low-Power-Consumption Embedded Vision Story | www.embedded-vision.com

the Audio/video HW accelerator.. is not the same thing as the camersense...right?
is the camerasense for HTC.. another processor?? or is it just a software thing?

imageSense is what your thinking of and it is entirely seperate from the CPU, it is another chip in the phone completely. the HW accelerator section of the S4 is just part of the s4, part of what makes it so special

Yep, Image Sense is a separate chip and software.

The Tegra 3, like the S4 and TI OMAP 4, uses cores separate from GPU to handle video multimedia.

 

[EarlyMon]

yeah.. imagesense..

but is that a video hardware enhancement of some sort?
does it also process the images for the camera to off load some work from the main S4 cpu? so that the 2 working together.. greatly speeds up the process.

faster and better images..

no just some software enhancements.. alone.

The Image Sense chip makes raw video and stills, something that real digital cameras do, and then it post-processes the raw data into compressed formats after that. That is why it runs so fast and a big part of the reason that the end quality is high.

We can't access the raw image stores at all, but if someone comes up with a hack to allow it, phones with Image Sense will rule the phone camera market, hands down, I should think.

 

[EarlyMon]

By the way, a few years ago the block diagrams available to the public from some suppliers were far more rewarding.

 

[dan330]

thanks earlymon...

but that diagram of the tegra3 was not as informative as the S4.
like cache memory.... L1 and L2... groupings...

S4 just looks better designed.

 

[EarlyMon]

thanks earlymon...

but that diagram of the tegra3 was not as informative as the S4.
like cache memory.... L1 and L2... groupings...

S4 just looks better designed.

The Tegra diagram is less informative that way, I agree. The only way to get a handle on the T3 is to use the link above, download the two linked white papers by nVidia, realize that more than a bit of them are marketing statements, not white paper material, edit them down, look for actual design documents...

You see where I didn't go.

For the GNex pre-release, I went through 1300 pages of OMAP design documentation to get my own curiosity satisfied on how that processor managed its clocks.

Harder to do as they are about marketing here and very secretive.

I think that the S4 and T3 are both quite good. I prefer the S4 because it reduces parts count with the built in modem block, and because I know that HTC has excellent experience providing kernel software that works with Qualcomm S3 dual cores.

Plus - I like the asynchronous clocking of S4, ARM Cortex chips lack that.

 

[EarlyMon]

Holy smokes. Anandtech checked out the ATT HTC One X powered by the S4 - this is the power and graphics thread, let's see what they found at AnandTech - The HTC One X for AT&T Review

This particular graph doesn't tell the full story however. In practice the AT&T One X seems to last a lot longer using LTE than any LTE Android phone we've tested in the past. Nipping at the heels of the RAZR MAXX, we need to look at normalized battery life to get an idea of just how efficient the new 28nm LTE enabled SoC is:

Engadget today claimed 5 minutes under 10 hours for continous video.

And the LTEvo battery has an 11% higher mAh rating.

Color me rather impressed.

 

[Sauske]

Holy smokes. Anandtech checked out the ATT HTC One X powered by the S4 - this is the power and graphics thread, let's see what they found at AnandTech - The HTC One X for AT&T Review

Engadget today claimed 5 minutes under 10 hours for continous video.

And the LTEvo battery has an 11% higher mAh rating.

Color me rather impressed.

Wow...Hopefully Sprint maximizing the LTEvo with the larger battery! I just surpassed my OG EVO high! LTEvo I didn't think I could reach new heights! :adore:

 

[NeoteriX]

Anandtech certainly did not hold back its praise for the One X. Quite impressive! (Though in perspective, it's taken about two years since the release of the iPhone 4 for any Android manufacturer to reach a position that equals or surpasses the iPhone 4 on all fronts.)

The anticipation for the LTEvo is killing me!

 

[Wiley_11]

OMG...With the battery and LTE improvements I may have to part with $1200 in the near future!! (need 2 of these bad boys ) arty:

 

[dan330]

it is interesting to see how well the 1800mah batter is keeping up with the Razor Maxx's 3300mah battery..

and the LTevo will be 2000mah .. it would be equivalent to the 3300mah ???

 

[EarlyMon]

it is interesting to see how well the 1800mah batter is keeping up with the Razor Maxx's 3300mah battery..

and the LTevo will be 2000mah .. it would be equivalent to the 3300mah ???

If all things are equal in ours, yes, equivalent to 3000 to 3300 mAh on another - except for call time - the Maxx is just killing it there.

 

[PyroSporker]

If all things are equal in ours, yes, equivalent to 3000 to 3300 mAh on another - except for call time - the Maxx is just killing it there.

I am quite impressed with the S4 numbers so far. It is really awesome how efficient it is at some tasks.
I think Moto should re-do this test with the Evo 4G LTE on board.

DROID RAZR MAXX by Motorola: GPS Navigation Test - YouTube

GPS is a TRUE power hog, I'd be interested in seeing how the Evo 4G LTE would hold up during a real world GPS test like this. I don't expect it to hold up to the Razr Maxx that well, I'm just curious.

 

[NeoteriX]

it is interesting to see how well the 1800mah batter is keeping up with the Razor Maxx's 3300mah battery..

and the LTevo will be 2000mah .. it would be equivalent to the 3300mah ???

It's not quite right to think about a 2000mah battery as being equivalent to the 3300mah, but that the S4 (and the other components) chosen are just great at sipping less juice from the battery -- because as EarlyMon points out, where the components aren't great at sipping like using the phone and using 3G, the consequences of the smaller battery are still evident.

A Razr Maxx with an S4 would have stupidly amazing battery life... you might even be able to hit an entire work week without charging. Crazy stuff.

GPS is a TRUE power hog, I'd be interested in seeing how the Evo 4G LTE would hold up during a real world GPS test like this. I don't expect it to hold up to the Razr Maxx that well, I'm just curious.

Right. I honestly don't think the improvements are there for GPS, though I could be mistaken. There are definitely savings in terms of processing power, but for antennas... I don't think so, and as a result, it will come down to how big the battery is, which the Maxx has beat.

 

[EarlyMon]

Well, I think we need to remember a few things about GPS/GLONASS - it's processor intensive and needs a radio transceiver, just like anything else.

The GPS firmware is baked in to the S4, so it has an advantage there. That leaves the radio itself - if the chip for that surpasses earlier offerings with a similar process manufacturing reduction, then the LTEvo is going to come out ahead.

Only a test will tell, but I think I'll keep an open mind on the ongoing need for GPS to be a power hog.

BTW - what constitutes a fair GPS test? I think that driving around isn't the answer. The math gets done no matter what, and we can't standardize to that. I think we need to see a few measures. One, a stationary unit with full sky view on a clear day, running GPS Status until dead. Two, a test rig that oscillates sky view with full obstruction so that we can see the power drain effects of tower assist and signal re-acquisition.

That would tend to show ideal and lower-end nominal use cases and would be fair, imo.

When I get my hands on an LTEvo, I can easily do the 1st test here in the desert using my Evo and 3vo as comparisons. I'll have to think of a way to automate the second test.

~~~~~~~~

As for equivalent to a 3000~3300 mAh battery - I think that if we were to think in terms of earlier silicon tech, then the word "analogous" might be appropriate - or equivalent if thought of in context.

Getting heads around power demand vs supply isn't always the easiest thing for everyone to get into.

So, within context of this conversation, I'll stand by my answer.

Agreed though - an actual 3300 mAh battery in this phone... well, if wishes were horses, right?

 

[EarlyMon]

Note - I saw a pretty good comment by NeoteriX at the Anandtech review, that we can't always count on CDMA efficiency to match GSM. That's absolutely true and I forgot about that.

Also, on the radio technology used in the HTC Rezound, when using LTE the CDMA radio is also always on.

So, we still have stuff to verify for the LTEvo, but I don't think that I'm going to withdraw my excitement just yet.

 

[Holeshot88]

Now that we got them post your benchmark scores for antutu, quadrant, speedtest etc. I would like to see the average scores of our new devices. Here are mine on a dead battery.
I had to crop the photos, and I'm posting this on my ltevo so I hope this works.

 

[mikehamadneh]

I think the speed test is irelivent since you are on wifi lol

i dont have mine yet but is the 3g on the ltevo faster then other phones, i have the OG evo my wife has the 4s and my 3g is alot faster then hers even tho we can be in the same spot

 

[3volut1on]

First time benchamrking anything other than a PC, so I thought I'd post my results

 

[Baltimoretint]

I tried the gl benchmark and I noticed that the results we ok the 4s iphone actually scored better does anyone here know why that would be , i thought our phones and processers and screen res was at the top of the game for now? is there a tecnical answer for that and on there site the gsIII scored very well .